How to Raise an Ox
ric...@rwilliams.us
of scrutinizing words, reverse the activity of the mind which
seeks externally, and illuminate your own true nature" (page 96).
'How to Raise an Ox'
Zen Practice as Taught in Zen Master Dogen's Shobogenzo
by Francis D Cook, Ph.D.
Forward by Taizan Maezumi Roshi
Wisdom Publications, 2002
Lee Rudolph
>"... you must suspend your attempts to understand by means
>of scrutinizing words, reverse the activity of the mind which
>seeks externally, and illuminate your own true nature" (page 96).
This post (and your previous post, and, I'm going to go out on a limb
to bet, your next several today) are full of "should"s and "must"s.
There! I've subjected your (quoted) words to a scrutiny, and not
even *attempted* to understand anything. May I have my Gold
Englightenment Star now?
Lee Rudolph
ric...@rwilliams.us
> > of scrutinizing words, reverse the activity of the mind which
> > seeks externally, and illuminate your own true nature" (page 96).
Lee Rudolph wrote:
> This post (and your previous post, and, I'm going to go out on a limb
> to bet, your next several today) are full of "should"s and "must"s.
>
> There! I've subjected your (quoted) words to a scrutiny, and not
> even *attempted* to understand anything.
>
post your comments.
Pete
Whoa! He raised your "shoulds" and "musts" with a "supposed to."
Pete (go all in!)
DT
He's gotta!
DT
ric...@rwilliams.us
> This post (and your previous post, and, I'm going to go
> out on a limb to bet, your next several today) are full of
> "should"s and "must"s.
>
Lee Rudolph
^@%>---*=#
<ric...@rwilliams.us> wrote in message
news:5bf736b3-ede1-464d...@z7g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
should and must addictions followed
disproportionately by gambling addictions
usually spawn a nasty vagina envy addiction.
but then again, there could actually be that fabled
light at the end of the tunnel, eh ?
zenworm
> <rich...@rwilliams.us> wrote in message
liquor?
ZN
Don Shepherd
I didn't even kissor!
Don
^@%>---*=#
"zenworm" <zens...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8aa4de6-adda-4283...@r3g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>liquor?
maybe. depends on the aroma.
zenworm
> "zenworm" <zensp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
sushi?
ZN
^@%>---*=#
sushi?
ZN
===================
if she's rich
daletx
Everybody sing: "If you knew sushi, like I know sushi..."
DT
(OK, everybody but Ned.)
^@%>---*=#
"daletx" <dal...@gnusguy.com> wrote in message
news:gu4om...@news5.newsguy.com...
oh sushi q, oh sushi q
oh sushi q baby i love you
sushi q
Awaken21
Dogen is always great to come back to. Reminders are always
appreciated.
DT
Hey, I ain't givin' that one any Creedence...
DT
^@%>---*=#
"DT" <na...@not.com> wrote in message news:gu9av...@news5.newsguy.com...
wake up little sushi wake up
dum de dum de dum dum
wake up little sushi wake up
dum de dum de dum dum
DT
Oh, Brother! Does this go on forEver?
DT
^@%>---*=#
"DT" <na...@not.com> wrote in message news:gu9cn...@news5.newsguy.com...
if you knew sushi like i knew
sushi oh oh oh what a gal
ric...@rwilliams.us
> if you knew sushi like i knew
> sushi oh oh oh what a gal
>
ric...@rwilliams.us
> Dogen is always great to come back to. Reminders
> are always appreciated.
>
Fifty-four years lighting up the sky.
A quivering leap smashes a billion worlds.
Hah!
Entire body looks for nothing.
Living, I plunge into Yellow Springs.
'Dogen Kigen--Mystical Realist'
by Hee-Jin Kim
Wisdom Publications, 2004
ric...@rwilliams.us
of scrutinizing words, reverse the activity of the mind which
seeks externally, and illuminate your own true nature" (page 96).
'How to Raise an Ox'
Zen Practice as Taught in Zen Master Dogen's Shobogenzo
by Francis D Cook, Ph.D.
Forward by Taizan Maezumi Roshi
Wisdom Publications, 2002
> Dogen Kigen:
Lee Rudolph
>Dogen Kigen:
>
> Fifty-four years lighting up the sky.
> A quivering leap smashes a billion worlds.
> Hah!
> Entire body looks for nothing.
> Living, I plunge into Yellow Springs.
How the Yellow Springs
got that way: concession staff
piss in Old Faithful.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30765586/
Lee Rudolph
Allen Barker
Great quote posted by richard from Cook's book on Dogen:
oxtail
Why don't you?
--
oxtail
Allen Barker
So contentious there, oxtail.
oxtail
Just trying to be aware of what I'm doing;
preferably while being imbued with compassion.
Were you trying to help us stop seeking externally?
--
oxtail
Allen Barker
Is that what you understand from scrutinizing the words? ;-)
oxtail
Do you like flowers?
--
oxtail
Allen Barker
Some are especially fragrant...
dick blisters
ric...@rwilliams.us
> poke'm in the arse with a sharp sick
>
Too avid seeking for enlightenment embodies a
very subtle greed which must be rooted out by
more subtle efforts. But you must not pursue the
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more
subtle way. Dick needs to realize that he is not
going to get any more enlightenment than he is
going to get. And while metaphysical pursuits
may be interesting to a certain degree, not one
single concept is going to help him cross over
to the other side.
^@%>---*=#
<ric...@rwilliams.us> wrote in message
news:e2f9509b-3f2e-4361...@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> dick blisters wrote:
>> poke'm in the arse with a sharp sick
>>
> No, Dick, that would make them stink like Zen.
>
> Too avid seeking for enlightenment embodies a
> very subtle greed which must be rooted out by
> more subtle efforts.
the avid seeking undone by the less
than avid seeking ?
> But you must not pursue the
> uprooting greedily,
no pain no gain
>but by means of a still more
> subtle way.
backwards through yesterdays
apriori preterites ?
>Dick needs to realize that he is not
> going to get any more enlightenment than he is
> going to get.
heavy. so he's gotten as much as
he's got ? if he got some what stops
him from getting more ? the enlightenment
police ?
> And while metaphysical pursuits
> may be interesting to a certain degree,
money, sex, power. the big three.
not one
> single concept is going to help him cross over
> to the other side.
if you are as enlightened as you're ever going to get
then there is no other side to break on through to.
zenworm
"do
or do not
there is no try"
- Yoda
ZN
halfawake
>poke'm in the arse with a sharp sick
>
>
>
>
that's not the way to raise an ox;
that's the way to raise a blister.
robert
^@%>---*=#
"halfawake" <epste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gvlbfi$5u5$3...@news.eternal-september.org...
blister has it made. he never shows
up until all of the work is done.
ric...@rwilliams.us
> > very subtle greed which must be rooted out by
> > more subtle efforts.
> >
> if you are as enlightened as you're ever going to get
> then there is no other side to break on through to.
>
the physical, transcendental. Shakya said to take
the large boat to the other side. When you get to
the other side, you'll find that there is no other side.
So, you take a boat to get to the other side. Once
you get there you don't need to walk around with the
boat on your head.
Keynes
>> > Too avid seeking for enlightenment embodies a
>> > very subtle greed which must be rooted out by
>> > more subtle efforts.
>> >
>^@%>---*=#" wrote:
>> if you are as enlightened as you're ever going to get
>> then there is no other side to break on through to.
>>
>Its just a metaphor - the other side means beyond
>the physical, transcendental. Shakya said to take
>the large boat to the other side. When you get to
>the other side, you'll find that there is no other side.
>So, you take a boat to get to the other side. Once
>you get there you don't need to walk around with the
>boat on your head.
>
The vehicle to cross the stream to the other shore
is a make-shift affair of grass and twigs propelled
by kicking hands and feet. Half truths and directions
used as skillful means, and no comprehensive real
truths worth carrying afterwards.
ric...@rwilliams.us
> >> if you are as enlightened as you're ever going to get
> >> then there is no other side to break on through to.
>
> > Its just a metaphor - the other side means beyond
> > the physical, transcendental. Shakya said to take
> > the large boat to the other side. When you get to
> > the other side, you'll find that there is no other side.
> > So, you take a boat to get to the other side. Once
> > you get there you don't need to walk around with the
> > boat on your head.
> >
> The vehicle to cross the stream to the other shore
> is a make-shift affair of grass and twigs propelled
> by kicking hands and feet. Half truths and directions
> used as skillful means, and no comprehensive real
> truths worth carrying afterwards.
>
A quivering leap smashes a billion worlds.
Hah!
Entire body looks for nothing.
Living, I plunge into Yellow Springs.
^@%>---*=#*^
<ric...@rwilliams.us> wrote in message
news:6e4e5815-6ed9-46dd...@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>> > Too avid seeking for enlightenment embodies a
>> > very subtle greed which must be rooted out by
>> > more subtle efforts.
>> >
> ^@%>---*=#" wrote:
>> if you are as enlightened as you're ever going to get
>> then there is no other side to break on through to.
>>
> Its just a metaphor - the other side means beyond
> the physical, transcendental. Shakya said to take
> the large boat to the other side. When you get to
> the other side, you'll find that there is no other side.
> So, you take a boat to get to the other side. Once
> you get there you don't need to walk around with the
> boat on your head.
from that answer i'd say you can't
get the boat off of your head anyway.
DT
> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:01:37 -0700 (PDT), ric...@rwilliams.us wrote:
>
>>>> Too avid seeking for enlightenment embodies a
>>>> very subtle greed which must be rooted out by
>>>> more subtle efforts.
>>>>
>> ^@%>---*=#" wrote:
>>> if you are as enlightened as you're ever going to get
>>> then there is no other side to break on through to.
>>>
>> Its just a metaphor - the other side means beyond
>> the physical, transcendental. Shakya said to take
>> the large boat to the other side. When you get to
>> the other side, you'll find that there is no other side.
>> So, you take a boat to get to the other side. Once
>> you get there you don't need to walk around with the
>> boat on your head.
>>
>
> The vehicle to cross the stream to the other shore
> is a make-shift affair of grass and twigs propelled
> by kicking hands and feet. Half truths and directions
> used as skillful means, and no comprehensive real
> truths worth carrying afterwards.
Can a take along an inflatable PFD, just in case?
DT
dick blisters
>>>> if you are as enlightened as you're ever going to get
>>>> then there is no other side to break on through to.
>>>>
>>> Its just a metaphor - the other side means beyond
>>> the physical, transcendental. Shakya said to take
>>> the large boat to the other side. When you get to
>>> the other side, you'll find that there is no other side.
>>> So, you take a boat to get to the other side. Once
>>> you get there you don't need to walk around with the
>>> boat on your head.
>>>
>>
>> The vehicle to cross the stream to the other shore
>> is a make-shift affair of grass and twigs propelled
>> by kicking hands and feet. Half truths and directions
>> used as skillful means, and no comprehensive real
>> truths worth carrying afterwards.
>
> Can a take along an inflatable PFD, just in case?
>
> DT
Wally Chapman
Be sure to wear a shower cap. And maybe water wings. And take a copy
of Huxley's "Doors of Perception", as well as the Doors first album, and
download "Horse Latitudes" onto your iPod, and maybe "Night Swimming" by
R.E.M., because it's lonely in nowhere, when you got no place to be,
with eternity smiling like a placid allegory on the banks of the Nile,
or Styx, just one more river to cross, Lord, gotta get to the other
side, although this *is* the other side, a Moebius strip folded through
a wormhole tucked into the Orgone box, deep blue like a baby's veins and
containing nothing, nothing, nothing at all which is what the world is
made of, that and plastic, which doesn't exist except in the mind of the
beholder, all for naught and vanity, a long, strange trip it's been
through shark-infested waters, fins to the left of me, fins to the right
and the Black Pearl dives and comes up in the middle of a water spout,
guns blazing, and there you are with your water wings and Tagatha, true
to the creed, which is - what is it anyway?
Wally
dick blisters
"Wally Chapman" <shel...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:HPudnT4b3_dx67XX...@bright.net...
DT
Amen, brother! Take me to the river. Drop me in the water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Frf-VNpNU
DT
halfawake
an amorphous blue cloud
in an infinity of night
robert
=======================
willytex
waking, dreaming, dreamless sleep, and nondual.
Apparently Wilber ascribes to the 'two truths doctrine' of
Nagarjuna. For Wilber no metaphysical doctrine or apparent
reality is true in an absolute sense: only formless awareness,
"the simple feeling of being," exists absolutely.
"And tell me: is that story, sung by mystics and sages the
world over, any crazier than the scientific materialism story,
which is that the entire sequence is a tale told by an idiot,
full of sound and fury, signifying absolutely nothing? Listen
very carefully: just which of those two stories actually sounds
totally insane?"
Work cited:
'A Brief History of Everything'
By Ken Wilber
Shambhala, 2007
Page 42-3
^@%>---*=#**
"willytex" <ric...@rwilliams.us> wrote in message
news:9f9aec35-34bf-4067...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
wilbur is a dink
Keynes
>Allen Barker wrote:
>> Great quote posted by richard from Cook's book on Dogen:
>>
>> you must suspend your attempts to understand by means
>> of scrutinizing words, reverse the activity of the mind
>> which seeks externally
>>
>According to Wilber, the states of consciousness include:
>waking, dreaming, dreamless sleep, and nondual.
>
>Apparently Wilber ascribes to the 'two truths doctrine' of
>Nagarjuna. For Wilber no metaphysical doctrine or apparent
>reality is true in an absolute sense: only formless awareness,
>"the simple feeling of being," exists absolutely.
>
I think the 'feeling of being' is what needs to be overcome.
Neither 'I am' nor 'I am not'. No 'is or is not' either.
Although there may be thoughts and sensation in the higher
states, there is no claiming of them, no 'here nor there'. From
ordinary perspective it may be called a 'feeling of being' when
one has to give a logical account of it, but there is no notice
of being or non-being in it. It oughtn't to come up. I think any
'feeling of being' is a dualistic logical construct and the
ultimate barrier.
>"And tell me: is that story, sung by mystics and sages the
>world over, any crazier than the scientific materialism story,
>which is that the entire sequence is a tale told by an idiot,
>full of sound and fury, signifying absolutely nothing? Listen
>very carefully: just which of those two stories actually sounds
>totally insane?"
>
As we may understand it, life in delusion IS a tale told
by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing.
The diamond sutra says as much.
Delving seriously into material science for wisdom, (which
is certainly the wrong place to look), one must come to the
conclusion that humans are meat machines locked into pointless
deterministic destiny.
The future claims possibility, but the past is one inevitable stream.
Time is time, and the past once was the future. This reductionism
totally denies human nature. It would be a living death, if anyone
could possibly believe it all the time, rather than on lonely dark
nights or in the glare of outspoken controversy.
Matter has never really mattered to humans. Their life
and concerns are of a different and unrelated order.
Neither prosperity nor poverty bring consistent results.
Subjectivity over rules the commonly called 'objective'
world. It can't be really real to us. No use to pretend that
it is definitive 'reality'.
Lee Rudolph
>I think the 'feeling of being' is what needs to be overcome.
"Overcome" is adversarial (and ipso facto dualistic) language. How
about, "acknowledged to be a feeling", like other feelings (and like
other situations that are often not acknowledged as feelings)?
Lee Rudolph (not that I'm saying dualism is wrong. Or right.)
daletx
Keynes
wrote:
Well it's a known fact that I never tell the truth.
Neither can anybody else.
Wilson
Wilber is a convenient club that people who like to talk about religion
on Usenet use to beat each other over the head.
--
Wilson
brian mitchell
<lrud...@panix.com> wrote:
>Keynes <Key...@earthlinkspam.net> writes:
>
>>I think the 'feeling of being' is what needs to be overcome.
>
>"Overcome" is adversarial (and ipso facto dualistic) language. How
>about, "acknowledged to be a feeling", like other feelings (and like
>other situations that are often not acknowledged as feelings)?
Doesn't this put all feelings and other situations on a completely
equal footing and so disallow any structural order to their
occurrence? It could be, though, that some states and feelings form a
prerequisite substrate without which others would not or could not
occur; they have greater functional significance. This seems to be
Wilbur's position. For him, the 'feeling of being' is the base on
which all else rests and where all searching can stop. Keynes also
gives that feeling/state a position of significance, though of an
opposite kind. Is there a hierarchy of significance separating the
feeling of being and, say, irritation at slow-moving traffic, or are
they both just flickers across the screen?
john kahila
> >"willytex" <ric...@rwilliams.us> wrote...
And wilbur isn't a dink. He's a pig.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte%27s_Web
jtk
Allen Barker
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:56:24 -0700 (PDT), willytex <ric...@rwilliams.us> wrote:
>
>> Allen Barker wrote:
>>> Great quote posted by richard from Cook's book on Dogen:
>>>
>>> you must suspend your attempts to understand by means
>>> of scrutinizing words, reverse the activity of the mind
>>> which seeks externally
>>>
>> According to Wilber, the states of consciousness include:
>> waking, dreaming, dreamless sleep, and nondual.
>>
>> Apparently Wilber ascribes to the 'two truths doctrine' of
>> Nagarjuna. For Wilber no metaphysical doctrine or apparent
>> reality is true in an absolute sense: only formless awareness,
>> "the simple feeling of being," exists absolutely.
>>
>
> I think the 'feeling of being' is what needs to be overcome.
What about the 'feeling of needing to overcome something'? ;-)
Allen Barker
You have a great sense of sarcasm. ;-)
Allen Barker
> Allen Barker wrote:
>> Great quote posted by richard from Cook's book on Dogen:
>>
>> you must suspend your attempts to understand by means
>> of scrutinizing words, reverse the activity of the mind
>> which seeks externally
>>
> According to Wilber, the states of consciousness include:
> waking, dreaming, dreamless sleep, and nondual.
>
> Apparently Wilber ascribes to the 'two truths doctrine' of
> Nagarjuna. For Wilber no metaphysical doctrine or apparent
> reality is true in an absolute sense: only formless awareness,
> "the simple feeling of being," exists absolutely.
If that *is* the case, he's clearly no Nagarjuna...
To say that formless awareness (or anything else) exists
absolutely is to fall right back into the world of form.
Is that truth 1 or truth 2? ;-)
Nice to know intellectually and in theory, but actually
realizing it experientially and doing it in practice is
another matter altogether.
zenworm
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
"To say that formless awareness (or anything else) exists
absolutely is to fall right back into the world of form.
Is that truth 1 or truth 2? ;-)"
Awareness is absolute
(not two)(not finite)(not temporal)
what has that got to do with
'the world of form'? (the appearences of form)
ZN
Allen Barker
You lost your Moment.
zenworm
>
> - Show quoted text -
*i* and *my* Moment?
compared to *you* and *your* Moment?
'you'? 'your'?
why project ownership?
lost?
why project objectification?
how many 'moments' do you see?
'owned' by how many 'people'?
so many 'things'
Moment is
ZN
Allen Barker
I didn't imply. You inferred, based apparently on
an analysis of the surface-grammar of my sentence.
Moment, indeed...
brian mitchell
<allendotel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>You have a great sense of sarcasm. ;-)
Not intentionally, and I hope the poster I replied to didn't take it
that way. It's a question that genuinely interests me. There was a
follow up post which didn't make it to APZ because I was replying to
someone who'd trimmed the groups. I'll risk the faux pas of repeating
the relevant part:
========
. . . I suggest that no mind can operate without a fundamental belief
in the concept of truth (or reality, if you prefer): that there are
things which are true and real, and things which aren't. No matter for
the moment which things are in which category. Without that basic
concept, the thousands of necessary discriminations we make couldn't
be made. So Truth is an Ur-concept upon which much --maybe even all--
of the functioning of the mind/brain depends. That suggests structural
order and hierarchies of significance to me.
========
Keynes
wrote:
What things are unreal?
Philosophers have debated the issue for millennia.
Science says that which can't be observed, demonstrated,
measured, and duplicated/reproduced must be unreal.
This leaves out a great deal of human experience, but
it's good enough for making toasters and cell phones.
Buddhism asserts that as things are impermanent they
have no essential own-being, all things arising and passing
away due to the web of causation. The prajnaparamita
sutras go farther, denying the being of all things, and
with that denying causation. For if there are no objects
to interact, how can there be any causation or continuity?
The philosophic consensus (more or less) is that if a
thing were real, it would be real in all times and places.
It's also one of the theological properties of the
perfection of God.
My opinion can be expressed in a joke.
The senator's wife catches him naked in bed with his intern.
The senator sits up and says,"Who are you going to believe?
Me? Or your lying eyes?"
Awaken21
> Science says that which can't be observed, demonstrated,
> measured, and duplicated/reproduced must be unreal.
Not really. science says that which can't be observed, demonstrated,
measured, and duplicated/reproduced cannot be assumed to be real. It's
Scientists that act as though it must be unreal...and not all them,
but many.
halfawake
when you make a statement about something, you give it a boundary, a
definition, you turn it into a conceptual object. To say that
"awareness is absolute" is to destroy awareness.
Robert
- - - - - - - - -
halfawake
that's right, except you shouldn't have capitalized "Moment." The
moment doesn't exist.
halfawake
If moment "is," moment sucks.
robert
- - - - - - - - -
halfawake
Are you challenging him to a dualism?
Robert
- - - - - - - - - -
^@%>---*=#**
"halfawake" <epste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:h50r4f$682$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
polarity of opposite's concepts
at fifty paces
zenworm
>
> - Show quoted text -
is Totality?
ZN
zenworm
>
> - Show quoted text -
Since ‘Awareness” and “absolute”
cannot be defined in terms of “Totality”
save perhaps to say “isness”
this definitive ambiguity preserves the Mystery
and acknowledged unspeakability of the Truth as IS
yet with the seeming perverse glee of moths to flame
words that ultimately are meaningless
flutter forth to be consumed in the Moment
ZN
halfawake
that's a big word.
halfawake
> Since �Awareness� and �absolute�
>
> cannot be defined in terms of �Totality�
>
> save perhaps to say �isness�
>
> this definitive ambiguity preserves the Mystery
>
> and acknowledged unspeakability of the Truth as IS
>
> yet with the seeming perverse glee of moths to flame
>
> words that ultimately are meaningless
>
> flutter forth to be consumed in the Moment
>
>
> ZN
the last two lines are nice
generally speaking, though, the above formulation sounds vague and
conceptual, at least to me
robert
zenworm
too big for a you
ZN
zenworm
>
> > cannot be defined in terms of “Totality”
>
> > save perhaps to say “isness”
>
>
> > and acknowledged unspeakability of the Truth as IS
>
> > yet with the seeming perverse glee of moths to flame
>
> > words that ultimately are meaningless
>
> > flutter forth to be consumed in the Moment
>
> > ZN
>
> the last two lines are nice
>
> generally speaking, though, the above formulation sounds vague and
> conceptual, at least to me
>
> robert
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
you?
ZN
halfawake
>>>Since �Awareness� and �absolute�
>>
>>>cannot be defined in terms of �Totality�
>>
>>>save perhaps to say �isness�
>>
>>>this definitive ambiguity preserves the Mystery
>>
>>>and acknowledged unspeakability of the Truth as IS
>>
>>>yet with the seeming perverse glee of moths to flame
>>
>>>words that ultimately are meaningless
>>
>>>flutter forth to be consumed in the Moment
>>
>>>ZN
>>
>>the last two lines are nice
>>
>>generally speaking, though, the above formulation sounds vague and
>>conceptual, at least to me
>>
>>robert
>>
>>- - - - - - - - - -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
>
> you?
>
> ZN
yeah, whatever.
don't get all linguistic on me please.
zenworm
>
> >>>cannot be defined in terms of “Totality”
>
> >>>save perhaps to say “isness”
>
>
> >>>and acknowledged unspeakability of the Truth as IS
>
> >>>yet with the seeming perverse glee of moths to flame
>
> >>>words that ultimately are meaningless
>
> >>>flutter forth to be consumed in the Moment
>
> >>>ZN
>
> >>the last two lines are nice
>
> >>generally speaking, though, the above formulation sounds vague and
> >>conceptual, at least to me
>
> >>robert
>
> >>- - - - - - - - - -- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>- Show quoted text -
>
> > you?
>
> > ZN
>
> yeah, whatever.
> don't get all linguistic on me please.
>
> Robert
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
are you afraid?
ZN
zenworm
>
> >>>cannot be defined in terms of “Totality”
>
> >>>save perhaps to say “isness”
>
>
> >>>and acknowledged unspeakability of the Truth as IS
>
> >>>yet with the seeming perverse glee of moths to flame
>
> >>>words that ultimately are meaningless
>
> >>>flutter forth to be consumed in the Moment
>
> >>>ZN
>
> >>the last two lines are nice
>
> >>generally speaking, though, the above formulation sounds vague and
> >>conceptual, at least to me
>
> >>robert
>
> >>- - - - - - - - - -- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>- Show quoted text -
>
> > you?
>
> > ZN
>
> yeah, whatever.
> don't get all linguistic on me please.
>
> Robert
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
pay no attention
to the man behind the curtain
to the word behind the concept
what is context?
ZN
halfawake
>>>>>Since �Awareness� and �absolute�
>>
>>>>>cannot be defined in terms of �Totality�
>>
>>>>>save perhaps to say �isness�
>>
>>>>>this definitive ambiguity preserves the Mystery
>>
>>>>>and acknowledged unspeakability of the Truth as IS
>>
>>>>>yet with the seeming perverse glee of moths to flame
>>
>>>>>words that ultimately are meaningless
>>
>>>>>flutter forth to be consumed in the Moment
>>
>>>>>ZN
>>
>>>>the last two lines are nice
>>
>>>>generally speaking, though, the above formulation sounds vague and
>>>>conceptual, at least to me
>>
>>>>robert
>>
>>>>- - - - - - - - - -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>
>>>you?
>>
>>>ZN
>>
>>yeah, whatever.
>>don't get all linguistic on me please.
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>- - - - - - - -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
>
> are you afraid?
>
> ZN
not of that, but yes, I'm afraid of many things. What do you have in mind?
Robert
= = = = = = =
halfawake
>>>>>Since �Awareness� and �absolute�
>>
>>>>>cannot be defined in terms of �Totality�
>>
>>>>>save perhaps to say �isness�
>>
>>>>>this definitive ambiguity preserves the Mystery
>>
>>>>>and acknowledged unspeakability of the Truth as IS
>>
>>>>>yet with the seeming perverse glee of moths to flame
>>
>>>>>words that ultimately are meaningless
>>
>>>>>flutter forth to be consumed in the Moment
>>
>>>>>ZN
>>
>>>>the last two lines are nice
>>
>>>>generally speaking, though, the above formulation sounds vague and
>>>>conceptual, at least to me
>>
>>>>robert
>>
>>>>- - - - - - - - - -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>
>>>you?
>>
>>>ZN
>>
>>yeah, whatever.
>>don't get all linguistic on me please.
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>- - - - - - - -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
>
>
> pay no attention
>
> to the man behind the curtain
you mean that empty space?
>
> to the word behind the concept
you mean that silent space?
>
>
> what is context?
>
> ZN
what is context? what do you think?
robert
^@%>---*=#**
mafia on a cell?
halfawake
ah, that is good.
and Paradise is what you play craps with,
Paradox is what you buy to start a mallard farm,
and Paralinguistics is an athletic activity you do with your girlfriend.
Best,
Robert
= = = = = = = = = = =
zenworm
>
> >>>>>cannot be defined in terms of “Totality”
>
> >>>>>save perhaps to say “isness”
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
what has thinking got to do with context?
ZN
zenworm
>
> >>>>>cannot be defined in terms of “Totality”
>
> >>>>>save perhaps to say “isness”
>
>
> >>>>>and acknowledged unspeakability of the Truth as IS
>
> >>>>>yet with the seeming perverse glee of moths to flame
>
> >>>>>words that ultimately are meaningless
>
> >>>>>flutter forth to be consumed in the Moment
>
> >>>>>ZN
>
> >>>>the last two lines are nice
>
> >>>>generally speaking, though, the above formulation sounds vague and
> >>>>conceptual, at least to me
>
> >>>>robert
>
> >>>>- - - - - - - - - -- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>>- Show quoted text -
>
> >>>you?
>
> >>>ZN
>
> >>yeah, whatever.
> >>don't get all linguistic on me please.
>
> >>Robert
>
> >>- - - - - - - -- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>- Show quoted text -
>
> > are you afraid?
>
> > ZN
>
> not of that, but yes, I'm afraid of many things. What do you have in mind?
>
> Robert
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
the unknown
ZN
^@%>---*=#**
s'pose we'll never find a paranormals
Wally Chapman
Paraphernalia is an is a couple of chutes.
Wally
Keynes
>>>>>>>>>> Since ‘Awareness” and “absolute”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> cannot be defined in terms of “Totality”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> save perhaps to say “isness”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
Paraphernalia?
I've never even seen one phernalia.
(Has it anything to do with kilts?)
^@%>---*=#**
"Wally Chapman" <shel...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:P66dnd-azJwy2OrX...@bright.net...
are two cows a parabrahma ?
mu mu.
halfawake
>>>>>>>Since �Awareness� and �absolute�
>>
>>>>>>>cannot be defined in terms of �Totality�
>>
>>>>>>>save perhaps to say �isness�
>>
what does context have to do with anything?
context is a construct.
why not talk about the way things are instead.
Robert
= = = = = = = =
halfawake
>>>>>>>Since �Awareness� and �absolute�
>>
>>>>>>>cannot be defined in terms of �Totality�
>>
>>>>>>>save perhaps to say �isness�
>>
"you" is not unknown, it's my best friend.
'hi,' "you."
what are you frightened of?
halfawake
not around here bub
robert
= = = = = = = = =
zenworm
>
> >>>>>>>cannot be defined in terms of “Totality”
>
> >>>>>>>save perhaps to say “isness”
>
with no 'you'
there is no fear
ZN
zenworm
>
> >>>>>>>cannot be defined in terms of “Totality”
>
> >>>>>>>save perhaps to say “isness”
>
when context is Awareness
what construct?
ZN
>
> why not talk about the way things are instead.
without verbal/language/labels what are 'things'
ZN
>
> Robert
>
> = = = = = = = =- Hide quoted text -
halfawake
>>>>>>>>>Since �Awareness� and �absolute�
>>
>>>>>>>>>cannot be defined in terms of �Totality�
>>
>>>>>>>>>save perhaps to say �isness�
>>
so u r 99.9% pure?
robert
halfawake
>>>>>>>>>Since �Awareness� and �absolute�
>>
>>>>>>>>>cannot be defined in terms of �Totality�
>>
>>>>>>>>>save perhaps to say �isness�
>>
if Awareness is a context it is no longer awareness
Awaken21
>
> why not talk about the way things are instead.
>
Because I'd rather be torn to shreds by a pack of hungry wolves?
I remember being on a cruise many years ago watching a particularly
stunning sunset with small group of fellow cruisers. One young lady
kept repeating "Oh my god it's soooo beautiful, soooo...Orange!" I
made it for maybe 5 minutes until I realized I was releasing an urge
to throw her overboard. An urge which kept arising in perfect unison
with the sound of her voice. Shortly afterward II found myself a less
social spot that I could enjoy the sunset from.
Lee Rudolph
>I remember being on a cruise many years ago watching a particularly
>stunning sunset with small group of fellow cruisers. One young lady
>kept repeating "Oh my god it's soooo beautiful, soooo...Orange!" I
>made it for maybe 5 minutes until I realized I was releasing an urge
>to throw her overboard. An urge which kept arising in perfect unison
>with the sound of her voice. Shortly afterward II found myself a less
>social spot that I could enjoy the sunset from.
But was II able to convince I to move to that spot?
Lee Rudolph (and since when is your given name "Mark", anyhow?)
daletx
I hear ya. I spent four days in a canoe on the Rio Grande with a woman
who would turn around every 15 minutes and yell,
"I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW PEACEFUL AND QUIET IT IS OUT HERE!!!"
DT