David Kaplan denounces Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and the Transcendental Meditation movement
ApologeticsIndex.org
America, has denounced Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and the Transcendental
Meditation movement:
:===Begin Quote===
Future of Heavenly Mountain disputed
Watauga Democrat (USA), May 19, 2004
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7338-.html
The man who, along with his twin brother, owns most of the land at
Heavenly Mountain Resort, has disavowed the spiritual movement that
helped establish the retreat.
David Kaplan, who owns the largest privately-owned land tract in
Watauga County, publicly repudiated the Transcendental Meditation (TM)
movement and its founder, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, in a letter released
Tuesday to Heavenly Mountain residents and the public.
In the letter, Kaplan said he and his brother, Earl, investigated
Maharishi and the TM movement closely, and subsequently could “no
longer support or be associated with Maharishi, his ideas, his
knowledge or any of his organizations in any way whatsoever.”
“I am not involved in the TM movement or in any of Maharishi
organizations in any way and have nothing to do with his teaching,” he
repeated in the letter.
Heavenly Mountain, located east of Boone overlooking the Triplett
community, has been synonymous with Maharishi’s technique of
meditation since its establishment in 1996.
[...]
According to its Web site, the center “was established to bring
fulfillment to the spiritual and material aspirations of all Americans
through Maharishi Vedic Science and Technology” and is said to be a
study of consciousness, based on classical Indian Vedic literature.
[...]
After reading Kaplan’s letter, a group of Heavenly Mountain homeowners
issued an e-mail statement emphasizing their continued support and
practice of the technique.
[...]
Last fall, dozens of Heavenly Mountain residents sued David Kaplan,
claiming the developer breached his fiduciary duty and required
potential land buyers to donate to the TM movement “as a condition to
building a home in Heavenly Mountain.”
The suit accuses Kaplan of “endangering the tax status of the center
and thereby acting contrary to its well-being by causing it to engage
in private benefit transactions,” in alleged violation of the federal
tax code.
[...]
Kaplan sees the development eventually moving away from its spiritual
roots.
“I hope Heavenly Mountain becomes a normal development not a TM
development,” Kaplan said in a phone interview Tuesday, adding he
plans to develop a Scott Miller-designed championship golf course on
his property.
[...]
:===End Quote===
Anton
--
Anton and Janet Hein-Hudson
Apologetics Index
Research resources on religions, cults, sects, doctrines, and related
issues:
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ApologeticsIndex.org
definitions:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=denounce&r=67
Transcendental Meditation news tracker & news archive:
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/category-cat=24.html
Anton
--
Anton and Janet Hein-Hudson
Apologetics Index
Research resources on religions, cults, sects, doctrines, and related
issues:
http://www.religionnewsblog.com (News and news archives)
http://www.apologeticsindex.org (Other research resources)
On Thu, 20 May 2004 01:14:59 -0400, Stephen K Anderson
<steph...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>What a dishonest headline. There isn't denunciation in that statement.
>That is a disavowal, a disassociation, it isn't a denunciation. To claim
>so is a lie.
LawsonE
"ApologeticsIndex.org" <spam...@apologeticsindex.org> wrote in message
news:diapa0tmls7hvgl9f...@4ax.com...
> Dream on. And should you awake at some point, check these dictionary
> definitions:
> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=denounce&r=67
>
It IS a rather vague denounciation: we no longer support TM.
ApologeticsIndex.org
:===Begin Quote===
In the letter, Kaplan said he and his brother, Earl, investigated
Maharishi and the TM movement closely, and subsequently could “no
longer support or be associated with Maharishi, his ideas, his
knowledge or any of his organizations in any way whatsoever.”
- http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7338-.html
:===End Quote===
Doesn't look vague to me. But my guess is that something more
extensive will show up sooner or later.
LawsonE
> On Thu, 20 May 2004 20:10:27 GMT, "LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"ApologeticsIndex.org" <spam...@apologeticsindex.org> wrote in message
> >news:diapa0tmls7hvgl9f...@4ax.com...
> >> Dream on. And should you awake at some point, check these dictionary
> >> definitions:
> >> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=denounce&r=67
> >>
> >
> >It IS a rather vague denounciation: we no longer support TM.
>
> :===Begin Quote===
> In the letter, Kaplan said he and his brother, Earl, investigated
> Maharishi and the TM movement closely, and subsequently could "no
> longer support or be associated with Maharishi, his ideas, his
> knowledge or any of his organizations in any way whatsoever."
> - http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7338-.html
> :===End Quote===
>
> Doesn't look vague to me. But my guess is that something more
> extensive will show up sooner or later.
Its VERY vague as far as denouciations go. It says "we no longer support MMY
or TM."
Of course, I wonder at the length of time it took them to get around to
investigating MMY and the TM org closely seeing how they've been associated
with him for decades.
Pedro
"LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:q9crc.3952$be....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "ApologeticsIndex.org" <spam...@apologeticsindex.org> wrote in message
> news:bo6qa09861m2nt18r...@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 20 May 2004 20:10:27 GMT, "LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"ApologeticsIndex.org" <spam...@apologeticsindex.org> wrote in message
> > >news:diapa0tmls7hvgl9f...@4ax.com...
> > >> Dream on. And should you awake at some point, check these dictionary
> > >> definitions:
> > >> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=denounce&r=67
> > >>
> > >
> > >It IS a rather vague denounciation: we no longer support TM.
> >
> > :===Begin Quote===
> > In the letter, Kaplan said he and his brother, Earl, investigated
> > Maharishi and the TM movement closely, and subsequently could "no
> > longer support or be associated with Maharishi, his ideas, his
> > knowledge or any of his organizations in any way whatsoever."
> > - http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7338-.html
> > :===End Quote===
> >
> > Doesn't look vague to me. But my guess is that something more
> > extensive will show up sooner or later.
>
> Its VERY vague as far as denouciations go. It says "we no longer support
MMY
> or TM."
That is a denounciation acceptable to most people.
Lawson you are just a true blue believer that can not accept that people
denounce MMY and TM. I did. Believe it.
LawsonE
"Pedro" <Nos...@Nono.Nothere> wrote in message
news:cecrc.5490$y92....@news02.roc.ny...
??? It's a very vague denounciation. What is your point?
Pedro
>
>> >
>
> ??? It's a very vague denounciation. What is your point?
For someone with his kind of involvement and who has given millions of
dollars to the movement and now wants nothing to do with them anymore, that
is not a vague denounciation. That one is loud and clear.
Uncle Tantra
>
>For someone with his kind of involvement and who has given millions of
>dollars to the movement and now wants nothing to do with them anymore, that
>is not a vague denounciation. That one is loud and clear.
It's also misspelled. I don't know who did
it first, but everyone's been copying it since
then. The word is denunciation. And yes,
that's what it was.
LawsonE
"Uncle Tantra" <tantr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040521161240...@mb-m18.aol.com...
Loud, clear and still vague. Usually, when you denounce someone, you give
some kind of detail.
One entry found for denounce.
Main Entry: de·nounce
Pronunciation: di-'naun(t)s, dE-
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): de·nounced; de·nounc·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French denoncier to proclaim, from Latin
denuntiare, from de- + nuntiare to report -- more at ANNOUNCE
1 : to pronounce especially publicly to be blameworthy or evil
LawsonE
He left Purusha and got married and was kicked out of the TM organization in
1999?
And if he was kicked out of the TM organization in 1999, why did he wait
until 2004 to say anything?
And if he found out all this bad stuff, why hasn't he made it public, or at
least said how to find out what he found out?
[...]
Kaplan sent out two almost-identical letters, one to business associates of
Heavenly Mountain and one to TM practitioners.
To both groups, he said he is not writing to share what he has learned about
the maharishi.
"But I will say what I have found out is shocking, and because of what I
have learned I feel very sorry for you," he wrote to the TM practitioners.
Kaplan said he has donated tens of millions of dollars and practiced a form
of TM for hours a day for 25 years.
In 1999, he got so sick he nearly died, he said. When he recovered, he
voluntarily left the Purusha TM program for single men and got married.
"For that I was kicked out of the movement," he wrote.
A phone message left yesterday at the Spiritual Center of America was not
returned.
Pedro
Yes and????
Did you look up the others:
3. To give formal announcement of the ending of (a treaty).
Get over it Lawson. The guy announced to the world he wants nothing to do
with MMY any longer
Pedro
> Things that make you go: hmmmm....
>
> He left Purusha and got married and was kicked out of the TM organization
in
> 1999?
>
> And if he was kicked out of the TM organization in 1999, why did he wait
> until 2004 to say anything?
Lawson it took me over 10 years to figure out the garbage of TM, Kaplan beat
me by 5 years. So what is your point?
>
> And if he found out all this bad stuff, why hasn't he made it public, or
at
> least said how to find out what he found out?
I am sure it will follow, but you indoctrinated true blue believers will not
accept it anyway. There have been many before him and will many after him
that decry the garbage of TM but you will continue in it, because it did not
affect you (yet).
>
>
> In 1999, he got so sick he nearly died, he said.
Could that be a serotonin overdose from the Maharishi High?
Stephen K Anderson
regard you have for being truthful.
Stephen K Anderson
Pedro
"Stephen K Anderson" <steph...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40AE87E0...@sympatico.ca...
> There isn't any denounciation at all. Your use of the word shows how
little
> regard you have for being truthful.
It seems that you have no problem with me but with the dictionary:
Main Entry: de·nounce
Pronunciation: di-'naun(t)s, dE-
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): de·nounced; de·nounc·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French denoncier to proclaim, from Latin
denuntiare, from de- + nuntiare to report -- more at ANNOUNCE
Date: 13th century
1 : to pronounce especially publicly to be blameworthy or evil
2 archaic a : PROCLAIM b : to announce threateningly
3 : to inform against : ACCUSE
4 obsolete : PORTEND
5 : to announce formally the termination of (as a treaty)
http://www.britannica.com/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=denounce
Mr Kaplan did #5 He terminated his support and allegiance.
Judy Stein
> "Uncle Tantra" <tantr...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040521161240...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> > >> ??? It's a very vague denounciation. What is your point?
> > >
> > >For someone with his kind of involvement and who has given millions of
> > >dollars to the movement and now wants nothing to do with them anymore,
> that
> > >is not a vague denounciation. That one is loud and clear.
> >
> > It's also misspelled. I don't know who did
> > it first, but everyone's been copying it since
> > then. The word is denunciation. And yes,
> > that's what it was.
>
> Loud, clear and still vague. Usually, when you denounce someone, you give
> some kind of detail.
>
> One entry found for denounce.
Barry's right, the correct spelling is "denunciation."
John Manning
Pedro wrote:
Probably true. But what's your interest? Aren't you the Jeezus freak
that admittedly came here to trash TM? Do you see TMers going to whacko
fundy Christian sites and trashing weirdos like you?
BTW, tell us about those 'visions' that people have in your church. You
have an interested audience here. It's one thing to trash others, but
lets hear about your religion, church and the 'visions' your members have.
How about it, Pete?
LawsonE
"Pedro" <Nos...@Nono.Nothere> wrote in message
Um.....
serotinin overdose = nearly died?
Giggle.
Steve Ralph
"Pedro" <Nos...@Nono.Nothere> wrote in message
news:ZHwrc.25$BW...@news01.roc.ny...
>
> news:_Xurc.3991$Tn6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > Things that make you go: hmmmm....
> >
> > He left Purusha and got married and was kicked out of the TM
organization
> in
> > 1999?
> >
> > And if he was kicked out of the TM organization in 1999, why did he wait
> > until 2004 to say anything?
>
> Lawson it took me over 10 years to figure out the garbage of TM, Kaplan
beat
> me by 5 years. So what is your point?
That you are obviously half as intelligent as Kaplan
SR
> > And if he found out all this bad stuff, why hasn't he made it public, or
> at
> > least said how to find out what he found out?
>
> I am sure it will follow, but you indoctrinated true blue believers will
not
> accept it anyway. There have been many before him and will many after him
> that decry the garbage of TM but you will continue in it, because it did
not
> affect you (yet).
>
> >
> >
>
http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031775581364
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >
> > In 1999, he got so sick he nearly died, he said.
>
> Could that be a serotonin overdose from the Maharishi High?
>
>
>
---
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ApologeticsIndex.org
<steph...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>No university educated, or even just intelligent native english speaker needs
>a dictionary to understand how casually dishonest your use of the word
>"denounced" is. Your lack of regard for the truth is obvious, as is your
>fundamentalist Christian bias.
My, my. That item really got to you, didn't it?
Fact remains:
:===Begin Quote===
In the letter, Kaplan said he and his brother, Earl, investigated
Maharishi and the TM movement closely, and subsequently could “no
longer support or be associated with Maharishi, his ideas, his
knowledge or any of his organizations in any way whatsoever.”
- http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7338-.html
:===End Quote===
:===Begin Quote===
Hundreds of Transcendental Meditation practitioners meditate there in
opulent surroundings.
David Kaplan used to be one of them, but he said in a letter dated
last Friday and released this week that he was kicked out of the
movement in 1999 after getting married.
That prompted him and his twin brother Earl Kaplan, the president of
the Spiritual Center of America, to investigate the maharishi and the
TM organization.
"Due to our findings, I can no longer support or be associated with
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, his ideas, his knowledge, or any of this
organizations, in any way whatsoever," he wrote.
Kaplan sent out two almost-identical letters, one to business
associates of Heavenly Mountain and one to TM practitioners.
To both groups, he said he is not writing to share what he has learned
about the maharishi.
"But I will say what I have found out is shocking, and because of what
I have learned I feel very sorry for you," he wrote to the TM
practitioners.
- http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7375-.html
:===End Quote===
I also feel sorry for you. I may not be a native english speaker, but
it certainly looks to me like David Kaplan denounced Maharishi and TM.
Incidentally, my wife - born in England and raised in Ireland - also
sees it that way.
Could it be that you have meditated just a tad too much to make sense
anymore?
Here's a dictionary definition:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=denounce
Pedro
> > >
> >
>
http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031775581364
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > >
> > > In 1999, he got so sick he nearly died, he said.
> >
> > Could that be a serotonin overdose from the Maharishi High?
> >
> >
> >
>
> Um.....
>
> serotinin overdose = nearly died?
>
> Giggle.
>
Being married to a person who nearly died because to serotonin imbalance,
that is NOT FUNNY Lawson, I did expect something like that from others but
not from you.
Pedro
Great articles.
>
> I also feel sorry for you. I may not be a native english speaker,
Don't feel bad Anton, I am not a native American either and I get the same
picture as you did. Including the aspect of the indoctrinated true blue
TMer having to lash out at the messenger. Can they say ad hominen attack?
> but
> it certainly looks to me like David Kaplan denounced Maharishi and TM.
> Incidentally, my wife - born in England and raised in Ireland - also
> sees it that way.
Mine was born here in the states and she finds it curious that they are
attempting to minimize what they see as damage to the movement by arguing
over semantics. Many people have left the TM movement and denounced it (we
did) but somehow, someone who has given millions to the movement is
different.
>
> Could it be that you have meditated just a tad too much to make sense
> anymore?
It does seem to affect the mind....
LawsonE
"Pedro" <Nos...@Nono.Nothere> wrote in message
Aside from this being a highly unusual diagnosis for your wife (did you get
a second opinion? Consult with the people who did the research on serotonin
overdose?), you were implying that a person's near-fatal physical illness
(or so I read it) was due to serotonin overdose that was due to, I guess,
excessive meditation/sidhis practice.
I'm still giggling over that.
Pedro
>
>
> I'm still giggling over that.
>
Then you must be one sick pup.
LawsonE
"Pedro" <Nos...@Nono.Nothere> wrote in message
No, but you're one very funny dude.
Steve Ralph
"Pedro" <Nos...@Nono.Nothere> wrote in message
>
> "Steve Ralph" <st...@steveralph.f9.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:GTFrc.7267$NK4.7...@stones.force9.net...
> >
> > "Pedro" <Nos...@Nono.Nothere> wrote in message
> > news:ZHwrc.25$BW...@news01.roc.ny...
> > >
> > > "LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:_Xurc.3991$Tn6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > > > Things that make you go: hmmmm....
> > > >
> > > > He left Purusha and got married and was kicked out of the TM
> > organization
> > > in
> > > > 1999?
> > > >
> > > > And if he was kicked out of the TM organization in 1999, why did he
> wait
> > > > until 2004 to say anything?
> > >
> > > Lawson it took me over 10 years to figure out the garbage of TM,
Kaplan
> > beat
> > > me by 5 years. So what is your point?
> >
> > That you are obviously half as intelligent as Kaplan
>
> out the garbage of TM?
>
Obviously I am seriously stupid.
SR
Steve Ralph
"Pedro" <Nos...@Nono.Nothere> wrote in message
Putrock, some of your conclusions are quite hilarious.
Stephen K Anderson
ApologeticsIndex.org
<steph...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Kaplan has since been seen with the Guru Ammachi, who is regarded by her followers
>as Goddess Lalitambika. That wouldn't indicate any change in what some might term
>"vedic" beliefs that he received from Maharishi. So he may have stated that he
>rejects Maharishi's brand of vedism but is there any evidence of a rejection of
>the knowledge of ayurveda, of jyotish, of yagnya and of the vedic gods? All these
>elements are integral to Ammachi's teaching as well.
It is not unusual for apostates to still have contact with adherents
of the religious movement they left.
At this point, all we really know is what has been reported, which is
this:
>> :===Begin Quote===
>> In the letter, Kaplan said he and his brother, Earl, investigated
>> Maharishi and the TM movement closely, and subsequently could “no
>> longer support or be associated with Maharishi, his ideas, his
>> knowledge or any of his organizations in any way whatsoever.”
>> - http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7338-.html
>> :===End Quote===
Anton
Stephen K Anderson
movement is not the same as Ammachi's movement. It may all appear the same from the
blind perspective of someone who believes that everyone that doesn't follow your
narrow, dogmatic version of Christianity is going to hell, but actually it is a
different movement and a different Guru.
To be blunt, why do you care which Vedic Guru they are currently attached to?
ApologeticsIndex.org
<steph...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>It isnt the same movement. It is a different movement and different people. The TM
>movement is not the same as Ammachi's movement. It may all appear the same from the
>blind perspective of someone who believes that everyone that doesn't follow your
>narrow, dogmatic version of Christianity is going to hell, but actually it is a
>different movement and a different Guru.
>To be blunt, why do you care which Vedic Guru they are currently attached to?
If you know it's not the same movement, then why not simply accept
David Kaplan's statement with regard to the Maharishi and his
teachings?
ColdBluICE
> On Thu, 27 May 2004 21:08:54 -0400, Stephen K Anderson
> <steph...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > It isnt the same movement.
> > It is a different movement and different people. The TM
> > movement is not the same as Ammachi's movement.
> > It may all appear the same from the
> > blind perspective of someone who believes that everyone
> > that doesn't follow your
> > narrow, dogmatic version of Christianity is going to hell,
> > but actually it is a
> > different movement and a different Guru.
> > To be blunt, why do you care which Vedic Guru they are
> > currently attached to?
>
> If you know it's not the same movement, then why not simply accept
> David Kaplan's statement with regard to the Maharishi and his
> teachings?
>
> :===Begin Quote===
> In the letter, Kaplan said he and his brother, Earl, investigated
> longer support or be associated with Maharishi, his ideas, his
.."Turn out the lights.. the party is over.." no Kaplans no money.
Yes there went over to Sushree Amamachi's movement.
Pedro
"ColdBluICE" <ColdB...@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
news:cd5299c0.04052...@posting.google.com...
> ApologeticsIndex.org <spam...@apologeticsindex.org> wrote in message
news:<o3kgb0dln7v4csjll...@4ax.com>...
> >
> > :===Begin Quote===
> > In the letter, Kaplan said he and his brother, Earl, investigated
> > Maharishi and the TM movement closely, and subsequently could ?no
> > longer support or be associated with Maharishi, his ideas, his
> > knowledge or any of his organizations in any way whatsoever.?
> > - http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7338-.html
> > :===End Quote===
> >
> > Anton
>
> .."Turn out the lights.. the party is over.." no Kaplans no money.
> Yes there went over to Sushree Amamachi's movement.
Now you understand why they kick people off campus for attending other
sages' meetings. I guess they missed one... Big $$$$ loss this one. Do
you think it was Amachi's movement that unindoctrinated the Kaplans?
ColdBluICE
Pedro.. i don't think Sushree Amma's movement "unindoctrinated the
Kaplans"
i do think it was the former 'tm-ers' that descended upon the Kaplans
once the 'x-tmers' figured out the Kaplans had actually left "tm" to
go see Sushree Amma.
i don't know how much first-hand experience you have at this...but
once a "tm-er" shows up at one of Her functions.. the 'x-tmers' move
in to tell you truth of Lil MishMashi Mahesh.
Used to be 12 years ago.. you would be included on the TM-EX mailing
list.
It would be nice if the Kaplans would set a website and spend some of
the $$$ they made form the "tm-ers" to expose Lil MishMAshi
Mahesh..and reveal what they had discovered.
Maybe Dave Kaplan would have an attack of "good conscience" and pay me
the money he still owes from re-modeling his house back in '86.. with
interest.
Stephen K Anderson
offer! Even if you were born with a name like Kaplan, check it out now!:
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0104/ps2.html
Stephen K Anderson
It gives me a warm feeling that you wouldn't be concerned with the worship of the Vedic
gods. It isn't the kind of broad-minded respect of diverse beliefs that I expected of
those who perpetrated the Inquisition and Crusades. It is encouraging to see the
evolution there.
LawsonE
"ApologeticsIndex.org" <spam...@apologeticsindex.org> wrote in message
news:o3kgb0dln7v4csjll...@4ax.com...
> <steph...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >It isnt the same movement. It is a different movement and different
people. The TM
> >movement is not the same as Ammachi's movement. It may all appear the
same from the
> >blind perspective of someone who believes that everyone that doesn't
follow your
> >narrow, dogmatic version of Christianity is going to hell, but actually
it is a
> >different movement and a different Guru.
> >To be blunt, why do you care which Vedic Guru they are currently attached
to?
>
> If you know it's not the same movement, then why not simply accept
> David Kaplan's statement with regard to the Maharishi and his
> teachings?
>
> :===Begin Quote===
> In the letter, Kaplan said he and his brother, Earl, investigated
> Maharishi and the TM movement closely, and subsequently could "no
> longer support or be associated with Maharishi, his ideas, his
> knowledge or any of his organizations in any way whatsoever."
>
MY question is: why do YOU care?
willytex
Pedro - You're a case in point!
Because you won't admit to yourself and to others that you still
meditate, you're living a lie. If the Maharishi has taught us anything
it's that everyone meditates to a certain degree - that's just what
intelligent people do. In fact, we could'nt go through a single day
without once or twice pausing to take stock of our own mind stuff.
Meditation means simply to think things over, plain and simple.
So I'd suggest to you, Sir, that you stop the lying, cut the bullshit,
and the Maharishi-bashing and just concentrate on the Word of the
Lord. Remember the Paraclete because once you are saved, you are
always saved. But it's still a sin to tell a lie, Pedro.
Pedro
"willytex" <will...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f53f3a73.04053...@posting.google.com...
>
> Remember the Paraclete because once you are saved, you are
> always saved.
Do you really believe that Willy?
Pedro
"ColdBluICE" <ColdB...@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
news:cd5299c0.04052...@posting.google.com...
> "Pedro" <Nos...@Nono.Nothere> wrote in message
news:<wD4uc.4318$gp2....@news02.roc.ny>...
>
> the $$$ they made form the "tm-ers" to expose Lil MishMAshi
> Mahesh..and reveal what they had discovered.
I don't think we have heard the last of them.
>
> Maybe Dave Kaplan would have an attack of "good conscience" and pay me
> the money he still owes from re-modeling his house back in '86.. with
> interest.
Hey, maybe they will start reading amt (now that they are out of the "no
negativity" circles) and who knows they might see this post.
Pedro
"Stephen K Anderson" <steph...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40B928B0...@sympatico.ca...
> It isn't the kind of broad-minded respect of diverse beliefs that I
expected of
those who perpetrated the Inquisition and Crusades.
Another straw man setup from someone who does not understand the Bible. If
in order to become a Christian (little Christ) you have to follow (read
obey, or imitate) Christ who said "turn the other cheek", do you really
think that those that perpetrated murder and torture are Christians? I
think not. Christ warned that there would be wolves that would infiltrate
the Church. But if you never bother to study the Bible, you would not know
the difference now, would you?
Pedro
>
> >
>
> MY question is: why do YOU care?
My question to you is, why does it bother you Lawson? Contrary to popular
belief, this is a forum about TM. The post is highly relevant due to the
involvment of the Kaplans with MMY. Why does this post bother you TMers so
much?
stevelf
> about the maharishi.
>
> "But I will say what I have found out is shocking, and because of what
> I have learned I feel very sorry for you," he wrote to the TM
> practitioners.
Jeez, could it have anything to do with the following, which BTW, I
found most "enlightening"
OK, so I'm an admitted idiot on this computer. I tried to cut/paste
for y'all from the "Fairfield Life" file entitled" Sexy-Sadie.txt" .
But, no-go. But check it out and get back to me...
stevelf
> Hey, maybe they will start reading amt (now that they are out of the "no
> negativity" circles) and who knows they might see this post.
Or read the E-mails of three ex- "skinboys", reminiscing of
Maharishi, as seen in the "Sexy Sadie" file on the "Fairfield Life"
Websight . "Enlightening" read...
LawsonE
"Pedro" <Nos...@Nono.Nothere> wrote in message
Fine sure, whatever, but the person posting the info isn't and has never
been a TM, AFAIK.
Stephen K Anderson
abuse. The sexual abuse of children by Priests being a glaring example. You
can't explain it away by saying it isn't part of really being a Christian is.
It IS the demonstrated history of the Christian church.
Stephen K Anderson
all sorts of nasty things under those conditions right? Sometimes even
things they regret later. In any case, if you won't state your case
publicly, then why should anyone give it any credence?
As for the "sexy-sadie" material, I think people in the movement should know
about those claims and not deny what they might be able to learn from them.
However, any anonymous material can never be given the same weight as verbal
testimony from an acknowledged source.
Pedro
> The whole history of the Christian church is rife with violence, cruelty
and
> abuse.
I don't deny history. What I object to is your description - interpretation
of those crimes to have been committed by true Christians. The whole Bible
is full of admonitions such as "If you love Me you will obey My commands."
Obedience to Christ and His principles is "not" optional, as a matter of
fact it is described in the Bible as a test of faith in Christ. Many who
think they are Christians will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and
say "Lord, Lord, did we not preach in Your name, drive out demons in Your
name, did works of miracles in Your name" and Christ will answer back,
"Away from me you workers of evil, I never knew you" That should be a clear
clue to you. Workers of evil are not Christians. You might call them that,
but that is only because of your ignorance of Bible principles. And you
know what they say about ignorance of the law...
> The sexual abuse of children by Priests being a glaring example.
Exactly my point. You as an unbeliever in Christ as someone who is still in
rebellion against God can by your God given conscience see that activity is
just plain wrong -sin- and your condemnation of it is justified. And by
your condemnation you say "that is not of God" and you are 100% right. The
Bible say "Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor
adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor
drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
Now by definition if they don't enter the kingdom of God are they
Christians? I think not.
>You
> can't explain it away by saying it isn't part of really being a Christian
is.
And why not? I just did.
> It IS the demonstrated history of the Christian church.
That is the whole deal. You don't become a Christian because your go to a
church, just as when I go to Krispy Kream I do not become a cop. They Bible
warns about the evil one sowing tares (workers of evil) among the wheat
(saints) It is up to "you" to know the truth. God has given you his
measuring stick (conscience) to test it with. The Bible says they perish
because they did not love the truth and so be saved. God lays upon you the
responsibility to check out the truth. Test me. Did I misrepresent Christ?
It is up to you to find out who are the wolves among the sheep in what is
called these days the Christian church. And I can tell you there are many
false Gospels preached as well as many false assurances of "being saved"
So the ball is in your court. The excuses that you gave above will not be
accepted by God when you stand before Him for judgment. What are you going
to do? My suggestion is that you quit your rebellion against God. Repent
of your sins and commit your life to obey Him and start reading the Bible
from cover to cover. Wow... did you see that I did not say join a
church....
Pedro
And since when is that a requirement for posting? Does that change the
testimony? I think not.
>
>
LawsonE
Again: why does the original poster care?
Pedro
>
> >>
> >
>
> Again: why does the original poster care?
This may come us a surprise to you, but some people do care about the
welfare of others.
Stephen K Anderson
willytex
Pedro - You are always the son of your father. Is there ever a time
when the Father is not related to his Son? Once you are saved, you are
always saved.
The Incarnation is the Word made flesh in humanity through meditation
on the
Logos, which is the embodiment of God's creative Wisdom, which is
revealed
in the Paraclete, that is, the Holy Spirit inside us.
The Paraclete is the Holy Spirit, whose purpose is to reveal God's
true likeness, to portray the spiritual reality during human
meditation.
"Those who are drawn to the glory indwelling by the Paraclete recieve
new
life" (John 14.16-17).
Do you deny this, Pedro?
Stephen K Anderson
that TM doesnt work? You can't have it both ways. All your
ideological/philosophical/theological apologetics doesn't "wash away" any of the
facts on the ground about how these representatives of Christianity act:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/112/32.0.html
http://www.marriagesavers.org/Columns/C1025.htm
http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=1858097&nav=EyAzN1Xc
Pedro
> Would you ever hesitate to point to the mesbehaviour of any meditator to
claim
> that TM doesnt work?
Have I ever made a blanket statement that TM does not work? I am on the
record here that the trance induced high "works" for some people and is
detrimental to others. I am on the record that my opposition against TM
would probaly seize if they would admit to TM being a religion and put
warning labels about the trance high.
> You can't have it both ways.
I don't. Why do you make blanket accusations without verifying the truth?
Remember the truth will set you free.
Pedro
Keep up the good work. Ze denken dat het belangrijk is of jij ooit met TM
begonnen bent. Is dat niet grappig? Zingen ze in Holland nog van op een
slof en een ouwe voetbalschoen kampioen worden?
Petrus
Ouwe fan, toen the Johans nog voor Ajax speelden.
"LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2rcvc.18694$Tn6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Pedro
> "Pedro" <Nos...@Nono.Nothere> wrote in message
news:<lS5vc.4541$_w3....@news02.roc.ny>...
> > "willytex" <will...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:f53f3a73.04053...@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > Remember the Paraclete because once you are saved, you are
> > > always saved.
> >
> > Do you really believe that Willy?
>
> Pedro - You are always the son of your father.
I have an adopted son. Whose son is he? Was he always?
As a Christian I have become an adopted son of the Father. But I will admit
I was not so from the beginning.
> Is there ever a time
> when the Father is not related to his Son? Once you are saved, you are
> always saved.
That is true from God's perspective. From men's perspective we are
admonished to test ourselves to see *IF* we are in the faith. And faith
without works is dead. Do you think dead faith saves? I think not. So
your faith in doctrine about eternal security does not save you. Doctrine
without deeds is dead. I believe in eternal security, but not in eternal
presumption. Eternal presumption is what casues Christ to say to those that
say "Lord lord did we not preach in your name" "Get away from me you workers
of evil"
Those that have a staunch belief in once saved always saved should test
themselves.
>
> The Incarnation is the Word made flesh in humanity through meditation
> on the
> Logos, which is the embodiment of God's creative Wisdom, which is
> revealed
> in the Paraclete, that is, the Holy Spirit inside us.
Is Jesus Christ your Lord? Do you obey everything He tells you? If not the
Holy Spirit is not in you.
>
> The Paraclete is the Holy Spirit, whose purpose is to reveal God's
> true likeness, to portray the spiritual reality during human
> meditation.
That sound to me an description from someone who has never experienced the
Holy Spirit.
Pedro
> Would you ever hesitate to point to the mesbehaviour of any meditator to
claim
> that TM doesnt work?
And what are you doing with Christianity?
> You can't have it both ways.
Amen brother. Is it not funny that when people point the finger at others,
they are most guilty of that offense themselves:
Stephen K Anderson
http://www.marriagesavers.org/Columns/C1025.htm
http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=1858097&nav=EyAzN1Xc
Pedro
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/112/32.0.html
http://www.marriagesavers.org/Columns/C1025.htm
http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=1858097&nav=EyAzN1Xc
> Your dishonesty is noted
stevelf
> As for the "sexy-sadie" material, I think people in the movement should know
> about those claims and not deny what they might be able to learn from them.
> However, any anonymous material can never be given the same weight as verbal
> testimony from an acknowledged source.
>
LawsonE
"stevelf" <ysoy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:752646f3.04060...@posting.google.com...
"Sexy Sadie" refers to a Beatles song written to protest the alledged
attempted pickup of Mia Farrow by MMY. To this day, Mia Farrow insists that
MMY "put the moves" on her, so "Sexy Sadie" material dates back to the 60's.
Uncle Tantra
>attempted pickup of Mia Farrow by MMY. To this day, Mia Farrow insists that
>MMY "put the moves" on her, so "Sexy Sadie" material dates back to the 60's.
Yup. And one should point out that Mia
had a long history of stories about men
"coming on to her," to the point that most
people who knew her ignored them. Me,
I spent some time around Maharishi and I
never saw any indication that he even had
a dick, much less an inclination to use it. :-)
Unc
stevelf
> "Sexy Sadie" refers to a Beatles song written to protest the alledged
> attempted pickup of Mia Farrow by MMY. To this day, Mia Farrow insists that
> MMY "put the moves" on her, so "Sexy Sadie" material dates back to the 60's.
---Sorry for the confusion. I am specifically referring to the "Sexy
Sadie.txt" file in the file section of the "Fairfield-Life" Website.
Thanks! In this lengthy file , there is a section where three
ex-"skinboys" compare notes. I think it's Ned Wynn , and Billy Clayton
is also mentioned, plus another.
stevelf
> >attempted pickup of Mia Farrow by MMY. To this day, Mia Farrow insists that
> >MMY "put the moves" on her, so "Sexy Sadie" material dates back to the 60's.
>
> Yup. And one should point out that Mia
> had a long history of stories about men
> "coming on to her," to the point that most
> people who knew her ignored them. Me,
> I spent some time around Maharishi and I
> never saw any indication that he even had
> a dick, much less an inclination to use it. :-)
---Sorry for the confusion. I am specifically referring to the "Sexy
stevelf
>
> "Sexy Sadie" refers to a Beatles song written to protest the alledged
> attempted pickup of Mia Farrow by MMY. To this day, Mia Farrow insists that
> MMY "put the moves" on her, so "Sexy Sadie" material dates back to the 60's.
to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/files/
---Scroll down to "Sexy Sadie.txt"
stevelf
Go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/files/
Scroll down to "Sexy Sadie.txt"
The sections I am calling into question are involving MMY's ex-skinboys.
Stephen K Anderson
that he has had sex with men, which I find implausible.
I have still not seen any sign of it being published in any form. I think that is from old posts here.
Another comentator has stated that whatever sex life Maharshi had had would be most remarkable for how
minimal it was.
LawsonE
I believe that Unc was one of his skinboys also.
LawsonE
>
> ---Sorry for the confusion. I am specifically referring to the "Sexy
> Sadie.txt" file in the file section of the "Fairfield-Life" Website.
> Thanks! In this lengthy file , there is a section where three
> ex-"skinboys" compare notes. I think it's Ned Wynn , and Billy Clayton
> is also mentioned, plus another.
Not a member of the group, and the files are members only.
Uncle Tantra
Nope. Nowhere even close. You had to
be celibate to be a skinboy. :-)
Unc
LawsonE
"Uncle Tantra" <tantr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040606033602...@mb-m03.aol.com...
OK, my bad.