Marine killing of innocents confirmed by military
John Manning
Reports from MSNBC and FOX NEWS and right wing freaks respond:
MSNBC
On Wednesday, Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said the accounts are true.
Military officials told NBC News that the Marine Corps' own evidence
appears to show Murtha is right.
A videotape taken by an Iraqi showed the aftermath of the alleged
attack: a blood-smeared bedroom floor and bits of what appear to be
human flesh and bullet holes on the walls.
The video, obtained by Time magazine, was broadcast a day after town
residents told The Associated Press that American troops entered homes
on Nov. 19 and shot dead 15 members of two families, including a
3-year-old girl, after a roadside bomb killed a U.S. Marine.
On Nov. 20, U.S. Marines spokesman Capt. Jeffrey Pool issued a statement
saying that on the previous day a roadside bomb had killed 15 civilians
and a Marine. In a later gunbattle, U.S. and Iraqi troops killed eight
insurgents, he said.
U.S. military officials later confirmed that the version of events was
wrong.
Murtha, a vocal opponent of the war in Iraq, said at a news conference
Wednesday that sources within the military have told him that an
internal investigation will show that "there was no firefight, there was
no IED (improvised explosive device) that killed these innocent people.
Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed
innocent civilians in cold blood."
Military officials say Marine Corp photos taken immediately after the
incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head
and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child
bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials,
who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity because the
investigation hasn't been completed.
One military official says it appears the civilians were deliberately
killed by the Marines, who were outraged at the death of their fellow
Marine.
“This one is ugly," one official told NBC News.
Three Marine officers — commanders in Haditha — have been relieved of
duty, and at least 12 Marines in all are under investigation for what
would be the worst single incident involving the deliberate killing of
civilians by U.S. military in Iraq.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838343/
FOX NEWS
Ali, 76, whose left leg was amputated years ago because of diabetes,
died after being shot in the stomach and chest. His wife, Khamisa, 66,
was shot in the back. Ali's son, Jahid, 43, was hit in the head and
chest. Son Walid, 37, was burned to death after a grenade was thrown
into his room, and a third son, 28-year-old Rashid, died after he was
shot in the head and chest, Rsayef and Hamza said.
Also among the dead were son Walid's wife, Asma, 32, who was shot in the
head, and their son Abdullah, 4, who was shot in the chest, Rsayef and
Hamza said.
Walid's 8-year-old daughter, Iman, and his 6-year-old son, Abdul-Rahman,
were wounded and U.S. troops took them to Baghdad for treatment. The
only person who escaped unharmed was Walid's 5-month-old daughter, Asia.
The three children now live with their maternal grandparents, Rsayef and
Hamza said.
Rsayef said those killed in the second house were his brother Younis,
43, who was shot in the stomach and chest, the brother's wife Aida, 40,
who was shot in the neck and chest while still in bed where she was
recuperating from bladder surgery. Their 8-year-old son Mohammed bled to
death after being shot in the right arm, Rsayef said.
Also killed were Younis's daughters, Nour, 14, who was shot in the head;
Seba, 10, who was hit in the chest; Zeinab, 5, shot in the chest and
stomach; and Aisha, 3, who was shot in the chest. Hoda Yassin, a
visiting relative, was also killed, Rsayef and Hamza said.
The only survivor from Younis's family was his 15-year-old daughter
Safa, who pretended she was dead. She is living with her grandparents,
Rsayef said.
RIGHT WING FREAKS RESPOND
"Shame on John Murtha!"
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/05/now-murtha-blames-marines-for-mass.html
"It would seem appropriate that the United States House of
Representatives should at the very least censure Congressman Murtha, who
has gone so far out of his way to initiate such inflammatory and
potentially dangerous rhetoric. He has dishonored his seat, the military
criminal justice system, the Marine Corps and the United States of America."
http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/177166.php
"If Representative Murtha refuses to resign, the Congress should remove
him for cause. Period."
http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2006/05/17/this-is-very-very-simple/
"Murtha (probably rightly) figures as long as he keeps this up nobody
will dare go after him for him and his brother’s defense kickback scams.
He’d rather betray his country some more than go to jail, I guess."
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/murtha-marines-killed-civilians-in-cold-blood/
"Frankly, this is the actions of a traitor or a sellout. He deserves to
be ridiculed, excoriated and frog-marched off Capitol Hill, then
remanded to jail. No bail."
http://www.californiaconservative.org/?p=3091
See image: http://webpages.charter.net/micah/repjesus102.gif
From:
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2006_05_14_patriotboy_archive.html#114810961174849904
jst...@panix.com
John Manning wrote:
> Reports from MSNBC and FOX NEWS and right wing freaks respond:
Here's the Fox News link; it's an AP story, quite detailed:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188526,00.html
It appears they're not going to try to cover this one up, much
as the odious right-wing freaks like Willytex and those quoted
below would like them to.
John Manning
According to the polls, those right-wing freaks are rapidly dwindling in
numbers. They remind me of those few remaining die hard Nixon-lover
freaks just before he resigned in disgrace. Apparently they re-emerged
from under their rocks during the Bush presidency.
Thanks for the link. I forgot to include it.
ewsnead
"John Manning" <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
news:Z8-dnXUgyoo...@giganews.com...
There remain a few malingering kooks who fervently believe that Nixon was
railroaded by a liberal press because he committed no political crimes any
worse than those of LBJ or Jack Kennedy. However, since he (Nixon) was a
"true patriot," Tricky Dick was singled out by a broad leftist conspiracy
and hung out to dry.
It wouldn't surprise me if Richard Williams was of this ilk.
--
ewsnead
pundit_moderator
> It wouldn't surprise me if Richard Williams was of this ilk.
>
1. Terrorists propaganda is rampant in Iraq.
2. Accusations of a "cover up" is then beging the question.
3. The incident might have been simply a case of collateral damage.
You don't know the details, neither does Jack Murtha. All you know is
reports in the press state that people with an axe to grind are making
accusations.
Murtha's jumping to conclusions, even before an investigation is
complete, gives nearly as much aid and comfort to the enemy as anything
of which the Marines are accused, by giving the perception that it
happened, if it did not.
jst...@panix.com
pundit_moderator wrote:
> ewsnead wrote:
> > It wouldn't surprise me if Richard Williams was of this ilk.
> >
> Three points to consider:
In fact, your three points to consider confirm that you are
indeed of that ilk.
> 1. Terrorists propaganda is rampant in Iraq.
>
> 2. Accusations of a "cover up" is then beging the question.
Read what I wrote again. Nobody here is making accusations
of a coverup, to the contrary.
> 3. The incident might have been simply a case of collateral damage.
> You don't know the details, neither does Jack Murtha. All you know is
> reports in the press state that people with an axe to grind are making
> accusations.
I think I'd have an axe to grind too if Marines stormed into my
house and murdered my family. I'd also have an axe to grind
if I were in the military and took pride in my service, and then
learned that some of my fellow troops had committed a
massacre.
> Murtha's jumping to conclusions
Hardly. A lot of this information is coming from military
sources, not Iraqis. Read the article.
, even before an investigation is
> complete, gives nearly as much aid and comfort to the enemy as anything
> of which the Marines are accused, by giving the perception that it
> happened, if it did not.
But it does appear to have happened. Twelve Marines are under
investigation for possible war crimes; three commanders have
been relieved of duty. So far, nothing has come out in defense
of the Marines. Usually when there are two sides to a story and
one becomes public, the other does as well shortly thereafter.
That hasn't happened in this case.
Murtha's a former Marine. He wouldn't speak out about this if
he weren't positive it had actually happened.
pundit_moderator
> > >
> > Three points to consider:
> >
> In fact, your three points to consider confirm that you are
> indeed of that ilk.
>
I've read a full report of the investigation and that they are proven
guilty of charges in a court. That ilk is the American way.
> > 1. Terrorists propaganda is rampant in Iraq.
> >
> > 2. Accusations of a "cover up" is then beging the question.
> >
> Read what I wrote again. Nobody here is making accusations
> of a coverup, to the contrary.
>
Stop the lying, Judy - I've just about had it with your deception. YOU
read what you wrote.
From: jst...@panix.com
Date: Sat, May 20 2006 7:03 pm
Groups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Subject: Marine killing of innocents confirmed by military
It appears they're not going to try to cover this one up, much
as the odious right-wing freaks like Willytex and those quoted
below would like them to.
> > 3. The incident might have been simply a case of collateral damage.
> > You don't know the details, neither does Jack Murtha. All you know is
> > reports in the press state that people with an axe to grind are making
> > accusations.
>
> I think I'd have an axe to grind too if Marines stormed into my
> house and murdered my family.
>
It hasn't been established that Marines stormed into a house and
murdered a family. That's the point. All you know is what you've read
in the press - you weren't there. You're pre-judging our brave soldiers
- that's proof that you don't support the U.S. military. If you were a
real American you'd keep your mouth shut until the facts are known, and
you'd stop trying to prejudice the case before a trial.
> I'd also have an axe to grind if I were in the military
>
But you don't have an axe to grind against the murdering terrorists who
killed the Marine with the IED. And you don't have an axe to grind if
the terroist sympathizers are dessiminating false political propaganda
about our troops, falsely accusing them of murder. Go figure.
Apparently you've never served in the U.S. military and from what I've
read none of your family ever has either. I could be wrong about this -
maybe your grandfather was a rebel or a Confederate, I don't know.
However, you don't seem to be very supportive of our fighting forces,
that's fer sure. I can't recall a single post of yours in over six
years on this list where you had anything good to say about the U.S.
Military. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> and took pride in my service, and then learned that some of
> my fellow troops had committed a massacre.
>
It hasn't been established that a massacre occured - it could have been
a house full of terrorists and terrorist sympathizers hiding them out,
and the terrorists were killed by U.S. forces in self-defense. It may
be that the people in the house knew about the planted IED, but didn't
warn our soldiers. Apparently it's common for terrorists to hide out in
people's homes in Iraq. The question is, why you'd want to side with
them, before you know all the facts, instead of your own troops.
> > Murtha's jumping to conclusions
> >
> Hardly. A lot of this information is coming from military
> sources, not Iraqis. Read the article.
>
So, if it's such a big story, why isn't it being touted on Al Jazeera
and in the Islamic press?
> >, even before an investigation is complete, gives nearly as much
> > aid and comfort to the enemy as anything of which the Marines
> > are accused, by giving the perception that it happened, if it did not.
>
> But it does appear to have happened.
>
Appears to have happened? And on that basis you judge our fighting men?
What if it didn't happen - then you'd look like you are giving aid and
comfort to the enemy.
> Twelve Marines are under investigation for possible war crimes;
>
But, there's been no charges of any "war crimes" in Haditha by U.S.
soldiers, and there's been no charges filed against any U.S. soldiers
for any "cold-blooded" premeditated murders either.
> one three commanders have been relieved of duty.
>
Has anyone been charged with "cold-blooded" murder in Haditha? I think
not.
> So far, nothing has come out in defense of the Marines.
>
And you would know this how? No report has been issued - the
investigation is still underway. Almost everything you've said about
this incident is pure specualtion.
> Usually when there are two sides to a story and one becomes
> public, the other does as well shortly thereafter.
>
So, what's the other side of the stroy and when are you go8ing to post
it? All you've domne is accuse the Marines without any evidence. You
haven't even attempted to tell theri side of the story. What's up with
that other story about U.S. forces "murdering" people at a wedding,
which you also fell for?
> That hasn't happened in this case.
>
> Murtha's a former Marine. He wouldn't speak out about this if
> he weren't positive it had actually happened.
>
Murtha wasn't there - he's playing the politics card. He should keep
his big pie hole shut until he knows all the facts.
jst...@panix.com
pundit_moderator wrote:
<snip>
> > > 2. Accusations of a "cover up" is then beging the question.
> > >
> > Read what I wrote again. Nobody here is making accusations
> > of a coverup, to the contrary.
> >
> Stop the lying, Judy - I've just about had it with your deception. YOU
> read what you wrote.
Read it again, dickhead.
> From: jst...@panix.com
> Date: Sat, May 20 2006 7:03 pm
> Groups: alt.meditation.transcendental
> Subject: Marine killing of innocents confirmed by military
>
> It appears they're not going to try to cover this one up, much
> as the odious right-wing freaks like Willytex and those quoted
> below would like them to.
>
> > > 3. The incident might have been simply a case of collateral damage.
> > > You don't know the details, neither does Jack Murtha. All you know is
> > > reports in the press state that people with an axe to grind are making
> > > accusations.
> >
> > I think I'd have an axe to grind too if Marines stormed into my
> > house and murdered my family.
> >
> It hasn't been established that Marines stormed into a house and
> murdered a family.
Yes, it has been, as you know, liar.
> > I'd also have an axe to grind if I were in the military
> >
> But you don't have an axe to grind against the murdering terrorists who
> killed the Marine with the IED. And you don't have an axe to grind if
> the terroist sympathizers are dessiminating false political propaganda
> about our troops, falsely accusing them of murder. Go figure.
Liar.
> Apparently you've never served in the U.S. military and from what I've
> read none of your family ever has either. I could be wrong about this
Yes, you're wrong about this, liar.
> maybe your grandfather was a rebel or a Confederate, I don't know.
> However, you don't seem to be very supportive of our fighting forces
Liar.
> that's fer sure. I can't recall a single post of yours in over six
> years on this list where you had anything good to say about the U.S.
> Military. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're wrong, liar.
> > and took pride in my service, and then learned that some of
> > my fellow troops had committed a massacre.
> >
> It hasn't been established that a massacre occured
Yes, it has, liar.
<snip>
> > > Murtha's jumping to conclusions
> > >
> > Hardly. A lot of this information is coming from military
> > sources, not Iraqis. Read the article.
> >
> So, if it's such a big story, why isn't it being touted on Al Jazeera
> and in the Islamic press?
Non sequitur.
> > >, even before an investigation is complete, gives nearly as much
> > > aid and comfort to the enemy as anything of which the Marines
> > > are accused, by giving the perception that it happened, if it did not.
> >
> > But it does appear to have happened.
> >
> Appears to have happened?
Yes, as you know, liar.
<snip>
> > Twelve Marines are under investigation for possible war crimes;
> >
> But, there's been no charges of any "war crimes" in Haditha by U.S.
> soldiers, and there's been no charges filed against any U.S. soldiers
> for any "cold-blooded" premeditated murders either.
Not yet.
> > one three commanders have been relieved of duty.
> >
> Has anyone been charged with "cold-blooded" murder in Haditha? I think
> not.
Not yet.
> > So far, nothing has come out in defense of the Marines.
> >
> And you would know this how?
Non sequitur.
No report has been issued - the
> investigation is still underway. Almost everything you've said about
> this incident is pure specualtion.
Wrong, as you know, liar.
> > Usually when there are two sides to a story and one becomes
> > public, the other does as well shortly thereafter.
> >
> So, what's the other side of the stroy and when are you go8ing to post
> it?
There isn't any other side, that's why nothing has become public,
as I said, as you know, liar..
pundi...@gmail.com
> > It hasn't been established that Marines stormed into a house and
> > murdered a family.
> >
> Yes, it has been, as you know, liar.
>
determined that the U.S. Marines committed cold-blooded, premeditated
murder in Haditha. Please post the report here so we can read it. I
can't seem to find it in the mainstream press.
> > > I'd also have an axe to grind if I were in the military
> > >
> > But you don't have an axe to grind against the murdering terrorists who
> > killed the Marine with the IED. And you don't have an axe to grind if
> > the terroist sympathizers are dessiminating false political propaganda
> > about our troops, falsely accusing them of murder. Go figure.
>
> Liar.
>
So why didn't you complain when the U.S. Marine was murdered by the IED
planted by the terrorists?
> > Apparently you've never served in the U.S. military and from what I've
> > read none of your family ever has either. I could be wrong about this
>
> Yes, you're wrong about this, liar.
>
So, some of your family served in the German military? Which ones?
> > maybe your grandfather was a rebel or a Confederate, I don't know.
> > However, you don't seem to be very supportive of our fighting forces
> >
> Liar.
>
You don't seem to be very supportive of the Marines in Iraq,
Afghanistan or Kuwait. Did your family support the rebels in the Civil
War? Which war did they fight in and on whose side?
> > that's fer sure. I can't recall a single post of yours in over six
> > years on this list where you had anything good to say about the U.S.
> > Military. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> >
> You're wrong, liar.
>
Please repost any message to this list where you supported the U.S.
military.
> > > and took pride in my service, and then learned that some of
> > > my fellow troops had committed a massacre.
> > >
> > It hasn't been established that a massacre occured
> >
> Yes, it has, liar.
>
In what court?
> <snip>
> > > > Murtha's jumping to conclusions
> > > >
> > > Hardly. A lot of this information is coming from military
> > > sources, not Iraqis. Read the article.
> > >
> > So, if it's such a big story, why isn't it being touted on Al Jazeera
> > and in the Islamic press?
>
> Non sequitur.
>
> > > >, even before an investigation is complete, gives nearly as much
> > > > aid and comfort to the enemy as anything of which the Marines
> > > > are accused, by giving the perception that it happened, if it did not.
> > >
> > > But it does appear to have happened.
> > >
> > Appears to have happened?
>
> Yes, as you know, liar.
>
> <snip>
> > > Twelve Marines are under investigation for possible war crimes;
> > >
> > But, there's been no charges of any "war crimes" in Haditha by U.S.
> > soldiers, and there's been no charges filed against any U.S. soldiers
> > for any "cold-blooded" premeditated murders either.
> >
> Not yet.
>
So, there the investigation isn't over yet, no report has been
released, and there's been no trial, but you judge the marines guilty
anyway.
> > > one three commanders have been relieved of duty.
> > >
> > Has anyone been charged with "cold-blooded" murder in Haditha? I think
> > not.
> >
> Not yet.
>
So, there the investigation isn't over yet, no report has been
released, and there's been no trial, but you judge the marines guilty
anyway.
> > > So far, nothing has come out in defense of the Marines.
> > >
> > And you would know this how?
> >
> Non sequitur.
>
> > No report has been issued - the investigation is still underway.
> > Almost everything you've said about this incident is pure specualtion.
> >
> Wrong, as you know, liar.
>
So, what facts can you cite to support your position?
> > > Usually when there are two sides to a story and one becomes
> > > public, the other does as well shortly thereafter.
> > >
> > So, what's the other side of the stroy and when are you go8ing to post
> > it?
>
> There isn't any other side, that's why nothing has become public,
> as I said, as you know, liar..
>
So, you don't know both sides of the story, but you judge the marines
anyway.
> > > That hasn't happened in this case.
> > >
> > > Murtha's a former Marine. He wouldn't speak out about this if
> > > he weren't positive it had actually happened.
> > >
> > Murtha wasn't there - he's playing the politics card. He should keep
> > his big pie hole shut until he knows all the facts.
>
> Murtha's a former Marine. He wouldn't speak out about this if
> he weren't positive it had actually happened.
>
He would if he wanted to play the politics card - just like you do.
You've got no other reason to judge the marines guilty, other than to
play the politics card here with me.
jst...@panix.com
pundi...@gmail.com wrote:
> jst...@panix.com wrote:
> > > It hasn't been established that Marines stormed into a house and
> > > murdered a family.
> > >
> > Yes, it has been, as you know, liar.
> >
> So, you read the final report of the investiagation which has
> determined that the U.S. Marines committed cold-blooded, premeditated
> murder in Haditha. Please post the report here so we can read it. I
> can't seem to find it in the mainstream press.
I don't believe I said I had read the final report of the
investigation. I said it had been established that Marines
stormed into a house and murdered a family.
> > > > I'd also have an axe to grind if I were in the military
> > > >
> > > But you don't have an axe to grind against the murdering terrorists who
> > > killed the Marine with the IED. And you don't have an axe to grind if
> > > the terroist sympathizers are dessiminating false political propaganda
> > > about our troops, falsely accusing them of murder. Go figure.
> >
> > Liar.
> >
> So why didn't you complain when the U.S. Marine was murdered by the IED
> planted by the terrorists?
Marines and other American soldiers, as well as Iraqis, are murdered
every day in Iraq because of the incompetence of the idiot in the
White House, which helped establish and arm the insurgency.
> > > Apparently you've never served in the U.S. military and from what I've
> > > read none of your family ever has either. I could be wrong about this
> >
> > Yes, you're wrong about this, liar.
> >
> So, some of your family served in the German military? Which ones?
Non sequitur.
> > > maybe your grandfather was a rebel or a Confederate, I don't know.
> > > However, you don't seem to be very supportive of our fighting forces
> > >
> > Liar.
> >
> You don't seem to be very supportive of the Marines in Iraq,
> Afghanistan or Kuwait.
Liar.
Did your family support the rebels in the Civil
> War? Which war did they fight in and on whose side?
Non sequitur.
> > > that's fer sure. I can't recall a single post of yours in over six
> > > years on this list where you had anything good to say about the U.S.
> > > Military. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> > >
> > You're wrong, liar.
> >
> Please repost any message to this list where you supported the U.S.
> military.
No.
> > > > and took pride in my service, and then learned that some of
> > > > my fellow troops had committed a massacre.
> > > >
> > > It hasn't been established that a massacre occured
> > >
> > Yes, it has, liar.
> >
> In what court?
I don't believe I said anything about a court. I said it had been
established that a massacre occurred.
> > <snip>
> > > > > Murtha's jumping to conclusions
> > > > >
> > > > Hardly. A lot of this information is coming from military
> > > > sources, not Iraqis. Read the article.
> > > >
> > > So, if it's such a big story, why isn't it being touted on Al Jazeera
> > > and in the Islamic press?
> >
> > Non sequitur.
> >
> > > > >, even before an investigation is complete, gives nearly as much
> > > > > aid and comfort to the enemy as anything of which the Marines
> > > > > are accused, by giving the perception that it happened, if it did not.
> > > >
> > > > But it does appear to have happened.
> > > >
> > > Appears to have happened?
> >
> > Yes, as you know, liar.
> >
> > <snip>
> > > > Twelve Marines are under investigation for possible war crimes;
> > > >
> > > But, there's been no charges of any "war crimes" in Haditha by U.S.
> > > soldiers, and there's been no charges filed against any U.S. soldiers
> > > for any "cold-blooded" premeditated murders either.
> > >
> > Not yet.
> >
> So, there the investigation isn't over yet, no report has been
> released, and there's been no trial, but you judge the marines guilty
> anyway.
That's been established.
> > > > one three commanders have been relieved of duty.
> > > >
> > > Has anyone been charged with "cold-blooded" murder in Haditha? I think
> > > not.
> > >
> > Not yet.
> >
> So, there the investigation isn't over yet, no report has been
> released, and there's been no trial, but you judge the marines guilty
> anyway.
That's been established.
> > > > So far, nothing has come out in defense of the Marines.
> > > >
> > > And you would know this how?
> > >
> > Non sequitur.
> >
> > > No report has been issued - the investigation is still underway.
> > > Almost everything you've said about this incident is pure specualtion.
> > >
> > Wrong, as you know, liar.
> >
> So, what facts can you cite to support your position?
What Murtha and MSNBC have reported.
> > > > Usually when there are two sides to a story and one becomes
> > > > public, the other does as well shortly thereafter.
> > > >
> > > So, what's the other side of the stroy and when are you go8ing to post
> > > it?
> >
> > There isn't any other side, that's why nothing has become public,
> > as I said, as you know, liar..
> >
> So, you don't know both sides of the story, but you judge the marines
> anyway.
There isn't any other side, that's why nothing has become public,
as I said, as you know, liar.
> > > > That hasn't happened in this case.
> > > >
> > > > Murtha's a former Marine. He wouldn't speak out about this if
> > > > he weren't positive it had actually happened.
> > > >
> > > Murtha wasn't there - he's playing the politics card. He should keep
> > > his big pie hole shut until he knows all the facts.
> >
> > Murtha's a former Marine. He wouldn't speak out about this if
> > he weren't positive it had actually happened.
> >
> He would if he wanted to play the politics card - just like you do.
I'm not a former Marine, asshole.
In any case, obviously talking about this incident is not "the
politics card."
> You've got no other reason to judge the marines guilty, other than to
> play the politics card here with me.
No, it's you who is playing politics with a tragedy by trying to
cover it up and pretend it never happened.
jst...@panix.com
The Investigation
Military Expected to Report Marines Killed Iraqi Civilians
By THOM SHANKER, ERIC SCHMITT and RICHARD A. OPPEL JR.
Published: May 26, 2006
WASHINGTON, May 25 - A military investigation into the deaths of two
dozen Iraqis last November is expected to find that a small number of
marines in western Iraq carried out extensive, unprovoked killings of
civilians, Congressional, military and Pentagon officials said
Thursday.
Two lawyers involved in discussions about individual marines' defenses
said they thought the investigation could result in charges of murder,
a capital offense. That possibility and the emerging details of the
killings have raised fears that the incident could be the gravest case
involving misconduct by American ground forces in Iraq.
Read more, including expressions of concern from lawmakers
of both parties who have been briefed by Marine officials:
pundit_moderator
> No, it's you who is playing politics with a tragedy by trying to
> cover it up and pretend it never happened.
>
was suggesting a coverup. My only question is: Did the Marines kill the
terrorist who set up the IED only 50 yards away from the Iraqi's house?
Newsmax: Then there's this intriguing tidbit, again from the Times,
which notes that after the IED was detonated: "Marines and Iraqi forces
searched houses and other structures in the narrow, dusty streets [of
Haditha] - jets dropped 500-pound bombs."
Whoever ordered those airstrikes must not have believed the houses of
Haditha were filled with Iraqi innocents who knew nothing about
planting roadside bombs.
Despite the swirling questions, the press seems eager to jump to
conclusions, taking its cue from Rep. John Murtha - who went public
last week with charges that the Marines killed innocent Iraqis "in cold
blood."
ABC News, for instance, reported Saturday morning that military
investigators had already determined that the killings were
unjustified, and that several Marines would likely face murder charges.
But instead of quoting anyone in uniform, the report offered a
soundbyte from a Human Rights Watch spokesman.
It's also worth noting that House Armed Services Committee Chairman
Duncan Hunter, who got the same insider briefing given to Murtha, says
the "in cold blood" allegations are all wet.
Read more:
'Rush to Judgment Against Haditha Marines'
Newsmax, Saturday, May 27, 2006
http://tinyurl.com/okvqh
jst...@panix.com
pundit_moderator wrote:
> Judy Stein wrote:
> > No, it's you who is playing politics with a tragedy by trying to
> > cover it up and pretend it never happened.
> >
> No, you posted the politics to a meditation forum and then said nobody
> was suggesting a coverup.
I said nobody *here* was suggesting a cover-up, liar.
Turns out there was one early on, until Time blew the whistle in
March. But since Murtha spoke up, it appears Marine officials
have been very forthcoming.
pundit_moderator
> pundit_moderator wrote:
> > Judy Stein wrote:
> > > No, it's you who is playing politics with a tragedy by trying to
> > > cover it up and pretend it never happened.
> > >
> > No, you posted the politics to a meditation forum and then said nobody
> > was suggesting a coverup.
>
How many terrorists were killed in the Iraqi's house? From what I've
read, seven terrorists were killed by the Marines. What were the seven
terrorists doing inside the house hiding behind women and children?
> Turns out there was one early on, until Time blew the whistle in
> March. But since Murtha spoke up, it appears Marine officials
> have been very forthcoming.
>
Chicago Tribune: Pantano is upset specifically that a prominent war
critic, U.S. Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) diagnosed Haditha last week as if
he had all the facts: "Our troops overreacted because of the pressure
on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood." Pantano's
advice that Americans not join Murtha's rush to judgment is sound.
Investigators may conclude that Haditha was as much an atrocity as the
My Lai massacre of March 16, 1968, when U.S. soldiers killed 175 to 400
unarmed Vietnamese
villagers. It's also worth noting, though, that we recall My Lai in
part because incidents of unprovoked murder by U.S. troops in combat
zones are quite rare.
Read more:
'Investigating Haditha'
Chicago Tribune, May 31, 2006
http://tinyurl.com/old9b
jst...@panix.com
pundit_moderator wrote:
> jst...@panix.com wrote:
> > pundit_moderator wrote:
> > > Judy Stein wrote:
> > > > No, it's you who is playing politics with a tragedy by trying to
> > > > cover it up and pretend it never happened.
> > > >
> > > No, you posted the politics to a meditation forum and then said nobody
> > > was suggesting a coverup.
> >
> jst...@panix.com wrote:
> > I said nobody *here* was suggesting a cover-up, liar.
> >
> So, why are you attempting to cover-up the Marines side of the story?
There isn't one, as you know.
pundit_moderator
> >
shoot the Marines before a firing squad without a trial?
So, you don't know both sides of the story - I thought so. How many
terrorists were killed in the Iraqi's house? Six or seven? And why were
they hiding in the house behind women and children?
Washington Post: People familiar with the case say they expect that
charges of murder, dereliction of duty and making a false statement
will be brought against several Marines.
In addition to video from the drone, investigators have records of
radio message traffic between the Marines and a command center, said
military defense lawyers who have discussed the investigation with
Marines who were at Haditha but who have not yet been formally retained
by them.
"There's a ton of information that isn't out there yet," said one
lawyer, who, like the others, would speak only on the condition of
anonymity because a potential client has not been charged. The radio
message traffic, he said, will provide a different view of the incident
than has been presented by Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) and other
members of Congress. For example, he said, contrary to Murtha's
account, it will show that the Marines came under small-arms fire after
the roadside explosion.
Read more:
'Drone's Video May Aid Marine Inquiry'
By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post, Tuesday, May 30, 2006; A03
http://tinyurl.com/pszsj
jst...@panix.com
pundit_moderator wrote:
> > > So, why are you attempting to cover-up the Marines side of the story?
> > >
> jst...@panix.com wrote:
> > There isn't one, as you know.
> >
> So, why then, are there two investiagation going on?
One is into the incident itself, the other into the coverup.;
Why don't we just
> shoot the Marines before a firing squad without a trial?
Why didn't we just put Moussaoui in the electric chair
without a trial?
(Of course, he was the lucky one--most of the terrorist
suspects we have won't ever get a trial. Maybe we should
send the Marines to Guantanamo, lock 'em up, and throw
away the keys.)
> So, you don't know both sides of the story - I thought so. How many
> terrorists were killed in the Iraqi's house? Six or seven? And why were
> they hiding in the house behind women and children?
Non sequitur.
pundi...@gmail.com
> >
> > Why don't we just shoot the Marines before a firing squad without a trial?
>
> Why didn't we just put Moussaoui in the electric chair
> without a trial?
>
So, to you, the Marines defending themselves in a guerilla war in
Haditha, are on the same level as Moussaoui and the 9/11 suicide
bombers.
> > So, you don't know both sides of the story - I thought so. How many
> > terrorists were killed in the Iraqi's house? Six or seven? And why were
> > they hiding in the house behind women and children?
> >
> Non sequitur.
>
So, to you, it's not important how many terrorists were killed inside
the house at Haditha.
At the very least, our troops deserve the benefit of the doubt until
tried. It's hard to believe that Memorial Day was only a few days ago,
and already the political pundits of A.M.T. are spitting on our brave
soldiers.
New York Times: He acknowledged that the initial reports from the field
indicated inaccurately that noncombatants were killed in the bomb
explosion. The Marines also issued a press release the day after the
killings that said 15 Iraqi civilians had died in the bomb blast and 8
insurgents had been killed in an ensuing firefight.
Yet debriefings on Nov. 20 gave rise to another version of events.
Marines at the site said that the civilians had been killed by
cross-fire during a firefight with suspected insurgents, the officials
said.
But the senior officer said, "On the 19th and 20th of November, there
was no information to indicate there was a law of war violation."
'Initial Response to Marine Raid Draws Scrutiny'
By David S. Cloud and Eric Schmitt
New York Times, June 3, 2006
http://tinyurl.com/r9mkx