Do you know msm?
Claude
I recently documented msm (methylsufonylmethane), a dietary supplement
having an action on inflammation and muscular pain, including fibromyalgia.
Go to http://www.clickmarks.com/click/claudef/?VN=0 and browse through the
MSM file (12 references).
Hope people will find the "facts" they seach :-)
--
Claude
masuruha
thinking of taking MSM. Also the link to Medline is wonderful. The only
articles I could find on MSM were in the 1985 range, about tumor
prevention. Very interesting! But, If you have KIDNEY problems, maybe it
is not good to take, says one reference. So please read! Sue in Montana
Claude <cla...@medscape.com> wrote in article
<sm6%4.620$cg1....@198.235.216.4>...
Deirdre
I'd like to read, but I can't see the signup-setup - it's very
low-vision *unfriendly* - and to see some links I really wish I didn't
have to sign up at all. Plus I'd like to see some more recent
references.
I've never seen this particular information site before. Anyone know
anything about it? I prefer to know who's dishing up the information.
Thanks, all.
Mrs Magoo
--
What I give form to in daylight is only one per cent
of what I have seen in darkness.
- M. C. Escher
Rosemarie Shiver
Found the part about the kidneys and have it copied below. It's from
the Sulfur-MSM link. I have my opinion about what it means; I'll await
yours, first!
Persons with kidney problems or recurrent kidney stones may not want to take
MSM. Certain renal tubular defects can make a person susceptible to
recurrent kidney stones (2). Other kidney defects include errors of
metabolism in which processing of sulfur amino acids is altered (2). Such
persons may wish to avoid MSM.
There ya go! Please lemme know what you think; I haven't seen this b4
either.
Hugs w/Luv,
Rosie S.
Demented Dame
--
"If you wanna get it done, you gotta fight for yourself."
--- Meat Loaf, Bat Outta Hell II
"Deirdre" <dei...@netidea.com> wrote in message
news:39452C...@netidea.com...
Deirdre
Go ahead and shoot - my sense of it is that it's something one would
have to watch for but I don't think one one have to be overly concerned
unless the defect was already dx'd. In general we all have "metabolic
errors" - that's our problem. The defects can/could/might be found at
every turn.
But there is one thing I find important - and it should be considered by
anyone undertaking *any* treatment at all, and in particular, treatment
that actually tends to improve metabolic function, which I would call in
general "orthomolecular treatment" with vitamins, minerals, amino acids,
dietary modification/correction and the like. Due to the fact that
these treatments are *effective* - that they produce bodily changes -
those changes could work in certain respects - though indirectly of
course - to the detriment of the patient.
An example would be too-brisk treatment with too few substances. Just
as increased metabolic function by something like Prozac may stress
certain systems that haven't been functioning or asked to function at a
higher level, and may not be prepared to - say - excrete waste products
at the new and higher rate required.
I was *warned* by Dr H at my - I think - second appointment to *watch*
for *nephrosis* which is just a fancy name for kidney disease (at least
that's my understanding of that one). The suffix -osis usually means a
condition.
So the warning was in general, and the organs mentioned are important
organs of waste handling. The kidneys *are* responsible for breaking
down some substances (the liver isn't the only one).
This is why I believe whatever supplements we use, we should be starting
small and increasing dosages slowly. It's such an important general,
overall rule I don't think it's possible to over-emphasize it. And of
course in my case I definitely broke this rule by going from a little
MSM to a *lot* in a very short period of time. I am happy to report,
however, that I don't notice any kidney type problems so far. I *was* a
good girl when I started niacinamide but that was because I was scared
stiff. However if people follow the rule of keeping a seasick pill
handy at all times I no longer see any problem other than the fact that
we're sometimes really forgetful and might do as I did, which was to
take two 1 g doses one after the other - probably separated by about a
half hour. It really wasn't funny when I couldn't find the seasick
pills and was hampered in my search by the dry heaves...
My take on this is that if the risk is not pronounced that we ought to
understand the warning as a necessary protection for professional
advice-givers. I feel that we as a group of patients suffer an illness
that would necessarily raise the incidence of various "health
problems". MSM over the long term would do far more good for the
kidneys and overall cell function (including very likely the cells that
make up the kidneys and the tubules etc etc so that *as long as we
escape the worst case scenarios we ought to benefit much more if we take
MSM than if we didn't take it at all.
Especially if MSM is taken with vitamin C (in my case, in equal
quantities with MSM) then the kidneys will definitely be stimulated to
work harder than they otherwise might be called upon to do. In obesity
much of the avoirdupois is actually retained water. As I continue the
vitamin C - with no bowel problems - I have to assume that it's my
kidneys that are taking care of what would otherwise be excessive tissue
water retention. My lower legs have normal colouration - which means
not red. The thumb pressure test on my shins does not cause pain, nor
is there a change in colour on pressure. In illness, the pressed spot
goes white and there is a slight indentation. Then the usual red colour
comes back. That test is now negative - no shin pain (it used to be
agonizing) and no depression, no change in colour. This test is easy and
can be done by anyone. It works on forearms too, though it's hard to
push for oneself because it can be very painful.
If your kidneys perform with increased MSM and increased vitamin C, I
believe you're alright - for the moment - because the truth is that if
one's going to be pessimistic about these things, and be 150% cautious -
one would wind up without much food, water or anything else and one
really wouldn't live very long at all.
So it really is a matter of looking at a thing in a balanced fashion.
There's also an element of courage and determination involved. When one
looks at FMS and related symptoms on one hand, and the possibility of
pushing things so as to push kidney function beyond the kidneys' ability
to function, on the other hand, if the risk is reasonably small then
slow increments would be one's most positive approach.
However as always I ought to point out that I began tx with
orthomoleculars in 1995, and therefore I don't believe I faced that much
risk in respect of renal disease by beginning tx with MSM in August
1999. I was already in better shape in some respects. I certainly
don't blame my loss of vision on orthomoleculars - I blame it on a
simple case of direct malnutrition and considering that, I am lucky to
be alive at all.
The short answer would be "I don't think it's a problem" *for me*. But
I would be watchful.
We all want someone else to tell us it's going to be alright. *However*
someone else *can't tell us any such thing* because it *might not be
alright*. We're the ones who have to figure out whether something is a
risk for us or not. And we have to know what it really is that doctors
are saying when they issue warnings. Reading these warnings amounts to
"there's a tiny chance that..." so "don't come crying to me if you're
one of the unlucky ones."
And honestly, that's only fair. But our problem is we're so *likely* to
misunderstand the warning and give it more weight than we should. The
warning is real, but if it refers to a tiny risk, then it's on that one
should base *one's own decision*. And it *is* one's own decision.
Love from Mrs Magoo
Rosemarie Shiver
I'm glad you found and read the kidney info. Thanks for your insights,
too. Mine run along the same vein, kinda sorta.
It's a good idea to start new things one at a time...just like when
eliminating certain foods to see if you have sensitivities, it's one at a
time.
My personal feeling is if I had renal tubular problems I woulda had
stones by now...my body sure was a gallstone factory! laff
But..and this is important...what's the secret? Why hide at all? Tell
your healthcare professionals. Keep 'em up to date! If they know that I'm on
3,000 mg. MSM and 1,500 mg. Vitamin C in advance, then anything new that
pops up can be seen in the proper perspective.
It's especially important 'cuz you never know. I still have my
appendix...if it ruptures today I NEED the MD's to know that MSM has
blood-thinning properties.
All this is to say 'forewarned is forearmed.' And the more that know the
safer I am.
Now..if I use a diuretic to get rid of about 10 lbs. of water..that
still leaves forty of fat as well...laff. I'll get around to it soon, I
think. :-)
Warm Magoo Kind of Hugs,
Rosie S.
Demented Dame
--
"If you wanna get it done, you gotta fight for yourself."
--- Meat Loaf, Bat Outta Hell II
"Deirdre" <dei...@netidea.com> wrote in message
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