Supplements for fibromyalgia and pain.
Mark London
and minerals are often needed in greater doses in fibromyalgia, due to
hormonal and chemical imbalances that are present. Taking supplements don't
necessarily help with pain levels, but they help with making you all around
healthier, and thus better able to function. I personally take a multi
megadose vitamin and mineral pill with each meal. I also add calcium and
especially magnesium. I've heard that many people need B12, either through
shots or taking it sublingual (I'm experimenting with a new version of B12,
methylcobalamin, which is supposed to be a more reduced form, and therefore
more potent).
People with fibromyalgia often need more amino acids. Taking extra protein,
or amino acid supplements can help. Some people I know actual have
gotten tested for which amino acids are low. Whey is a good amino acid
supplement, as it's especially high in branched chain amino acids, which a
study has shown to be low in people with fibromyalgia.
MSM has been found by many people without be helpful. This might also be due
it's ability to stimulate production of amino acids, since many amino acids
contain sulfur. One of those amino acids is taurine. Taurine is a natural
muscle relaxant, plus it can have some nerve inhibitory functions. It also
modulates intracellular functions, so it's a very useful amino acid. For that
reason, it might but useful to try extra. One can also find magnesium in the
form of magnesium taurate, so in that way you get both supplements at once.
I found the following interesting article on supplements for pain:
http://www.nutritionfocus.com/nutrition_library/pain_killers_germano.html
In fibromyalgia, there is excess nitric oxide. Too much nitric oxide can
increase pain levels. Also, it can form other chemicals which are potent
oxidants. These can cause oxidation problems, resulting in inflammation and
tissue damage. Osteoarthritis can occur (there is a study which shows that
nitric oxide products degrade chondroitin sulfates). So you have to find ways
to decrease the danger of nitric oxide. Additionally, inflammatory cytokines
IL-6 and IL-8 have been found to be high in fibromyalgia, and these might also
increase pain levels. Luckily, studies don't show that fibromyalgia doesn't
have the huge amount of oxidation problems and immune problems that CFS has,
but we still have a certain amount of disfunction that makes supplements worth
trying. Some of the supplements listed on the above page might be especially
useful to try:
For pain:
Omega-3 fatty acids, which reduce IL-1 and IL-6.
Vitamin E, which when deficient, decreases levels of 11,6.
Standardized curcumin, which decreases IL-1 and IL,8.
(this is tumeric, often combined with OA supplements)
Pycnogenol, which decreases nitric oxide.
(you can find several people on the web who claim this helped their
fibromyalgia a lot. I've heard varying personally stories, but it's
definitely worth trying.)
Quercetin, which inhibits IL-8.
(I already take this myself, I recommend it. I got my wife to try it for
her allergies and sinus problems, and it greatly helped. Both Quercetin
and Pycnogenol are also antioxidants. And they also improve blood flow,
having anticoagulant properties.)
Repair Nutrients
- NAC (n-acetyl cysteine), which helps boost glutathione
levels that are reduced during inflammation.
(Actually, newer reports aren't as favorable to NAC as they used to be.
Most people with CFS take specially formulated whey, that
can increase glutathione much more efficiently, i.e. Immupro and Immunocal.
Vitamin C supposedly increases glutathione also.)
- Glucosamine, which helps rebuild hyaluronic acid and cartilage.
- Chondroitin sulfate, which rebuilds cartilage and is anti-inflammatory.
- SAMe (s-adenosyl-L-methionine), which is important for
cartilage synthesis, is analgesic and has antidepressant activity.
(If you are deficient in B12, your SAMe levels will be low, so if you
find SAMe to help, you might consider B12.)
- Niacinamide, which assists in chondrocyte activation, an
important element in cartilage synthesis.
(Didn't you say you just started taking this?)
Ah.... More supplements to burn one's money on.
Does anyone else have a shelf filled with supplements that you stopped
taking? :)
Mark London
M...@PSFC.MIT.EDU
Sampatron
>Ah.... More supplements to burn one's money on.
>Does anyone else have a shelf filled with supplements that you stopped
>taking? :)
Nope. Except for the DHEA and Pregnenelone, I finish up the bottle before I
stop taking them! :>)
Sam in Texas §(ô¿ô)§
Minds are like parachutes; they function best when open.
A closed mind is a good thing to lose.
"Minds are like parachutes; most people use them only as a last resort."
~Ben Ostrowsky
Katroberts
filled with supplements that you stopped
>>taking? :)
>Nope. Except for the DHEA and Pregnenelone, I finish up the bottle before I
stop taking them! :>)
Same here. It took a lot of expense because I'll try what I read here and hope
it works for me. But I like what I take now, and although expensive to keep up
with them, I firmly believe it's what got me off of narcotics and feeling back
in the real world again.
Kathy in Sacto
vl_...@hotmail.com
Before experimenting I would strongly suggest that you talk to your
pharmacist first. Some things just don't mix well with certain
medications and some vitamins and minerals shouldn't be taken at the
same time.
--
Victoria Lee Hirt
Visit Turtle Flats - http://scican2.scican.net/haxton/
REBECCA
"Mark London" <m...@psfc.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:21APR01....@psfc.mit.edu...
> Ah.... More supplements to burn one's money on.
> Does anyone else have a shelf filled with supplements that you stopped
> taking? :)
>
> Mark London
> M...@PSFC.MIT.EDU
Yup.... once a year or so I go through the collection of drugs and vitamins
that didn't work, and ditch them.
The OTC stuff I give away to friends/family if it hasn't expired.
Some of the prescription stuff I give away if I know someone that has the
exact same prescription.
I hate wasting money!
I also give away "health and beauty aids" like shampoos that I tried but had
allergic reactions too...
Most of the time when trying something new I buy only a 1 month supply. I
figure that if I don't see some positive benefits within a month, I wont buy
another bottle. on a few occasions I had negative reactions to supplements
and ended up discontinuing them. right now I am stuck with a bunch of
enada... it gives me too much gas! I don't want to give it to anyone I
know, cause then I'll have to smell their farts! eeeew! :^)
sigh.... seriously though... that's one of the biggest headaches with the
fms... the constant experimenting. the constant search for something,
anything that might help alleviate the pain and fatigue. the hope and
optimism when we buy a new supplement or fill a new prescription... then the
disappointment and let down when it doesn't work. after awhile pessimism
sets in, and we start giving up... not willing to waste anymore money on
stuff that probably wont work.
I think the pessimism is what keeps me coming back to newsgroups and other
on-line support groups. I know that I need to walk the fine line between
optimism and pessimism.. or what I call being a "realist". if I am too
negative and never try anything new, I'll never get anywhere... but I also
have to be somewhat pessimistic and do my homework before I decide to
invest in a new treatment. being on-line and "talking" to everyone about
all the latest fms protocols helps me to decide what to try next... it
helps me be more realistic and less pessimistic.
Rebecca
Mark London
supplements that I mentioned. I think the main problem with some of them,
like Pycnogenol and Quercetin and other anti-oxidants like Gingko, is that
they all have an anticoagulant effect, so if you are taking any drugs for that
effect, you should be aware of this. In fact, Vitamin E and even MSM both
have this effect also.
You can find a ton of information about all supplements on the web, including
side effects. Pharmacists best know about the pills they dispense, and not
necessarily those that are only found in health food stores. In fact, if you
want to ask someone, it be more useful to ask the people who sell the sups in
the health food stores.
In a previous article, vl_...@hotmail.com wrote:
->Before experimenting I would strongly suggest that you talk to your
->pharmacist first. Some things just don't mix well with certain
->medications and some vitamins and minerals shouldn't be taken at the
->same time.
->--
->
->Victoria Lee Hirt
->Visit Turtle Flats - http://scican2.scican.net/haxton/
Mark London
M...@PSFC.MIT.EDU
Katroberts
>they all have an anticoagulant effect, so if you are taking any drugs for that
effect, you should be aware of this. In fact, Vitamin E and even MSM both have
this effect also. <
I never read that about MSM. (I'll check more.) But just recently I got over
a bleeding ulcer -- did the MSM hinder that, is that what you're saying, or is
that different? Thanks.
Kathy in Sacto
Rosemarie Shiver
but a lotta folk seem to skim over that bit of info.
http://users.rcn.com/ereshkigal/msm.htm
Doesn't help much on the blood testing for me, tho'. :-( Still ruff.
Lots of factors can contribute to the slow healing of a bleeding ulcer,
Kathy...the number one that comes to mind is high h-pylori. Do you know if
yours is, by chance?
Soft Hugs,
Rosie S.
Demented Dame
--
"If you wanna get it done, you gotta fight for yourself."
-- Meat Loaf, Bat Outta Hell II
"Katroberts" <katro...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010421214311...@ng-mp1.aol.com...
Michael Baugh
along with bismuth (as in Pepto-Bismol) can KILL the H-pylori? And
by killing it, kill the cause of the ulcer? I really think it's too kewl
that the
little bugger is able to live in such an acid environment, just munching
away at the stomach lining. I know, it's not so nice if you have an ulcer,
but the adaptation is really impressive.
But anyway, it might be nice to treat the whole household at the same time.
Rosemarie Shiver <pos...@strato.net> wrote in message
news:C_rE6.18800$u7.82...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
Katroberts
Kathy...the number one that comes to mind is high h-pylori. Do you know if
yours is, by chance?<
No Rosie, I don't have that bacteria. I wish I did, then it could be taken
care of once and for all.
Kathy in Saco
vl_...@hotmail.com
>Unfortunately, most pharmacists (and doctors) know zilch about certain
>supplements that I mentioned.
Then I suggest the person find a different pharmacist. Mine have
counseled me a lot on various herbal/prescription.
You'd probably be surprised to find that in U.S. Pharmacist monthly
journals there are articles on herbals. From what I have found
pharmacist are coming up to speed very quickly because they have to
since many more people are using herbals and vitamins in one form or
another.
>I think the main problem with some of them,
>like Pycnogenol and Quercetin and other anti-oxidants like Gingko, is that
>they all have an anticoagulant effect, so if you are taking any drugs for that
>effect, you should be aware of this. In fact, Vitamin E and even MSM both
>have this effect also.
The problem with making limited statements above is people take
different combinations of medications, vitamins, herbals, and foods
and they need to be advised per what THEY take, not in general terms.
Example: If my doctor tells me to take Celebrex for my arthritis and
that's all I take, fine. But if on my own I decide to take willow
bark (for pain), an aspirin a day for my heart, plus I eat large
quantities of certain fruits I could wind up in the emergency room
fairly quickly because I'd be ingesting large quantities of salicylic
acid on top of Celebrex which can lead to internal bleeding.
>You can find a ton of information about all supplements on the web, including
>side effects. Pharmacists best know about the pills they dispense, and not
>necessarily those that are only found in health food stores. In fact, if you
>want to ask someone, it be more useful to ask the people who sell the sups in
>the health food stores.
I guess you have never noticed all the vitamins and herbs now sold in
drug stores. Drugstores that have Web sites also have sections on
vitamins and herbs. Have you actually ever sat down and discussed
your medicines, vitamins, and herbals with your pharmacists or are you
just making assumptions as to what they would say?
In addition, since there is no certification for someone to dispense
vitamins or herbals at a health food store. So when asking someone
there about drug interactions you have no idea whether you are talking
to someone who actually knows what they are talking about or just
making a guess.
To repost my original statement:
Before experimenting I would strongly suggest that you talk to your
pharmacist first. Some things just don't mix well with certain
medications and some vitamins and minerals shouldn't be taken at the
same time.
Your life could depend on following this advice.
--
Victoria Lee Hirt
Mark London
->bark (for pain), an aspirin a day for my heart, plus I eat large
->quantities of certain fruits I could wind up in the emergency room
->fairly quickly because I'd be ingesting large quantities of salicylic
->acid on top of Celebrex which can lead to internal bleeding.
Now, did your pharmacist tell you not to eat large quantities of fruits, or
did you find this out yourself? I dare say that pharmacists don't have the
time to sit down with you and discuss all your health problems, your diet,
your supplements, and your meds, and how they may all interact. In fact, most
doctors these days don't do that, which is why you have people dying all the
time of drug side effects. Your point about interactions is well taken, but
I would advise people to do their own research rather than relying on whether
a pharmacist has kept uptodate with their newsletters or not (and since one of
those newsletters recently included how guaifenesin can greatly help people
with fibromyalgia, I would very much suspect what is put in them also, since
it's totally at the discretion of one particular writer, rather than getting
many sources from the web.)
->I guess you have never noticed all the vitamins and herbs now sold in
->drug stores. Drugstores that have Web sites also have sections on
->vitamins and herbs. Have you actually ever sat down and discussed
->your medicines, vitamins, and herbals with your pharmacists or are you
->just making assumptions as to what they would say?
I notice them, but it's a very small selection compared to what is in health
and natural food stores, where they have 10 times the selection. I.e., try to
find a magnesium supplement in your drugstore that is chelated. My drugstore
only sells their own line of supplements, or the cheapo brands with lots of
fillers and additives.
->In addition, since there is no certification for someone to dispense
->vitamins or herbals at a health food store. So when asking someone
->there about drug interactions you have no idea whether you are talking
->to someone who actually knows what they are talking about or just
->making a guess.
A certification doesn't mean that person knows any more than you or another
person. They simply read the newsletters that you mentioned in order to get
their information. Good health food store sellers read the same stuff, as
they get plenty of people asking the same questions, and also sell a lot
more of the supplements than the pharmacists, so they get a lot more feedback
from people.
Btw, speaking of herbs, I know certain herbalists that would tell you that you
should be consulting with them rather than simply popping herb pills that
you find in drugstores, but that's a different story.
Mark London
M...@PSFC.MIT.EDU
lightlady
> Btw, speaking of herbs, I know certain herbalists that would tell you that
you
> should be consulting with them rather than simply popping herb pills that
> you find in drugstores, but that's a different story.
>
> Mark London
But a very Important story ! herbs , just because they are "All Natural",
it does Not imply that they are harmless...quite the contrary... so a person
must eithewr do Tons of research themselves, Or consult someone who has..
and usually i find an herbalist has more knowledge of herb & chemical drug
interactions, thna someone who just deals with pharmacueticals
--
lynn, the Lady of the Lamps
http://www.homestead.com/lightlady/home.html
opinions mine from my own experiences
seek proper health diagnosis & treatment
from health professional of your choice
Deirdre
<< Isn't it neat that an antibiotic traditionally used for 'female
problems', along with bismuth (as in Pepto-Bismol) can KILL the
H-pylori? >>
What antibiotic *formerly* used for "female problems"?
<< And by killing it, kill the cause of the ulcer? >>
Where did you get that modern fairy story...
<< I really think it's too kewl that the little bugger is able to live
in such an acid environment, just munching away at the stomach lining.
>>
The point being it *isn't* able to live in an acidic environment. That's
one reason yoghurt is so *helpful*.
<< I know, it's not so nice if you have an ulcer >>
You do? You've had an ulcer?
<< but the adaptation is really impressive. >>
What adaptation? H. pylori to acid? Wanna see some dead Helicobacter
pylorii? They can't live in stomach acid. That's the whole point. If you
want every disease to start with an infection and them's the rules,
hokay, kid, ya gotta theory. But doctors didn't buy it until they
realized they could treat the infection and leave the cause the way it
was/is.
<< But anyway, it might be nice to treat the whole household at the same
time. >>
Why? Everyone's got an H. pylori infection?
> > "Katroberts" <katro...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20010421214311...@ng-mp1.aol.com...
> > > Mark London said,
> > >
> > > >they all have an anticoagulant effect, so if you are taking any drugs
> for
> > that
> > > effect, you should be aware of this. In fact, Vitamin E and even MSM
> both
> > have
> > > this effect also. <
> > >
> > > I never read that about MSM. (I'll check more.) But just recently I
> got
> > over
> > > a bleeding ulcer -- did the MSM hinder that, is that what you're saying,
> > or is
> > > that different? Thanks.
> > >
> > > Kathy in Sacto
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
--
Attempt the end, and never stand to doubt;
Nothing's so hard but search will find it out.
"Seek and Find"
- Robert Herrick, 1591-1674
Deirdre
<< Lots of factors can contribute to the slow healing of a bleedin
ulcer, Kathy ...the number one that comes to mind is high h-pylori. Do
you know if yours is, by chance? >>
<< No Rosie, I don't have that bacteria. I wish I did, then it could be
taken care of once and for all. >>
I don't think so. All those NSAIDs would have knocked out any H. pylori
so that wasn't the cause. You could still get/have it in future. I take
my MSM in solution 4 grams of crystals to 4 oz of water in the
expectation that the MSM is healing my stomach and hopefully improving
the general health of my stomach and the rest of my digestive tract.
That's the aim, anyway.
Mrs Magoo
vl_...@hotmail.com
>In a previous article, vl_...@hotmail.com wrote:
>->that's all I take, fine. But if on my own I decide to take willow
>->bark (for pain), an aspirin a day for my heart, plus I eat large
>->quantities of certain fruits I could wind up in the emergency room
>->fairly quickly because I'd be ingesting large quantities of salicylic
>->acid on top of Celebrex which can lead to internal bleeding.
>
>Now, did your pharmacist tell you not to eat large quantities of fruits, or
>did you find this out yourself?
Pharmacist.
>I dare say that pharmacists don't have the
>time to sit down with you and discuss all your health problems, your diet,
>your supplements, and your meds, and how they may all interact.
Then get a different pharmacist. Mine talk to me and answer questions
when I need for them to.
>In fact, most
>doctors these days don't do that, which is why you have people dying all the
>time of drug side effects.
Not entirely correct. Part of the problem is any given drug is tested
within certain limitations, but no drug is tested for all possible
drug combinations within every individual physiology possible. While
X drug may work wonderful for stated disease on average, it may become
deadly when mixed with two other drugs and an unknown condition.
>Your point about interactions is well taken, but
>I would advise people to do their own research rather than relying on whether
>a pharmacist has kept uptodate with their newsletters or not (and since one of
>those newsletters recently included how guaifenesin can greatly help people
>with fibromyalgia, I would very much suspect what is put in them also, since
>it's totally at the discretion of one particular writer, rather than getting
>many sources from the web.)
LOL! And you think sources on the Web are superior how? Most of what
I have seen is just conjecture aimed at selling you a particular
philosophy or product.
>->I guess you have never noticed all the vitamins and herbs now sold in
>->drug stores. Drugstores that have Web sites also have sections on
>->vitamins and herbs. Have you actually ever sat down and discussed
>->your medicines, vitamins, and herbals with your pharmacists or are you
>->just making assumptions as to what they would say?
>
>I notice them, but it's a very small selection compared to what is in health
>and natural food stores, where they have 10 times the selection. I.e., try to
>find a magnesium supplement in your drugstore that is chelated. My drugstore
>only sells their own line of supplements, or the cheapo brands with lots of
>fillers and additives.
Then I suggest you find a better drugstore.
>A certification doesn't mean that person knows any more than you or another
>person. They simply read the newsletters that you mentioned in order to get
>their information.
It means they went to college for how many years against a person who
might have worked in a store for how many weeks or months? And how
many herbalist have actually studied pharmacology?
>Good health food store sellers read the same stuff, as
>they get plenty of people asking the same questions, and also sell a lot
>more of the supplements than the pharmacists,
I've gotten, "I don't know." a lot more from a health food store than
a pharmacy. Like it or not herbals are DRUGS.
>so they get a lot more feedback from people.
Are you really saying that pharmacists don't get more feedback than
herb shop owners?
>Btw, speaking of herbs, I know certain herbalists that would tell you that you
>should be consulting with them rather than simply popping herb pills that
>you find in drugstores, but that's a different story.
Ah, but I have consulted an herbalist, my doctor, and a pharmacist and
have done massive amounts of reading on my own.
rian
It just makes the lining thinner so that the beasties can attack easier.
Deirdre <dei...@netidea.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
3AE317...@netidea.com...
Katroberts
that wasn't the cause. You could still get/have it in future. <
I'm tested each time I get an ulcer. And I don't take NSAIDs anymore. So far,
I've never had that dang H thing.
Kathy in Sacto
HERRONME
the MSM because of the blood thinning claim. Read and see what YOU think. From
Erish's site.
"4. What are the possible side effects of MSM?
The most common side effect is gastrointestinal problems (diarrhea), rash, and
headache. Taking MSM with food tends to decrease the GI upset. If you take too
much, expect to spend some extra time in the bathroom. Minor cramping is also
possible.
MSM can cause a thinning of the blood, so if you're taking blood thinners, make
sure to check with your doctor before beginning this. It is usually safe to
take, but you may require a lowering of the dosage of your other medication due
to this effect."
It says MSM CAN cause a thinning of the blood. Everyone is saying it DOES. Just
don't think it's wise to cause a panic.
Just my humble opinion.
Eileen
Deirdre
<< NSAID's not not knock out H.pylori. It just makes the lining thinner
so that the beasties can attack easier. >>
I thought the ibuprofen or whatever just dropped into an eroded spot and
ate it deeper. I don't know how that would get infected unless you
weren't taking any more NSAIDs, weren't drinking coffee, etc etc etc
*and* then got an infection.
The fellow who started all this drank a liquid laced with the beasties.
Then he got super sick... I believe him and all that but if he hadn't
had an erosion or two I really do not see how he could have gotten sick
unless he diluted his stomach acid a lot *or* unless he was like me and
didn't have a lot of stomach acid to begin with.
The whole thing was/is rather bizarre IMO but I do admit people have
ulcer disease but they also have it with and without H. pylori as Kathy
just stated - she doesn't have it. I don't see why an NSAID like
ibuprofen or motrin or whatever wouldn't kill germs like H. pylori.
?????
Let's find out. Heh heh.
Oh, I forgot to say how could I have any since I take crystalline
vitamin C in some quantity. I was just drinking a jilkshake then got the
idea of adding yoghurt, and now I'm whacking up a banana - today with
half a mango too - and some yoghurt with orange juice concentrate and a
half teaspoon of vitamin C crystals.
The ones that like an acid environment are acidophilus bacteria that are
supposed to live in the gut and make B vitamins. They like acid. That's
why the name.
There are others that are salt-loving.
Anyway I vote we try out some ibuprofen for killing germs.
Hmmm. That website with the nutrients for handling pain - Drs Passwater
and Germano - mentioned something about what NSAIDs do. I'm going to go
back and look.
Let's think of something with a lot of germs for an experiment.
Vitamin C kills germs.
Where's Sam? we need an experiment.
Heh heh - fun, fun - love it. I'll just bet ibuprofen would kill H.
pylori.
How can we get some H. pylori?
Okay, this is too silly - I'll go look at that article and see if I can
find that bit about NSAIDs over time. Oh, yes, making inflammation
worse. That's what it was. I'll go get the quote.
Mrs Magoo ;-)
Deirdre
Gee, Eileen, you're right. The thing is I was *hoping* to get some
loosening; and I was *hoping* to get some blood-thinning because doctors
don't give me anything any more which is another reason I've quit
completely going to them until I get to the Coast. Rosie didn't say
anything *panicky* I don't think. I went for months and months taking 10
g or more a day of MSM and vitamin C and was waiting for this wonderful
loosening - I would have settled for *serious* loosening. And if I
happened to cut myself same old same old - never bleed. It's disgusting
and distressing. I just don't bleed. Well, I suppose given something
really serious I would but so far just same old hypercoagulation.
Although according to my ND I bled nicely when I was going to get my
ozone treatments but then he's used to people who're sicker'n dogs, like
me - I don't suppose he'd know what healthy blood looks like unless he
ever looked at his own.
Anyhow Eileen I didn't realize you were *worried*. Please, m'dear, life
is an adventure and we're all supposed to be living it. Adventurously,
too. Which reminds me - something peculiar has come over me of late. I
have finally identified this new mood as *boredom* and I do believe it's
getting to be *extreme*.
I've never been *bored* in my entire life. Except - well - there have
been certain llort entities from time to time, but even there I put up
an effort and found some interest, at least, in some of the more bizarre
offerings and some of the more heated rejoinders.
Hmmmm. I wonder if my relatively recent interest in flame threads has
been an early sign of the development of Boredom. I don't remember if
boredom is supposed to be a good thing or a bad thing but in my case I'm
*sort* of convinced it's liable to turn out to be a good thing. For
example I'm *howlingly* bored *here*. I *want out*. I wanna be fwee,
fwee, FWEEEEEE! not *really* yelling - much LOL...
Anyway Elaine I think you're doing just fine. If your elbow is giving
you probs maybe don't beat the carpets quite so hard or lift heavy
stuff. Kind of favour the poor thing and maybe you could get one of
those elbow thingies to put on (if you can stand it) just as a reminder.
Or maybe get it taped. Or...
But I think the oil solubles especially *all* of them would be really
good. Plain vitamins A, D and E from the pharmacy are fine. Concentrated
fish oils. And maybe you could try glucosamine sulfate or glucosamine
hydrochloride - they both work for me. Also I was suffering from tight
neck muscles last night and took a 500 mg capsule of taurine according
to Mark London's suggestion and it worked *great*. I was quite
surprised. A very distinct effect and quite fast too. Actually that
might be the one to try. I got mine from my ND. It's from Thorne. It's
an idea anyway.
Love from Mrs Magoo ;-)
Katroberts
> I don't see why an NSAID like ibuprofen or motrin or whatever wouldn't kill
germs like H. pylori. ????? <
For me, it may kill the H bacteria, but it also eats my stomach in the process.
Not a good tradeoff for me. NSAIDs come with a warning that they may cause
bleeding ulcers 'without warning' and one stomach perforation was enough for
me. The 'without warning' part should be taken very seriously. No pain, must
be working well. Then voila! Stomach opens up without so much as a minor pain
to let you know it's happening. {shudder at the memory...}
Kathy in Sacto
KCarter952
>
>>they all have an anticoagulant effect, so if you are taking any drugs for
>that
>effect, you should be aware of this. In fact, Vitamin E and even MSM both
>have
>this effect also. <
I was taking MSM, Vitamin E, and garlic
at the same time. When I found out that
the E and garlic were blood thinners I
stopped taking it. I was having a time
with excuse me guys, excessive menses.
I had also stopped the MSM because I
had run out of Vitamin C. Now I don't have
that problem anymore. I can see why now.
I was taking 3 blood thinners. I didn't know
about MSM having that effect too. Ladies
take note if you have a similar problem.
CE-CE
KCarter952
What antibiotic are you speaking of?
CE-CE
Deirdre
<< ...they all have an anticoagulant effect, so if you are taking any
drugs for that effect, you should be aware of this. In fact, Vitamin E
and even MSM both have this effect also. >>
CE-CE:
<< I was taking MSM, Vitamin E, and garlic at the same time. When I
found out that
the E and garlic were blood thinners I stopped taking it. >>
CE-CE, what was "it" that you stopped taking "it"? You say you stopped
taking the vitamin E and the garlic, so do you mean you stopped taking
the MSM also? Because of what you said below, I'm just wondering.
<< I was having a time with excuse me guys, excessive menses. >>
Did your doctor suggest any of these items? Were you taking an
anti-coagulent? Warferin or Heparin or...
<< I had also stopped the MSM because I had run out of Vitamin C.
Vitamin C was a good idea of course. So was the MSM. I have quite severe
"icky sticky blood" or hypercoagulation and 10 grams each of MSM and C
never even put a dint in my hypercoagulation.
<< Now I don't have that problem anymore. >>
The excess menses? Flooding - which I had for a period - can happen
without any medications at all. That was a long time ago of course.
However I always had painful menstruation from - aha - hypercoagulation
which whole thing the doctor explained as the flow not being fast
enough. This was intended to explain the huge clots. I don't think that
was an adequate explanation myself.
<< I can see why now. >>
I don't know if you do. I don't know if I do. I know one gentleman - a
neighbour - who would give anything to stop taking warferin which he
calls "rat poison" but it's not rat poison in this context, just "people
medicine" and he needs it, and his dosage was properly titrated in
hospital. I think he's absolutely wrong to want to change to something
"natural" which frankly speaking, I have no idea and I don't know who
would have an idea of whether it would work or not. Even taking vitamin
E, garlic, MSM and vitamin C. Personally I think he's a lucky man and he
should just not complain. He should be more realistic and accept what
he's given thankfully IMO - but then I'm a bitchy old bat... OTOH I
thihk I'm right. And I think these warnings, if designed to scare people
who don't even take an anti-coagulant, into stopping taking substances
that are actually helping them...
I feel Victoria posted quite sensibly. I'm glad for Canadians that our
pharmacists seem so up to date on vities and such, and look things up
for you if they don't know. OTOH of course pharmacists are busy but you
don't bother them if possible during a busy time of day or on certain
days of the week.
Of course we still don't seem to be able to get certain things like MSM.
And certainly there are some HFS personnel who don't know what they're
doing but if you don't spot them hopefully they will tell you what I was
told just recently: "You're going to have to discuss this with Xxxxx,
he's the one who knows. I just started working here awhile ago and I'm
sorry, but I still don't know enough to be able to help you. I am not
supposed to supply information without Xyyy being here. If customers
know what they're looking for I am allowed to see it to them."
I thought that highly sensible. I think people are *all* sort of on
their uppers; really working hard and being particularly scrupulous
about what they're doing.
<< I was taking 3 blood thinners. I didn't know about MSM having that
effect too. >>
I don't think you were taking three blood-thinners, CE-CE. I think it
really depends on whether they were actually having such an effect. I'm
pretty short of information in your post. I don't really know what you
were taking.
<< Ladies take note if you have a similar problem. >>
CE-CE
Fair enough but CE-CE, what problem? Excessive menses? Bleeding? What?
Also if MSM is supposed to have such effects how on earth do you explain
why I can still get holes poked into me and no blood comes out?
And don't tell me I'm bloodless, because I do so have blood. ;-)
Huggz'n love from Mrs Magoo ;-)
Sampatron
>CE-CE:
><< I was taking MSM, Vitamin E, and garlic at the same time. When I
>found out that
>the E and garlic were blood thinners I stopped taking it. >>
>
>I don't think you were taking three blood-thinners, CE-CE.
Well, depends on your definition of "blood thinners," but at least garlic and
vitamin E have been shown to have an effect on the platelets that prevent them
from causing clotting as quickly as it would normally occur. IOW, they can
cause longer bleeding times. Not always necessarily a dangerous thing, but
something to be aware of.
There are also a whole lot of other factors that enter into the clotting
process, not the least of which is calcium and certain factors produced by the
liver. We used to give TUMS to people who were having plateletpheresis done
when the anticoagulant that we used was getting to them because it was binding
up their calcium. (They'd get tingling in their fingers and toes, and often
their lips, too.)
Other factors, like Factor VIII and Factor IX, besides being manufactured in
the liver, are also genetically controlled and when absent cause things like
classic hemophilia A and Christmas disease, both clotting disorders. And
there's a whole bunch more.
So, some people might take things like vitamin E and garlic and get some
excessive bleeding, and other people might not notice anything at all. It
depends on which part of the clotting process you might have that could be more
sensitive to interference and whether or not that's the part that's being acted
upon.
Blood clotting is a complicated process and I've never been able to accurately
remember all the factors and the fractions of them that are produced and
interact and all the different pathways that can be utilized when one is
interfered with. We had one doctor who was giving an inservice class who was
putting it all down on the blackboard and we were all trying to take notes but
we couldn't keep up with him, so we finally just sat there and watched as he
outlined the whole procedure and all the side paths it could take. He was all
over the board! When it was done all we could do was give him a standing
ovation! He looked stunned, as if he couldn't quite figure out what it was all
about, but it was so plain to him that he didn't realize the rest of us were
just boggled at his depth of knowledge.
But I digress.
As usual with this stuff, YMMV, and what's true for one is not necessarily true
for another and what's good for one may not be for another. Only be aware of
the potentials and possibilities and pay attention to what's going on in your
own body. It's not like anybody else's and only you can decide if something
unusual is happening.