Milk
Michael Warner
I haven't posted here for a long time, but I just wanted to mention
something. I've been quite a heavy milk drinker my whole life - over
half a litre a day, including with breakfast cereal. I've have FM for
about 4 years.
About two weeks ago I happened to go without it for a couple of days,
and I noticed that I felt significantly better. Thinking of a possible
connection I've avoided it ever since, and my improvement has
held, particularly reduced aching and stiffness when I wake up, which
is the worst time of day for me.
I've also noticed an improvement in my mildly irritable bowel - fewer
trips to the potty, and less sensitivity to other problem foods. I
also think I've lost a little weight.
Whether this will pan out I don't know yet, and I also don't know
whether I'd be considered lactose intolerant by the usual standards.
But perhaps ingesting lactose, a substance than the body needs to
remove from working muscles, isn't a great idea for us. And it's not
as though cow's milk is particularly good for humans.
I'd be interested to hear whether anyone has identified milk as a
problem, and whether anyone else benefits from giving it up for a few
days. Give it a try!
O-P
Even the small amount of lactose in a pill has the potential
to bother me. There is a lot of hidden lactose in processed
foods, often in the form of dairy whey, which I'm told contains
up to 70% milk sugar. My numbers may be off, but it's a big
offender. I read food labels scrupulously to reduce the
chance of getting nailed.
Take care,
Ownpeace
[Dances With Vacuum Cleaners]
NFR123
the head as well as the muscles. Not surprised you feel better by laying off
the milk. Hope it lasts for you.
Nanci
"If it weren't for stress, i'd have no energy at all."
Jim Clements
Lactase is the enzyme that breaks down the lactose, sugar, in milk.
Lactic acid produced by the cells is another animal entirely. Glad to
hear of your good results.
There will be some that say where will I get the calcium that my body
needs if I can't drink milk. (Don't believe everything they push on
TV. Antacids for calcium? Who are they trying to fool? I don't even
want to get started. Also, don't take what I say here as gospel.
Research for yourself.)
Milk and dairy is not a good source of Ca. The protein in the milk
will actually cause the body to lose more calcium than the milk
povides. Calcium is probably one of the most abundant minerals in a
healthy diet of grains and vegetables. Again, need the lower stomach
acid to fully benefit from the calcium in the food.
I use milk on cereal. What can I say, I like the taste. When the
body is back in balance and has sufficient digestive enzymes I do not
think a little milk harmful.
all the best,
Jim
clem...@xmission.com
Katka3
>problem, and whether anyone else benefits from giving it up for a few
>days. Give it a try!
I havenever drank milk so it doesn't apply - but - I do notice less allergies
when I and the kids stay away from dairy.
Kathi
Official #1 Poster
& Lady of Loud Whining
Laura
and its one of my favorites. 2% skim or even whole milk tastes like water to me
.
I grew up on a farm and drank raw milk for years, and while the pasturized low
fat milk is better for you, I can't stand it.
Laura Keeper of the Hounds
Marilynn
digesting ice cream. This is cruel!!! Marilynn
Katka3 <kat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000305021615...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
Ereshkigal
I grew up drinking goat's milk. We had goats on the farm and a milking
stand. I thought cows milk was gross when I first started drinking it, but
it's not so bad now.
kisses,
e
--
Delirium
Using your mind to make your world a happy place.
Joan @ home
calcium out. Otherwise, I am right with you,
especially about antacids--the calcium in them is
almost unabsorbable. In fact a lot of ads on TV
use dubious nutritonal claims. A little bit of
learning...and raw broccoli every chance you get.
Joan @ home
> >I'd be interested to hear whether anyone has identified milk as a
Jim Clements
Phosporous has the same affect, probably more so. That is why soft
drinks, which contain phosphoric acids, are so dangerous to
musculoskeletal health. In the years ahead I am sure we will be
seeing a very large number of people having osteoporosis problems and
still being told to take antacids to remedy the condition.
The real danger is that when a person loses their health, they also
lose many freedoms. Or, if they still try to enjoy those freedoms the
cost can be physically painful.
Live right, eat right, exercise, breathe, enjoy life, live long, and
prosper.
All the best,
Jim
clem...@xmission.com
On Mon, 06 Mar 2000 14:44:53 GMT, "Joan @ home" <jem...@idirect.ca>
wrote:
Keith & Cindy
dairy products can't be tolerated. I'm a sufferer of this. I use a natural
digestive enzyme anytime I have dairy products and that helps alot. I still
can enjoy ice cream, eggs, milk, and moderate amount of cheese. I also use
lactose free milk (2%) and it isn't bad.
It might help you too.
"Katka3" <kat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000305021615...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
> >'d be interested to hear whether anyone has identified milk as a
> >problem, and whether anyone else benefits from giving it up for a few
> >days. Give it a try!
>
Maureen in Mukilteo
There appears to be a subgroup of PWFM who have allergies and who experience
a lessening of symptoms when those allergens are removed. Milk is an
allergen for some in this population (25 percent). That study found that the
group with fewer FM symptoms responded better to this strategy.
("A Novel Treatment for Fibromyalgia Improves Clinical Outcomes in a
Community Based Study""Journal of Musculoskeletal Pain." Vol 6(2) 1998.)
On another note, casein (one of the proteins in milk) has been linked rather
strongly to atherosclerosis. In fact, when researchers want to a lab animal
to develop atherosclerosis (eg for a study that is examining how to reduce
atherosclerotic lesions) they feed them casein. Of course, milk is also a
source of saturated fat.
I'm not too big a fan of milk. A cup a day is probably alright but it gives
me the willies when I see these recommendations for 4 and 5 cups a day!
Maureen in Mukilteo
"Keith & Cindy" wrote
<All the research I've done on FMS points to lactose intolerance when milk
or dairy products can't be tolerated. I'm a sufferer of this. I use a
natural digestive enzyme anytime I have dairy products and that helps alot.
I still can enjoy ice cream, eggs, milk, and moderate amount of cheese. I
also use lactose free milk (2%) and it isn't bad.>
Kathi said:
<<'d be interested to hear whether anyone has identified milk as a problem,
and whether anyone else benefits from giving it up for a few days. Give it a
try!
I have never drank milk so it doesn't apply - but - I do notice less
Alex Barna
I sure am glad I'm not a "lab animal" or I'd probably be in trouble with my 3
16oz glasses of milk a day. :) I wonder if as many ppl were "lactose intolerant"
when milk only lasted 3 days before spoiling? Just something to think about.
GramPaHugs,
Alex,
Maureen in Mukilteo wrote:
>
> My take on milk.
> There appears to be a subgroup of PWFM who have allergies and who experience
> a lessening of symptoms when those allergens are removed. Milk is an
> allergen for some in this population (25 percent). That study found that the
> group with fewer FM symptoms responded better to this strategy.
>
> ("A Novel Treatment for Fibromyalgia Improves Clinical Outcomes in a
> Community Based Study""Journal of Musculoskeletal Pain." Vol 6(2) 1998.)
>
> On another note, casein (one of the proteins in milk) has been linked rather
> strongly to atherosclerosis. In fact, when researchers want to a lab animal
> to develop atherosclerosis (eg for a study that is examining how to reduce
> atherosclerotic lesions) they feed them casein. Of course, milk is also a
> source of saturated fat.
>
> I'm not too big a fan of milk. A cup a day is probably alright but it gives
> me the willies when I see these recommendations for 4 and 5 cups a day!
>
> Maureen in Mukilteo
>
<SNIPPED> :)
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Katroberts
the willies when I see these recommendations for 4 and 5 cups a day!<
I think milk is the perfect beverage. There's nothing it doesn't go with (with
the exception of ice cream) and you'd think I lived with other people by the
amount of milk I buy. I would hate to ever have to give it up. THAT would be
a shame! Breakfast, lunch, dinner, snack, all accompanied by milk, milk, milk!
Kathy in Sacto
helen
thing. helen
Alex Barna wrote in message <38C859DF...@worldnet.att.net>...
gives
>> me the willies when I see these recommendations for 4 and 5 cups a day!
>>
llr...@my-deja.com
"helen" <hand...@brooksdata.net> wrote:
> I don't think that milk allergies and lactose intolerance are the same
> thing. helen
You are correct! I have asthma and allergy-like symptoms, but I would
always "fail" the allergy testing. I don't react to anything that's
airborne - well, except pollutants. Turns out that I am allergic to all
dairy (and wheat.) The last numbers that I heard is that 30% of the
human population is allergic to dairy. At first I thought that I would
never be able to give it up, but now I can't drink a glass of milk - it
tastes like it's gone bad. There are also some good substitutes. Tofutti
is actually just as good as ice cream, I promise. Some of the others
take a while to adjust to, but most people feel much better. The black
circles under my eyes lightened a good deal, as well. Only for
traditional holidays do I use the regular stuff - there is no go
non-dairy replacement for romano and marscapone!
As an aside, humans are the only species to deliberately drink the milk
of another species. The chemical make-up of cows' milk is dramatically
different than that of humans. According to Macrobiotic literature, if
we were to drink the milk of another species that closest resembled that
of humans', we would drink cats' milk.
Sorry to pontificate - it's just a subject that is very near and dear.
LL
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Thumper
Well... CHOCOLATE milk maybe!!! ;)
Thumper
http://www.jps.net/thmprwrx/karate.htm - Get a Black Belt! Pleeezze!!!!
http://www.jps.net/thmprwrx/fibrom.htm - FMS page
http://www.jps.net/thmprwrx/fitfood.htm - Fitness Program
acoftil
etched permanently in the ether:
>I don't think that milk allergies and lactose intolerance are the same
>thing. helen
Helen-
You are 100% right on. Lactose intolerance is an intolerance to milk
sugar. A dairy allergy usually means you are allergic to the proteins
in milk. Lactose intolerance is NOT life threatening. An allergy to
milk can be life threatening--as allergies are progresive.
I am allergic to milk. Every time I "cheat" I risk landing in the ER
in anaphalactic (sp?) shock.
FWIW, Nancy
Joan @ home
milk Blue in CA?
xt...@home.com
of people love milk. But what is milk suppose to do? Its suppose
to get babies to put on weight. You rarely see adult cows
suckling for milk. It seems like many adults are now finding out
they are lactose intolerant. My husband is one of them. I cant
tell you how much my life is better after we figured this out. Talk
about gas. There are lots of way to get calcium, and keep bone
density. I have always hated milk, and hardly ever drank the
stuff. I never had one cavity until this last year (age 31) and
it was in an area that was really hard to get a toothbrush into.
Crystal
Keith & Cindy <bigd...@UNSPAMcybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:8a8qg0$2ivu$1...@news.inc.net...
> All the research I've done on FMS points to lactose intolerance when milk
or
> dairy products can't be tolerated. I'm a sufferer of this. I use a
natural
> digestive enzyme anytime I have dairy products and that helps alot. I
still
> can enjoy ice cream, eggs, milk, and moderate amount of cheese. I also
use
> lactose free milk (2%) and it isn't bad.
> It might help you too.
>
> "Katka3" <kat...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20000305021615...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
> > >'d be interested to hear whether anyone has identified milk as a
> > >problem, and whether anyone else benefits from giving it up for a few
> > >days. Give it a try!
> >
> > I havenever drank milk so it doesn't apply - but - I do notice less
> allergies
> > when I and the kids stay away from dairy.
Nancy H
(Katroberts) writes:
>I think milk is the perfect beverage. There's nothing it doesn't go with
>(with
>the exception of ice cream) and you'd think I lived with other people by the
>amount of milk I buy. I would hate to ever have to give it up. THAT would
>be
>a shame! Breakfast, lunch, dinner, snack, all accompanied by milk, milk,
>milk!
>
>Kathy in Sacto
You and my girlfriend and my kids, I go through 1 gl a day. I don't like it but
my kids do so they drink it any time they want. Gets a bit expensive but they
have growing bones so they need it. Thank goodness I get my calcium in other
ways. Again *Yuck* I say.
Nancy H. in Wv
Proud Member of W.H.I.N.E.
Lady of the Mountains
ICQ #53373598
Just goes to show you, where ever you go, there you are.
Nancy H
maw...@aol.combyteme (Thumper) writes:
>Well... CHOCOLATE milk maybe!!! ;)
If I *Have to* drink milk this is the only way. But so far nobody has told me
I *have to* drink milk. yuck!!
Ereshkigal
>>I'm not too big a fan of milk. A cup a day is probably alright but it gives me
>the willies when I see these recommendations for 4 and 5 cups a day!<
>
>the exception of ice cream) and you'd think I lived with other people by the
What??? Milkshake!! Ice cream + milk. They go poifect together.
>amount of milk I buy. I would hate to ever have to give it up. THAT would be
>a shame! Breakfast, lunch, dinner, snack, all accompanied by milk, milk, milk!
kisses,
Katroberts
Ahh! Well that's a bit different. I was thinking of having a bowl of ice
cream and washing it down with milk. To me, 'water' is the only thing that
goes with a bowl of ice cream, should I want a beverage. Milkshakes ---
ahhhhh!!!!
Kathy in Sacto
M.A. Pickering
was the protein I drink Organic Milk no fat of course but only small
amounts now so it keeps my GI tract calm I probably don't drink less
than a 1/2 cup a day..I also watch foods that have milk additives in it
as well as ice cream, cheese, etc etc...It's the same with eggs and the
same with meats..it's the perservatives as well as the hormones and
anitbiotics they feed the animals...I am a classic example of
environemental allergies..I would suggest getting a allergy test on milk
you might find the same results...
May Angels Watch Over You!!
Anita "Spirit of the Mountain"
Thumper
>milk Blue in CA?
Pour it in a blue glass, it looks the same... ;)
de...@earthlink.net
>
>Milk and dairy is not a good source of Ca. The protein in the milk
>will actually cause the body to lose more calcium than the milk
>povides. Calcium is probably one of the most abundant minerals in a
>healthy diet of grains and vegetables. Again, need the lower stomach
>acid to fully benefit from the calcium in the food.
>
What vegetables have calcium???
Maureen in Mukilteo
of calcium-rich foods can be found at the end.
Maureen in Mukilteo
Someone said:
<Milk and dairy is not a good source of Ca. The protein in the milk will
actually cause the body to lose more calcium than the milk provides.>
This is only a theory and a controversial one at that.
"The generalization that 'protein' causes calcium loss or may be a risk
factor for osteoporosis without specifying the type and source of protein is
therefore incorrect." (J Nutr 1988; 118:657-60)
High protein intake is strongly suspected of increasing calcium excretion
from the kidneys but many researchers disagree with this idea. In any event,
the amount of calcium lost or gained from one glass of milk cannot be
calculated without knowing the protein and calcium content of the whole diet
for the whole day.
One oft quoted researcher estimated that for every 50 grams of protein
consumed, another 60 mg of calcium is lost in the urine. (One reason I am
not too hot on the Zone diet!)
However, this research was done using only purified proteins in a controlled
diet for a short time. Some studies that have tried to measure the same
effect using whole proteins and a normal diet did not find a calcium loss.
The jury is still out and nothing definite can be said.
Theoretically it works this way:
How much calcium is present in the body depends on several things.
- The amount of phytate, oxalate, and magnesium in a meal and a low protein
intake-- decreases absorption.
- The amount of sodium chloride, phosphates, and protein in the total diet--
increases excretion?
- The amount of phosphorus-- increases absorption.
In order for a diet to provide adequate calcium, the diet has to increase
absorption and decrease urinary loss. This make sense?
Calcium is absorbed more efficiently from individuals who have adapted to a
low calcium diet.
In a normal protein diet, calcium balance depends on the *type* of protein
and phosphorus consumed. The phosphorus in soft drinks (as phosphate) may
increase calcium loss while the type found in red meat may not. Milk and
other proteins which are high in phosphorus did not cause calcium loss in
controlled studies in humans.
Vitamin D is necessary for the absorption of calcium.
Vitamins A and C enhance transport of calcium through cell membrane.
Calcium aids in the absorption of B12.
Some diuretics may increase calcium excretion
Now that you are totally confused here are my recommendations for getting
adequate calcium.
--Consume neither a high or low protein diet.
--Eat generous amounts of high calcium vegetables and grains
--Reduce the amount of high oxalate foods you eat.
--Do not include wheat bran, millet, or your magnesium supplement in a meal
that contains calcium rich foods.
--Avoid salted (sodium chloride) foods.
--Avoid carbonated drinks.
--Your calcium and magnesium supplements should be taken as malates or
citrates.
Vegetables that contain oxalate and phytate are not good calcium sources.
High oxalate vegetables include: Swiss chard, beet greens, and spinach.
The only phytate source that reduces calcium absorption are wheat bran and
millet so don't worry about other whole grains.
<Calcium is probably one of the most abundant minerals in a healthy diet of
grains and vegetables.>
"Foods of plant origin are not particularly good sources of calcium." (Nutr
Res Rev (1996), 9, 295-324.)
Unless they are fortified as soymilk and some cold cereals and orange juice.
Besides, most people do not eat a healthy diet.
<Again, need the lower stomach acid to fully benefit from the calcium in the
food.>
Most calcium is absorbed from the small intestine and maybe the colon so the
amount of acid in the stomach is not going to matter. Stomach acid is only
needed when you are talking about calcium *supplements*. Certain supplements
need high acid (not low) to dissolve in the stomach.
<de...@earthlink.net>
<<What vegetables have calcium???>>
Good sources of calcium include:
Figs dried 10 figs 269 mg
Tofu, firm 1/2 cup 258 mg
Yogurt 1/2 cup 207 mg
Salmon with bones 3 oz 200 mg
Mustard greens 1/2 cup 183 mg
Sardines 4 fish 182 mg
Blackstrap molasses 1 tablespoon 172 mg
Collards 1/2 cup 152 mg
Milk 1/2 cup 151 mg
OJ calcium fortified 1/2 cup 150 mg
Amaranth 1/2 cup (140 mg)
Kale 1/2 cup 134 mg
Edamame 1/2 cup 130 mg
Pike 3 oz 120 mg
Soybean nuts roasted 1/2 cup 119 mg
Perch 3 oz 117 mg
Okra 1/2 cup 92 mg
Broccoli 1/2 cup 88 mg
almonds 1 ounce 80 mg
Tempeh 1/2 cup 77 mg
Turnips greens 1/2 cup 75 mg
Dandelion greens 1/2 cup 73 mg
Tahini 1 ounce 64 mg
Other very good sources
cornmeal flour (440 mg per 1 cup flour)
soybean flour (241 mg per 1 cup defatted flour)
Maureen in Mukileo
Joan @ home
from the library that lists all these things--or
try the web. Vegetatian societies have some good
pages. Nuts and salmon with the bones in are good
sources, sardines. I forget now, I just put them
into my diet when I stopped drinking milk.
HTH
Joan @ home
de...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> >
> >Milk and dairy is not a good source of Ca. The protein in the milk
> >will actually cause the body to lose more calcium than the milk
> >povides. Calcium is probably one of the most abundant minerals in a
> >healthy diet of grains and vegetables. Again, need the lower stomach
> >acid to fully benefit from the calcium in the food.
> >
>
> What vegetables have calcium???
Mark Gold
> >Milk and dairy is not a good source of Ca. The protein in the milk
> >will actually cause the body to lose more calcium than the milk
> >povides. Calcium is probably one of the most abundant minerals in a
> >healthy diet of grains and vegetables. Again, need the lower stomach
> >acid to fully benefit from the calcium in the food.
> >
>
> What vegetables have calcium???
Hi!
Collard greens are one of the best vegetable sources. Others include (but
are not limited to kale, turnip greens and rutabagas. I believe it is a
good idea to eat the one of the cooked greens (above) once per day. Sea
vegetables often may very high levels of calcium -- wakame, hijiki, kombu,
dulse, agar agar, etc. Legumes such as garbanzo beans (chickpeas) and
black beans have high levels of calcium. (See the *bottom* of
http://www.soyinfo.com/legumes.shtml for bean cooking suggestions.)
I think that many people can benefit from eliminating or cutting back on
dairy and going with vegetable sources (and no, I'm not a vegetarian).
Best Wishes,
- Mark
mg...@tiac.net
CFS/FMS Holistic Resource Center & Mailing List
http://www.HolisticMed.com/cfs/
BARBRK
Deirdre
>
> I thought for years I was lactose intolerant come to find out that it
> was the protein I drink Organic Milk
Hi, Anita:
What's organic milk?
> no fat of course
Why no fat?
> but only small
> amounts now so it keeps my GI tract calm
> I probably don't drink less
> than a 1/2 cup a day..
I didn't drink *any* milk or eat *any* dairy - only soy milk and tofu
for many, many fibro-ridden years. After I began to take MSM and
vitamin C last August (1999) I developed a tremendous hunger/craving for
milk, whole milk, and have drunk at least two gallon jugs per week since
then.
> I also watch foods that have milk additives in it
> as well as ice cream, cheese, etc etc...It's the same with eggs and the
> same with meats..it's the perservatives as well as the hormones and
> anitbiotics they feed the animals...I am a classic example of
> environemental allergies..
What do you eat? Do you have a source of ssimilable protein?
> I would suggest getting a allergy test on milk
> you might find the same results...
My last round of allergy testing showed I was allergic to grass and
animal dander and that was pretty well it. I don't have any allergies
of which I am aware.
>
> May Angels Watch Over You!!
> Anita "Spirit of the Mountain"
Mrs Magoo
--
What I give form to in daylight is only one per cent
of what I have seen in darkness.
- M. C. Escher
Deirdre
>
> This is a long post but it corrects an error I hear around AMF a lot. A list
> of calcium-rich foods can be found at the end.
> Maureen in Mukilteo
>
> Someone said:
>
> This is only a theory and a controversial one at that.
I'm so glad you said that - I just came across this thread and was
shocked to see all the anti-milk stuff, pardon me, opinion.
>
> "The generalization that 'protein' causes calcium loss or may be a risk
> factor for osteoporosis without specifying the type and source of protein is
> therefore incorrect." (J Nutr 1988; 118:657-60)
>
> High protein intake is strongly suspected of increasing calcium excretion
> from the kidneys but many researchers disagree with this idea.
I eat mostly protein but not high volume because I don't eat all that
much in total. But I think the amount of milk I drink just
instinctively is probably very good.
> In any event,
> the amount of calcium lost or gained from one glass of milk cannot be
> calculated without knowing the protein and calcium content of the whole diet
> for the whole day.
I take at least one Thorne Citramins II every day. At least 2 gallons
of whole homo milk per week. And lots of chicken and beef. I know a
lot of people would say no to red meat - I also eat pork, and that
reminds me that people have been arguing about diet for millenia...
>
> One oft quoted researcher estimated that for every 50 grams of protein
> consumed, another 60 mg of calcium is lost in the urine. (One reason I am
> not too hot on the Zone diet!)
I sure wouldn't agree with that - not if metabolism is working right.
>
> However, this research was done using only purified proteins in a controlled
> diet for a short time. Some studies that have tried to measure the same
> effect using whole proteins and a normal diet did not find a calcium loss.
I realize that the old standard for protein in grams per day was/is
considered too high. I can't quite remember - it's now supposed to be
60 g for men and 50 for women or what is it? Anyway that would be
measured how?
> The jury is still out and nothing definite can be said.
I agree with that - and nothing *should* be said then. I get really
upset when I see statements like that - they are so unspecific, too.
Under what conditions, and for what person and sick or well, or what?
It's very annoying to hear advice that's phrased as though it applies to
everyone.
>
> Theoretically it works this way:
>
> How much calcium is present in the body depends on several things.
> - The amount of phytate, oxalate, and magnesium in a meal and a low protein
> intake-- decreases absorption.
> - The amount of sodium chloride, phosphates, and protein in the total diet--
> increases excretion?
> - The amount of phosphorus-- increases absorption.
Mineral losses in urine are thought of as absolute losses but I'm not
satisfied that they are necessarily that. At least if they're excreted
they're not developing into stones. And would it not depend on their
origin? From an excess in diet, or an *unutilized* dietary intake?
They're not necessarily from bones. But why wouldn't one just up
vitamin D etc to ensure that they would make contribution to bone
tissue?
>
> In order for a diet to provide adequate calcium, the diet has to increase
> absorption and decrease urinary loss. This make sense?
Yes, as long as the urinary "loss" really is a loss. I suppose it could
be needed for structural repair but not utilized because one needs
enough of this and that to ensure its utilization. If those things
aren't present then I suppose it's really best if it's excreted.
Or am I being ridiculous here?
> Calcium is absorbed more efficiently from individuals who have adapted to a
> low calcium diet.
That would be me - no milk or dairy and no supplements either for years
and years. And only *some* vegetables. At times. The only mineral
supplement I ever found that actually seemed to work - instantly, too,
warming and making me feel instantly better - was a vegetable sourced
powder. I haven't been able to find it anywhere since donkey's ages
ago.
>
> In a normal protein diet, calcium balance depends on the *type* of protein
> and phosphorus consumed. The phosphorus in soft drinks (as phosphate) may
> increase calcium loss while the type found in red meat may not.
Oh, goody. Well, the soft drink craving vanished with the coming of
winter. ???
> Milk and other proteins which are high in phosphorus did not cause calcium loss in
> controlled studies in humans.
Glad to hear that too because I'm going through a lot of it. On the
Magoo Plan.
>
> Vitamin D is necessary for the absorption of calcium.
Taking it.
> Vitamins A and C enhance transport of calcium through cell membrane.
Right. And I suppose MSM isn't hurting either.
> Calcium aids in the absorption of B12.
Well, no wonder I'm guzzling it up at such a great rate.
> Some diuretics may increase calcium excretion
Speaking of diuretics, I usually use vitamin C where other people might
take a diuretic. It's really funny though. With milk neither the high
MSM nor the high C is causing bowel loosening and I suppose that's
because of the milk. ???
>
> Now that you are totally confused here are my recommendations for getting
> adequate calcium.
>
> --Consume neither a high or low protein diet.
Well, I'm trying to eat everything I can though almost no complex carbs
except Michelina's to which I'm addicted (it's the sauce), so I just
have to say okay and hope for the best here.
> --Eat generous amounts of high calcium vegetables and grains
Generous amounts is tough, have to admit.
> --Reduce the amount of high oxalate foods you eat.
Oxalate - spinach?
> --Do not include wheat bran, millet, or your magnesium supplement in a meal
> that contains calcium rich foods.
What about Citramins II? And does that apply when you're taking a
stomach acidifier?
> --Avoid salted (sodium chloride) foods.
Crikey. I might as well quit eating.
> --Avoid carbonated drinks.
I'm doing that sort of by default.
> --Your calcium and magnesium supplements should be taken as malates or
> citrates.
Mine are citrates. I think. I can't read the labels any more.
>
> Vegetables that contain oxalate and phytate are not good calcium sources.
> High oxalate vegetables include: Swiss chard, beet greens, and spinach.
Moan.
> The only phytate source that reduces calcium absorption are wheat bran and
> millet so don't worry about other whole grains.
So if the wheat doesn't have bran (as in durum pasta) it's alright? I
don't eat it in any great quantity. It's just the frozen entree that's
quick when I go into starvation mode very suddenly.
>
> <Calcium is probably one of the most abundant minerals in a healthy diet of
> grains and vegetables.>
Okay, the vegetables again. But I still don't hold with a diet high in
carbs. I just indulge myself that tiny little bit every so often, and
not every day, either.
>
> "Foods of plant origin are not particularly good sources of calcium." (Nutr
> Res Rev (1996), 9, 295-324.)
> Unless they are fortified as soymilk and some cold cereals and orange juice.
> Besides, most people do not eat a healthy diet.
>
> <Again, need the lower stomach acid to fully benefit from the calcium in the
> food.>
Maureen, this is *so* important and I just don't know how it's possible
to pursuade people that they don't have hyperacidity but just mis-timed
secretions that cause them a lot of trouble because their stomachs are
all chewed up by undigested food.
>
> Most calcium is absorbed from the small intestine and maybe the colon so the
> amount of acid in the stomach is not going to matter.
Except that the calcium content isn't liberated from food if there's
little or no stomach acid.
> Stomach acid is only
> needed when you are talking about calcium *supplements*.
I really am not confident of that.
> Certain supplements
> need high acid (not low) to dissolve in the stomach.
High acid is necessary for the digestion of proteins too. Why not just
take the acidifiers and be done with it?
>
> <de...@earthlink.net>
> <<What vegetables have calcium???>>
>
> Good sources of calcium include:
>
> Figs dried 10 figs 269 mg
> Tofu, firm 1/2 cup 258 mg
Again, there's a real question as to whether it's broken down in the
stomach. I finally developed a real reaction to tofu. BION.
> Yogurt 1/2 cup 207 mg
That's a really good source. But again, digestion begins in the mouth
and continues in the stomach only if the secretions are there. I don't
think they're there for us.
> Salmon with bones 3 oz 200 mg
That's canned salmon tossed into a salad, which I find really good.
> Mustard greens 1/2 cup 183 mg
Haven't seen them for ages.
> Sardines 4 fish 182 mg
Okay, that's right, and you can put a whole can in a salad with a splash
of soy and a little balsamic vinegar or black tso (Chinese black
vinegar) and it's really really good. A whole can of plain sardines.
> Blackstrap molasses 1 tablespoon 172 mg
Hard to find a place for it in a low carb diet ???
> Collards 1/2 cup 152 mg
No collards up here... at least I haven't seen them. We have kale... ?
> Milk 1/2 cup 151 mg
Obviously I get a lot of calcium and whatever else is in milk ??
> OJ calcium fortified 1/2 cup 150 mg
Hmm. Didn't know about that one. That would supply some fructose too.
> Amaranth 1/2 cup (140 mg)
I wouldn't bother and wouldn't expect to get much good from it.
> Kale 1/2 cup 134 mg
Well, there you go. I'd just have to juice it.
> Edamame 1/2 cup 130 mg
What's that?
> Pike 3 oz 120 mg
Don't think we get any in stores
> Soybean nuts roasted 1/2 cup 119 mg
I'd be asking to be killed if I tried to eat them. Crohn's is pretty
unforgiving. I can eat peanuts and pecans and walnuts though.
> Perch 3 oz 117 mg
Not common here.
> Okra 1/2 cup 92 mg
We can get it canned or frozen
> Broccoli 1/2 cup 88 mg
> almonds 1 ounce 80 mg
> Tempeh 1/2 cup 77 mg
Don't know what that is. I ought to but I don't.
> Turnips greens 1/2 cup 75 mg
That's encouraging.
> Dandelion greens 1/2 cup 73 mg
Now dandelion greens yes.
> Tahini 1 ounce 64 mg
>
> Other very good sources
> cornmeal flour (440 mg per 1 cup flour)
Is this processed or not?
> soybean flour (241 mg per 1 cup defatted flour)
Can't do anymore. I'm just relying on the Thorne Citramins II
>
> Maureen in Mukileo
All this is great but not very practical for people with digestive
problems - IMO. The supplements are easier because so much food gives
such problems. And one can't eat a large volume of food. That's the
main difficulty as far as I can see.
I really have to rely on concentrated food supplements to get through.
Cooking is a real problem too. I just try to get as many greens as
possible in a salad format.