FYI:EGG SUCKING WEAZELS! LOOOONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shan Leslie
group over the last 6 - 9 months due to the struggles of a small core
group of 'old timers' against the slick scam artists, bunko tricks and
spam spreading maggots targeting AMF among other news groups for
financial gain.
A few people will support and defend the hucksters who try to prevail
here..
Others want all the flaming to stop and don't care who is involved. They
just want to stick their heads in the sand and let the storm roll by.
And then there are the scammers who will in turn attack and abuse the
very people who are trying to expose their lies and hypocrisy here and
try to get the news group to believe that they are 'control freaks' who
wish to run this news group.
Let me tell you all something....I have NO wish to control or run
ANYTHING..except my own life. But I get sick and tired of seeing people
defending these bunko artists and con- men/women who try to suck the
life out of this group. I'm tired of getting flamed by the weirdos and
freaks who abuse this ng in the name of insanity and deviousness to turn
a buck!
Therefore..I spent alot of time and effort to show this news group just
a little bit about ONE of these scammers who continually surfaces
here..to sell- berate and abuse.
I asked myself if this was worth the time I spend digging up this
information. I wondered if ANYBODY would even care, with the exception
of a small loyal group, who I know do care what happens here. Am I
wasting my time posting this here..? I don't know.
What I do know is this is soild evidence that this man 'appears' to be
making a living off alot of sick people in various health related ways.
I'm talking about Capt. David 'Licorice' Williams, the flim flam man.
This guy surfaces here on a regular basis to hawk his wares. What is
note worthy to me..is he leaves a pretty interesting and revealing trail
throughout cyberspace, as he wends his way peddling his snake oil
remedies , on web pages or directly to health related news groups just
like ours.
I also noticed David Williams is adept at changing the presentation
depending on who is audience is....but trys to cleverly hide his real
name under assorted alias'es and mailing addresses.
He also promotes
NET WORK MARKETING...
no big SURPRISE!
snip..<<Spare-Time MLM but Full-Time INCOME! more options
Author: Jean L.
SanfordEmail:js...@worldnet.att.netDate:1998/05/15Forums:alt.business.multi-level.exceltel
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CONFESSIONS of aNetwork Marketing
Millionaire
Dale Calvert - The Millionaire -
and a 15 yr MLM Veteran, writes:
How would YOU like to develop a network marketing organization of 61,307
distributors and over 80 Million $$$ in sales?? YOU CAN !!>>snip
Well well..so much for his altruistic claims!!
If you notice the addy ABOVE & BELOW you'll see he used the same one
when he posted here a short time back as 'Jean Sanford' but forgot and
signed it 'david'.
snip..<<Jean L.
SanfordEmail:js...@worldnet.att.net:1998/01/24Forums:alt.med.fibromyalgia
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Over the past few months, I have corresponded with quite a few of you
via
e-mail regarding Fibromyalgia. Many of you have requested information
about the friends I have that have Fibromyalgia. Some of you have even
sent me your regular mail (snail mail) address so that I could send you
information.
For those of you that haven't written...let me update you. I have 5
friends that have Fibromyalgia. It is through these friends that I found
out about Fibromyalgia. It is through a network of support groups and
word-of-mouth that we all found out about herbal supplements that were
helping people with Fibromyalgia. As a matter of fact, my friends are
now symptom-free from the pain of Fibromyalgia; except for one - she
started in November, 1997 and is well on her way to wholeness again. I
was so excited about the results that my friends were having, that I
thought I should tell others about it! So I tried to...again and again
.. But after a few months, I came to the conclusion that a lot of the
people who frequent these bulletin boards really DO NOT want help. They
really DO NOT care to find out about what is helping other people. All
they want to do is bitch and complain and MOAN about how hard life is.
They want to talk about how no one cares and how much they hurt. People
want to get sympathy, NOT HELP.
Well... I don't have the time, nor the energy to try and help people
that really would rather bitch and complain about what life has dealt
them. You DO NOT WANT help! DO NOT E-MAIL ME if you just want to use my
time and use me or other people. I'm tired of people who just want to
sit back and have people feel sorry for them. I DO NOT feel sorry for
ANYONE that will not help themselves FIRST! For those of you who really
do want help, my advise is to try support groups in your local area. The
people on this board just want to bitch and complain. Please don't let
them lead you on and think that they care about helping you. Because
they just want people to complain to. Sorry for the long post ... I'm
outta here..... David>>
( Yeah Right!! LOL!!)
Dave Williams uses the alias ' David L. Smith' to peddle weight loss:
snip,,<<HOLIDAY WEIGHT GAIN? LOSE IT!!!!!!!! more options
Author: David L.
SmithEmail:Dad2...@juno.comDate:1997/12/31Forums:nc.charlotte.forsale,
misc.forsale more headers
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David L. Smith posted the following article in the For Sale Forum
http://www.he.net/~brumley/boards/forsaleboard.html Dated : December 31,
1997 at 19:42:51
Subject: HOLIDAY WEIGHT GAIN? LOSE IT!!!!!!!!
http://www.he.net/~brumley/boards/forsalemessages/2972.html E-MAIL FOR
INFO ON WEIGHTLOSS! All-natural. Many health benefits +
weight-loss!>>snip
How do I know it's David...???
Please check the following addys on this next one..and compare both
emails..
snip,,<<Herbal Alternative - Safe, Proven, & Effective against
ARTHRITIS more
options
Author: Jean L.
SanfordEmail:js...@worldnet.att.netDate:1997/11/30Forums:misc.health.arthritis
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I recently talked to yet another person who has had tremendous relief
from Arthritis by taking herbal supplements. I have been taking the same
thing for almost a year now.
Here is my story. I have a hair-line crack in my left knee due to
Osgood-Slater's disease, developed when I was 13 or 14 yrs. old. The
knee surgeons could promise no relief. For years, I lived with the pain.
When I turned 30, there would be days when I was taking 8-10 extra
strength Tylenol trying to dull the pain. But the pain NEVER went away!
In January, 1997 I was introduced to a herbal supplement. By this time,
the extra strength Tylenol had stopped working - even when I took up to
12 in one day! After 2 weeks f taking the supplement - the pain that I
had endured for more than 20 years HAD DISAPPEARED! Did I become a
believer? Of course! Was my case an isolated incident? Since January, I
have talked to more than 37 people who have had the same - or better -
results! It works!
Because it worked so well for me, I'll share it with you!
Just e-mail me at Dad2...@juno.com>>
He is David L. Smith, Jean L Sanford and Dad2...@juno.com...all rolled
into one snake oil salsman...!!!!!!! LOL!!.
BTW..he picked the wrong disease..
( ever notice how every ad for 'cures' he either knows someone or has it
himself with all recieving 'MIRACULOUS CURES??!!') when he picked Osgood
Schlatter because this is a predominately CHILDHOOD ailment..hahahah!!
Better luck NEXT time..david!!!
snip..<<OSGOOD-SCHLATTER DISEASE(Osteochondrosis) OSGOOD-SCHLATTER
DISEASE
(Osteochondrosis)
GENERAL INFORMATION
DESCRIPTION
Osgood-Schlatter disease is a temporary condition of the leg at the
knee, characterized by swelling, tenderness, and pain. The tibial
tubercle, a prominence just below the knee cap attached to a large thigh
muscle connecting the bone of the upper leg (femur) to the large bone in
the lower leg (tibia), is involved. This disorder often affects both
knees. Osgood-Schlatter disease is most likely to affect adolescents. It
is uncommon after age 16...From the Complete Guide to Pediatric
Symptoms, Illness & Medications by
H. Winter Griffith, M.D. © 1989 The Putnam Berkley Group, Inc.;
electronic rights by Medical Data Exchange>
BTW..david couldn't even spell this disease correctly that he's
supposely had all his life..
His claims cover a wide array of disease cures..including FIBRO - CFS -
AIDS/HIV - ATHRITIS -WEIGHT LOSS and ADD/ADHD...ect.
snip..<<Scientist writings on antioxidant. more options
Author: John
PalmerEmail:jpal...@ix.netcom.comDate:1997/12/08Forums:alt.support.attn-deficit
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On 6 Dec 1997 14:48:25 GMT, "Jean L. Sanford" <js...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
I prefer to keep things really simple by asking >myself 2 questions:
Does it work really well in dealing with ADD/ADHD?
And the answer is "no, it doesn't. There is absolutely no evidence
worthy of mention that it does, and there is no reasonable theory why it
should."
Are there any harmful side-effects or
adverse > results to taking it?
And the answer is "yes, if effective treatment
is foregone due to the pursuit of worthless treatment." The antioxidant
that I am familiar with, really works >well in helping children and
adults that have >ADD/ADHD. Then you *DO* have a study showing
this, right? Sure you do.
Post a synopsis of the results. . .
There are also no side-effects -
after all, it is all-natural.
And as everyone knows, curare has no side
effects; it is, after all, all-natural. Estrogen has no side effects; it
is, after all, all-natural. Aspirin has no side effects; it is, after
all, all-natural.
Just curious: Are you actually this stupid, or
are you just putting on an act?
Sometimes it is easy to get caught up in this Dr. >says such and such,
this research claims etc, this study shows... All I >really care
about is:
Well this has been long and drawn out..but some of the people on this
news group need a wake up call..concerning defending and supporting
people like david who come here as wolves dressed up in sheeps
clothing..actually I take that back..I DON'T want to insult EITHER sheep
OR wolves!!
But you get my drift.
Did I dig all this up only to have half of you scoff and tell me never
mind..?? I hope not..but ask yourself how many times you've REALLY
investigated these guys..before you start flaming me for trying to point
them out.
And yeah..I'll get plenty of flack from david over this..and from people
like him..but it was worth it if ONE newbie understands why all the
OLDTIMERS here are always harping on certain disreputable people popping
up here.
Food for thought.
BTW...IS THIS 'OUR' DAVE THE FLIM FLAM MAN...????
Snip...<<<Recently we've seen a proliferation of slick, four-color
mini-magazines extolling various individuals as health gurus. "Dr. David
Williams" once claimed merely to be "leading the worldwide search for
natural remedies." Since then he has humbly proclaimed himself to be
"America's #1 expert in natural healing" and "the 'Indiana Jones' of
natural medicine." Back when he was "leading the world wide search"
he was pictured in a library. After proclaiming himself "#1 expert"
he pictured himself in a white coat, holding a stethoscope, surrounded
by the trappings of medicine. Williams has a celebrity picture of
himself standing next to 60 Minutes reporter Mike Wallace who is
publicizing shark cartilage as a cancer cure. Who is this funny guy?
Williams is a chiropractor who apparently prefers publishing
medicine-bashing, health-hype to popping spines. Williams has been
writing and publishing his personal newsletter Alternatives "For the
Health Conscious Individual" since 1989. I n 1993, he went slick with "a
special supplement to Alternatives, dubbed Breakthroughs in Healing (is
this guy original, or what?!) Williams claims to have 130,000 readers
across America. (p.15) Our reading of his mini-magazines leads to
the conclusion that "#1 expert" Williams merely reiterates the same
unsubstantiated claims for health food products that have been being
made for many years. It seems like his "research" has been simply
reading health foods propaganda. Williams proclaims "the secret of the
astonishing new all-natural cancer cure!" "The secret of the
incredible new heart protection vitamin!" "The secret of the
remarkable ultratrace mineral that beats chronic arthritis!" "The
secret of nature's sure-fire cure for high cholesterol!" "The secret
of the remarkable 29 cent herb that helps revitalize your immune
system!" "The little known amino acid that reverses sexual impotence
like magic!" (Gee, Dave, these sound terrific!) "Doctor" Williams
also warns his readers about misinformation being foisted on us by the
bad old "medical monopoly." Williams tells readers not to use sunscreen,
rather, rub on "a simple solution of vitamin C and water." "Beware
of the aspirin a day craze"; if you want to "achieve the same anti-blood
clotting results as aspirin, take bromelain, an all natural extract of
pineapples."
According to the Lawrence Review of Natural Products (7/93), bromelain
is a proteolytic enzyme used to tenderize meat. Medically, it has been
used in burn injury debridement and to reduce soft tissue inflammation
and irritation. The pharmacologic effects of bromelain are caused by
an enhancement of serum fibrinolytic activity and inhibition of
fibrinogen synthesis. It lowers kininogen and bradykinin serum tissue
levels and has an influence on prostaglandin synthesis. Since
bromelain is absorbed unchanged from the intestine at a rate of about
40%, it may have some of the benefits of aspirin, which also increases
fibrinolytic activity and influences prostaglandin synthesis.
However, aspirin has an experimental research record of effectiveness
that bromelain does not. Williams has no experimental basis for his
assertion that bromelain has the same anti-clotting features and to
imply that it is preferable.
Despite Williams' overconfident proclamations, the following weasel
words* appear inside the front cover:
The approaches described in this special report are not offered as
cures, prescriptions, diagnoses or a means of diagnosis to different
conditions... The author or publisher assume no responsibility in the
correct or incorrect use of this information and no attempt should be
made to use any of this information as a form of treatment without the
approval and guidance of your doctor.
Thus, Williams taunts his readers with advice that they are warned not
to apply!
*"From the weasel's habit of sucking the contents out of an egg while
leaving the shell superficially intact: a word used in order to evade or
retreat from a direct or forthright statement or position" (Webster's
New Collegiate Dictionary>>
BTW..for those interested in licorice and possible health related
treatments..there's plenty of info on the web..just put in 'licorice
root' and take your pick.
We don't need people coming here trying to sell us something. We're all
adults and perfectly capable of finding these things our self..or
sharing what works with others without browbeating storm trooper tactics
and the hard sell shell game.
Shan :-)
Who is finished now and stepping down off her soap box..going to drink a
much longed for and needed latte now...
"When choosing between two evils I always like to take the one I've
never tried before"
Mae West
Click here for Troll/Spam tension release
http://members.tripod.com/~webtv6/scream.wav
Cathy Wilheim
would like to rid the news group of such people, but I know that is
impossible as long as we want to maintain a free and open exchange of
information. The price of that freedom is vigilance against the scam and
spam artists.
Please don't give up.
Cathy in Wichita
Shan Leslie wrote in message
<18371-36...@newsd-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Kathy
for us and I appreciate it.
Kathy in Galveston
Priestess
typing!) all this info. We all *knew* the L-man was a #$@, but YOU have
provided the solid proof!
--
Jean
ICQ# 19761807
xjeah...@mindspring.com remove the x blah blah
Breathe life into this feeble heart
Lift this mortal veil of fear
Take these crumbled hopes, etched with tears
We'll rise above these earthly cares
Cast your eyes on the ocean
Cast your soul on the sea
When the darK night seems endless
Please remember me
-- Loreena McKennitt
Dixon2rl
nothing lower than an idiot who preys on the ill and the elderly. Thanks
Katroberts
you Shan for going to all that trouble!
Kathy in Sacto
Roanna1
>Kathy in Sacto
I'm also in Sacramento. Did you about fall apart today?
Roanna
RickMo3
ANYTHING..except my own life. But I get sick and tired of seeing people
defending these bunko artists and con- men/women who try to suck the
life out of this group. I'm tired of getting flamed by the weirdos and
freaks who abuse this ng in the name of insanity and deviousness to turn
a buck! >>
I hope people took the time to really read and understand just what Shan went
thru for all of us.
To be perfectly honest, Shan has a lot more honor and stick-tuit-iveness than I
do anymore to go thru all the machinations she and a few others of the the
oldies-but-goodies here do to protect and inform members of the wierdos and
trolls that so often seem to stop by here in the last few months.
I personally can't abide it anymore and rarely visit except to check in and see
how some of my old friends are doing. There are so many good and honest people
here who deserve a place where they can go for information, some humor and
support. Instead, this has turned into a trolling spot for some of the most
obnoxious people I've ever run into!
Between Dave, Swisstime, Gabsol, Matron, Birdie ad infinitum I'm just plumb
tuckered out from fighting.
I've actually seen people make up alter egos and come here as someone else to
defend his own spamming, trollish activities. How sick is that? Pretty damn
sick...
And yet, there are those who defend and actually attack the good guys when they
haven't a clue as to what the hell is really going on. No matter what someone
says, there always seems to be someone ready to attack on topics they clearly
know "Nothing" about. ie -dmjudge on Dot... It's positively nauseating.
In all my time here, I've never seen Dot, Fran, Shan (and many others for that
matter) ever attack someone who didn't deserve it.
While I wish you all well--I really must take a long hike. It's really too
painful to see the truly sensitive and caring people being bombarded by idiots
while newbies are forced to try to come in new and decide who are "the good
guys"
In case you're interested, I believe Shan made the point far batter than
anyone..
Moe
******Half Full, Half M.T.******
Moe
HRTLDY
Thank you for opening his pandora box. The more we are informed the better we
can be prepared. Thank you.
Wishing you rainbows,
Connie
Angloanne
It must have taken you an age to do this and there is so much information
there about Capt. Dave, he may be the first professional spammer/troller !
Great work
Love
Anne (UK)
Shan Leslie
SamL99 posted in defence of Capt David Williams here..and IS'NT it
INTERESTING he's been caught doing the same thing over at CFS..!!
Jeez..will the REAL capt Dave ( alias
1) Jeans Sanford
2) dad2jane
3) David L. Smith-SamL.99..) ..PUL-EEEEZE stand up!! LOL!!!!
<<Author: SamL99Email:sam...@aol.comDate:1998/10/26Forums:alt.med.cfs
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wow, Gregg! first, i resent being called a liar and having my identy
challenged. i posted to this group many years ago under difference
server and never once got called a liar.
secondly, you should examine the site. it says nothing about what you
say it does. and everything the man says is backed by a link to a
medical abstract.
all he's saying is that hhv6 has been found to re-infect from pockets in
the gums of people with gum disease. i have had perdontal problems for
10 years and cfs for the same lenght of time so i though the stuff was
very interesting form the point of view of re-activated viral
infections.
i posted some of this guys stuff on the fm goups and many over there did
the same thing you are doing. came out on the attack with guns balzing
without having read a word of what the guy has on the web. man this guy
must have really done something awful for you to blast him without first
checking out what he is saying.
SamL99 wrote:
>> anybody seen this site?
>> http://www.serve.com/licorice/gumdisease.
Gregg wrote:
>Am I the the only one who can tell that this is spam? >Captain Dave
Williams is trying to push his licorice >under a new handle. If you
doubt that he is spamming >then consider some of his other sales pitches
are >that licorice stops smoking, cures hepatitis, cures >crohnes
disease, and enhances the taste of beer.<
Gosh..it just gets better and better..don't it folks!!???????
ROFLMAO at dave's pitiful attempts to move that thar LICORICE!!
Shan :-)
Sully&Lynn
this thread already! Can you send it to me? I know you are a valuable
person when it comes to sharing your info. with us. I`d appreciate it a
lot...TIA<LYNN
Summer Breeze
idea how badly
we could've hurt ourselves involving ourselves with that licorice.
Thanks for the tremendous amount of work. It is greatly appreciately by
all.
Cheers, Summer
kot...@webtv.net
gentle hugs,
kim
TCrab13
>From: aval...@webtv.net (Shan Leslie)
>Alot of questions, flame wars and hostilies, have erupted on this news
>group over the last 6 - 9 months due to the struggles of a small core
>group of 'old timers' against the slick scam artists, bunko tricks and
>spam spreading maggots targeting AMF among other news groups for
>financial gain.
>A few people will support and defend the hucksters who try to prevail
>here..
>Others want all the flaming to stop and don't care who is involved.
Shan,
Applaud, applaud, BRAVO BRAVO......You should even take a standing ovation.
This was a great post and I know a lot of work went into it.
Wish I would have had the smarts to do it myself!!!! You are to be commended
on the wonderful research that you did!!!!! I'm glad to be part of your
FMily......
Hey, go ahead and have several lattes!!! They are on the house!!!!
Great job!!!
Teresa
fmc...@my-dejanews.com
aval...@webtv.net (Shan Leslie) wrote:
>
> SamL99 posted in defence of Capt David Williams here..and IS'NT it
> INTERESTING he's been caught doing the same thing over at CFS..!!
>
> Jeez..will the REAL capt Dave ( alias
> 1) Jeans Sanford
> 2) dad2jane
> 3) David L. Smith-SamL.99..) ..PUL-EEEEZE stand up!! LOL!!!!
>
> more headers
> =A0author=A0profile
> view=A0thread
> never tried before"
>
> Mae West
> Click here for Troll/Spam tension release
> http://members.tripod.com/~webtv6/scream.wav
>
>
<<<man this guy must have really done something awful for you to blast him
without first checking out what he is saying.>>>
I think that about says it all!! "This guy must have really done something
awful..."--fran
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
d...@netradiomail.com
> BTW...IS THIS 'OUR' DAVE THE FLIM FLAM MAN...????
No.
> Snip...<<<Recently we've seen a proliferation of slick, four-color
> mini-magazines extolling various individuals as health gurus. "Dr. David
> Williams"...
I looked into this before Shan the oldtimer was here, Dr. David Williams
isn't David Williams of licorice fame unless he can be in two places at once.
The responsible thing for Shan to do now is admit her error and apologize,
but I won't hold my breath. The mob rule Shan has tried so hard to institute
here has now become lynch mob rule, so I don't expect sanity to prevail.
David Williams isn't an uncommon name, so making a public post alleging
that two of them are the same person without any further evidence beyond
the name is irresponsible, even by Shan's standard. The name Dr. David
Williams isn't that uncommon either, it's also the name of one of the
space shuttle astronauts. On the same evidential base and reasoning power
Shan has just used I could equally make the case that:
a) One of the astronauts also scams the sick, and/or
b) There's a licorice salesman in space
Neither of which are likely to be any more factual than Shan's defective work.
> "When choosing between two evils I always like to take the one I've
> never tried before"
Well, trying to out someone on the flimsiest of evidence is an evil
that you probably shouldn't choose again. -g
Love light laughter... and a cure in our lifetime
kean
poster?
Maureen in Mukilteo
>I looked into this before Shan the oldtimer was here, Dr. David
Williams
>isn't David Williams of licorice fame unless he can be in two places at
once.
>The responsible thing for Shan to do now is admit her error and
apologize,
>but I won't hold my breath. The mob rule Shan has tried so hard to
institute
>here has now become lynch mob rule, so I don't expect sanity to
prevail.
>
>David Williams isn't an uncommon name, so making a public post alleging
>that two of them are the same person without any further evidence
beyond
>the name is irresponsible, even by Shan's standard. The name Dr. David
>Williams isn't that uncommon either, it's also the name of one of the
>space shuttle astronauts. On the same evidential base and reasoning
power
>Shan has just used I could equally make the case that:
>a) One of the astronauts also scams the sick, and/or
>b) There's a licorice salesman in space
>Neither of which are likely to be any more factual than Shan's
defective work.
>
>> "When choosing between two evils I always like to take the one I've
>> never tried before"
>
Jo
Does the name Gary O ring a bell
Jo
Mishu Reza wrote in message <725s4k$d1g$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net>...
>
>kean <ke...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:7257ls$m...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com...
>>Who is "g" or d...@netradiomail.com ? Can anyone put a name to this
>>poster?
>>
>>Maureen in Mukilteo
>
>Maureen--he's that "love, light, laughter" guy who has a "personal problem"
>with Shan. I guess he doesn't want to be known by a name...kind of like
>that 'formerly known as Prince' fella, eh? For the life of me I can't
>figure it out--she posts, he goes ballistic. Maybe he asked her out in
>Junior High and she turned him down, and he's still holding the grudge.
Who
>knows???? You could advocate eating blended frogs or practicing satanism,
>he won't say a word. She says the sky is blue, he is on her like a cheap
>suit saying that she is misrepresenting the sky. Strange are the ways of
>this world. Cheers, M.
>
>
>
Angloanne
d...@netradiomail.com wrote in message <7254i2$r24$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>I looked into this before Shan the oldtimer was here, Dr. David Williams
>isn't David Williams of licorice fame unless he can be in two places at
once.
>The responsible thing for Shan to do now is admit her error and apologize,
>but I won't hold my breath. The mob rule Shan has tried so hard to
institute
>here has now become lynch mob rule, so I don't expect sanity to prevail.
You are basing this hypothesis on what ???
>
>David Williams isn't an uncommon name, so making a public post alleging
>that two of them are the same person without any further evidence beyond
>the name is irresponsible, even by Shan's standard. The name Dr. David
>Williams isn't that uncommon either, it's also the name of one of the
>space shuttle astronauts. On the same evidential base and reasoning power
>Shan has just used I could equally make the case that:
>a) One of the astronauts also scams the sick, and/or
>b) There's a licorice salesman in space
>Neither of which are likely to be any more factual than Shan's defective
work.
Ah but, have YOU been to Deja News and done a search on this man/yourself
? - if you had, you would know that everything that Shan says is from
knowledge gained on Deja News - are you saying that THEY are wrong also ?
>
>> "When choosing between two evils I always like to take the one I've
>> never tried before"
>
>Well, trying to out someone on the flimsiest of evidence is an evil
>that you probably shouldn't choose again. -g
I think that Shan has a lot more than flimsy evidence and as for your, Love,
Light Laughter sig - isn't it a bit hypocritical after posting this
nonsense?
Anne (UK)
>
MAWired
>that two of them are the same person without any further evidence beyond
>the name is irresponsible
Not when you trace the web servers back to the same locale... Dave Williams aka
Licorice Boy has more than web site that all point back to him--but you have to
dig hard to find it. Hell, he even misspells the same words consistently in his
endeavors. Gotta at least give him credit for consistency.
Thumper... Oh Majestic Goddess of the Martial Arts
http://pages.prodigy.com/thumpersworld/fibrom.htm - FMS page
http://members.aol.com/fibrodo - The Way Of The Fog
Grow your own dope... plant a man
Debihoover
WAY TO GO SHAN!!!!!!!
Rah! Rah!! If I could do cartwheels, I shure would!! You go girl!! :-)
thank you soo much for the time and effort that you put forth to ferret out the
info and time nneede to put this all together!! I for one appreciate it veryy
very much!!! I truly do appreciate and admire that fact that you won't stand
still for deception and dishonesty being force fed down unsuspecting folks
throats!! I;m right beside ya, kiddo!! I got your back, if you need it!!!
:-)
p.s. I shore hope i don't ever end up on top of your sh*t list!! hehjeheh you
truly did a marvelous job at puting all the pieces together for us!
God Bless! Debbie Hoover
http://members.tripod.com/~dbhoover/index.html
Katroberts
two of them are the same person without any further evidence beyond the name is
irresponsible>>
>Not when you trace the web servers back to the same locale... Dave Williams
aka Licorice Boy has more than web site that all point back to him--but you
have to dig hard to find it. Hell, he even misspells the same words
consistently in his endeavors. Gotta at least give him credit for consistency.
>
And also NOT when he uses a different alias then "signs" it Dave. A big DUH
there, hmm?
d...@netradiomail.com
> Who is "g" or d...@netradiomail.com ? Can anyone put a name to this
> poster?
Gary Osbourne. I've posted here for a couple of years. I once asked
you if you had ever filed a complaint with Dr. Hitzig's license board
or whether you had undertaken court action against him. I don't recall
you answering the post. Take good care. -g
d...@netradiomail.com
> Not when you trace the web servers back to the same locale... Dave Williams aka
> Licorice Boy has more than web site that all point back to him--but you have to
> dig hard to find it. Hell, he even misspells the same words consistently in his
> endeavors. Gotta at least give him credit for consistency.
I haven't seen any evidence that David Williams web servers have any
relationship to David L. Smith's web servers. Shan certainly didn't provide
any such evidence. It appears to me that Smith and Sanford are from Michael
Baugh's area. Unless David Williams travels a few hundred miles to post under
another name, I don't think they're the same people. I'm still checking into
it. But my post wasn't about the Smilth/Sanford/Williams angle, it was about
the Williams/Dr. Williams angle. I'm saying they're not the same person. Take
d...@netradiomail.com
> You are basing this hypothesis on what ???
I'm not making an hypothesis. Shan did. For the record, Shan alleged that
David Williams was David L. Smith and Jean Sanford. Shan based her hypothesis
on the fact that a Jean Sanford post was signed with the name David (there
were actually two Sanford posts signed that way). Apart from the fact that
the name David was common to Williams and Smith and that both posted here,
Shan gave no further evidence to support her hypothesis. Using that criteria,
I'm surprised no-one has accused David Williams of being Dr. David Nye.
> Ah but, have YOU been to Deja News and done a search on this man/yourself
Yes, A number of times over the last couple of years. I used to post here
about how to use Deja News to expose spammers. I can't say Shan was a
star pupil. In fact Shan's spamfighting abilities are a recent affectation,
she once flamed me here for exposing some mlm magnet salespeople.
> ? - if you had, you would know that everything that Shan says is from
> knowledge gained on Deja News - are you saying that THEY are wrong also ?
Shan has taken information from Deja News and misinterpreted it. Using Deja
News alone sometimes isn't sufficient, particularily if you are going to jump
to unwarranted conclusions. David Williams and David Smith are posting from
different computers, different software, and different areas. That seems like
a lot of work to go through to mask one's identity. I don't know whether the
tools to find this out are available on WebTV, but even a content analysis of
their posts and websites also points strongly to them being different
individuals. I'm saying Shan made a mistake. You can accept her hypothesis
and continue this thread (though you might want to rename it 'Those short of
critical thinking skills line up here') or you can reject it.
> as for your, Love, Light Laughter sig - isn't it a bit hypocritical after
> posting this nonsense?
No. -g
d...@netradiomail.com
saying that Michael Baugh is David Smith. Michael is who and where
he says he is (you're not that well hidden Michael). Take good care. -g
Shan Leslie
who is at the top..!!
shan :-)
"When choosing between two evils I always like to take the one I've
never tried before"
Shan Leslie
ROFLMAO!!! Thanks MISH!! I needed that!
Shan :-)
<<Maureen in Mukilteo>>
>Maureen--he's that "love, light, laughter" guy who has a "personal
problem" with Shan. I guess he doesn't want to be known by a name...kind
of like that 'formerly known as Prince' fella, eh? For the life of me I
can't figure it out--she posts, he goes ballistic. Maybe he asked her
out in Junior High and she turned him down, and he's still holding the
grudge. Who knows???? You could advocate eating blended frogs or
practicing satanism, he won't say a word. She says the sky is blue, he
is on her like a cheap suit saying that she is misrepresenting the sky.
Strange are the ways of this world. Cheers, M.>>
"When choosing between two evils I always like to take the one I've
Shan Leslie
Gary Osborn in the flesh...making his snide and condesending remarks to
me as usual..
:-)
<<Who is "g" or d...@netradiomail.com ? Can anyone put a name to this
poster?
Maureen in Mukilteo>>
kean
<I once asked you if you had ever filed a complaint with Dr. Hitzig's
license board or whether you had undertaken court action against him. I
don't recall you answering the post.>
Well then I'll answer now. In a word: no. My health does not allow it. I
should file a complaint- I'll have to see what are the time limits.
(This happened in May of 1996.) My understanding is that there are quite
a few complaints against him so I'm not too sure what good one more
would do. I know some government agency raided his office last year.
Unfortunately Dr. Hitzig is back posting to newsgroups again. He has a
new plan he is hawking. And I imagine he will continue peddling his
"cure" until he kills someone. If you hear from this guy (he used to
copy names from ngs and then contact the people by e-mail offering his
program) runs for the hills! He is a con artist. He doesn't know what he
is doing. I bet he doesn't tell his new patients that one of the old
ones developed PPH. (Also do not believe his money back if it doesn't
help spiel. He won't follow through on that either.)
I notice he has cancelled a lot of his posts from dejanews. Trying to
get rid of the evidence.
Phentermine is the "safer" half of the phen/fen combo- the part still
available. Alone is has been shown to increase the risk of developing
PPH (primary pulmonary hypertension). PWFM are already at greater risk
of getting this disease so I wouldn't recommend that anyone with FM use
phentermine.
Saturday I was at my PPH support meeting. Out of 12 patients present, 4
of us had FMS in addition to the PH. (and I know another woman with both
who was not there) These support meetings started about 18 months ago
and since then 4 of women in the original group have died, one (with FM)
has started to go downhill and the rest of us (3) are fine. It's kinda
depressing.
To summarize <eg>:
--If you hear from Dr. Hitzig make a cross with your fingers to ward him
off and then run for the hills. Garlic is optional.
--Do not take phentermine.
--Since anyone with FMS can get PPH- watch for the symptoms: shortness
of breath, dry cough, chest pain, heart palpitations, fainting, and
edema in the legs and feet. The veins in you neck can bulge. The sooner
treatment is started, the longer you will live. Untreated PPH patients
live an average of 3 years.
--If you took phen/fen for over 3 months and if you have any of the
above symptoms, have an echocardiogram. This will show any heart valve
problems and if the technician has the experience (take note of the
"if"- not all have the special training to do this) they can also
measure pulmonary pressure. However the only accurate measure of PP is a
heart cath.
This public service announcement has been brought to you by your local
PPH expert
Maureen in Mukilteo (by the sea)
ACOFTIL
>"Angloanne" <an...@hailwood.prestel.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> You are basing this hypothesis on what ???
>
>I'm not making an hypothesis. Shan did. For the record, Shan alleged that
>David Williams was David L. Smith and Jean Sanford. Shan based her hypothesis
>on the fact that a Jean Sanford post was signed with the name David (there
>were actually two Sanford posts signed that way). Apart from the fact that
>the name David was common to Williams and Smith and that both posted here,
>Shan gave no further evidence to support her hypothesis. Using that criteria,
>I'm surprised no-one has accused David Williams of being Dr. David Nye.
I was thinking the same thing. Dr. Nye and Michael Bough have the
same "attitude" when posting and Dave Williams has the same arrogance.
>
>> ? - if you had, you would know that everything that Shan says is from
>> knowledge gained on Deja News - are you saying that THEY are wrong also ?
>
>Shan has taken information from Deja News and misinterpreted it. Using Deja
>News alone sometimes isn't sufficient, particularily if you are going to jump
>to unwarranted conclusions. David Williams and David Smith are posting from
>different computers, different software, and different areas. That seems like
>a lot of work to go through to mask one's identity. I don't know whether the
>tools to find this out are available on WebTV, but even a content analysis of
>their posts and websites also points strongly to them being different
>individuals. I'm saying Shan made a mistake.
This is MY point about all this--misidentification could lead to
disaster--suicide even. Jo's post on her trouble with her ISP (she
didn't know it was the ISP and thought others were doing it too her)
shows just how a misunderstanding could lead to disaster. Please,
before you accuse someone publicly, be certain of your facts. That is
MY concern. Then kill all the spammers and trolls you can--just be
certain you aren't hurting anyone innocent.
Nancy in CA
All thoughts posted here, unless otherwise cited, are my opinion based on my research
and my experience. Everyone should do their own research and make their own choices
based on their situation.
Please visit the new fms-guaifenisin support group at alt.med.fibromyalgia.guaifenisin
To respond via email, delete "nospam" from my addy.
Jo
Yes, Gary you would know about that after what you pulled the last time.
Wouldnt you.
The light part of his sig probably means that he is the almighty and has all
wisdom, if you ever read any of his posts then you would see that is what it
probably means, and the laughter part is he sits there and laughs at the
trouble he causes here.
Jo
And get that right Gary if you want to come after anyone because of this
post yes it is Jo and she is back.
David Williams and David Smith are posting from
>different computers, different software, and different areas. That seems
like
>a lot of work to go through to mask one's identity. I don't know whether
the
>tools to find this out are available on WebTV, but even a content analysis
of
>their posts and websites also points strongly to them being different
>individuals. I'm saying Shan made a mistake.
>> as for your, Love, Light Laughter sig - isn't it a bit hypocritical after
>> posting this nonsense?
>
>No. -g
Shan Leslie
servers have any relationship to David L. Smith's web servers. Shan
certainly didn't provide any such evidence.>>
You're so full of shit gary. Better learn how to read.
<< It appears to me that Smith and Sanford are from Michael Baugh's
area. Unless David Williams travels a few hundred miles to post under
another name, I don't think they're the same people. I'm still checking
into it. But my post wasn't about the Smilth/Sanford/Williams angle,>>
No, you're posts are always mud slinging contests directed at me..
<< it was about the Williams/Dr. Williams angle. I'm saying they're not
the same person.>>
I NEVER said they were...again..LEARN how to READ..
I asked IF he were one and the same...
<< Take good care. -g>>
I always HAVE!! No thanks to scum like you.........
Shan
Shan Leslie
available on WebTV, but even a content analysis of their posts and
websites also points strongly to them being different individuals. I'm
saying Shan made a mistake. >>
Then Nancy chimes in..<<<This is MY point about all
this--misidentification could lead to disaster--suicide even.>>
And THATS exactly why I pasted all information to the group. It's not MY
words but hard facts of who is posting..why don't YOU take a hike over
to Deju news and run down this stuff before you start siding with jerks
like gary who'es only purpose in life is to cause controvercY???
< Jo's post on her trouble with her ISP (she didn't know it was the ISP
and thought others were doing it too her) shows just how a
misunderstanding could lead to disaster.>>
This NO misynderstanding!! Read the post again..
<< Please, before you accuse someone publicly, be certain of your
facts.>>
Are you??
<< That is MY concern. Then kill all the spammers and trolls you can-->>
Doing JUST that!!
<<just be certain you aren't hurting anyone innocent.
Nancy in CA>>
Take your own advice..
Shan :-)
Shan Leslie
like a lot of work to go through to mask one's identity.>>
So what?? Capt dave's web page.. concerning ocean cruises & marine stuff
through his Moby Dick SEAQUAKE society, has A Hawaii addy but orginates
over here in Floria...so get real!
Of course the guy changes his addy's..he gets kicked off so many news
groups he has to try and sneak back in just to sell his crap.
The Jean L. Sandford post to this group was dave williamns..LEARN TO
READ GARY..READ READ READ!!!!!!!!
He signed his Jean L. Snadford posts witha Dad2jane..and David L.
Smith..on other posts to different new groups..READ READ READ...or do
you know how...???
So try to get a life will ya..??
Shan
who is tired of this idiot alway harping and bitchin and flaming
me...but is ALWAYS ready to prove what a moron he is..
Shan Leslie
Ann replied back..<<<Shan, I have followed your posts recently and have
seen you use name calling and profanity time and again. Those on this ng
that call for a kinder gentler ng seem to accept this from you. >>
You know something? If I use profanity here people know exactly where
I'm coming from. I'm not like some of the rest of you ( and you know WHO
you are) who use condesending tones and lectures and inuendo to feel
superior.
Where was your indignation when gary was belittling and slamming people
not too long ago. OH... FORGOT!! Since he didn't use the 'F' word or the
'S' word..it's perfectly alright with you if he abuses people.
And where was your indignation when dave williams WAS calling people on
this news group names..huh???
It seems apparent to me and many others that it name calling and ng
bashing is 'OK' with you...as long as it's not one of the great so
called unwashed & seemly unlettered people , like myself, but if the
person uttering the abuse or name calling SAYS their doing IT in the
name of 'RESEARCH' you remain conspiciously quite.
<.The immunity the ng gives you is interesting and not unexpected. But I
find your foul mouth distasteful and wonder why you find it necessary.>
Well..apparently alot of people feel the same as I do about weirdos and
jerks bashing and trying to screw this ng..
<< There seems to be much concern for what newbies think when they read
posts here. One can only imagine when they read the vile stuff that
spews forth from you. Is there any reason anyone here can think of for
saying someone is full of shit?>
Yep! Especially when all they live to do is harass me...
<I find it repulsive, as I did your suggestion that someone put their
genitals in a blender.>
Well hey...don't read my posts if it upsets you THAT much...
<<<< Take good care. -g>>
<<I always HAVE!! No thanks to scum like you.........>>
<<Gary was responding to your post accusing Dave Williams of taking on
another identity.>>
Yes he was. Without quoting what I said. He objected to me posting about
Dr. David Williams..and said I said 'he' was the same as capt dave..
He is full of it..because I asked the question: "Are they one and the
same??"
If it walks ,talks and squawks like a duck..COULD it be the SAME duck??
< You recieved many many positive strokes from people here for doing
this. Now you deny doing so and end up calling Gary scum for doing the
work he did to find that these people *were not* the same person. >>
No I did not! He implied they were NOT..with NO evidence!! He simply
wanted to blast me..
I posted all eveidence of dave williams AKA..Jean L. Sanford..dad2jane
and david L, Smith SHOWING they all were coming from dave
williams...pretty hard to argue with the man using 2 different Email
addys in ONE post..wouldn't you say????
Maybe YOU need to go back and re read my original post before you start
slamming me..
<I fail to see why you need to use this language.>
I fail to see why you ALWAYS side with people like gary or dave or
others who love to beat this group up whenever they feel the urge...
<<It's clear that you were confused and assumed a person signing "David"
and selling something was going to be David Williams. It's clear you
were wrong.>>
Clear?? What?? Confused..HA! It's clear to me..just want is the MOST
important to you on this group and it's NOT the group as a whole but
certain individuals. Oh sure, you can sit and bemoan and wring your
hands at me if I say something you don't like..but you clamp your
educated mouth shut..when your research buddies get down and dirty.
<< The amt of time people spend on David borders on the obsessive.>>
Apparently you don't read ALL the ng..
<< The morbid fascination with him is getting tiresome and dreary. If I
were newly diagnosed with FM I would want to find a ng with people
obsessing over current research and the wrongs committed by the med
profession,>>
Well..why aren't you?? Why are you HERE? If we're such a pack of
uneducated know nothings..why do you and others like you keep showing up
here..???
< not a bunch of "me too'ers" slinging mud and proud of it. David is
gone.>
Yeah..but he'll be BACK!
< His work and research is on his web page. If people want that, they
can find it. It's time to call it quits with the namecalling and outing
of him. For those who don't find the idea of licorice appalling, they
might be interested to know you can read about the use of licorice and
CFS in a book by an MD. He claims to successfully reverse CFS with
licorice. I saw the book at Borders, but don't have the title or author
with me. It's a 1998 pub date with CFS in the title. I'll try and find
the specific reference again.>>
We all know we can do a search on licorice root..
<<I NEVER said they were...
<<That wasn't obvious from your post.>>
Yes it most certainly was. You are taking it OUT of context. I was
speaking of Dr. David Williams and Capt Dave..asking (ONE MORE
TIME).."are they one and the same"'
<<Most here were thanking you for doing just that. You could have
corrected this before if you didn't really say so.>>
Everyones welcome to re=read my orginal EGG SUCKING post..and see I did
exactly as I said I did..
<<again..LEARN how to READ..
I asked IF he were one and the same..>>
Looks like the answer is no.
Ann
remove spamx to reply>>
Apparently NOT! Who knows?? I was simply raising that question...
maybe you should climb down off your high horse and read it again..
Shan
Shan Leslie
Firstly I would like to say quickly that all charlatans should be
exposed for what they are by people who know. As you say you won't
always win any popularity contests for doing this but nevertheless it is
still the right thing to do. So many people can be damaged or worse,
that it is morally wrong to sit back and do nothing when you see a
potential danger to others.
Once warned as you say people are free to do as they please but at
least they have more information to make that decision from. Anyway my
motives here are not purely unselfish. I wonder if you could tell me
more about this osteochondrosis, or where I could find out more. I have
a niece who is 12 and suffering greatly with her knee. Sounds much like
what you mentioned and I'd like to research it a bit for her. I will be
steering clear of Capt/Dr. Dave.
Does it have anything to do with inflammation in the tissue behind the
kneecap?
Thanks
take care
Moira
--
~ ~ I> may you sail on \ I /
~ / | \ calm waters and O
_ /_ I__\ _never lose sight of / I \
\_______/ your goals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
Thanks Moria! Heres the info you asked for. Hope this helps your niece!!
Shan :-)
<<OSGOOD-SCHLATTER DISEASE(Osteochondrosis)
OSGOOD-SCHLATTER DISEASE
(Osteochondrosis)
GENERAL INFORMATION
DESCRIPTION
Osgood-Schlatter disease is a temporary condition of the leg at the
knee, characterized by swelling, tenderness, and pain. The tibial
tubercle, a prominence just below the knee cap attached to a large thigh
muscle connecting the bone of the upper leg (femur) to the large bone in
the lower leg (tibia), is involved. This disorder often affects both
knees. Osgood-Schlatter disease is most likely to affect adolescents. It
is uncommon after age 16.
Appropriate health care includes:
Physician's monitoring of general condition and medications.
Self-care after diagnosis.
SIGNS & SYMPTOMS
A slightly swollen, warm and tender bump below the child's knee.
Pain with activity, especially straightening the leg against force, as
in stair-climbing, jumping, or weight-lifting.
CAUSES
Stress or injury of the tibial tubercle, which is still developing
during adolescence. Repeated stress or injury interferes with
development, causing inflammation.
RISK FACTORS
Overzealous conditioning routines, such as running, jumping, or jogging.
Being overweight.
PREVENTING COMPLICATIONS OR RECURRENCE
Help an overweight child lose weight. A reducing diet appears in
Appendix 31.
Encourage your child to exercise moderately, avoiding extremes.
BASIC INFORMATION
MEDICAL TESTS
Your own observation of symptoms.
Medical history and physical exam by a doctor.
X-ray of the knee.
POSSIBLE COMPLICATIONS
Bone infection.
Recurrence of the condition in adulthood.
PROBABLE OUTCOME
Usually curable with treatment in 4 to 8 months.
TREATMENT
HOME CARE
Use heat to relieve your child's pain. Warm compresses, heating pads,
warm whirlpool baths, heat lamps, diathermy, or ultrasound are
effective.
MEDICATION
For minor discomfort, use non-prescription drugs such as aspirin.
Your doctor may prescribe cortisone injections if other treatment fails.
Cortisone injections may weaken your child's tendons, so it is better to
give the condition more time to heal than to use them.
See Medications section for information regarding medicines your doctor
may prescribe.
ACTIVITY
Resting the child's affected leg is the most important treatment. This
is done with:
Crutches.
A leg cast or splint.
An elastic knee brace that prevents the child's knee from bending fully.
The child should not participate in sports during treatment. This is
temporary, and normal activity can be resumed when inflammation
subsides.
DIET & FLUIDS
No special diet, unless the child is overweight. See Appendix 31 for a
reducing diet.
OK TO GO TO SCHOOL?
Yes, when strength and feeling of well-being will allow.
CALL YOUR DOCTOR IF
Your child has symptoms of Osgood-Schlatter disease.
The following occurs during treatment: -- Symptoms don't improve in 4
weeks, despite treatment. -- Pain increases. -- Temperature rises to
101F (38.3C).
From the Complete Guide to Pediatric Symptoms, Illness & Medications by
H. Winter Griffith, M.D. © 1989 The Putnam Berkley Group, Inc.;
electronic rights by Medical Data Exchange
The user may download copyrighted material for personal use only. Except
as otherwise expressly permitted under the copyright law, no copying,
redistribution, retransmission, publication, or commercial exploitation
of downloaded material will be permitted without the express permission
of Medical Data Exchange and the copyright owner. >>
d...@netradiomail.com
> Then kill all the spammers and trolls you can--just be
> certain you aren't hurting anyone innocent.
David L. Smith has now lost his Dad2...@juno.com account.
Chalk one up for the little people :) His new address is
Dad2...@yahoo.com which I don't think he's used publicly yet.
It is however already on a spammer maillist, so what goes
around comes around.
If you see any spam from this guy forward it to
abuse @ yahoo.com . Jean Sanford also has an aol address
she doesn't seem to have used publicly yet of jsanf###@aol.com.
I've forgotten the numbers but it is unlikely someone else
matching that description will spam, and in either case forward
it to abuse @ aol.com . Smith and Sanford have a company called
Jedaka Marketing (there's no record of it being incorporated).
They sell Image Plus mlm, amongst others. Take good care. -g
d...@netradiomail.com
> Yes, Gary you would know about that after what you pulled the last time.
> Wouldnt you.
> The light part of his sig probably means that he is the almighty and has all
> wisdom, if you ever read any of his posts then you would see that is what it
> probably means, and the laughter part is he sits there and laughs at the
> trouble he causes here.
> post yes it is Jo and she is back.
I haven't the fibrofoggiest notion what you are talking about.
Please be a bit more specific, privately or publicly or both
and I will attempt to respond. Take good care. -g
ABrad94101
<<You're so full of shit gary. Better learn how to read.>>
Shan, I have followed your posts recently and have seen you use name calling
and profanity time and again. Those on this ng that call for a kinder gentler
ng seem to accept this from you. The immunity the ng gives you is interesting
and not unexpected. But I find your foul mouth distasteful and wonder why you
find it necessary. There seems to be much concern for what newbies think when
they read posts here. One can only imagine when they read the vile stuff that
spews forth from you. Is there any reason anyone here can think of for saying
someone is full of shit? I find it repulsive, as I did your suggestion that
someone put their genitals in a blender.
<<<< Take good care. -g>>
<<I always HAVE!! No thanks to scum like you.........>>
Gary was responding to your post accusing Dave Williams of taking on another
identity. You recieved many many positive strokes from people here for doing
this. Now you deny doing so and end up calling Gary scum for doing the work he
did to find that these people *were not* the same person. I fail to see why you
need to use this language.
It's clear that you were confused and assumed a person signing "David" and
selling something was going to be David Williams. It's clear you were wrong.
The amt of time people spend on David borders on the obsessive. The morbid
fascination with him is getting tiresome and dreary. If I were newly diagnosed
with FM I would want to find a ng with people obsessing over current research
and the wrongs committed by the med profession, not a bunch of "me too'ers"
slinging mud and proud of it.
David is gone. His work and research is on his web page. If people want that,
they can find it. It's time to call it quits with the namecalling and outing of
him. For those who don't find the idea of licorice appalling, they might be
interested to know you can read about the use of licorice and CFS in a book by
an MD. He claims to successfully reverse CFS with licorice. I saw the book at
Borders, but don't have the title or author with me. It's a 1998 pub date with
CFS in the title. I'll try and find the specific reference again.
<<I NEVER said they were...
That wasn't obvious from your post. Most here were thanking you for doing just
that. You could have corrected this before if you didn't really say so.
<<again..LEARN how to READ..
moira
Although I am very sorry to see you go I do understand the need to take a
break from all the fighting. You will be greatly missed by many and I hope
after a rest you will feel able to come back. You are one of the backbones
of this Ng. Don't let the B******** grind you down.
take care
Moira
--
~ ~ I> may you sail on \ I /
~ / | \ calm waters and O
_ /_ I__\ _never lose sight of / I \
\_______/ your goals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
moira
Firstly I would like to say quickly that all charlatans should be exposed
for what they are by people who know. As you say you won't always win any
popularity contests for doing this but nevertheless it is still the right
thing to do. So many people can be damaged or worse, that it is morally
wrong to sit back and do nothing when you see a potential danger to others.
Once warned as you say people are free to do as they please but at least
they have more information to make that decision from.
Anyway my motives here are not purely unselfish. I wonder if you could
tell me more about this osteochondrosis, or where I could find out more. I
have a niece who is 12 and suffering greatly with her knee. Sounds much
like what you mentioned and I'd like to research it a bit for her. I will
be steering clear of Capt/Dr. Dave.
Does it have anything to do with inflammation in the tissue behind the
kneecap?
Thanks
Moira
--
~ ~ I> may you sail on \ I /
~ / | \ calm waters and O
_ /_ I__\ _never lose sight of / I \
\_______/ your goals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Shan Leslie <aval...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<18371-36...@newsd-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Alot of questions, flame wars and hostilies, have erupted on this news
group over the last 6 - 9 months due to the struggles of a small core
group of 'old timers' against the slick scam artists, bunko tricks and
spam spreading maggots targeting AMF among other news groups for
financial gain.
A few people will support and defend the hucksters who try to prevail
here..
Others want all the flaming to stop and don't care who is involved. They
just want to stick their heads in the sand and let the storm roll by.
And then there are the scammers who will in turn attack and abuse the
very people who are trying to expose their lies and hypocrisy here and
try to get the news group to believe that they are 'control freaks' who
wish to run this news group.
Let me tell you all something....I have NO wish to control or run
ANYTHING..except my own life. But I get sick and tired of seeing people
defending these bunko artists and con- men/women who try to suck the
life out of this group. I'm tired of getting flamed by the weirdos and
freaks who abuse this ng in the name of insanity and deviousness to turn
a buck!
Therefore..I spent alot of time and effort to show this news group just
a little bit about ONE of these scammers who continually surfaces
here..to sell- berate and abuse.
I asked myself if this was worth the time I spend digging up this
information. I wondered if ANYBODY would even care, with the exception
of a small loyal group, who I know do care what happens here. Am I
wasting my time posting this here..? I don't know.
What I do know is this is soild evidence that this man 'appears' to be
making a living off alot of sick people in various health related ways.
I'm talking about Capt. David 'Licorice' Williams, the flim flam man.
This guy surfaces here on a regular basis to hawk his wares. What is
note worthy to me..is he leaves a pretty interesting and revealing trail
throughout cyberspace, as he wends his way peddling his snake oil
remedies , on web pages or directly to health related news groups just
like ours.
I also noticed David Williams is adept at changing the presentation
depending on who is audience is....but trys to cleverly hide his real
name under assorted alias'es and mailing addresses.
He also promotes
NET WORK MARKETING...
no big SURPRISE!
snip..<<Spare-Time MLM but Full-Time INCOME! more options
Author: Jean L.
SanfordEmail:js...@worldnet.att.netDate:1998/05/15Forums:alt.business.multi-
level.exceltel
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CONFESSIONS of aNetwork Marketing
Millionaire
Dale Calvert - The Millionaire -
and a 15 yr MLM Veteran, writes:
How would YOU like to develop a network marketing organization of 61,307
distributors and over 80 Million $$$ in sales?? YOU CAN !!>>snip
Well well..so much for his altruistic claims!!
If you notice the addy ABOVE & BELOW you'll see he used the same one
when he posted here a short time back as 'Jean Sanford' but forgot and
signed it 'david'.
snip..<<Jean L.
SanfordEmail:js...@worldnet.att.net:1998/01/24Forums:alt.med.fibromyalgia
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Over the past few months, I have corresponded with quite a few of you
via
e-mail regarding Fibromyalgia. Many of you have requested information
about the friends I have that have Fibromyalgia. Some of you have even
sent me your regular mail (snail mail) address so that I could send you
information.
For those of you that haven't written...let me update you. I have 5
friends that have Fibromyalgia. It is through these friends that I found
out about Fibromyalgia. It is through a network of support groups and
word-of-mouth that we all found out about herbal supplements that were
helping people with Fibromyalgia. As a matter of fact, my friends are
now symptom-free from the pain of Fibromyalgia; except for one - she
started in November, 1997 and is well on her way to wholeness again. I
was so excited about the results that my friends were having, that I
thought I should tell others about it! So I tried to...again and again
.. But after a few months, I came to the conclusion that a lot of the
people who frequent these bulletin boards really DO NOT want help. They
really DO NOT care to find out about what is helping other people. All
they want to do is bitch and complain and MOAN about how hard life is.
They want to talk about how no one cares and how much they hurt. People
want to get sympathy, NOT HELP.
Well... I don't have the time, nor the energy to try and help people
that really would rather bitch and complain about what life has dealt
them. You DO NOT WANT help! DO NOT E-MAIL ME if you just want to use my
time and use me or other people. I'm tired of people who just want to
sit back and have people feel sorry for them. I DO NOT feel sorry for
ANYONE that will not help themselves FIRST! For those of you who really
do want help, my advise is to try support groups in your local area. The
people on this board just want to bitch and complain. Please don't let
them lead you on and think that they care about helping you. Because
they just want people to complain to. Sorry for the long post ... I'm
outta here..... David>>
( Yeah Right!! LOL!!)
Dave Williams uses the alias ' David L. Smith' to peddle weight loss:
snip,,<<HOLIDAY WEIGHT GAIN? LOSE IT!!!!!!!! more options
Author: David L.
SmithEmail:Dad2...@juno.comDate:1997/12/31Forums:nc.charlotte.forsale,
misc.forsale more headers
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David L. Smith posted the following article in the For Sale Forum
http://www.he.net/~brumley/boards/forsaleboard.html Dated : December 31,
1997 at 19:42:51
Subject: HOLIDAY WEIGHT GAIN? LOSE IT!!!!!!!!
http://www.he.net/~brumley/boards/forsalemessages/2972.html E-MAIL FOR
INFO ON WEIGHTLOSS! All-natural. Many health benefits +
weight-loss!>>snip
How do I know it's David...???
Please check the following addys on this next one..and compare both
emails..
snip,,<<Herbal Alternative - Safe, Proven, & Effective against
ARTHRITIS more
options
Author: Jean L.
SanfordEmail:js...@worldnet.att.netDate:1997/11/30Forums:misc.health.arthrit
is
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I recently talked to yet another person who has had tremendous relief
from Arthritis by taking herbal supplements. I have been taking the same
thing for almost a year now.
Here is my story. I have a hair-line crack in my left knee due to
Osgood-Slater's disease, developed when I was 13 or 14 yrs. old. The
knee surgeons could promise no relief. For years, I lived with the pain.
When I turned 30, there would be days when I was taking 8-10 extra
strength Tylenol trying to dull the pain. But the pain NEVER went away!
In January, 1997 I was introduced to a herbal supplement. By this time,
the extra strength Tylenol had stopped working - even when I took up to
12 in one day! After 2 weeks f taking the supplement - the pain that I
had endured for more than 20 years HAD DISAPPEARED! Did I become a
believer? Of course! Was my case an isolated incident? Since January, I
have talked to more than 37 people who have had the same - or better -
results! It works!
Because it worked so well for me, I'll share it with you!
Just e-mail me at Dad2...@juno.com>>
He is David L. Smith, Jean L Sanford and Dad2...@juno.com...all rolled
into one snake oil salsman...!!!!!!! LOL!!.
BTW..he picked the wrong disease..
( ever notice how every ad for 'cures' he either knows someone or has it
himself with all recieving 'MIRACULOUS CURES??!!') when he picked Osgood
Schlatter because this is a predominately CHILDHOOD ailment..hahahah!!
Better luck NEXT time..david!!!
snip..<<OSGOOD-SCHLATTER DISEASE(Osteochondrosis) OSGOOD-SCHLATTER
DISEASE
(Osteochondrosis)
GENERAL INFORMATION
DESCRIPTION
Osgood-Schlatter disease is a temporary condition of the leg at the
knee, characterized by swelling, tenderness, and pain. The tibial
tubercle, a prominence just below the knee cap attached to a large thigh
muscle connecting the bone of the upper leg (femur) to the large bone in
the lower leg (tibia), is involved. This disorder often affects both
knees. Osgood-Schlatter disease is most likely to affect adolescents. It
is uncommon after age 16...From the Complete Guide to Pediatric
Symptoms, Illness & Medications by
H. Winter Griffith, M.D. © 1989 The Putnam Berkley Group, Inc.;
electronic rights by Medical Data Exchange>
BTW..david couldn't even spell this disease correctly that he's
supposely had all his life..
His claims cover a wide array of disease cures..including FIBRO - CFS -
AIDS/HIV - ATHRITIS -WEIGHT LOSS and ADD/ADHD...ect.
snip..<<Scientist writings on antioxidant. more options
Author: John
PalmerEmail:jpal...@ix.netcom.comDate:1997/12/08Forums:alt.support.attn-def
icit
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On 6 Dec 1997 14:48:25 GMT, "Jean L. Sanford" <js...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
I prefer to keep things really simple by asking >myself 2 questions:
Does it work really well in dealing with ADD/ADHD?
And the answer is "no, it doesn't. There is absolutely no evidence
worthy of mention that it does, and there is no reasonable theory why it
should."
Are there any harmful side-effects or
adverse > results to taking it?
And the answer is "yes, if effective treatment
is foregone due to the pursuit of worthless treatment." The antioxidant
that I am familiar with, really works >well in helping children and
adults that have >ADD/ADHD. Then you *DO* have a study showing
this, right? Sure you do.
Post a synopsis of the results. . .
There are also no side-effects -
after all, it is all-natural.
And as everyone knows, curare has no side
effects; it is, after all, all-natural. Estrogen has no side effects; it
is, after all, all-natural. Aspirin has no side effects; it is, after
all, all-natural.
Just curious: Are you actually this stupid, or
are you just putting on an act?
Sometimes it is easy to get caught up in this Dr. >says such and such,
this research claims etc, this study shows... All I >really care
about is:
Well this has been long and drawn out..but some of the people on this
news group need a wake up call..concerning defending and supporting
people like david who come here as wolves dressed up in sheeps
clothing..actually I take that back..I DON'T want to insult EITHER sheep
OR wolves!!
But you get my drift.
Did I dig all this up only to have half of you scoff and tell me never
mind..?? I hope not..but ask yourself how many times you've REALLY
investigated these guys..before you start flaming me for trying to point
them out.
And yeah..I'll get plenty of flack from david over this..and from people
like him..but it was worth it if ONE newbie understands why all the
OLDTIMERS here are always harping on certain disreputable people popping
up here.
Food for thought.
BTW...IS THIS 'OUR' DAVE THE FLIM FLAM MAN...????
Snip...<<<Recently we've seen a proliferation of slick, four-color
mini-magazines extolling various individuals as health gurus. "Dr. David
Williams" once claimed merely to be "leading the worldwide search for
natural remedies." Since then he has humbly proclaimed himself to be
"America's #1 expert in natural healing" and "the 'Indiana Jones' of
natural medicine." Back when he was "leading the world wide search"
he was pictured in a library. After proclaiming himself "#1 expert"
he pictured himself in a white coat, holding a stethoscope, surrounded
by the trappings of medicine. Williams has a celebrity picture of
himself standing next to 60 Minutes reporter Mike Wallace who is
publicizing shark cartilage as a cancer cure. Who is this funny guy?
Williams is a chiropractor who apparently prefers publishing
medicine-bashing, health-hype to popping spines. Williams has been
writing and publishing his personal newsletter Alternatives "For the
Health Conscious Individual" since 1989. I n 1993, he went slick with "a
special supplement to Alternatives, dubbed Breakthroughs in Healing (is
this guy original, or what?!) Williams claims to have 130,000 readers
across America. (p.15) Our reading of his mini-magazines leads to
the conclusion that "#1 expert" Williams merely reiterates the same
unsubstantiated claims for health food products that have been being
made for many years. It seems like his "research" has been simply
reading health foods propaganda. Williams proclaims "the secret of the
astonishing new all-natural cancer cure!" "The secret of the
incredible new heart protection vitamin!" "The secret of the
remarkable ultratrace mineral that beats chronic arthritis!" "The
secret of nature's sure-fire cure for high cholesterol!" "The secret
of the remarkable 29 cent herb that helps revitalize your immune
system!" "The little known amino acid that reverses sexual impotence
like magic!" (Gee, Dave, these sound terrific!) "Doctor" Williams
also warns his readers about misinformation being foisted on us by the
bad old "medical monopoly." Williams tells readers not to use sunscreen,
rather, rub on "a simple solution of vitamin C and water." "Beware
of the aspirin a day craze"; if you want to "achieve the same anti-blood
clotting results as aspirin, take bromelain, an all natural extract of
pineapples."
According to the Lawrence Review of Natural Products (7/93), bromelain
is a proteolytic enzyme used to tenderize meat. Medically, it has been
used in burn injury debridement and to reduce soft tissue inflammation
and irritation. The pharmacologic effects of bromelain are caused by
an enhancement of serum fibrinolytic activity and inhibition of
fibrinogen synthesis. It lowers kininogen and bradykinin serum tissue
levels and has an influence on prostaglandin synthesis. Since
bromelain is absorbed unchanged from the intestine at a rate of about
40%, it may have some of the benefits of aspirin, which also increases
fibrinolytic activity and influences prostaglandin synthesis.
However, aspirin has an experimental research record of effectiveness
that bromelain does not. Williams has no experimental basis for his
assertion that bromelain has the same anti-clotting features and to
imply that it is preferable.
Despite Williams' overconfident proclamations, the following weasel
words* appear inside the front cover:
The approaches described in this special report are not offered as
cures, prescriptio