MED: London Times: What do you think of this

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Richard Vanahlen

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Dec 21, 2005, 9:55:28 AM12/21/05
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I have contacted the London Times Health correspondent with a view to having an article published.

I sent him copies of the Cheney/Peckerman reserach and this is what he said:

"I've had a quick look. It strikes me that no evidence is presented in the Peckerman article to show low cardiac output is cause, rather than effect. You would expect a condition characterised by weakness of the muscles to lead to poorer heart output, because the heart is basically muscle. So I'm unimpressed. Correlation is not causation, as they say."

What do yo think?

Richard V

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bobbie sellers

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Dec 21, 2005, 10:30:27 AM12/21/05
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Hi Richard Vanahlen, on 12/21/05, you wrote:

RV> I have contacted the London Times Health correspondent with a
RV> view to having an article published.

RV> I sent him copies of the Cheney/Peckerman reserach and this
RV> is what he said:

RV> "I've had a quick look. It strikes me that no evidence is
RV> presented in the Peckerman article to show low cardiac output
RV> is cause, rather than effect. You would expect a condition
RV> characterised by weakness of the muscles to lead to poorer
RV> heart output, because the heart is basically muscle. So I'm
RV> unimpressed. Correlation is not causation, as they say."

RV> What do yo think?

RV> Richard V


I think he is exhibiting a typical reaction of a person
without personal experience of the syndrome. I would refer
him to the account in the Phoenix of the recent death and
to Dr.Lerner's work.

later
bliss

--
bobbie sellers - bliss at california dot com

"I am a citizen of the moment, I've built my white picket
fence around 'the now', with a commanding view of 'the soon to
be.' Does it really matter? Does it really anti-matter?"
- The Tick

Marnia He Sapa

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Dec 21, 2005, 9:52:10 PM12/21/05
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Haven't read the Peckerman article, but Cheney is careful to say nobody
knows what causes CFS -- he says something at one point about CFS being
the alternative to the classical congestive heart failure killing or
requiring a heart transplant in relatively short order. Neither, so far
as I understood, claimed other than evidence for cardiac
involvement/impairment, a version of heart failure, due to insufficient
energy production at the cellular (ATP) level. The heart, being a
muscle which is in constant use, uses ATP at a ferocious rate. When the
cells cannot make enough, impairment, heart failure being only one
possibility, results. Why we get CFS instead of angina -- who knows?
Does the slow impairment of the heart due to insufficient ATP production
preceed CFS onset? Coincide? Follow? Who knows? "More research is
needed." But clearly, from the Peckerman research, the involvement is
there for many people diagnosed with CFS/ME. Again, because the early
CDC (US) diagnostic criteria were so broad and weighted the fatigue
rather than refractory fatigue (post exertional malaise version 2.0),
there may be people who were diagnosed with CFS/ME who don't have the
cardiac
insufficiency-due-to-michochondrial-energy-production-malfunction
involvment. The editor who had a quick look needs perhaps to take a
longer, more considered one, and pay attention to what is actually said
rather than what he apparently assumes is being said.

Further discussion of the whole cellular energy cycle disaster (for
those who have it) is explicated very well in The Sinatra Solution:
Metabolic Cardiology by Stephen T. Sinatra, M.D. He's also got a
website. I've learned a bunch. Cheers and Happy
Solstice-Saturnalia-Channukkah-Yule-Christmas-Christmakkah to all! Marnia

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