Acrylic paint and blocked nasal passages
Brian Sandle
Is it common to suffer from blocked nasal passages and tiredness when
using acrylic house paint?
Is it an allergy or is the paint toxic?
Where can the standard ASTM D 4236 be found?
Brian Sandle
Nancy Kohrs
Take a look at ASTM's homepage...it gives the full text of all
their methods and it's searchable, too!
Good luck!
Nancy
http://www.charm.net/~nlk
Andrew Fitzpatrick
In <4pelfn$i...@orm.southern.co.nz> bsa...@southern.co.nz (Brian
Sandle) writes:
>
>Is it common to suffer from blocked nasal passages and tiredness when
>using acrylic house paint?
>
>Is it an allergy or is the paint toxic?
>
>
>Brian Sandle
Although (most) acrylic paints are water based and contain 50 to 60% of
their volume in the form of water they still do contain about 5%
solvent in them. This solvent evaporation in combination with the other
elements evaporating in the paint can cause airway discomfort in the
nose or lungs. Some people can be very allergic to paint and your
doctor can do a test to tell you if you are. It is always wise to work
in as ventilated an area as possible. As far as the tiredness you are
describing this is caused by the solvents in the paint entering your
blood stream and finally your brain but dont be too alarmed chances are
the effects will be very temporary. If you continue to have side
effects you should see your doctor.
Andrew Fitzpatrick
Greg Heath
I occasionally experience a sudden overpowering tiredness(to which I have often
referred as "passing out") when exposed to certain allergy or sensitivity
triggers. My energy level before exposure appears to be irrelevant.
Gregory E. Heath he...@ll.mit.edu The views expressed here are
M.I.T. Lincoln Lab (617) 981-2815 not necessarily shared by
Lexington, MA (617) 981-0908(FAX) M.I.T./LL or its sponsors
02173-9185, USA
In article <4pk6c0$2j...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, mli...@lamar.colostate.edu writes:
|> Maybe he's tired because he stayed up too long the night before?
|> Medical diagnosis over the Net is truely amazing!!
|>
|>
|>
Richard M. Donnelly
Greg Heath (he...@ll.mit.edu) wrote:
: I occasionally experience a sudden overpowering tiredness(to which I have
: often referred as "passing out") when exposed to certain allergy or
: sensitivity triggers. My energy level before exposure appears to be
: irrelevant.
I too have experienced this. I get very sleepy and also develop pain in
my forehead (but no pressure, so the passages probably aren't blocked)
within a couple of minutes of exposure to a sensitivity trigger.
The nasal sprays Atrovent and Flonase seem to help to some extent, but
I can't tolerate them. Does anyone have any suggestions other than
avoidance as ways of dealing with this? I know painters' masks containing
activated charcoal are available cheaply in hardware stores, but my
triggers include humidity and dark cloudy days, and the mask won't help
with these.
(I posted a much more complete description of my specific case to
alt.support.sinusitis a few days ago. Email me if you want a copy.)
Followups have been trimmed to just alt.med.allergy.
Rick Donnelly
r...@netcom.com
Brian Sandle
mli...@lamar.colostate.edu wrote:
: afit...@netcom.ca(Andrew Fitzpatrick) wrote:
:
: >Although (most) acrylic paints are water based and contain 50 to 60% of
: >their volume in the form of water they still do contain about 5%
: >solvent in them. This solvent evaporation in combination with the other
: >elements evaporating in the paint can cause airway discomfort in the
: >nose or lungs. Some people can be very allergic to paint and your
: >doctor can do a test to tell you if you are. It is always wise to work
: >in as ventilated an area as possible. As far as the tiredness you are
: >describing this is caused by the solvents in the paint entering your
: >blood stream and finally your brain but dont be too alarmed chances are
: >the effects will be very temporary. If you continue to have side
: >effects you should see your doctor.
:
: >Andrew Fitzpatrick
:
: Maybe he's tired because he stayed up too long the night before?
: Medical diagnosis over the Net is truely amazing!!
Are you in the paint business? I hope you answer that. Or a supplier, or
anything related. I have had email of a person having been taken to
hospital emergency because of paint.
You are casting aspersions at my common sense, aren't you if you say I
would blame light night tiredness on paint? Let's have some statistical
reasons for doing so.
If you find people often make such simple mistakes as to the cause of
illness, thinking it is paint, then perhaps the paint has affected their
judgement anyway, or perhaps, yours.
Though actually I do not think it is the solvents causing me trouble,
though I didn't know they were in water based paint, thanks. But perhaps
the solvents are carrying resin components into my sinus area.
I gets hard to breathe at night, and though I haven't done much painting,
a couple of times, after coming in from painting, I lay on the floor and
fell asleep in front of the heater for a couple of hours or more. I got
up and cooked and ate, but my total sleep that night must have 10 hours,
and I felt so tired next morning. Perhaps I was not breathing during
sleep. I have read that solvents can do that, though blocked nasal
passages might.
I remember not liking acrylic paint before, 10 years ago. The librarian
at the medical library said paint was no longer lead therefore was not
longer toxic. That appears to be wrong, and I hope debunkers do not cause
people to continue risking their health.
Brian Sandle
Dan
In article <4piekq$d...@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca>, afit...@netcom.ca writes
>In <4pelfn$i...@orm.southern.co.nz> bsa...@southern.co.nz (Brian
>Sandle) writes:
>>
>>Is it common to suffer from blocked nasal passages and tiredness when
>>using acrylic house paint?
>>
>>Is it an allergy or is the paint toxic?
>>
>>Where can the standard ASTM D 4236 be found?
>>
>>Brian Sandle
>
>their volume in the form of water they still do contain about 5%
>solvent in them. This solvent evaporation in combination with the other
>elements evaporating in the paint can cause airway discomfort in the
>nose or lungs. Some people can be very allergic to paint and your
>doctor can do a test to tell you if you are. It is always wise to work
>in as ventilated an area as possible. As far as the tiredness you are
>describing this is caused by the solvents in the paint entering your
>blood stream and finally your brain but dont be too alarmed chances are
>the effects will be very temporary. If you continue to have side
>effects you should see your doctor.
>
>Andrew Fitzpatrick
>
based latex with no added solvents or volatiles a couple years ago.
Although most of the population doesn't care vey much about those
solvents when they are painting, it has been very successful in painting
rooms in hospitals, where the patients would normally have to be kept
from a freshly painted room for a few days. People with sensitivities
should definitely look into it.
--
Dan Bode
ICI Paints
Clearwtr59
>I too have experienced this. I get very sleepy and also >develop pain in
>my forehead (but no pressure, so the passages probably >aren't blocked)
>within a couple of minutes of exposure to a sensitivity >trigger.
>The nasal sprays Atrovent and Flonase seem to help to >some extent, but
>I can't tolerate them. Does anyone have any suggestions >other than
>avoidance as ways of dealing with this? I know painters' >masks
containing
>activated charcoal are available cheaply in hardware >stores, but my
>triggers include humidity and dark cloudy days, and the >mask won't help
>with these.
Have you tried a painter's mask with an exhalation valve? Maybe that
would reduce the humidity. (Although I don't have problems with humidity
so I wouldn't know for sure.)
--Clearwater
Brian Sandle
Dan (d...@dbode.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <4piekq$d...@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca>, afit...@netcom.ca writes
: >Although (most) acrylic paints are water based and contain 50 to 60% of
: >their volume in the form of water they still do contain about 5%
: >solvent in them. This solvent evaporation in combination with the other
: >elements evaporating in the paint can cause airway discomfort in the
: >nose or lungs. Some people can be very allergic to paint and your
: >doctor can do a test to tell you if you are. It is always wise to work
: >in as ventilated an area as possible. As far as the tiredness you are
: >describing this is caused by the solvents in the paint entering your
: >blood stream and finally your brain but dont be too alarmed chances are
: >the effects will be very temporary. If you continue to have side
: >effects you should see your doctor.
: >
: >Andrew Fitzpatrick
I had been to the doctor about it over 10 years ago. He didn't offer any
tests, but said that painters suffer from all sorts of horrible troubles.
Recently unleaded petrol was introduced in New Zealand. Some of the first
batches had aromatics over 50%, especially toluene was high, I think, it
was also dissolving rubber and causing car fires besides reportedly causing
headaches.
Perhaps the solvents are aromatics.
My Aunt said that she and my mother were painting the bathroom and both
ended up with influenza-like symptoms. That is rather what my trouble
was. Then smaller triggers would aggravate it.
: >
: This is true. And in response to this, ICI Glidden introduced a water
: based latex with no added solvents or volatiles a couple years ago.
: Although most of the population doesn't care vey much about those
: solvents when they are painting, it has been very successful in painting
: rooms in hospitals, where the patients would normally have to be kept
: from a freshly painted room for a few days. People with sensitivities
: should definitely look into it.
That's very interesting. Are the paints durable - I was using ICI Spruce
which seems to be fairly good that way. (But it also happened with a
Taubmans acrylic primer.)
I was wearing a two strap 3M mask, but might try activated charcoal,
though I now remember one in the shop which talked of filtering the smell
from acrylic paint. I don't think it was charcoal, and wonder if it would
work for solvents and minute resin paritcles, if such are the trouble.
Since I was working outside I didn't think I would have to bother too much.
: --
: Dan Bode
: ICI Paints
Brian Sandle.
Brian Sandle
Brian Sandle (bsa...@southern.co.nz) wrote:
: : >the effects will be very temporary. If you continue to have side
: : >effects you should see your doctor.
: : >
: : >Andrew Fitzpatrick
:
: I had been to the doctor about it over 10 years ago. He didn't offer any
: tests, but said that painters suffer from all sorts of horrible troubles.
You may be thinking I am silly to use paint when it has caused me
trouble before, not when using it myself, though.
Since then I have decreased my `allergic' responses quite a lot by
including salt and fish oil in my diet.
Salt helps to regulate cerebrospinal pressure. Breathing does also.
If breathing is restricted the cerebrospinal pulse is regulated by
the heart pulse and the pressure is higher.
In one form of sinus trouble the cerebral pressure tends to push
through the nerve channel into the sinus area. This would restrict
breathing and be a feedback effect?
And to the person affected by the dark days and humidity, could you
please keep an account of air pressure to see if the trouble is
actually worse when the air pressure is low and is not holding the
cerebrospinal pressure in place? And try deep but slow breathing to
regulate the cerbrospinal pulse?
I think my pressure rises as a result of immune challenge. Fish oil
suppresses immune response. Just brainstorming somewhat though. But
there are refs to some of this.
Brian Sandle
Dan
In article <4puhb0$s...@orm.southern.co.nz>, Brian Sandle
<bsa...@southern.co.nz> writes
>
>Perhaps the solvents are aromatics.
>
commercial latex paints.
>My Aunt said that she and my mother were painting the bathroom and both
>ended up with influenza-like symptoms. That is rather what my trouble
>was. Then smaller triggers would aggravate it.
>
> : >
>: This is true. And in response to this, ICI Glidden introduced a water
>: based latex with no added solvents or volatiles a couple years ago.
>: Although most of the population doesn't care vey much about those
>: solvents when they are painting, it has been very successful in painting
>: rooms in hospitals, where the patients would normally have to be kept
>: from a freshly painted room for a few days. People with sensitivities
>: should definitely look into it.
>
>That's very interesting. Are the paints durable - I was using ICI Spruce
>which seems to be fairly good that way. (But it also happened with a
>Taubmans acrylic primer.)
>
I'm working in the Industrial Paints area, and I'm now located in
England, so I'm not up to date on consumer paints and the branding of
them. In a Glidden store, they will be able to help. I know the "no
volatiles" concept has NOT been extended across the whole line of all
indoor and outdoor paints, primarily because the public has been slow to
accept (read "purchase") the new line. It costs a little more to make
it, and people don't want to pay ANY more for paint, especially when the
major DIY chains use paint as a "loss leader", selling it below cost to
bring traffic into the stores. I'll be in the states next week;
hopefully I'll get time to stop in the Decorative Paints area in the
Research Center and ask a few questions for you.
>I was wearing a two strap 3M mask, but might try activated charcoal,
>though I now remember one in the shop which talked of filtering the smell
>from acrylic paint. I don't think it was charcoal, and wonder if it would
>work for solvents and minute resin paritcles, if such are the trouble.
>Since I was working outside I didn't think I would have to bother too much.
>
Charcoal will be effective in filtering a small amount of solvent.
There will be NO resin. Since you are working outside, I'll also
mention that the PREPARATION stages for painting -- sanding and scraping
-- are the most hazardous. Dusts, regardless of the chemical
composition, can be severe irritants. Many things previously thought of
as chemical pollutants or hazards are now understood not to be acting
through a chemical mechanism, but only through a physical one because of
the size of the dust particles. Be sure you wear a mask that fits well
for prepping.
Louise Hirasawa
I have just discovered a wonderful paint that is available in the US.
Made by Benjamin Moore, it is called "Pristine." It has no formaldehyde,
no VOCS (volatile organic compounds), no odor. I bought some this
weekend, used it in my kitchen and, for the first time ever, didn't have a
bad reaction to a paint! I hadn't painted my kitchen in, ahem, 20 years
because I didn't want the misery of dealing with my chemical allergies or
polluting my home. Pristine also has a primer/sealer. I got it at a
regular Benjamin Moore dealer. I am not connected to the company in any
way, just a very satisfied customer.
Brian Sandle
Dan (d...@dbode.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <4puhb0$s...@orm.southern.co.nz>, Brian Sandle
: <bsa...@southern.co.nz> writes
: >
: >Perhaps the solvents are aromatics.
: >
: That's quite a leap...I don't think there are any aromatics in most
: commercial latex paints.
Though aromatics were considered the culprits in the new unleaded fuel
trouble here, I think there are several types. Turpentine, that
common oil based paint solvent, is 50% aromatics, I discovered. I don't
think it is very bad for me.
Which aromatics are you saying are not in latex paints? :
[...]
[...]
: Charcoal will be effective in filtering a small amount of solvent.
: There will be NO resin.
I am wondering what that sinus irritant is. I do not have trouble with
rosin dust from my cello bow, but burnt resin is a problem, as used to be
my polyester resin cello case until I desensitised somewhat, or until it
aged.
Since you are working outside, I'll also
: mention that the PREPARATION stages for painting -- sanding and scraping
: -- are the most hazardous. Dusts, regardless of the chemical
: composition, can be severe irritants. Many things previously thought of
: as chemical pollutants or hazards are now understood not to be acting
: through a chemical mechanism, but only through a physical one because of
: the size of the dust particles. Be sure you wear a mask that fits well
: for prepping.
I believe asbestos is a problem because of its small size.
I was using a 3M Sanding and Fiberglass Insulation Respirator. It had two
straps and fitted well. I can tell that because it stops the goggles from
fogging - a leaky mask fogs the safety goggles or spectacles. The scraper
I was using seemed to clean off the paint in fairly large particles.
I might try a 3M Latex Paint and Odor Respirator. They cost twice as
much. It seems interesting that they are not regarded as suitable for
spray paints or solvent paints, though we have been told here that is
solvents that are the trouble. Perhaps 3M can tell me what it removes
that might be a problem - the `odour'.
It is winter here and there is influenza around, I don't really want to
burden my system with additive burdens. Perhaps I should get a 3M #5211
or equivalent. That works for pesticides in addition to the latex, spray
& solvent paints which the 3M #7018S does. I am wondering how long the
filter cartridges last, perhaps if kept for small amounts of irregular
use.
Or breathe through a clean long hose?
: -- : Dan Bode : ICI Paints
Brian Sandle
Andrew Fitzpatrick
I have been in the industrial maintenance coating field for the past 20
years. One of my spraymen who is from Norway told me that at home the
government required all contractors involved in spraying high VOC
(Volatile Organic Compounds) to give their workers a specified number
of breaks to drink milk. Supposedly the milk helps flush harmfull
toxins and solvents from the systme to some extent. All the proper
safety procedures are still to be taken ie proper masks and fresh air
supply. Has anyone heard of this before?
Brian Sandle
Mitchel W. Little (mli...@lamar.colostate.edu) wrote:
: On 19 Jun 1996 22:53:42 GMT, afit...@netcom.ca(Andrew Fitzpatrick)
: wrote:
:
: >
: >I have been in the industrial maintenance coating field for the past 20
I have heard that calcium, which milk has in good supply, holds lead in
the bones and stops the blood level from rising. Is there lead in some
volatiles? Perhaps it might work for other heavy metals. Is cadmium
present? We were told recently that mercury has been.
Brian Sandle.