When shopping online for bearings, how do you decide on QUALITY?

[Danny D]

Q: When shopping online for bearings, how do you choose which to buy?

I've never purchased bearings before and I now need about 10 of a
specific size (17x40x12mm, 6203-2RS, double sealed, not shielded).

Googling for bearing quality standards, I find ABEC 3 & ISO P6 standards
are common for bearing *tolerances* for pool pump motors.

But the ABEC/ISO ratings don't appear to cover materials selection,
ball retainer type, grade of ball, the clearance between the balls
and the races, and other manufacturer quality standards.

Worse yet, the ABEC-3/ISO-P6 rating isn't generally listed in most
online ads for bearings when searching by trade size.

Given the same 6203-2RS bearing sells online for anywhere between
$1.21 to $18.99 per bearing, I ask those who have actually bought
motor bearings before ...

QUESTION: How do *you* choose your replacement bearings online?

[Danny D]

On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 16:33:20 +0000, Danny D wrote:
> Given the same 6203-2RS bearing sells online for anywhere between

> $1.21 to $18.99 per bearing, how do *you* choose between bearings?

As a specific example, the 6203-2RS double-sealed bearing is a common
bearing for automotive and engine use; but very few online ads state
the manufacturer, and even fewer list the ABEC/ISO quality rating.

I can call each one, but there must be a better way.

I don't know which brands are better than others, and googling shows
a plethora of manufacturers, e.g., ASK, BCA, Bearings Limited, Bones,
Fafnir Torrington, FAG, Federal, GBC, Hoover, IKO, INA, KBC, Koyo,
Nachi, New Departure, Norma Hoffman, National Precision, RHP, NTN,
NSK, MRC, RHP, SKF, Steyr, Timken, & UBC.

Do you know which of these is considered a "good brand"?

Unfortunately, price isn't all that helpful (you never get what you pay
for - you get what the market will bear - and the market is filled with
idiots as well as savants) - as the survey below shows the same size
bearing for $19 at pool supply stores, down to $15 at Granger, down to
$2 at a variety of supply houses.

Since I need about 10 of these bearings, the result ranges from $20 to
almost $200 for my bearing replacement needs.

QUESTION: How do *you* choose your replacement bearings online?

Here is a quick result of a survey of the wide range of bearing prices
for the same size and description bearing (62032rs ACA3 ISO-P6):
$1.21 Ebay ABEC3
http://compare.ebay.com/like/130843959519?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

$1.60 brandx
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/6203-2RS10?gclid=COWP_4yAqbcCFStyQgodc3oAZg

$1.66 brandx (stainless steel is $10.40)
https://wbcindustrial.com/search/products/62032rs

$1.75 brandx
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/0474389

$1.82 Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/6203-2rs-Premium-Bearing-Bearings-ABEC3/dp/B00ALF1XMI

$1.99 Amazon vxb
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BBK3YY/ref=asc_df_B002BBK3YY2547988

$2.23 brandx
http://www.rcbearings.com/individual-bearings/62032rs

$2.77 brandx
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/6203-2RS10-1

$3.02 brandx
http://store.58cycle.com/All_Balls_6203_2RLD_483_AD_PN_62032RS_p/ad-pn-62032rs.htm

$3.95 Ebay
ebay.com/itm/6203-2RS-62032RS-6203RS-BEARING-17mm-x-40mm-x-12mm-/360259671063

$4.00 brandx
http://wetheadpumprepair.com/10-pack-6203-2rs-ll-bearings/

$4.99 brandx
http://oempumpstore.com/store/pump-motors-and-related-motor-parts/6203-2rs-c3-ll-premium-bearing-blue-seals/productld

$5.13 UBC
http://octopart.com/6203+2rs-ubc+bearing-24188456

$5.46 GBC
https://www.shopibt.com/storefront/itemdetail.do?action=prepare_detail&itm_id=877982

$5.95 brandx
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit8194

$12.29 SKF
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/45667383

$14.27 SKF
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SKF-Radial-Ball-Bearing-23Y203

$14.95
http://fixthepool.com/Motor-Bearing-set-of-2-10000353-or-6203-P126918.aspx

$18.99 NSK
http://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352012909.htm

[DD_BobK]

I just buy the cheapest ones... cuz price the only thing that matters.

[DD_BobK]

On Jun 7, 9:38 am, Danny D <Dan...@example.com> wrote:
SNIP

>>>>Unfortunately, price isn't all that helpful (you never get what you pay
for - you get what the market will bear - and the market is filled
with
idiots as well as savants)<<<

More wisdom from DADD ...or perhaps his father?

[Danny D]

On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 22:49:12 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

>> QUESTION: How do *you* choose your replacement bearings online?
> I just buy the cheapest ones... cuz price the only thing that matters.

I'm leaning toward a mix of that from you & that from dpb,
which is to buy the cheapest reliable brand-name bearings.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 15:43:43 +0000 (UTC), Danny D <Dan...@example.com>
wrote:

After over 45 years of buying parts for all kinds of machinery I
have developed a tactic that works well for me. Never buy the cheapest
or the most expensive unless you have fewer than 3 options.

[Dean Hoffman]

Have you wandered down to the local auto parts store?

[DD_BobK]

My comment "I just buy the cheapest ones... cuz price the only thing
that matters."

.... was facetious.

When I buy bearings...

I apply "Cost of quality vs cost of non-conformance."

[Danny D]

On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 20:59:08 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

> My comment "I just buy the cheapest ones... cuz price the only thing
> that matters." .... was facetious.

You will recall, the question is how to decide on QUALITY bearings.

So far, the ABEC/ISO rating of either ABEC1/P0 or ABEC3/P6
seems to be a good aiming point for *tolerance*; but that says
nothing about materials.

In addition, there appears to be a radial play standard, which
specifies the internal clearances (e.g., the metric standard
for deep-groove bearings C3 or NPB Code inch standard P25).
http://www.astbearings.com/ball-bearings-radial-play.html

The problem, of course, is obtaining this information.
Luckily some supply houses specify both the tolerance & radial play:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/13272553/img/13272553.png

The steel to aim for should be at least SAE 52100 chromed steel,
which is a through hardening, fine grain, Martensitic steel,
although a variety of stainless steels is an option (as are
ceramics, but not typically for a pool pump motor bearing).

Note that most stainless steel bearings will still rust, and,
that SKF says they have a lower load capacity; so, I'm not going
to aim for stainless steel materials.

It seems buna-N rubber seals are a fine material for pool pump
applications, although Viton is available.

And, it might be important in some applications to have a H1 NSF
Certified food grade grease, but not in mine (SKF uses the suffix
VT378 for such bearings).

http://www.skf.com/group/products/bearings-units-housings/ball-bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearings/stainless-steel-deep-groove-ball-bearings/index.html
http://www.abbottball.com/materials/stainless-steel-balls-302.php

[Danny D]

On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 22:24:13 -0500, Dean Hoffman wrote:

> Have you wandered down to the local auto parts store?

That may be a great idea!

Now that I know to aim for a 52100 chromed steel bearing
with a Buna-N contact seal with no shields and with an
ABEC3/P6 tolerance rating meeting P25/C3 radial play
standards ... I can go *anywhere* to buy the right bearing.

So, now that I know how to decide on QUALITY, I *can*
shop at a local auto-parts store.

I had not *thought* about auto parts stores prior though;
so I will call a few up tomorrow when they open to see
if/how they sell bearings.

I would think they'd only carry those rated for automotive
applications - so - the ratings & materials will be what matters.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Danny D]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 08:16:41 +0000, Danny D wrote:

> Now that I know what to aim for ...

> ... I can go *anywhere* to buy the right bearing.

BTW, the local Autozone can get them in 2 days special order for
$14 per bearing while the local Kragan/O'Reilly has them for $6.50
each (National PN 203FF).

I also found out that there is an additional noise rating for
Electric Motor Quality (EMQ) noise standards:
1. EMQ (ZV2) low noise (in CN standard or C3 loose radial play)
2. EMQ2 (ZV3) very low noise
3. EMQ3 (ZV4) extra low noise (usually in P5 tolerance)
http://www.nskf-bearings.com/bearingshandbook/EMQ_products/Electric_motor%28EMQ%29_bearings1.htm

That page also says two of the best quality manufacturers are NSK-RHP & SKF, so
that rounds out the top brands to at least these:
a. FAG
b. Koyo
c. Nachi
d. NSK-RHP
e. SKF
f. Timken

So, the goal is the following electric motor bearing QUALITY:
Trade size 6203-2RS, 52100 chromed steel, two Buna-N seals, no shields,
ABEC3 / ISO P6 tolerance, P25 / C3 radial play, EMQ / ZV2 noise levels
preferably FAG, Koyo, Nachi, NSK-RHP, SKF, Timken or equivalent brand name.

[DD_BobK]

On Jun 9, 1:10 am, Danny D <Dan...@example.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 20:59:08 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
> > My comment "I just buy the cheapest ones... cuz price the only thing
> > that matters."         ....  was facetious.
>
> You will recall, the question is how to decide on QUALITY bearings.

One useful definition of "Quality" is "fitness for use".

Now that you've read a bit about bearing design & bearing
materials....you're a bearing expert too?

omg.....

[Danny D]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 22:08:51 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

> One useful definition of "Quality" is "fitness for use".

Indeed. You are a wise soul.

For example, it turns out that the 25-inch diameter "cord" ring
around the Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150 filter tank is an
odd "Alladin" size of "Alladin O-486".

Upon first inspection, this looks like a standard o-ring trade
size; but there is no o-486 in the standard inch-size charts!
http://www.oringwarehouse.com/

A typical buyer would shell out $27 to $40 for the Sta-Rite /
Pentair part number 24850-0009, which is what the market will bear:
$27 http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=336&products_id=18551
$33 http://www.amazon.com/Sta-Rite-System-Filter-O-Ring-24850-0009/dp/B005MIZV6S
$35 http://www.poolsupplyworld.com/Pentair-24850-0009-O-Ring-S8S70/24850-0009.htm
$40 http://www.yourpoolhq.com/sta-rite-24850-0009-system-3-tank-o-ring.html

However, for me, bulk cord glued together is "fit for this use",
as long as the price for materials is well below those numbers above.h

It may not work, but, it seems to me that for a buna-N material,
your basic 100 viscosity cyanoacrylate adhesive should serve well
as an O-ring Glue (applied sparingly due to the sheer strength
of this particular style of glue).

So, my initial plans are to make my own 25-inch diameter o-rings from
bulk cord stock, if I can get the stock for about $1 to $2 a foot.
http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=117

If I can't get the stock at that price, I'll buy the Buna-N 70 durometer
o-rings for about $30. The decision is all about quality & fitness for
use, against the classic cost tradeoffs.

Just like you advised.

[Danny D]

On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 15:43:43 +0000, Danny D wrote:

> I'm leaning toward a mix of that from you & that from dpb,
> which is to buy the cheapest reliable brand-name bearings.

My current assessment (still forming) of what the good brand names
are for bearings, includes the following:
FAG/INA (made in Germany),
SKF (made in the USA),
Timken (made in the USA),
Koyo (made in Japan),
Nachi (made in Japan),
NSK-RHP (made in Japan).

If you know of other very reliable brands, please let me know.

BTW, here's a video showing how 6303-style bearings are made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6svVy1lYOA

[DD_BobK]

On Jun 10, 12:38 am, Danny D <Dan...@example.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 22:08:51 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
> > One useful definition of "Quality" is "fitness for use".
>

BIG SNIP

>>>However, for me, bulk cord glued together is "fit for this use",
as long as the price for materials is well below those numbers
above<<<<

>>>The decision is all about quality & fitness for
use, against the classic cost tradeoffs. <<<<

Hmmm... signs of learning, might there be hope?

[Tekkie®]

Danny D posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

Go to a real auto parts store like NAPA not the
zone or parts. They can most likely get them if
not in stock. Ask for wholesale price because you
work for local garage or some such. I used to have
an account with one that gave me wholesale best
pricing and if I paid my account off by the 10'th
an extra 2% off. They will sell the good brands
that another poster mentioned. SKF is local to me.
Timken and Federal Mogul may be the same
company... who knows any more? Of course Stormy
goes to HF and buys whatever they palm off, which
will last about 2 hours at most.

--
Tekkie

[Danny D]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 22:03:12 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:

> Go to a real auto parts store like NAPA not the
> zone or parts.

Good suggestion. I just called the local Napa store at
3071 Monterey Rd, San Jose 408-578-8630, which sells
an NSK 6203-2RS for $12.69 each.

They only have two in stock, but, they can order more.

[Lan Liyong]

These brands you have posted are all good, and they are all brands that can be searched frequently, but the brands are good, but at the same time it means that the price is expensive. If you need Chinese brands, you can go to my website to see, the quality is good, and affordable,
6203ZZ https://en.tradebearings.com/6203ZZ-191730.html
6203-2RS https://en.tradebearings.com/6203_2RS-80608.html
In addition to 6203 bearings, there are other types of deep groove ball bearings and factories for reference, you can compare prices from multiple manufacturers: https://www.tradebearings.com/ball-bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearings-catalogue.html