Re: What size electrical junction box fits a 1-inch diameter cable anyway?

[Danny D]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 02:06:54 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

> 6203 is the important part.
> That is the size of the bearing
> You also want "sealed" bearings, not "shielded" bearings

Thanks for that information as the bearing designation definitely
still confuses me (if I wish to understand the various suffixes).

Googling, I see the shield is a non contact surface, while the
seal is a contact surface (for what it's worth).

The old bearings were the 6203V NSK USA while the rebuilder
(for about $150) put in the KBC 2145 6203D China bearings:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13112086/640/13112086.jpg

Googling, I find the AO Smith part number, size, & description is:
604005-001 ID=0.6693",OD=1.5750",W=0.470" double sealed high thrust

The nominal size for a 6203 bearing seems to be slightly different:
6203 ID=0.66993", OD=1.5748", W=0.4724"

But, maybe that's just a function of metric-to-english conversion:
ID=17mm, OD=40mm, W=12mm

The actual 6203 apparently boils down to this:
6 = metric, single row ball bearing, deep groove
2 = light duty (e.g., 40mm OD, 12mm width)
03 = 17 mm bore diameter

The 6203 is so common, I find a confusing array of suffixes:
6203D (http://webshop.abfbearings.com/Bearing/6203D-KBC/329328)
6203V (http://www.tanchin-hk.com/bearings-shop-22026-NSK.html)
6203LL (http://www.spapartsshop.com/na-6203-ll.aspx)
6203ZZ (http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/kit1040)
6203RS (http://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352012909.htm)
62032RS(http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-424/6203-dsh-2RS-6203-dsh-ZZ-Radial-Ball/Detail)
etc.

From the advertising, these "seem" to be what the suffix indicates:
6203D (deep groove, ball, single row, rubber seal on one side)
6203V (deep groove, ball)
6203LL (same as 2RS)
6203ZZ (double, staked, non-contact, 300 series stainless steel shields)
6203RS (rubber seals)
62032RS (two rubber seals)

This is all so confusing... that I think I'll call AO Smith for advice.

[Danny D]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 16:42:08 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

> If you really want SS bolts through your motor, buy some #8 or #10
> threaded rod and put nuts on both sides.

Funny you should mention that... as I called AO Smith technical
support today (800-262-6484) to nail down thru-bolt specifications.

It turns out these bolts are, just as you suggested, #8x32, of
varying lengths depending on the length of the motor itself.

Specifically, they are "8x32 UNC rolled thread" (whatever that means),
of 0.272" in diameter, with only the last 1 inch threaded, and with
a 1/4 inch hex head.

In case someone else needs it, here are the lengths for my motors:
AO Smith QC1102 1.65HP(net) 09.38" long thru bolts (P/N 606202-071)
AO Smith U27-881 1.65HP(net) 10.25" long thru bolts
AO Smith U27-884 2.20HP(net) 10.25" long thru bolts
AO Smith SQ1152 2.20HP(net) 10.75" long thru bolts

Googling for the AO Smith part number 606202-071, I find they're
$4 each at http://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352042244.htm
$3.30 each at http://www.poolproducts.com/SPP/productr.asp?pf_id=5270-45
$2.57 each at http://www.aqua-man.com/row_num.asp?Ic=96689
and they have a description of:
A.O. Smith Motor Thru-Bolt, 8-32 x 9-3/8" x 2" Thread

So, like Oren with the huckleberries, when you say #8 stainless steel
through bolts, I should come 'a runnin', cuz, you're on the money.

BTW, would there be any "galvanic" problem with stainless steel
threaded into aluminum?

[Danny D]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 16:42:08 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

> If you really want SS bolts through your motor, buy some #8 ...

> threaded rod and put nuts on both sides.

One correction. We only need a 1/4" #8x32 nut on one side.

BTW, if anyone needs to know, calling AO Smith technical support
turns out not to be an easy endeavor, until you try it once.

Googling, you'll find 800-433-2545 listed as the best number,
but that turns out to be a division that was sold to
waterheaterparts.com, and not the motor division.

They'll tell you that AO Smith technical support is at
800-527-1953, which it is, but not for motors. That company
is now called hotwater.com.

Finally, that number above will tell you the *real* technical
support number for A.O. Smith motors, which is 800-262-6484.

This is a company called "Regal", who has a division called
"Century" (centuryelectricmotor.com) which owns the AO Smith
brand.

[Danny D]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 02:10:46 +0000, Danny D wrote:

> The actual 6203 apparently boils down to this:
> 6 = metric, single row ball bearing, deep groove
> 2 = light duty (e.g., 40mm OD, 12mm width)
> 03 = 17 mm bore diameter

Googling, I find the bearing suffixes are confusingly arcane.

There are "old" and "new" suffixes referenced here:
http://www.bearing-online.net/search/index.asp?page=853&mtype=&new_model=&old_model=&in_num=&out_num=&h_num=&leixing=

And single versus double shield codes explained here:
http://www.dynaroll.com/shields.asp

Prefixes and suffixes are explained here:
http://www.ahrinternational.com/FAG_nomenclature.shtml

And this description was found on a.h.r:

D = molded Buna-N rubber lip seal with a steel insert which provides
maximum protection against contamination; however, the high pressure of
the lip seal itself results in greatly increased torque and friction
losses that can cause heat build-up in higher speed applications. The
seal material itself is rated to a maximum of 250 °F
S = same as D except it's non contact
DD = same as D but double shielded
M = brass cage
V = single, contact, nitrile rubber seal (keeps fluids out)
Z = single, staked, non-contact shield of 300 series stainless steel.
LL = ? seems to be the same as 2RS ?
NR = snap ring and groove
RS = single nitrile rubber seal
TS = glass reinforced teflon giving good contamination protection
VV = double non-contact seal
ZS = same as ZZ but retained by a snap wire
TTS = same as TS, but double shielded
ZZS = same as ZS but double shielded
ZZ = double, staked, non-contact, 300 series stainless steel shields
ZZA = removable shield
2RS = double nitrile rubber seals
DDU = double contact seals (apparently similar to 2RS)

[Danny D]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:44:39 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

> If you have a real bearing store and you are here on a slow day the
> counter guy can tell you everything you need to know about bearings.
> I think VXB is the company I bought my last batch from.

You're not kidding that bearing suffixes are confusing as all hell!

I suspect for my $150, the Chinese bearings my motor rebuilder put
in are likely the cheapest he could get away with. So it behooves
us to rebuild our own motors, where we can put in the best bearings.

The trick is to figure out *what* is the best bearing to use!

To get a handle on what the bearing needs to be, I called the
AO Smith technical support hotline at 800-262-6484. The lady from
Tennessee knew absolutely nothing about bearings, but she kindly
read off the specs for me off the motor datasheets.

The bearings are made by NSK and they list the part numbers as:
QC1102 1.65HP motor: 6203 double sealed NSK 6203WC3E CLKEEMSM
SQ1152 2.20HP motor: 6203 double sealed NSK 62032RSGC3ETDEEMS9

Googling for those NSK numbers, I don't find anything useful.
But, when I google the part number (604005-001), I can find it as:
$19, 62032RS http://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352012909.htm

So, now that gives me 6203D, 6203V, and 6203RS as the bearings,
all of which are different - which is driving me crazy.

What I'm doing now is reading the NSK booklet titled:
"The ABCs of Bearings", located here:
http://www.nsk.com/services/basicknowledge/manual/abc/

[Rheilly Phoull]

Are you guys talking about a pool pump motor ?
If so the 2RS suffix is all you need and is correct for the job being 2
sealing shields for both sides of the bearing (my ex profession) all the
others are for special needs. Don't try to be too technical :-)

Cheers !!

[DD_BobK]

On May 22, 1:49 am, Rheilly Phoull <rhei...@bigslong.com> wrote:
> On 22/05/13 12:12, Danny D wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:44:39 -0400, gfretwell wrote:
>
> >> If you have a real bearing store and you are here on a slow day the
> >> counter guy can tell you everything you need to know about bearings.
> >> I think VXB is the company I bought my last batch from.
>
> > You're not kidding that bearing suffixes are confusing as all hell!
>
> > I suspect for my $150, the Chinese bearings my motor rebuilder put
> > in are likely the cheapest he could get away with. So it behooves
> > us to rebuild our own motors, where we can put in the best bearings.
>
> > The trick is to figure out *what* is the best bearing to use!
>
> > To get a handle on what the bearing needs to be, I called the
> > AO Smith technical support hotline at 800-262-6484. The lady from
> > Tennessee knew absolutely nothing about bearings, but she kindly
> > read off the specs for me off the motor datasheets.
>
> > The bearings are made by NSK and they list the part numbers as:
> >   QC1102 1.65HP motor: 6203 double sealed NSK 6203WC3E CLKEEMSM
> >   SQ1152 2.20HP motor: 6203 double sealed NSK 62032RSGC3ETDEEMS9
>
> > Googling for those NSK numbers, I don't find anything useful.
> > But, when I google the part number (604005-001), I can find it as:

> >   $19, 62032RShttp://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352012909.htm

>
> > So, now that gives me 6203D, 6203V, and 6203RS as the bearings,
> > all of which are different - which is driving me crazy.
>
> > What I'm doing now is reading the NSK booklet titled:
> >   "The ABCs of Bearings", located here:
> >  http://www.nsk.com/services/basicknowledge/manual/abc/
>
> Are you guys talking about a pool pump motor ?
> If so the 2RS suffix is all you need and is correct for the job being 2
> sealing shields for both sides of the bearing (my ex profession) all the
> others are for special needs. Don't try to be too technical :-)
>
> Cheers !!

.....Don't try to be too technical :-) .....

+1

[Oren]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 07:50:06 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK <rkaz...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> Are you guys talking about a pool pump motor ?
>> If so the 2RS suffix is all you need and is correct for the job being 2
>> sealing shields for both sides of the bearing (my ex profession) all the
>> others are for special needs. Don't try to be too technical :-)
>>
>> Cheers !!
>
>
>.....Don't try to be too technical :-) .....
>
>+1

Never let the facts interfere in the writing of a good report...

+1

[Danny D]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 16:49:03 +0800, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

> Are you guys talking about a pool pump motor ?
> If so the 2RS suffix is all you need and is correct for the job being 2
> sealing shields for both sides of the bearing (my ex profession) all the
> others are for special needs. Don't try to be too technical

Two points to consider:
1. The answer is easy only when you already know the answer.
2. The rebuilder apparently put in the wrong bearings then.

The rebuilder, for $150, put in 6203D bearings, even though the manufacturer
seems to specify 6203-2RS, the difference between a seal and a shield being
great (one is a contact surface, the other isn't, which is a big deal for a
bearing when things spin for hours every day):

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13112086/img/13112086.jpg

But, now that I know the 6203D is the wrong bearing, and that the 6203-2RS
is the right bearing, I do agree. The answer is now simple (now that I know
the answer).

It's no longer technical. It's just a part number now.

[Danny D]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 07:50:06 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

> .....Don't try to be too technical

> +1

As stated prior, everything is easy once you already know the answer.
Until then, you need to be technical to find out the answer.

Here's the answer (as far as I know):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13134279/img/13134279.png

If that's correct, then it's just a list; and there's no need to be
technical. However, if that's not correct (and it might not be), then
I need to get technical again ... until the list is fleshed out.

At the moment, I am trying to figure out the o-ring trade names.

[Danny D]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 10:05:44 -0700, Oren wrote:

> Never let the facts interfere in the writing of a good report...

REPORT:

Here's the current factual report for proper rebuilding of such pumps:
(Note: I have not figured out how to xref to the o-ring trade size yet.)
-----
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13134279/img/13134279.png
-----
AO Smith QC1102 1.65HP(net) motor:
a. bearing, nitrile double sealed (not shielded), 6203-2RS (2)
b. thru-bolt (4) 606202-071 1/4"hexhead, #8x32-1" 0.272" 9.375" (9 3/8") SS
-----
Sta-Rite Max-e-glas II Pool Pump Repair Kit (GO-KIT38-9)
c. 3/4" shaft seal 3/4" (Buna=37400-0027S, PS201)(Viton=37400-0028S, PS3868)
d. seal plate o-ring (U9-228A; may be trade size O-113)
e. pre1998: Insert o-ring U9-376 (may be trade size O-240)
f. diffuser o-ring (U9-37A; may be trade size O-83)
g. trap cover o-ring (U9-375; may be trade size O-12)
h. drain plug o-ring (x2) U9-359
Note: The O-ring trade-size guesses are based on the Aladdin GO-KIT38-9.

[Rheilly Phoull]

You are right of course about knowing the answer, the comment was made
as friendly advise. It is common for people new to a task to get too
technical and ignore common sense or reasoning. Anyway whatever, you are
on the way to the knowing part :-)

[Danny D]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 10:03:13 +0800, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

> You are right of course about knowing the answer, the comment was made
> as friendly advise. It is common for people new to a task to get too
> technical and ignore common sense or reasoning. Anyway whatever, you are
> on the way to the knowing part

Thanks for that friendly advice.

The problem is compounded by the lack of details in the part number.

For example, I can get "buna" rubber O-240 o-rings for 50 cents each:
http://www.amazon.com/240-Buna-N-O-Ring-Durometer-Black/dp/B000FN0U3O

Or, I can pay $16 (on special!) for that o-ring at the pool supply store:
http://www.lesliespool.com/Specials/pool-parts/90002/9000006/58086.html

The problem is in knowledge.

For example, is the sixteen-dollar o-ring made out of the same buna
rubber material as the fifty-cent o-ring?

I don't know. Do you? How can we tell?

Note: If we already know the material is the same, then it's not a
technical problem; but if we don't know the material - one has to
wonder whether you get what you pay for. That is, is a sixteen dollar
o-ring the same material as a fifty-cent o-ring?

There's where it gets technical.

[DD_BobK]

That $16 O-ring represents the cost of the supply chain.

If you want to educate yourself to reasonable level about O-rings & O-
ring material apps,'
go to McMaster Carr catalog and search on O-rings.

If you REALLY want to learn about O-rings

http://www.parker.com/literature/ORD%205700%20Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf

[Rheilly Phoull]

Considering the duty go for the cheaper part, many of the pool shops
will gouge your eyes out on parts that are quite often the same as those
available elsewhere cheaply.

[Lan Liyong]

6203 bearings belong to the deep groove ball bearing series, which are mainly used in resistance measuring instruments, shovels, other testing machines, tops, thimbles, surface treatment equipment, garbage incinerators, automotive instruments, motors, retaining rings, automotive lamps and other equipment.

Different brands, the suffix of the same model is different
For example, sfk uses zz, fag uses 2Z
6203ZZ https://en.tradebearings.com/6203ZZ-191730.html　equal　6203-2Z https://en.tradebearings.com/6203_2Z-80231.html
You can also check other suffixes：
6203-2RS https://en.tradebearings.com/6203_2RS-80608.html
6203-RS https://en.tradebearings.com/6203_RS-81290.html

[Lan Liyong]