Did mathematicians know?
James Harris
rather basic argument in a very short space, which has *enormous*
implications, only to see mathematicians mostly walk away.
Then there's that interesting article from a while back.
See "When is a proof?" http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_06_03.html
Here's an excerpt:
<Quote>
What is a proof? The question has two answers. The right wing
("right-or-wrong", "rule-of-law") definition is that a proof is a
logically correct argument that establishes the truth of a given
statement. The left wing answer (fuzzy, democratic, and human
centered) is that a proof is an argument that convinces a typical
mathematician of the truth of a given statement.
While valid in an idealistic sense, the right wing definition of a
proof has the problem that, except for trivial examples, it is not
clear that anyone has ever seen such a thing.
</Quote>
Maybe mathematicians now believe there are multiple errors in core.
Possibly they've found LOTS of problems with "proofs" so what I've
found is just one of many.
Now they're setting up for a new position where proof does not exist,
and they don't even bother claiming it does.
Possibly my biggest problem is timing, as mathematicians have already
decided to move on with the knowledge that the foundations they
previously touted, are riddled with errors.
James Harris
Porky Pig Jr
> One of the odder things I keep facing is my ability to explain a
> rather basic argument in a very short space,
/\ /\
( \\ // )
\ \\ // /
\_\\||||//_/
\/ _ _ \
\/|(O)(O)|
\/ | |
___________________\/ \ /
// // |____|
// || / \
//| \| \ 0 0 /
// \ ) V / \____/
// \ / ( /
"" \ /_________| |_/
/ /\ / | ||
/ / / / \ ||
| | | | | ||
| | | | | ||
|_| |_| |_||
\_\ \_\ \_\\ James Harris
George Cox
Well done Mr Pig! or may I call you Porky?
--
G.C.
Note ANTI, SPAM and invalid to be removed if you're e-mailing me.
David C. Ullrich
>One of the odder things I keep facing is my ability to explain a
>rather basic argument in a very short space, which has *enormous*
>implications, only to see mathematicians mostly walk away.
That's a strange thing to say, considering the number of
mathematicians who continue to explain that this is wrong
and that is wrong, no matter how many times you repeat them...
>Then there's that interesting article from a while back.
>
>
>See "When is a proof?" http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_06_03.html
>
>Here's an excerpt:
>
><Quote>
>What is a proof? The question has two answers. The right wing
>("right-or-wrong", "rule-of-law") definition is that a proof is a
>logically correct argument that establishes the truth of a given
>statement. The left wing answer (fuzzy, democratic, and human
>centered) is that a proof is an argument that convinces a typical
>mathematician of the truth of a given statement.
>
>While valid in an idealistic sense, the right wing definition of a
>proof has the problem that, except for trivial examples, it is not
>clear that anyone has ever seen such a thing.
></Quote>
>
>Maybe mathematicians now believe there are multiple errors in core.
Huh? How in the world do you get from that quote to this
conjecture about what mathematicians think?
>Possibly they've found LOTS of problems with "proofs" so what I've
>found is just one of many.
"Possibly" indeed - if you could name one example that would be
a little more compelling.
>Now they're setting up for a new position where proof does not exist,
>and they don't even bother claiming it does.
Huh?
>Possibly my biggest problem is timing, as mathematicians have already
>decided to move on with the knowledge that the foundations they
>previously touted, are riddled with errors.
No, I don't think that timing is your biggest problem.
David C. Ullrich
**************************
As far as I'm concerend you're trying to wait until I die, so I figure
maybe you should die instead. How about that, eh? Wouldn't that be a
better twist?
You refuse to follow the math, so the great Powers that control
reality and *speak* in mathematics decide to kill you instead of me.
So what do you think about that, eh? Oh, can't hear Them talking?
Well, I guess that's because you don't really understand Mathematics,
the true language, which is THE language.
They're talking about you now, and They agree with my assessment, and
will not penalize me as They allowed the others like Galois and Abel
to be penalized.
They will kill you instead.
James Harris speaking on "Weird factorization, genius"
Porky Pig Jr
>
> Well done Mr Pig! or may I call you Porky?
Call me PPJ as we all strive for a *very short space*.
Brian Quincy Hutchings
which is really the same as the Copenhagen School of QM
(the reification of the "skware of the probability"
of an event, and a mystical view of the Uncertainty Principle);
so, it looks to me, like "they" are "setting up
for a new position where proof does not exist,"
does Devlin mean to say that (e.g.)
the Pythagorean Theorem has never been proven,
in spite of hundreds of variants?
jst...@msn.com (James Harris) wrote in message news:<3c65f87.03100...@posting.google.com>...
> What is a proof? The question has two answers. The right wing
> ("right-or-wrong", "rule-of-law") definition is that a proof is a
> logically correct argument that establishes the truth of a given
> statement. The left wing answer (fuzzy, democratic, and human
> centered) is that a proof is an argument that convinces a typical
> mathematician of the truth of a given statement.
>
> While valid in an idealistic sense, the right wing definition of a
> proof has the problem that, except for trivial examples, it is not
> clear that anyone has ever seen such a thing.
> Now they're setting up for a new position where proof does not exist,
> and they don't even bother claiming it does.
--les ducs de Buffet;
vote NONE OF THE BELOW
on Trickier Dick Cheney's California Recall & e-Dereg!
http://larouchepub.com
The Ghost In The Machine
In sci.math, Porky Pig Jr
<porky_...@my-deja.com>
wrote
on 3 Oct 2003 10:01:49 -0700
<56cfb0e3.03100...@posting.google.com>:
Looks like a donkey hôte to me... :-)
But where's the windmill?
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net -- insert random very weird pun here
It's still legal to go .sigless.
Joona I Palaste
on sci.math:
> One of the odder things I keep facing is my ability to explain a
> rather basic argument in a very short space, which has *enormous*
> implications, only to see mathematicians mostly walk away.
James, have you ever considered the possibility that the reason why
everyone who has looked at your proofs and said that you are wrong is
that *you* *are* *wrong*?
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"And according to Occam's Toothbrush, we only need to optimise the most frequent
instructions."
- Teemu Kerola
Brian Quincy Hutchings
The Ghost In The Machine <ew...@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in message news:<n5b351-...@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net>...
> > \_\ \_\ \_\\ James Harris
>
> Looks like a donkey hôte to me... :-)
>
> But where's the windmill?
--les ducs de Buffet;
vote NONE OF THE BELOW
on Trickier Dick Cheney's California Recall & e-Dereg!
http://larouchepub.com
Francis Harrington
"Brian Quincy Hutchings" <Qnc...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:bde404c9.0310...@posting.google.com...
> man, what's "hote" mean ?!?
>
> The Ghost In The Machine <ew...@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in
message news:<n5b351-...@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net>...
>
> > > \_\ \_\ \_\\ James Harris
> >
> > Looks like a donkey hôte to me... :-)
"Hote" means "hot," and a donkey is an ass, so I guess it means "hot ass."
David Moran
"Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:bln8ae$313$2...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> James Harris <jst...@msn.com> scribbled the following
> on sci.math:
> > One of the odder things I keep facing is my ability to explain a
> > rather basic argument in a very short space, which has *enormous*
> > implications, only to see mathematicians mostly walk away.
>
> James, have you ever considered the possibility that the reason why
> everyone who has looked at your proofs and said that you are wrong is
> that *you* *are* *wrong*?
>
question is if he doesn't care what anyone says, why does he post here?
> --
> /-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
> | Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
> | http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
> \----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
> "And according to Occam's Toothbrush, we only need to optimise the most
frequent
> instructions."
> - Teemu Kerola
David Moran
Arturo Magidin
David Moran <ktulwx...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>news:bln8ae$313$2...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
>> James Harris <jst...@msn.com> scribbled the following
>> on sci.math:
>> > One of the odder things I keep facing is my ability to explain a
>> > rather basic argument in a very short space, which has *enormous*
>> > implications, only to see mathematicians mostly walk away.
>>
>> James, have you ever considered the possibility that the reason why
>> everyone who has looked at your proofs and said that you are wrong is
>> that *you* *are* *wrong*?
>>
>No, He's too self absorbed in himself and won't care what anyone says. My
>question is if he doesn't care what anyone says, why does he post here?
Because he does not care what anyone says ->against his work<-, but he
is dying to hear people praise him and tell him how smart he is. Just
look at how he reacts when anyone says anything that is either
encouraging in any way, or even just curious, and see how quickly it
turns sour when they start asking ->questions<-.
======================================================================
"Why do you take so much trouble to expose such a reasoner as
Mr. Smith? I answer as a deceased friend of mine used to answer
on like occasions - A man's capacity is no measure of his power
to do mischief. Mr. Smith has untiring energy, which does
something; self-evident honesty of conviction, which does more;
and a long purse, which does most of all. He has made at least
ten publications, full of figures few readers can critize. A great
many people are staggered to this extend, that they imagine there
must be the indefinite "something" in the mysterious "all this".
They are brought to the point of suspicion that the mathematicians
ought not to treat "all this" with such undisguised contempt,
at least."
-- "A Budget of Paradoxes", Vol. 2 p. 129 by Augustus de Morgan
======================================================================
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
David Moran
"Arturo Magidin" <mag...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:blnnsn$2iiv$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...
> In article <blnnp0$emn70$1...@ID-206850.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> David Moran <ktulwx...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> >news:bln8ae$313$2...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> >> James Harris <jst...@msn.com> scribbled the following
> >> on sci.math:
> >> > One of the odder things I keep facing is my ability to explain a
> >> > rather basic argument in a very short space, which has *enormous*
> >> > implications, only to see mathematicians mostly walk away.
> >>
> >> James, have you ever considered the possibility that the reason why
> >> everyone who has looked at your proofs and said that you are wrong is
> >> that *you* *are* *wrong*?
> >>
> >No, He's too self absorbed in himself and won't care what anyone says. My
> >question is if he doesn't care what anyone says, why does he post here?
>
> Because he does not care what anyone says ->against his work<-, but he
> is dying to hear people praise him and tell him how smart he is. Just
> look at how he reacts when anyone says anything that is either
> encouraging in any way, or even just curious, and see how quickly it
> turns sour when they start asking ->questions<-.
>
beyond me.
Andy Spragg
front of the queue on 4 Oct 2003 14:54:12 -0700, and nailed this to
the shed door:
^ man, what's "hote" mean ?!?
^ > Looks like a donkey hôte to me... :-)
^ >
^ > But where's the windmill?
With a name like Quincy, you ought to recognize a quick soat when you
see one!
Andy
--
Hell! - don't worry about old "raving Dave" Ullrich ...
Basically he's a sociopath who can't see a red rag
without regarding it as a personal insult.
Bill Taylor, sci.math
The Ghost In The Machine
<spa...@globalnet.co.uk>
wrote
on Sun, 05 Oct 2003 05:50:17 GMT
<3f7fb061....@news.global.net.uk>:
> Qnc...@netscape.net (Brian Quincy Hutchings) pushed briefly to the
> front of the queue on 4 Oct 2003 14:54:12 -0700, and nailed this to
> the shed door:
>
> ^ man, what's "hote" mean ?!?
>
> ^ > Looks like a donkey hôte to me... :-)
> ^ >
> ^ > But where's the windmill?
>
> With a name like Quincy, you ought to recognize a quick
> soat when you see one!
I'll admit a quick soat after tilting at windmills works
every time to soak the tiredness from one's body... :-)
[.sigsnip]
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Gib Bogle
> "Arturo Magidin" <mag...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
> news:blnnsn$2iiv$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...
>
>>In article <blnnp0$emn70$1...@ID-206850.news.uni-berlin.de>,
>>David Moran <ktulwx...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>>>news:bln8ae$313$2...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
>>>
>>>>James Harris <jst...@msn.com> scribbled the following
>>>>on sci.math:
>>>>
>>>>>One of the odder things I keep facing is my ability to explain a
>>>>>rather basic argument in a very short space, which has *enormous*
>>>>>implications, only to see mathematicians mostly walk away.
>>>>
>>>>James, have you ever considered the possibility that the reason why
>>>>everyone who has looked at your proofs and said that you are wrong is
>>>>that *you* *are* *wrong*?
>>>>
>>>
>>>No, He's too self absorbed in himself and won't care what anyone says. My
>>>question is if he doesn't care what anyone says, why does he post here?
>>
>>Because he does not care what anyone says ->against his work<-, but he
>>is dying to hear people praise him and tell him how smart he is. Just
>>look at how he reacts when anyone says anything that is either
>>encouraging in any way, or even just curious, and see how quickly it
>>turns sour when they start asking ->questions<-.
>>
>
> Good Point. I've noticed he takes offense to anyone asking questions, why is
> beyond me.
A profound sense of insecurity, masked by bluster.
Gib
ed
funny stuff, for sure. people think that artists and mathematicians
are so different, but we have one thing in common: fairly large egos
:)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ed
webmaster: <a href="http://www.edu-directory.org/">Continuing
Education</a>