12th dan?
porter96
>> Shihan John Willson from the Bujinkan Canada is a 12th dan,
>> it's a matter of dedication, ...
I can't really tell if the author is being sarcastic or serious, so I
won't comment on some of the "are you jealous???" type statements ...
but I had a more general question.
I was under the impression that 10th dan was the highest you could go,
that there was only one of these per system and he was usually some old
Japanese guy. Obviously the "Japanese guy" part isn't necessarily true
... but I thought the upper limit being 10th dan was.
What's the need for a rank of 12th dan? Politics? Ego? To me it seems
that those are the only two reasons.
Steve
Testing for 2nd brown in 11 days.
Will Goodwin
bunk, I imagine if it is an Americanized system, or it's not even based off
of Japanese or Okinawan Martial Arts, they might go higher than 10th, but
even then I think it's idiotic, IMHO.
"porter96" <port...@lycos.com> wrote in message
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MH
> More often than not, if someone even claims 11th Dan I find them full of
> bunk, I imagine if it is an Americanized system, or it's not even based off
> of Japanese or Okinawan Martial Arts, they might go higher than 10th, but
> even then I think it's idiotic, IMHO.
Bujinkan ninjutsu/taijutsu has 14 (or 15 dan I have to ask one of my
B-kan friends) grades.
It is their thing, and Im not going to critizise them for anything.
Judo has 12 (or was it 13?) dan ranks (altough noone exept kano, the
founder of judo) has gone above 10, and for him it was given after his
death.
There are a few karate styles that also has over 10 dan (one very minor
shotokan faction, among others), but most of them are not of japanese or
okinawan in origin (that means that they are created in the west, by
mixing other styles).
But as most of you know, _almost_ all serious karate styles has dan
grades that goes to 10, and some even stop at 8 or 6.
Martin H
--
These are excerpted from a list of English subtitles used in martial
arts films made in Hong Kong:
#11. I'll fire aimlessly if you don't come out!
Storys
> that there was only one of these per system and he was usually some old
> Japanese guy. Obviously the "Japanese guy" part isn't necessarily true
> ... but I thought the upper limit being 10th dan was.
>
> What's the need for a rank of 12th dan? Politics? Ego? To me it seems
> that those are the only two reasons.
>
This *can* vary with the style. Normally tenth is it. It goes above ten in
Judo I know because Kano was forced to accept a tenth Dan by the Japanese
Govt. as the head of style. He immediately set up a few more Dans above
tenth as he felt that he did not know everything himself. I believe he was
promoted above tenth after his death. Some American styles go as high as 15
dans or so I've heard. I reallly don't know why you need more Dans but some
feel the need I guess.
> Steve
> Testing for 2nd brown in 11 days.
Best of luck with your test.
...............Tom..................
MH
> This *can* vary with the style. Normally tenth is it. It goes above ten in
> Judo I know because Kano was forced to accept a tenth Dan by the Japanese
> Govt. as the head of style. He immediately set up a few more Dans above
> tenth as he felt that he did not know everything himself. I believe he was
> promoted above tenth after his death.
I once started a discussion on the Kano and his dan grade at e-budo.com.
among the answers was this:
<quote>
from "Illustrated Kodokan Judo" Kodansha 1955, p.284
Ranks in Judo
The present Grading system of the Kodokan Judo was established by the
late Prof. Kano.
[snip]
Rokkyû..............means....Sixth Kyû
Gokyû....................".........Fifth Kyû.........White Belt
Shikyû or Yonkyû..".........Fourth Kyû
Sankyû..................".........Third Kyû
Nikyû.....................".........Second Kyû....Brown Belt (Violet
Belt in the Junior division--boys)
Ikkyû.....................".........First Kyû
Shodan..................".........First Dan
Nidan.....................".........Second Dan
Sandan..................".........Third Dan.........Black Belt
Yodan....................".........Fourth Dan
Godan....................".........Fifth Dan
Rokudan................".........Sixth Dan
Shichidan..............".........Seventh Dan...Belt of Red and White
Sections (or Black Belt)
Hachidan...............".........Eighth Dan
Kudan....................".........Ninth Dan
Jûdan....................".........Tenth Dan.........Red Belt (or Black
Belt)
Jûichidan..............".........Eleventh Dan
Jûnidan.................".........Twelfth Dan......White Belt (or Black
Belt)
Shihan...................".........Doctor or Pastmaster
(see notice)
Notes:
(1) The title of "Shihan" ("Doctor" or "Pastmaster") is conferred on a
Judoka who has been promoted to 12th Dan. This title has not in fact
been conferred on any Judoka except the late Prof. Kano, our founder who
awarded it to himself. The colour of the belt to be worn by a Shihan is
white, to indicate that it stands above both Dan and Kyû coloured belts;
but it is wider than that worn by the first three Kyû grades so as to
distinguish it from them. However a Shihan may also wear an ordinary
black belt if he so wishes.
<end quote>
<Martin again>
Among the answers was also a story very similar to what Tom gave above.
They awarded Kano with a 10 dan, he created a 11 dan. and after his
death they promoted him higher.
Altough the learned Judo scholars on the site could not agree to if he
was given 12 dan or was promoted directly to shihan, they all finaly
agreed that there was 12 dan levels (altough 2 have never been given to
anyone but Kano for 11, and maybe kano for 12).
Also a note is that at 11 dan and up, the belt should be double the
width of a normal belt for the red or withe belt (the plain black belt,
should be a plain ordinary black belt)
Martin H
--
These are excerpted from a list of English subtitles used in martial
arts films made in Hong Kong:
#7. Take my advice, or I'll spank you without pants.
Storys
"MH" <Der...@removetheobvoiusspamblocktomail.swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:3D598E3C...@removetheobvoiusspamblocktomail.swipnet.se...
I once started a discussion on the Kano and his dan grade at e-budo.com.
among the answers was this:
Thank you Martin! I knew that it was something like this but I didn't really
know the whole deal hence my vague answer.
So how's the weather in Sweden? Haven't heard from my friends in your neck
of the woods in some weeks so I don't really know what's happening over
there. Here we're in the middle of a heat wave 33 plus & with humidex it's
like over 40!
................Tom......................
murrayinc
fighting ability and form expertise. Fighting kept you alive then. Funakoshi
was the last master to allow himself, at the urging of his high ranked
students, to keep with Judo rank system and be a 10th degree. There are no
young or middle aged 10th degrees! If you see one...it's a lie. To be a 10th
degree is a high state of honor given to one who's life has been dedicated
to the particular style of training. Once again...it's given to you by a
respected body of high ranking elders. Anyone who ranks themselfs to such a
level is a liar and a fraud. Most are in there 70's or 80's. Respect from
the martial arts community for those just before the grave. The highest
fighting rank is considered a 5th degree and is given for what you can
do...not who you are.
Rod Murray, 56
8th degree
Okinawa Seitoryu
Seattle, WA
"Storys" <sto...@delete.execulink.com> wrote in message
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Storys
"murrayinc" <murr...@attbi.com> wrote in message
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> students, to keep with Judo rank system and be a 10th degree. There are no
> young or middle aged 10th degrees! If you see one...it's a lie. To be a
10th
> degree is a high state of honor given to one who's life has been dedicated
> to the particular style of training. Once again...it's given to you by a
> respected body of high ranking elders.
Sorry I have to disagree here. Yagi Meitatsu is 53 I believe and is a tenth
DanGoju Ryu In fact the particular style of Goju is the family style that
inherited the belt and Gi of Myiagi Chogun. He is recognised by Yagi Meitoku
Grand master of the style and one of the Living treasures of Japan. He was
ranked this when Yagi Meitoku wanted to take a less active trole in the day
to day functioning of the style & he spends much of his time visiting around
the world and teaching. I agree those who take an airline promotion to tenth
/dan or whatever are both frauds & fakes but you are simply wrong in much of
what you say
> Anyone who ranks themselfs to such a
> level is a liar and a fraud. Most are in there 70's or 80's.
Dai Sensei Yagi Meitoku is in his 90s I believe He was the senior student of
Myiagi Chogun.
...........Tom.....................
Kim Pleshardt
Shihan H. Kanazawa 10.Dan
http://www.skif.dk/eng_kancho.htm
"murrayinc" <murr...@attbi.com> skrev i en meddelelse
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