DOJO questions
John Anderson
annual membership (one of the things as recall that qualifys as mcdojo) just
came due and the rate has been increased by 30%. I have been checking
around (the master would bounce me for just asking questions if he knew) to
find out what other clubs charge, requirements etc.
So here goes:
What do other DoJo's charge on a per person rate? Are they monthly or
annual?
As part of our "leadership training" we are required to help train some of
the lower belts, (one class a week) is this a common practice?
I am a first brown, next belt is black, do other DoJo's have "teaching"
requirements?
I realize if I start in another style I will have to start over again, do
most other DoJo's at least keep in mind previous training and promote more
quickly because of it?
--
John Anderson
*******************
Methodman
which is very cheap it may rise shortly but its still good value,
some of the higer grades(browns) are encouraged to take the class for warm
ups etc.
we pay £10 for our license per year and theres a £10 joining fee when u
first start, so really it costs next to nothing for me in the uk to enjoy my
karate and get decent training.
"John Anderson" <janderson3$$@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:XVjr9.29758$VQ.10...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
--->RAD<---
to the dojo to use whenever I want. I can train six days a week if I choose
to.
As far as the teaching, I think alot of dojo's do this. You can learn alot
by teaching others.
RAD
John Anderson <janderson3$$@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:XVjr9.29758$VQ.10...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
porter96
> What do other DoJo's charge on a per person rate? Are they monthly or
> annual?
$65 per month with no contracts. Belt tests are $30 but at the moment
that's only about once every 6-8 months. There was probably a
registration fee when I started. Our "family rates" give me a little
bit of a break for my daughter. She attends for $50 per month.
> As part of our "leadership training" we are required to help train some of
> the lower belts, (one class a week) is this a common practice?
> I am a first brown, next belt is black, do other DoJo's have "teaching"
> requirements?
I'm 2nd brown and though I've taught a class here and there usually to
help out when Sensei has something he can't get out of ... but that's
infrequent. Most of my teaching experience is in class when we break up
into groups. I would agree with RAD "You can learn a lot by teaching
others."
Steve
John Anderson
"--->RAD<---" <nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> As far as the teaching, I think alot of dojo's do this. You can learn
alot
> by teaching others.
>
> RAD
I agree and that is certainly the grand masters agruement. However a lot of
people look at it as "working for free" After all we are paying to take
classes not teach them.
My DoJO has a yearly contract and the fee is higher than anything mentioned
so far ($2600 for a family of three).
Perhaps if there were no annual fee and it cost less, people would look at
it more as "helping out" instead free labor.
-JA
Terry Brow
It is healthy to shop around. Is it really the case that your master would
bounce you for asking around? If he did, he might be doing you a favor. Now,
if there is something amazing about your master (magnificent credentials,
exceptional teaching and coaching abilities) then you indeed may want to
think twice before compromising your club membership.
My general rule: It is one thing to respect the master for his karate
knowledge and coaching; quite another to be afraid to ask simple questions.
These are not mutually exclusive goals. Masters are people and some people
are better at human relationships than others. In general, there is a huge
amount of over-capacity in the martial arts game, so most students can shop
around. Another way of looking at this: commit to your training more than
you commit to any one master.
Does you club say anything about "Seek Perfection of Character"? If so, take
your guidance from there.
Anyhow, in response to your questions:
My dojo is $65 a month. There is a $10 registration fee requested every year
but I'm not paying to have my data re-entered into the computer year after
year.
Brown and Black belts are strongly encouraged to assist junior classes, and
often lead the warmup.
If you move to another Dojo, then you may or may not have to repeat some
belts. For example, in my area, most of the Shotokan clubs fall under the
Internatial Shotokan Karate Federation so as long as you pick a club like
that you (probably) wouldn't have to re-test. On the other hand, it has
occurred to some senseis to declare themselve the president and ruler of
"Joe Smith Karate Federation" and may not be recognized by whatever
Federation your training has been constituted under to date.
Big towns have more choices.
Regards,
Marion Boulden
requirement, as well as a thesis requirement. but:
1. All classes are lead by black belts, lower belts generally only assist.
2. Sifu, an 8th deg. black belt under Huk Planas, still teaches a significant
portion of classes at all levels, and more often than not is on the floor
helping students even if he's not leading class
3. It's not unusual for students from other, less expensive, Am. Kenpo schools
in the area to quit their own school and come join our school
4. Sifu has been teaching for about 35 years now and there are a lot of his
black belts that have stuck around nearly that long to teach and train with
him. Often there are 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 8th (Sifu) degree's on the mat
teaching the regular adult classes.
John Anderson
"Marion Boulden" <Marion....@oracle.com> wrote in message
news:3DB76F88...@oracle.com...
>snip<
> 4. Sifu has been teaching for about 35 years now and there are a lot of
his
> black belts that have stuck around nearly that long to teach and train
with
> him. Often there are 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 8th (Sifu) degree's on the
mat
> teaching the regular adult classes.
>
>
I guess this was another of my concerns, most of the black belts in the
school have left, with only three senior blackbelts left, 3rd, 4th and 5th
degree, and of these one is a college student that can only make a minimal
amount of classes, another is high school senior and will be going away to
college next fall.
The Hanchi of the school (9th degree) is awesome in his knowledge, but he is
so competition oriented (stresses perfect stances and technique to the
exclusion of responce time and reaction) that I question the self deffense
value.
-JA
sounds like I am talking myself out of this school
S. Lockhart
martial arts school.I run a MMA school and i'm not knocking Karate or
traditional ways but it sounds like you have the same complaint that
most of the "karate guys" that have joined my school have.They complain
about high rates at their former schools with always "extra" things to
pay for.They also claim to not miss calling someone master.At my school
the price is $50 per month for 10 classes a week.7 night and 3 day
classes.There is no "extra crap to buy" and it is a really relaxed
atmosphere.I or another instructor will train off to the side with the
beginners and the other guys do their thing.It's pretty cheap as
compared to almost any other places.It seems to me that most schools of
this style are a good price.
Hope I didn't come off as "knocking" traditional schools.I
actually employ a karate instructor who has classes 2 nights a
week(another benefit of MMA style schools,the opportunity to cross-train
without extra cost).
Thanks
CR
the "traditional" schools and use 12 or 24 month contracts. They also are
typically much larger. Hmmmm.
I think teaching is a fantastic way to continue your learning from a
different perspective. Often lower belt ranks ask some very good questions
about a technique or principle which you "thought" you knew really well
already. Teaching/assisting for free can be abused however.
Students from other styles in our school ALL start at white belt, but are
allowed to wear a colored stripe on their belt corresponding to the belt
rank achieved in another system. In a short time the folks you train with
will be well aware of your competency level so shouldn't be a big deal.
Belt promotion at our school depends on knowing the basics, techniques, and
forms for that particular belt. With previous training you'll progress
faster than a beginner with no training, you already know footwork, punches,
blocks etc and will be able to focus on the specific techniques and forms.
Sounds like you have outgrown the school you are at and are doing the right
thing by looking for another one. If you find a school you are happy with,
you'll probably be more inclined to help out teaching also.
I'd try to swing a week of group classes if you can before signing up
anywhere. Seems like even schools of the same style can have dramatic
differences in philosophy, culture, what is emphasized during class, student
composition etc. Different owners/instructors will focus on tournaments and
competitions, blood and guts sparring and knuckle pushups on wooden floors,
or family oriented etc etc.
Good luck
"S. Lockhart" <SLock...@webtv.net> wrote in message
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John Anderson
"S. Lockhart" <SLock...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:15203-3DB...@storefull-2294.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Your schools sounds just like what I am looking for. There is a mixed
martial arts school close to me that teaches gracie jujitsu plus kick boxing
and I know they have some of the best senseis from my current school there,
this maybe just what I need to check into.
Where is your school located?
-JA
Keefe Roedersheimer
only been studying for about a year. However, I have had the opportunity to
train at two very good karate schools.
Both schools had dues in the area of $50 per month, with some discounts.
Money was never the objective of any of my instructors, they did it for the
love of karate-do. Teaching assistance by brown belts was common, but the
attitude in the schools I attended was always that it was an opportunity not
a burden.
I was warned by several people when seeking a new school in my college town
to be very wary of schools that had yearly contracts .
Keefe Roedersheimer
CR
IF you have had a chance to participate in a couple of classes and feel
comfortable that you have found a school and instructor where you wish to
train.
If you are committed to training and making classes, shouldn't be a problem.
Our school has both 12 month contracts and monthly and per class, the
monthly rate for 12 months is less expensive than the montly rate. And in
the same vein, the monthly rate is less than the per class rate, and the per
class rate is cheaper than a private lesson. Don't know what the discounts
were that you refer to in previous post, but here it's directly related to
length of your committment.
From the school owner's point of view, I think he'd rather know how much $
he is likely to have coming in next month, so he can know whether he will be
squeezed to make rent or if he'll have enough cushion to invite in an
expensive special guest instructor for example, or to make some improvements
to the school. That's one reason why he wants a contract.
Of course if the owner has another job/income source which pays his bills
then that gives him flexibility to do monthly, per class or whatever without
having to worry about revenue.
Other reason for a contract may relate to type of school. A hard core
school with instructor who teaches only select students cause they are
serious and dedicated when they walk in the door may not need contracts
cause folks will be there no matter what. BUT, as martial arts have
expanded to include the masses many schools believe they can forge a "black
belt attitude" in folks (mostly kids) who might not have it walking in the
door. But it can't be done in a month. Having a 12 month contract means
that parents are more likely to continue to bring kids in when they fade a
little, or when things get busy during holidays etc (pick the excuse). This
means they are with it for at least a year, and I'd think increase the odds
that they'll stick with it long term since they were'nt given and easy out
the first few weeks/months. Attitude is something that can be taught, at
least in kids. (Yes us adults may be beyond hope).
My (long posting of) $.02 worth.
"Keefe Roedersheimer" <km...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:kkGz9.5487$mN6.2...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
John Anderson
as it is not ridiculously expensive and it is all-inclusive.
At my old dojo they had an annual fee which was about $90 per month per
person for a family of three, (which they raised by 30% this past year-the
reason I quit) They also had a "black belt" club basically it gave you the
opportunity to pay for three years in advance and avoid increases, and they
ran special "Masters" classes on the weekend (for an additional charge) that
prepared you for your next rank.
The style was Sanshin-aiki, an American style named by the 10 degree
master. The Aiki part stands for Aikido, yet when they ran Aikido classes
there was an additional charge. Aikido classes were not being run at the
time and friend asked the master if he could join a local Aikido club to
advance his knowledge. The master said "no way and if you do I will dismiss
you". In fact the master got real upset if anyone even TALKED to someone
else about their school, much less practiced at home with them.
Just in my opinion some things to watch out for
--
John Anderson
*******************
"CR" <c2d2...@gate.net> wrote in message
news:rnuA9.12512$wO4....@news.bellsouth.net...
Brent May
my pocket too.
Long term contacts, I have to agree with CR as far as that goes. The
owner needs to have the abilty to budget. Having been involved with my
school for a long time, we went from month to month and the head instructor
was more of a collection agency at times and it was hard to plan anything.
Now the long term contract method is in and working well. Just be careful of
the added costs and think them over well before commiting.
John's comments reguarding the old dojo's tactics, unfortunatly, there's
lots of them out there......be careful again of the add-ons. In my opinion,
it sounded as if the "Master" was a little uncomfortable with his students
"expanding their martial arts horisons". Why? Personally, I encorage my
students to keep an open mind, look at other styles, I have nothing to hide.
I know my background, and that of my teachers, and their teachers. I think
that if you aren't allowed to look at other schools or even TALK to them,
something is very wrong.
I all boils down to what you are comfortable with, and what works for
you.
Good luck
Brent Maynews:WatC9.62168$hp5.8...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Keefe Roedersheimer
it out there that with my giant year of experience in martial arts, I do not
feel qualified to offer much of an opinion. The only thing that I was trying
to pass along in my post was the advice I was offered by several people when
I moved from my original Dojo for graduate school Both of the schools that I
trained at were populated by mostly very hardcore people that you mentioned.
I was told by various people that most people drop out of training by the 6
month mark - and the logic behind not having a contract was to let those
people who had not found the right style or even a useful path for them in
the martial arts could get out when they wanted to without being out a bunch
of money. Personally, I was only able to join my first dojo for 6 months
because I had to leave for graduate school after that - looking back I would
gladly have paid the extra 6 for the experience, but I don't know what I
would have thought about that at the very beginning. I definitely think that
there is a need for owners to do a budget. Like I said, I don't have enough
knowledge to make any really intelligent comments here - that being said I'm
going to throw my opinion out there anyway.
Beware mathematics major's point of view follows:
Is there any hard data on an overall average turnover rate? If it really is
6 months, maybe a 6 month contract would offer more flexibility with some
planning advantages as well? As I see it there is a contiuum (however you
spell it) from paying by the lesson to paying by the year or two or whatever
increment of time that you want to have. As I see it, a month is also a
contract just a shorter one. I think this is probably a pretty well studied
problem in marketing as well as in mathematics. If we had some statistical
data to march through some sort of analysis there seems like there should be
a way to optimize a contract to balance monetary needs and flexibility.
(Simplex method maybe?) Of course, this would probably not give out a very
nice contract from a social engineering point of view. Did anyone even read
this far into my little rant?
KR
"CR" <c2d2...@gate.net> wrote in message
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