^v^ Why I hate SKM
secretord...@mindspring.com
good only for keeping my food refrigerated?
Read this:
---------------
The first time I saw the Japanese instructors in this country, in the
early 1970's, Sensei's Enoeda, Asano, Tomita, Kawasoe and Kato, I
thought..."These people move so fast and incredibly smooth, this is
exactly what I want!" I trained on many courses with these
instructors. The thing that started to get the message across for me
was that their 'speed' of movement was not seemingly based on youthful
vigor as with the young competition athletes of the day. This was
'not' the same type of speed (in terms of body-movement) associated
with a naturally gifted, young, speedy athlete. It was a technique of
body-movement. All the JKA (Japanese) Shotokan people I have seen, the
movement is smooth and is instigated from their hips. Their hips
definitely lead their shoulders in the forward thrusting motion of the
legs, unlike many European Shotokan people I have observed. They just
do not have this same technique. This I feel and believe is the key
and the reason that all the older Japanese Shotokan people can still
move so smoothly and so incredibly fast for their age. They have,
through technique, maintained body-speed and especially leg-speed. The
whole system is focused on movement coming from the waist down. Hips -
lower abdomen - legs and ankles. This gives them the 'speed' of
movement instigated from the legs - floor. Westerners have all the
upper-body power they need and are a match and more for anyone on that
score. Of course westerners are also great athletes, as we have now
seen many times, we can beat Japan in competition but this type of
speed declines with age. The first thing to 'go' with a soccer player
are his legs or rather his leg-speed. This also applies to almost all
other physical sports, American Football, Boxing, Tennis etc., the
legs go first! Hand and arm speed can be maintained with many people
into old age. This has been seen many times. Also upper-body strength
can be preserved. You have probably experienced a very strong
hand-shake from an old man in your time and been surprised by it.
Their grip and arm strength can be very powerful even into their
seventies and eighties.
The point of this article is, I believe, that by studying the Shotokan
system and body movement - principles as laid down by Nakayama Sensei,
it is possible, with constant practice to retain leg-speed well into
old age. Whereas other sportsman's legs would be ready for retirement
at fifty or possibly be more in tune and ready for a round of golf at
the most.
--------------
This incredibly tedious and boring piece of text can be distilled into
two sentences: "My name is John Cheetham, and I think Japanese are
inherently superior culturally and physically to us. I also have no
idea why athlete's legs give out on them."
If SKM authors truly read this newsgroup, would one of them please
clue in Mr. Cheetham that
(a) there is only one type of speed - either you are fast or you are
not - the method of generation is unimportant - only a means to an
end. Has it never occurred to him that young and naturally gifted
athletes are fast because they already know what it took JKA
instructors 20 years to learn: how to relax (plus a helping of white
blood cells)?!?
(b) Japanese senior instructors are no more skilled that the Western
senior instructors, and in the case of Mr. Enoeda, you can just look
at a picture of his poor posture in many techniques and see that Bob
Poynton and Terry O'neil and others are more skilled than he.
(c) Athlete's legs give out from over-use and abuse in physically
demanding and damaging movements - not from lack of use.
(d) Nakayama did not define all of the principles for Shotokan karate
- many senior Japanese instructors disagree with just about everything
he wrote and said. If you don't know that, then you don't know any of
them on a personal level enough to hear it said over beer.
John Cheetham needs deprogramming. Just what Shotokan needed - one of
"the brainwashed zealots" doing the paper publishing for our art.
Blech!
--
Rob Redmond | secretord...@mindspring.com
Atlanta Karate Club | http://bigred.home.mindspring.com/
JKA Shotokan Karate | Member of the Secret Order of the ^v^
secretord...@mindspring.com
wrote:
: (plus a helping of white
:blood cells)?!?
Make that a helping of white muscle cells - but white blood cells are
a good thing too. :-)
Oops.
George Winter
wrote:
>On Sun, 02 Aug 1998 13:29:15 -0400, secretord...@mindspring.com
>wrote:
>
>: (plus a helping of white
>:blood cells)?!?
>
>Make that a helping of white muscle cells - but white blood cells are
>a good thing too. :-)
>
Thanks I was wondering about that one. Helps fight off muscle
diseases?
--
George
_____________________________________________________________________
George Winter gwi...@q-sys.com
Qsys Ltd.
Information Systems Consulting
Joel Young
secretord...@mindspring.com writes:
> Want to know why I think Shotokan Karate Magazine is a fish-wrapper
> good only for keeping my food refrigerated?
>
> Read this:
> ---------------
> The first time I saw the Japanese instructors in this country, in the
I think that the japanese move so smoothly because they are at one
with themselves and the universe and that they can tell what you
are going to do before you do because they can see the resulting
harmonics in themselves and that they practice five hours per day
and that they respect their elders and all sentient beings.
...misquote...
> the most.
> --------------
Please cite source. A quote of that size probably passes beyond
fair use.
Joel Young
jyo...@erols.com
william fidell
wrote:
>Want to know why I think Shotokan Karate Magazine is a fish-wrapper
>good only for keeping my food refrigerated?
> snip etc etc.
The good points though that it is a magazine devoted to shotokan,
which gets mentioned shag all in other ( UK ) magazines. But it does
have the attitude that we're not worthy.
On a general magazine point I think most of the magazines are poor.
Either badly written and presented or without content. Or written
about and for a close group of 20 or so people, who all train
together, live in the same area, or are related.
Wills
secretord...@mindspring.com
:The good points though that it is a magazine devoted to shotokan,
:which gets mentioned shag all in other ( UK ) magazines.
:But it does have the attitude that we're not worthy.
There are the trivia bits that are interesting - but the nonsense
about not being worthy is intolerable. It is a cult artifact - Japan
worship - not intelligent discussion and reporting.
:On a general magazine point I think most of the magazines are poor.
:Either badly written and presented or without content. Or written
:about and for a close group of 20 or so people, who all train
:together, live in the same area, or are related.
Being better than bad is not necessarily "good." It's "better" - and
that is a purely relative term.
Mark A Goetsch
secretord...@mindspring.com wrote in article
<35ca09ab...@news.mindspring.com>...
> :On a general magazine point I think most of the magazines are poor.
> :Either badly written and presented or without content. Or written
> :about and for a close group of 20 or so people, who all train
> :together, live in the same area, or are related.
>
> Being better than bad is not necessarily "good." It's "better" - and
> that is a purely relative term.
One newspaper that I have enjoyed recently is Dragon Times. The magazine
can
get a tad Okinawan but the research into the origins of Japanese Martial
Arts is
superb. Some of the stuff that they print just cannot be found. They
pontificate Mr. Higaonna a little too much but they have so many other good
points.
Mark
william fidell
wrote:
>
>Being better than bad is not necessarily "good." It's "better" - and
>that is a purely relative term.
>
True, I'm not defending SKM's quality but it's intentions.
Anyway, what do you think would make a good magazine?
In this I am assuming that the shotokan market is big enough to make a
monthly magazine viable.
I what I would like to see, in no particular order other than how the
come to me :
1 ) Techinque focus
2 ) Kata and bunkai
3 ) No what I did on my summer camp was
4 ) Interviews, style and favoured techniques of quality karateka
5 ) Well written, presented and colourful.
6 ) Sport and competition section.
If we are not happy about the coverage given to us then maybe we
should produce the coverage ourselves.
Cheers
Wills
George Winter
wrote:
>
>One newspaper that I have enjoyed recently is Dragon Times. The magazine
>can
>get a tad Okinawan but the research into the origins of Japanese Martial
>Arts is
>superb. Some of the stuff that they print just cannot be found. They
>pontificate Mr. Higaonna a little too much but they have so many other good
>points.
I've been meaning to plug this mag as well. I got a few free issues
with a video tape purchase. Considering *massive* hype they give any
karateka who makes videos for them, & the overall low-quality
appearence (it is printed on newspaper stock) I was sure to hate it.
But I have found 2-3 articles in each that were informative & worth
the effort.
User748346
wrote:
>One newspaper that I have enjoyed recently is Dragon Times.
Is Dragon Times available Mail order in The UK?
Phil.
Phil Cooper
user7...@aol.com
George Winter
>On 4 Aug 1998 21:41:11 GMT, "Mark A Goetsch" <no...@cyberconnect.com>
>wrote:
>
> >One newspaper that I have enjoyed recently is Dragon Times.
>
>Is Dragon Times available Mail order in The UK?
check their web-site at http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/
Rose Humphrey
secretord...@mindspring.com quoted from SKM:
>
> The first time I saw the Japanese instructors in this country, in the
> early 1970's, Sensei's Enoeda, Asano, Tomita, Kawasoe and Kato, I
> thought..."These people move so fast and incredibly smooth, this is
> exactly what I want!"
I remember seeing Mr Enoeda on television in the mid-1970's. He was indeed moving very fast and smooth (from the waist up, anyway) in an advert for potato crisps. Is this what Mr Cheetham was referring to?
--
Rose
Ged Moran
Yes..... that's the same one..... he did receive £11,000 ($17,000) for it though.
--
Ged Moran
George Winter
<in...@legendtv.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Yes..... that's the same one..... he did receive £11,000 ($17,000) for it though.
And I say congratulations. That's 17,000 more than any of us will ever
get for knowing karate.
P. Bromaghin
secretorderofthe___ wrote
>
> (a) there is only one type of speed - either you are fast or you are
> not - the method of generation is unimportant - only a means to an
> end. Has it never occurred to him that young and naturally gifted
> athletes are fast because they already know what it took JKA
> instructors 20 years to learn: how to relax (plus a helping of white
> blood cells)?!?
>
> (c) Athlete's legs give out from over-use and abuse in physically
> demanding and damaging movements - not from lack of use.
>
There are some other big factors that make martial artists different. We
engage in what are essentially 1-yard dashes, there is no starting gun, and
there is not only no penalty for false starts, they are encouraged. This
gives sly old guys with good timing a big advantage that old guys in
another sport don't have.
Bradley Webb
>
> On Wed, 05 Aug 1998 23:48:22 +0000 (GMT), Ged Moran
> <in...@legendtv.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >Yes..... that's the same one..... he did receive £11,000
> >($17,000) for it though.
>
> And I say congratulations. That's 17,000 more than any of us will ever
> get for knowing karate.
Hey I want to be the next Claude Van Jean-Valkenberg!
Or maybe Rob will volunteer for this arduous task.
Call me Commercial boy :).
Brad.
--
Brad Webb, 972-231-4922 Nortel Info Systems, 972-684-1737
Japan Shotokan Karate Dallas/Richardson TX.
JKA Dallas http://www.dallas.net/jka/
George Winter
wrote:
>I've been meaning to plug this mag as well. I got a few free issues
>with a video tape purchase. Considering *massive* hype they give any
>karateka who makes videos for them, & the overall low-quality
>appearence (it is printed on newspaper stock) I was sure to hate it.
>But I have found 2-3 articles in each that were informative & worth
>the effort.
I recently read most of the articles in the current issue, I very much
enjoyed "The Evolution of Shotokan Stances" by Harry Cook, & a piece
on "Shorin Ryu Karate" & "Karate's first books" by Graham Noble, & a
contemporary historical account of japanese martial arts in the late
1880's. But there was also a piece by Akihiro Omi on "Shindo Jinen
Ryu" here we see the magazine take a nose dive, (remember it is a
newspaper format), 6! full columns on the history of japan; from its
geological formation (I am not making this up) through the Meiji
restoration. Then about 3 full columns & some pictures on the creator
of the style Konishi Yasuhiro. Unbelievable, either the magazine does
not have an editor, or they simply stuck together 2 completely
unrelated articles. I think this magazine is one that lives & dies by
its contributors. There is gobs of in-house hype (they are marketing a
Shindo Jinen Ryu video btw) which is probably the editors
contribution, & some decent articles, which is probably just their
good luck.
Bradley Webb
> secretorderofthe___ wrote
> > (a) there is only one type of speed - either you are fast or you are
> > not - the method of generation is unimportant - only a means to an
> > end. Has it never occurred to him that young and naturally gifted
> > athletes are fast because they already know what it took JKA
> > instructors 20 years to learn: how to relax (plus a helping of white
> > blood cells)?!?
There are some things that can help substitute for speed...
1) Smooth action.
If you move well enough that the other person
doesn't realize you are coming until too late...
then it's still too late.
2) Perception skills,
Noting when the other guy is coming after you and
by the body action what he/she is going to do
helps us to get out of the way.
I'd still prefer to be young and naturally gifted though :0.
How about my boyish good looks?
Darb.