How long should it take to reach Shodan in Shotokan???
William the Phenom
Australia (chief instructor Sumi Sensei) and a freestyle Goju-based
club.
I train at the free-style club 3 times a week for nearly four years. At
the KUA Shotokan (which I may add has some of the finest Dan grades I
have ever seen) twice weekly, over 2 years. I also do additional
training at home. I am only a fifth kyu in each. However, the syllabus
of the Goju-style is huge and it will take another three years to reach
Shodan there. In the KUA however, I seem to pass grading with no
problems at all and I look at at the higher ranked kyu grades and I know
that Im more physically, mentally and spiritually advanced than they
are. I know 12 katas already, some of them cant remember Bassai Dai
(Please dont think I have a big ego...) The Sempai continues to question
why I am not taking grading because I feel I am not fulfilling the time
requirement needed to reach Shodan. At this rate, Ill be Shodan in 4
years. Basically I am asking is am I going too fast?
Filmagic01
>. At this rate, Ill be Shodan in 4
>years. Basically I am asking is am I going too fast?
>
the class catch up with you.
Is this a troll or what?
--
* My intuition nearly makes up for my lack of good judgment.
DevonErik
>However, the syllabus
>of the Goju-style is huge and it will take another three years to reach
>Shodan there. In the KUA however, I seem to pass grading with no
>problems at all and I look at at the higher ranked kyu grades and I know
>that Im more physically, mentally and spiritually advanced than they
>are.
And part of this spiritual advancement no doubt includes the inclination to
congratulate yourself on how spiritually advanced you are.
>I know 12 katas already
And I know how to curse in Zuni. That doesn't mean I speak the language.
>(Please dont think I have a big ego...)
You are saying this because, somewhere under there, you realize that you do.
Next, please.
Devon Erik Oslund
Thank you for not mangling the English language in my presence.
George Winter
<wkk...@camtech.net.au> wrote:
>I seem to pass grading with no
>problems at all
And what a surprise you practice regularly.
>and I look at at the higher ranked kyu grades and I know
>that Im more physically...
Not a surprise w/ 2 years training & 4 in another karate style you
have more training than they do.
>mentally and spiritually advanced than they
>are.
No you are less "mentally and spiritually" advanced than most
karateka, reread the statement, and then the following one. They sound
superficial & childish.
>I know 12 katas already, some of them cant remember Bassai Dai
there you go, pride, cutting notches in your gun for each kata, a
silly approach to training.
>(Please dont think I have a big ego...)
Too late. But is a big ego a bad thing? Is it something you can change
about yourself? I don't think so, make it work for you somehow.
>The Sempai continues to question
>why I am not taking grading
As do I. Are you afraid of not "pass grading with no
problems at all". Why not test when your instructors say you should?
They will let you know when you fail to meet their expectations.
>because I feel I am not fulfilling the time
>requirement needed to reach Shodan.
You are behind schedule already. An instructor has a rough schedule of
advancement for those who train regularly. If you have your own &
refuse testing, they are not going to object loudly. Personally It
bugs me when students cling to the "I'm not ready", I'd rather they
allow the instructors to make that decision.
>At this rate, Ill be Shodan in 4
>years. Basically I am asking is am I going too fast?
No not if it makes you happy. At this rate you will always have the
ego boost of being as good or better than your peers (in rank at
least).
--
George
_____________________________________________________________________
George Winter gwi...@q-sys.com
Qsys Ltd.
Information Systems Consulting
Andrew
..I train five times a week with two clubs, namely the Karate Union of
..Australia (chief instructor Sumi Sensei) and a freestyle Goju-based
..club.
A peculiar training mix, but whatever turns you on.
..I train at the free-style club 3 times a week for nearly four years. At
..the KUA Shotokan (which I may add has some of the finest Dan grades I
..have ever seen) twice weekly, over 2 years. I also do additional
..training at home.
So you have no real life. It's a good way to start out. No pesky
distractions.
.. I am only a fifth kyu in each.
After four and two years? What the hell is holding you back?
.. However, the syllabus
..of the Goju-style is huge and it will take another three years to reach
..Shodan there. In the KUA however, I seem to pass grading with no
..problems at all
Why is this? Analyse the requirements for each grading and see if you
can answer your own problem.
..I look at at the higher ranked kyu grades and I know
..that Im more physically, mentally and spiritually advanced than they
..are.
So you can tell the mental and spiritual advancement of someone just
by looking at them? I don't think so, Will.
Besides, how good your classmates are is irrelevent. You are training
for you, not them; your gradings are for how well you perform, not how
well they perform. So stop wasting your precious mental resources
making meaningless comparisons.
...I know 12 katas already, some of them cant remember Bassai Dai
You have been training for so long and you know only 12? I knew about
15 after 2 year's training. And I couldn't do any of them well.
What's your point?
..(Please dont think I have a big ego...)
It's difficult not to.
..The Sempai continues to question why I am not taking grading
Good. It seems as though you need to be hustled along.
..because I feel I am not fulfilling the time
..requirement needed to reach Shodan.
You are holding yourself back because you feel you don't meet an
administrative requirement? Ridiculous.
..At this rate, Ill be Shodan in 4 years. Basically I am asking is am I going too fast?
To fast for what? If you can talk the talk and walk the walk in less
time, why should you hang around. Especially since it is an
essentially meaningless grading - it's just another coloured belt.
Andrew Knowles
Exalted Whosis, GASP
Rodani
were allowed to wash only their uniforms, and the belts were to remain soiled.
Training usually started at the beginning of the year, when snow fell on the
earth. At that time, all of the belts were white. Then as time progressed,
grass grew and the belts would turn green from the repetitive ground training.
In the summer, the grass would disappear, and the training resumed on dirt,
thereby turning the belts brown. As training would continue, the brown belts
would turn black from the continue soiling. Then when winter arrived, the snow
covered ground would cleanse the belt white again. So the truth of the matter,
if you train hard and consistently, you should reach your shodan in one year.
Roberto A. Alvelais
I'll bet that ol Funakoshi did this under Azato.
BTW,
Did anyone tell you that there weren't belts of grade in karate until
Gich appropriated the idea from Kano?
"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world."
-Dave Barry
DevonErik
>The story about belts is a relatively new concept. In Okinawa,
>practictioners
>were allowed to wash only their uniforms, and the belts were to remain
>soiled.
Wrong. Okinawan practioners didn't wear uniforms or belts. These are a modern
innovation copied from Jigoro Kano's judo.
It is also somewhat ridiculous to believe that a people as scrupulously clean
as the Japanese would allow any article of their sweaty workoout clothing to go
unwashed.
>Training usually started at the beginning of the year, when snow fell on the
>earth. At that time, all of the belts were white. Then as time progressed,
>grass grew and the belts would turn green from the repetitive ground
>training.
>In the summer, the grass would disappear, and the training resumed on dirt,
>thereby turning the belts brown. As training would continue, the brown belts
>would turn black from the continue soiling. Then when winter arrived, the
>snow
>covered ground would cleanse the belt white again. So the truth of the
>matter,
>if you train hard and consistently, you should reach your shodan in one year.
This is the worst load of dingo's kidney's a have read in this newsgroup in a
long time, personal attacks on yours truly included.
This is not a forum for repeating dumb stories that you never had the brains to
question. We are actually trying to learn something here, and passing off silly
hearsay as the truth is not helpful.
Post something sensible, or vanish.
Devon Erik Oslund
*They've discovered the gene that makes men aggressive and belligerent...it is
located on the X chromosomes of their wives and girlfriends.
George Winter
On 20 Feb 1999 02:59:10 GMT, rod...@aol.com (Rodani) wrote:
>The story about belts is a relatively new concept. In Okinawa, practictioners
>were allowed to wash only their uniforms, and the belts were to remain soiled.
Well we know from *all* the writings of the Okinawans that they never
wore uniforms. Kano started the practice & Funakoshi & the other
karate masters followed the practice.
>Training usually started at the beginning of the year,
Training was continious
> when snow fell on the earth.
It doesn't snow in okinawa
from the cia world factbook.
Climate: varies from tropical in south to cool temperate in north --
the Ryukyu Islands are far to the south ie.Tropical
>At that time, all of the belts were white. Then as time progressed,
They practiced in their backyards & in open areas, all the pictures
show beaten earth (year round).
>grass grew and the belts would turn green from the repetitive ground training.
btw your scenario calls for grass growth in the "winter"
>In the summer, the grass would disappear, and the training resumed on dirt,
>thereby turning the belts brown.
Thats funny in my yard the grass grows in the summer.
>As training would continue, the brown belts
>would turn black from the continue soiling.
I've seen some nasty clothing, but you know nothing ever turns black.
>Then when winter arrived, the snow
>covered ground would cleanse the belt white again.
This would be a miricle to take a totally soiled garment, roll around
in slush in your bare skin (didn't training start in the spring?) and
have it come out white.
>So the truth of the matter,
I don't think you try to lie deliberately I think you are so totally
misinformed that I could tell you that cloud fairies make rain & you
would repeat it to all your friends. Guess what they would think you?
>if you train hard and consistently, you should reach your shodan in one year.
Not in shotokan you wont
PC Jensen
<snip silly yarn about how Okinawan karate-ka's liked to roll in the
dirt>
Triple BS. You take the prize for the worst load of crap dumped in
AMAKS in a long time.
You say you have been a karate instructor for more than 25 years. If
you are feeding your students this nonsense, I can imagine the kind of
classes you are giving. I bet the floor in your dojo is full of foot
gripping marks and scorched chi projection spots.
--
PC
aka "Kitaku"
http://inet.uni2.dk/home/pc
* *
Roberto A. Alvelais
Hey PC,
Tell him that his shoe is untied!
Rob
OOOOOSSSS!
<G>
"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world."
-Dave Barry
Karateka63
The survey out, questioning the influence that AMAKS has on lurkers, training
and or teaching. But if the survey finds that AMAKS has little influence, then
the question will remain why do us lurkers continue to regularly check in and
skim through the virtual mountains of text here on AMAKS?
This silly post from Rodani is the answer; Sheer entertainment value! People
like this provide a good belly laugh on a regular basis in here.
Don't take yourselves too seriously gang!
Bruce Flanagan
>The story about belts is a relatively new concept. In Okinawa,
>practictioners
>were allowed to wash only their uniforms, and the belts were to remain
>soiled.
Snip!
PC Jensen
wrote:
>Tell him that his shoe is untied!
OK. Hey, Rodani! Your shoe's untied!
Made you look!
PC Jensen
>Breaking from lurker mode:
>The survey out, questioning the influence that AMAKS has on lurkers, training
>and or teaching. But if the survey finds that AMAKS has little influence, then
>the question will remain why do us lurkers continue to regularly check in and
>skim through the virtual mountains of text here on AMAKS?
>This silly post from Rodani is the answer; Sheer entertainment value! People
>like this provide a good belly laugh on a regular basis in here.
You said it. But where did you learn to laugh at it? Did you laugh at
Rodanisms before you started reading amaks?
>Don't take yourselves too seriously gang!
But we take everything seriously! You know that, Bruce. What do you
recommend we do about it?
Filmagic01
>
> As training would continue, the brown belts
>would turn black from the continue soiling.
I heard the belt turned black because it would get covered with flies since you
not only couldn't wash it, but weren't allowed to take it off either.
Where do you teach, and what organization are you affiliated with?
--
* I honor my personality flaws, for without them I would have no personality at
all.
I want to go quietly in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming like his
passengers.
ven...@webtv.net
PC made 'im look.:-)
Bruce says:"Don't take yourselves so seriously, gang."
But Bruce-we are affecting nefariously and insidiously the minds of
karate practitioners everywhere.
That is defined in my book as Serious Busines.
For instance-hard to stop reading AMAKS, isn't it?You might miss a
Rodani or a Jason.
What you may not yet realize, as Kitaku pointed out to you, is that your
mind is now condintioned to recognize attempted dumping of bovine ecreta
in all phases of life,
Boy, that AMAKS Mind Control Gear finally works!:-)
Will Szlemko
> The story about belts is a relatively new concept. In Okinawa, practictioners
> were allowed to wash only their uniforms, and the belts were to remain soiled.
> Training usually started at the beginning of the year, when snow fell on the
> earth. At that time, all of the belts were white. Then as time progressed,
> grass grew and the belts would turn green from the repetitive ground training.
> In the summer, the grass would disappear, and the training resumed on dirt,
> thereby turning the belts brown. As training would continue, the brown belts
> would turn black from the continue soiling. Then when winter arrived, the snow
> covered ground would cleanse the belt white again. So the truth of the matter,
> if you train hard and consistently, you should reach your shodan in one year.
Although this story is often told to beginners and even accepted as fact by many it
is one of the most laughable stories of belt origination ever. The plain truth is
that for Kano to successfully make judo a sport and P.E. class he needed an
external ranking system that was easily visible and had a built in hierarchy. In
Japan or Okinawa either one if any article of clothing was soiled ot was washed
clean, if the stain would not come out it was standard practice to burn the article
of clothing.
Will Szlemko
Carpe Punctum
Manon
Young man wants to become enlightened, goes to priest.
"Tell me Sensei! How long to enlightenment?"
The roshi looks at him, says, " You are young and flexible, you look
trainable. Twenty years, no problem."
"What!!!!!????!!!! That's way too long! What if I sit zazen twice as much as
anyone else, and rake the sand twice daily?"
Roshi frowns, says, "Fifty years!"
"No way! Okay, I'll sit every second of every day, I will rake the sand 10
times a day, AND, I'll do all the ritual begging for everyone in the temple!
How long would that take?"
"A hundred lifetimes. Good bye."
"Wait, sensei! How can it be that the harder I work, the longer it takes!
That's not right!"
"If your eyes are only on the goal, how can you ever see the path?"
Old Zen story
William the Phenom wrote in message <36CB62FD...@camtech.net.au>...
>I train five times a week with two clubs, namely the Karate Union of
>Australia (chief instructor Sumi Sensei) and a freestyle Goju-based
>club.
>
>I train at the free-style club 3 times a week for nearly four years. At
>the KUA Shotokan (which I may add has some of the finest Dan grades I
>have ever seen) twice weekly, over 2 years. I also do additional
>training at home. I am only a fifth kyu in each. However, the syllabus
>of the Goju-style is huge and it will take another three years to reach
>Shodan there. In the KUA however, I seem to pass grading with no
>problems at all and I look at at the higher ranked kyu grades and I know
>that Im more physically, mentally and spiritually advanced than they
>are. I know 12 katas already, some of them cant remember Bassai Dai
>(Please dont think I have a big ego...) The Sempai continues to question
>why I am not taking grading because I feel I am not fulfilling the time
>requirement needed to reach Shodan. At this rate, Ill be Shodan in 4
ven...@webtv.net
Bzzzzt!
Flaming Grid Activated.
Fair Game.
Go to Defcon 1.
DevonErik
"Manon" <mmo...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>Here's my 2 cents
Too expensive. I'll give you a groat, 'cause I'm feeling generous today.
>Young man wants to become enlightened, goes to priest.
>"Tell me Sensei! How long to enlightenment?"
>The roshi looks at him, says, blah blah blah
Do you seriously think that there is *anyone* reading this newsgroup who hasn't
heard this story before? Many times?
It is a constant source of amazement to me that a human being can sit in front
of a connection to the most powerful communications network ever built, and
have nothing better to say than a vague platitude he got off someone else.
Is this the sum total of your existence, Mr. <mmo...@sprint.ca>? Repeating
dumb stories told to you by others? Surely you have *some* brilliance, *some*
insight, *some* thought that is original to you, *something* you feel
passionate about. Well, you're talking to the world, here, Mr.
<mmo...@sprint.ca>. You finally got your hands on the Big Microphone, and now
you're wasting your opportunity. Mark David Chapman, and many others, killed to
get the world's attention. All you have to do is type.
Of course, the problem is that you're not alone at the Big Microphone. Dozens
of others are right alongside you, and they're all shouting, too. It's a big
world out there, and every asshole in it has an opinion. The ultimate threat to
freedom of speech (whatever that may mean) is not censorship, but static.
Noise. The white noise of millions and millions of idiots just like you, Mr.
<mmo...@sprint.ca>, all blithering their opinions at the loudest volume they
can muster. Adds up to a lot of static, you bet, static generated by people
with nothing to say keep saying it just because they are in love with the sound
of their own voices. And there is no human being alive who is not in love with
the sound of his own voice.
And that, Mr. <mmo...@sprint.ca>, is the real problem with usenet. It is the
ultimate democracy. Your stupid opinion comes through at the same volume as
numerous informed, original, worthwhile, or even brilliant ones, and makes them
all harder to find, harder to read, harder to hear. And freedom of speech, a
quaint custom that most democracies, usenet included, hold dear, implies the
freedom to be heard. Anyone, anywhere, can speak his mind in a closet. It is
when speech is heard by others that it fulfils its purpose.
So you, see, Mr. <mmo...@sprint.ca>, behavior that democracies tend to
produce, and behavior that tends to preserve a democracy, are two entirely
different animals. For in the thunder generated by the babbling of millions
upon millions of the marching morons, how can an individual opinion be heard?
We cannot solve this problem by censorship, for, even if censorship wasn't
vile on its face, even if it didn't always proceed from an agenda, who would
wade through that sea of nonsense to spare the rest of us the trouble? Surely
those unlucky persons would be the most overworked human beings on earth.
So what can we do? What I am doing right now, that's what. Heaping public
scorn upon those who waste our time, in the hopes that they, and perhaps even
others, will be shamed into remaining silent until they find a word worth
speaking.
Devon Erik Oslund
Eoin Clarke
> The plain truth is that for Kano to successfully make judo a sport and P.E.
> class he needed an external ranking system that was easily visible and
had a > built in hierarchy.
> Will Szlemko
> Carpe Punctum
Ranking, be it social or based on percieved ability, is very important in
Japan. The Japanese use the 'kyu' ranking system in many different fields,
ranging from swimming lessons to English tests. It's not unique to the
martial arts.
Eoin
Eoin Clarke eo...@gol.com
George Winter
> Ranking, be it social or based on percieved ability, is very important in
>Japan. The Japanese use the 'kyu' ranking system in many different fields,
>ranging from swimming lessons to English tests. It's not unique to the
>martial arts.
And they did this long before Kano used kyu/dan for judo I assume?
Btw I have a friend who is Ni Dan in Go, ie he will give a Sho dan 1
stone as a handicap. He too has a fancy piece of paper :-)
ven...@webtv.net
Devon-stating reply to Manon.
Boy, Devon-I see you've got the Judge Roy Bean thing down pat as well.
NEXT!:-)
Regards,
Judge John Vengel, Law West of AMAKS.
Shawn Jefferson
wrote:
>It is also somewhat ridiculous to believe that a people as scrupulously clean
>as the Japanese would allow any article of their sweaty workoout clothing to go
>unwashed.
Devon, did you read my story of my trip to Japan? I was in a small
fishing village and their was garbage dumped pretty much any place it
could be dumped. There was one particularly bad spot on a steep hill
that was right beside the road. It was so incredible I even took a
picture of it. We stopped to look at the beautiful view of the
pacific ocean and the cliff faces, and caught a whiff of a strange
smell. I looked down the hill and the entire hillside was covered in
garbage.
Also, several old shrines that were tucked away in the trees had lots
of garbage scattered around them. One even had a rusted old motorbike
parked/thrown right beside it.
They may be personally clean, but they don't seem to give a rat's ass
about the environment.
It definitely wasn't what I expected.
---
Shawn Jefferson
sjeffers(at)home(dot)com
Rajeev Venugopal
swatting!
Raj
DevonErik
>Maybe Devon should add the opening two moves of Kanku Dai as bunkai for fly
>swatting!
No. I never swat flies without using chopsticks.
Eoin Clarke
> And they did this long before Kano used kyu/dan for judo I assume?
>
> Btw I have a friend who is Ni Dan in Go, ie he will give a Sho dan 1
> stone as a handicap. He too has a fancy piece of paper :-)
> --
>
> George
I assume so too. I'll ask my grandmother-in-law (99) next weekend and
get back to you on that.
Ask your friend how much his piece of paper cost, a fair bit if it was
gotten in Japan I bet. Even though reaching Instructor level is very
expensive in the traditional arts, I think that karate is near the bottom
of list. Tea ceremony is near or at the top I think. Curious to know about
Go.
Eoin
Eoin Clarke eo...@gol.com
Will Szlemko
> Ranking, be it social or based on percieved ability, is very important in
> Japan. The Japanese use the 'kyu' ranking system in many different fields,
> ranging from swimming lessons to English tests. It's not unique to the
> martial arts
I never claimed that the kyu/dan system was unique to the martial arts only that
the colored belts are. If my prior post left this unclear please excuse me.
Will Szlemko
enjoy the moment
Bradley M Webb
> I assume so too. I'll ask my grandmother-in-law (99) next weekend and
> get back to you on that.
> Ask your friend how much his piece of paper cost, a fair bit if it was
> gotten in Japan I bet. Even though reaching Instructor level is very
> expensive in the traditional arts, I think that karate is near the bottom
> of list. Tea ceremony is near or at the top I think. Curious to know about
> Go.
>
> Eoin
Whoa :).
So Eoin, what's the comparison (in yen
or dollars) between say :
tea ceremony go-dan,
calligraphy go-dan,
and JKA go-dan?
Brad, just curious.
--
Brad Webb, 972-231-4922 Nortel Info Systems, 972-684-1737
Japan Shotokan Karate Dallas/Richardson TX.
JKA Dallas http://www.dallas.net/jka/
Eoin Clarke
different teaching ranks with names I haven't bothered to translate. It
seems that while hobbies with competition ie. martial arts, Go and
whatever, have 'dan' ranks, others just have different teaching grades.
So here is a comparison of just Tea Ceremony and Koto (Japanese harp):
Tea Ceremony- 2nd highest rank= Yen 280,000
- Highest rank= Yen 450,000
Koto - highest rank= Yen 300,000
It seems that different orgs charge different prices, so understand that
this is just one example.
My instructor is not in the JKA, instead he's a fairly big fish in a
small pond. In his org he just paid Yen 80,000 for his 6th dan.
From the people I talked too, their understanding is that the ranking
system preceded Kano and judo.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Eoin
In article
<FD50F3907D6DDD1A.71AFAB72...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
Bradley M Webb <bwe...@airmail.net> wrote:
> So Eoin, what's the comparison (in yen
> or dollars) between say :
>
> tea ceremony go-dan,
>
> calligraphy go-dan,
>
> and JKA go-dan?
>
> Brad, just curious.
Eoin Clarke eo...@gol.com
Eoin Clarke
In article <eoin-02039...@tc-2-1-187.shinjuku.gol.ne.jp>,
eo...@gol.com (Eoin Clarke) wrote:
Eoin Clarke eo...@gol.com
Andrew Knowles
<snip 2 cents worth of old Zen stuff>
Here, have $64,000 worth of new AMAKS FAQ.
Andrew