wrists and ankles

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Mark-T

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Mar 15, 2010, 8:24:18 PM3/15/10
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I was reviewing wrist locks and ankle locks, it seems
there is not much correspondence between them, even
though the joints appear similar.

For instance, in aikido, they have somethng called
shiho-nage, is there anything comparable for the ankle?
Or the heel hook - can you do something akin to that on the wrist?

If one is adept at wrist (ankle) locks, does that imply
competence at ankle (wrist) locks?


Mark

Rabid Weasel Lawson

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Mar 15, 2010, 9:18:55 PM3/15/10
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On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:24:18 -0700, Mark-T wrote:

> I was reviewing wrist locks and ankle locks, it seems
> there is not much correspondence between them, even
> though the joints appear similar.

The joints are only superficially similar, at best.

>
> For instance, in aikido, they have somethng called
> shiho-nage, is there anything comparable for the ankle?
> Or the heel hook - can you do something akin to that on the wrist?
>
> If one is adept at wrist (ankle) locks, does that imply
> competence at ankle (wrist) locks?

No.

Some of the broad concepts cross over but the movements and setups are
different.

Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk

Greendistantstar

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Mar 15, 2010, 9:47:37 PM3/15/10
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Mark-T wrote:
> I was reviewing wrist locks and ankle locks, it seems
> there is not much correspondence between them, even
> though the joints appear similar.

There's some, where the physiology allows.

> For instance, in aikido, they have somethng called
> shiho-nage, is there anything comparable for the ankle?

How exactly, would you envisage this being done with an ankle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAVP7F89cpU

> Or the heel hook - can you do something akin to that on the wrist?

No. Do you actually know what a heel-hook is, or how it works?

> If one is adept at wrist (ankle) locks, does that imply
> competence at ankle (wrist) locks?

This wrist/(ankle)& ankle/wrist thing makes no sense.

GDS

"Let's roll!"

Dan Winsor

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Mar 16, 2010, 10:50:27 AM3/16/10
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On Mar 15, 9:18 pm, Rabid Weasel Lawson <law...@NO14747SPAM

+dayton.net> wrote:
>
> Some of the broad concepts cross over but the movements and setups are
> different.

Like bend or twist until it makes an owie?

--
Dan Winsor

Soy un poco loco en el coco.

Pboud

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Mar 16, 2010, 11:17:58 AM3/16/10
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Yup..
- trap foot against chest, as they hold you in the classic 'foot lapel
hold'..
...

Mark-T

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Mar 16, 2010, 5:04:24 PM3/16/10
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On Mar 15, Greendistantstar <Greendistants...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> > I was reviewing wrist locks and ankle locks, it seems
> > there is not much correspondence between them, even
> > though the joints appear similar.
>
> There's some, where the physiology allows.
>
> > For instance, in aikido, they have somethng called
> > shiho-nage, is there anything comparable for the ankle?
>
> How exactly, would you envisage this being done with an ankle?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAVP7F89cpU

Catch a kick, trap, turn. Uke faces a challenge, surviving
that without injury.

Maybe even do it on the ground, during a scramble.

> > Or the heel hook - can you do something akin to that
> > on the wrist?
>
> No. Do you actually know what a heel-hook is, or how it works?

Trap the foot and twist.
Could it work on a hand?


> > If one is adept at wrist (ankle) locks, does that imply
> > competence at ankle (wrist) locks?
>
> This wrist/(ankle)& ankle/wrist thing makes no sense.


hand = foot
wrist = ankle

Mark

Mark-T

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Mar 16, 2010, 5:27:38 PM3/16/10
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On Mar 16, Pboud <pboud_01NOSPA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>Some of the broad concepts cross over but the movements
> >>and setups are different.
>
> > Like bend or twist until it makes an owie?

>


> Yup..
> - trap foot against chest, as they hold you in the classic 'foot lapel
> hold'..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRaMqDslRz0

There's a wrist lock, works the same way.

Mark

hal

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Mar 16, 2010, 5:41:50 PM3/16/10
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On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Mark-T
<markta...@gmail.com> wrote:


>> > If one is adept at wrist (ankle) locks, does that imply
>> > competence at ankle (wrist) locks?
>>
>> This wrist/(ankle)& ankle/wrist thing makes no sense.
>
>
>hand = foot
>wrist = ankle
>
>Mark

The problem with ankle locks is you are working against large muscle
groups designed to support our weight and push off when running.
Also, the ankle is not nearly as flexible as the wrist. With wrist
locks once you pass a certain point in bending the wrist there is
little or no strength to overcome and correct it, thus the success of
wrist locking techniques. With the ankle, about the only mechanical
advantage you would have is if you can catch a kick and take ahold of
the foot and heel, then you can twist in a rotational effect on the
lower leg. The foot gives you leverage for the twist and there are
few muscle groups to work against your leverage. Once you get a good
grasp on the foot/heel you can twist someone right over, their body
easily following the twisting action on their leg. Once you twist
them over you have their back and if you know what to do you can fuck
them up good. The trick of course, is catching their foot. If you
are against a competent opponent it's not all that easy.

Rabid Weasel Lawson

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Mar 16, 2010, 7:06:57 PM3/16/10
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On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:50:27 -0700, Dan Winsor wrote:

> Like bend or twist until it makes an owie?

Well, if you wanna get into specifics. ;-)

Greendistantstar

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Mar 16, 2010, 11:45:18 PM3/16/10
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Mark-T wrote:
> On Mar 15, Greendistantstar <Greendistants...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>>> I was reviewing wrist locks and ankle locks, it seems
>>> there is not much correspondence between them, even
>>> though the joints appear similar.
>> There's some, where the physiology allows.
>>
>>> For instance, in aikido, they have somethng called
>>> shiho-nage, is there anything comparable for the ankle?
>> How exactly, would you envisage this being done with an ankle?
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAVP7F89cpU
>
> Catch a kick, trap, turn. Uke faces a challenge, surviving
> that without injury.

No, that's nothing like shiho-nage, nor is it workeable in anything where your uke is resisting.

> Maybe even do it on the ground, during a scramble.

Maybe not. You do that to my leg, I just roll, newaza 101.

>>> Or the heel hook - can you do something akin to that
>>> on the wrist?
>> No. Do you actually know what a heel-hook is, or how it works?
>
> Trap the foot and twist.

Not quite; see below *

> Could it work on a hand?

No.

>>> If one is adept at wrist (ankle) locks, does that imply
>>> competence at ankle (wrist) locks?
>> This wrist/(ankle)& ankle/wrist thing makes no sense.
>
>
> hand = foot
> wrist = ankle

*
What you don't get is this:

Shoulder---Elbow---Wrist = Arm

Hip---Knee---Ankle = Leg

A wrist lock's torque is applied to the wrist; a heel hook's torque is applied to the *knee*.

The wrist lock is not a corollary to the wrist lock.

GDS

"Let's roll!"

Greendistantstar

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Mar 17, 2010, 12:47:44 AM3/17/10
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Greendistantstar wrote:

> The wrist lock is not a corollary to the wrist lock.

Should read: 'The heel hook is not a corollary to the wrist lock."

GDS

"Let's roll!"

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