Does Aikido have *forms*?

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KickingBear

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Jul 19, 2001, 11:02:53 PM7/19/01
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Those series of movements <kata, poomse> that help with balance and focus?
I found in other martial arts that these movements help "blueprint" in your
mind so the defensive and offensive moves become second nature. Good 'ol
sparring helps too!

--
KickingBear
1stDan ChangMooKwan TaeKwonDo
Yudansha - Kodokan Judo
Student - Always Learning Anything


Paja

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Jul 20, 2001, 1:16:54 AM7/20/01
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Hi Kicking bear,

Yoshinkan aikido has a Kihon dosa. This is a basic set of exercises (6),
which helps you to improve stance, body movement, balance etc. I found out,
Kihon dosa is very good (I practise it daily), because every (Yoshinkan)
aikido technique contains Kihon dosa movements. That's why, If you improve
your Kihon dosa, you will progress in all your techniques.

By the way, Kihon waza is pracised in very strict manner (at beginners
level), it almost looks like kata-bunkai.

I think, there are som katas in Shodokan (Tomiki aikido), I'm sure, Tomiki
boys will tell you more

Regards,
Paja

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mimesis

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Jul 20, 2001, 1:22:12 PM7/20/01
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hello kicking bear,

i have only practiced aikido for six months, and i'm new to the martial
arts on the whole, but i love to discuss it, so i'll pitch in. =)

my understanding is that aikido does not have, strictly speaking,
"forms" or kata as it is typically understood in the other arts, but it
definitely has a series of basic exercises that you can practice on
your own that help with balance and centralization, as well as the
basics of many techniques: a rowing exercise, high extension handwork,
a static pivot, dynamic pivot, wrist leads, tenkan footwork, etc. but i
don't know of a series of *formal* kata as you might see in taekwondo?

i hope as i go along with aikido, i will also learn about the other
arts and the differences/similarities. as a beginner, my early
sensation is that aikido is more organic and thus maybe notably absent
of organized forms.

but like i said, i'm a beginner. =)

mimesis

Hendric Stattmann

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Jul 20, 2001, 10:29:53 AM7/20/01
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KickingBear wrote:

> Those series of movements <kata, poomse> that help with balance and

> focus? [...]

Hello,
In Tomiki / Shodokan Aikido, there are three important Kata's:
Kihon Waza Junana hon no Kata (17 basic techniques)
Nage no Kata (25 throwing techniques)
Koryo Goshin no Kata (50 techniques, some of them against armed Uke)

There are also a certain number of other Kata's (like the Koryu dai 1,
2,...6 series, introduced by the second Shihan of Shodokan, Ohba Sensei).

In general, Shodokan is much more "structured" in this sense, compared to
other Aikido schools.

Regards,
Hendric
--
Hendric Stattmann, Lausanne, Switzerland, Registered Linux User #178879
Visit the official Swiss Shodokan Aikido Homepage (french language) at:
http://members.nbci.com/asats

Sean

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Jul 20, 2001, 7:14:24 PM7/20/01
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mimesis wrote in message ...

> my understanding is that aikido does not have, strictly speaking,
> "forms" or kata as it is typically understood in the other arts,

<snip>


> but i don't know of a series of *formal* kata
> as you might see in taekwondo?

For most styles of aikido what you say is correct, but the Tomiki styles
(Shodokan is the main one, but a couple of other styles inspired by Tomiki
sensei do exist) there are katas.
They're not like the solo forms you'd see in karate though, but are
performed by two people like Judo katas. (Or at least the kind of katas you
see in Judo if you can find a Judo club that isn't totally obsessed with
Shiai. :oP )

Are there katas in Yoseikan aiki-budo, does anybody know?
From what I've read about Minoru Mochizuki, I'd sort of expect there to be.

Sean
x


Sean

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Jul 20, 2001, 7:18:47 PM7/20/01
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Paja wrote in message ...

> Yoshinkan aikido has a Kihon dosa. This is a basic set of exercises (6),
> which helps you to improve stance, body movement, balance etc. I found
> out, Kihon dosa is very good (I practise it daily), because every
> (Yoshinkan) aikido technique contains Kihon dosa movements. That's why,
> If you improve your Kihon dosa, you will progress in all your techniques.

<snip>

> I think, there are som katas in Shodokan (Tomiki aikido), I'm sure, Tomiki
> boys will tell you more

Hendric already chipped in about the katas, but I'd just like to add that
Shodokan aikido also has a Kihon Dosa. After limbering up, at the start of
every class we practice the same basic excercises, first footwork and
hand-blade movements alone, and then a series of paired excercises designed
to develop awareness of distance, timing, centre, etc..

Actually the last of the Kihon Dosa, the Hachi-hon-no-kuzushi (sometimes the
Nana-hon-no-kuzushi) is made up of 8 (sometimes 7) techniques out of the
Nage-no-kata. A traditional aikidoka would probably recognise them as a
series of kokyu-nages.

At my home dojo, the whole routine takes up about the first 30 minutes of
each 2 hour class. The reason for spending so much time on it is exactly as
Paja says, the Kihon dosa movements are the building-blocks we use to
construct technique.

Sean
x

mimesis

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Jul 20, 2001, 11:08:11 PM7/20/01
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sean,

thanks for the info! and i should have pointed out, that i practice
what i guess is the most "basic" form of aikido, affiliated with hombu
dojo, so it makes sense that there are probably different flavors of
aikido that i know nothing about.

> mimesis wrote in message ...
>
> > my understanding is that aikido does not have, strictly speaking,
> > "forms" or kata as it is typically understood in the other arts,
> <snip>
> > but i don't know of a series of *formal* kata
> > as you might see in taekwondo?
>
> For most styles of aikido what you say is correct, but the Tomiki styles
> (Shodokan is the main one, but a couple of other styles inspired by Tomiki
> sensei do exist) there are katas.
> They're not like the solo forms you'd see in karate though

<snip>

steve

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Jul 20, 2001, 11:45:24 PM7/20/01
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Hello

there were only 2 that I was taught , I got to Nidan before moving on, I learned
a Bokken Kata, and a Jo Kata, I am told there are BO kata and spear Kata as well
but I never got past 2nd degree in Yoshinkan Aikido, I do believe some people
just need a punch in the mouth to stop them, so I play with Jujitsu people now.
But I still have a heavy Aikido flavor to my classes.

Tashi Steve Sells

Freeserve

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Jul 21, 2001, 4:13:52 PM7/21/01
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Strictly speaking all Traditional Aikido (not Tomiki Competition) is a form
of kata, one or two person. Even the kumitachi and kumijo could be viewed as
kata.

Free sparing tends in the main not to be free but work around agreed limits
(like kata).


FastBack

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Jul 21, 2001, 8:00:21 PM7/21/01
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Yes,
but it only works if you do it with Mushin (No mind) and Zan Shin (Life or
Death Intensity)
Like D OS Man said Aikido is not a sport. Aikido is true Budo and at that
level there are no rules or agreements are there? But by then you would be
at Bushin all around and it would never happen.
The whole thing is Paradox isn't it?
"Freeserve" <aik...@ahagan.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
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