How is Aikido taught?
Ranjit Chacko
anything like pushing hands from Tai Chi?
William Tanksley
>I was wondering how Aikido is taught. Are forms used? Is there
>anything like pushing hands from Tai Chi?
Depends on your dojo.
In mine, there are only two places where forms are used: in the warmups at
the start of the class (which are actually theoretical, purified versions
of some of the important movements), and with weapons. Everywhere else,
we work in pairs (or more).
--
-William "Billy" Tanksley
Russell Eberhardt
>I was wondering how Aikido is taught.
Best way to find out is to visit a dojo and watch - or better still
join the class.
>Are forms used?
If by forms you mean set sequences of movements like the Tai Chi forms
then the answer is yes. The japanese name for these sequences is
Kata. Kata is practiced in many traditional forms with one or two
persons with the jo (13 jo kata, 31 jo kata) or with the bokken (kumi
tachi). I beleive that two person, empty handed, kata are practised
in Tomiki style Aikido but I have little experience of this.
>Is there
>anything like pushing hands from Tai Chi?
Not usually.
Regards
Russell
Peterborough Aikido Club
http://www.reberhardt.freeserve.co.uk/aikido
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Sean
Russell Eberhardt wrote in message ...
> I beleive that two person, empty handed, kata are practised
> in Tomiki style Aikido but I have little experience of this.
Indeed they are. Seven katas in all exist in Tomiki style aikido, although
some are practiced a lot more than others.
The kata are paired exercises, one person is tori (who performs the
technique) and the other is uke (who 'receives' the technique) throughout
the whole sequence of the kata. The etiquette (who to bow to and when, how
to move between techniques, etc.) and identical to judo katas - which is
hardly surprising given Prof. Tomiki's background.
I've no experience of 'Ki' style aikido, but I believe they also use set
sequences of techniques in a similar way, which they call 'Taigi'.
Sean
x
Christine Mann
The Taigi is a sequence of 6 moves performed on left and right sides by both
partners. The sequence is timed and there are prescribed times for each taigi.
The moves are generally grouped around the attack, for example I have done taigi
using shomenuchi, yokomenuchi, ushiro tori and two handed grabs.
I don't think that quite qualifies as a kata, it certainly isn't like any form I
came across in my brief exposure to tai chi.
Chris
Hendric Stattmann
>> Indeed they are. Seven katas in all exist in Tomiki style aikido,
>> although some are practiced a lot more than others.
Hello Sean,
I am practicing Shodokan Aikido in Switzerland. I only know about three
Kata's in our Martial Art: Junana hon no Kata, the basic 17; Koryu Goshin
no Kata, also called Koryu dai San; and finally Nage no Kata.
What are the other ones? Are you thinking about Ohba Sensei's Koryu da
ichi, ni san... series?
Regards Hendric
--
Hendric Stattmann, Lausanne, Switzerland, Registered Linux User #178879
Visit the official Swiss Shodokan Aikido Homepage (french language) at:
http://members.nbci.com/asats
Sean
Hendric Stattmann wrote in message ...
> I am practicing Shodokan Aikido in Switzerland. I only know about three
> Kata's in our Martial Art: Junana hon no Kata, the basic 17; Koryu Goshin
> no Kata, also called Koryu dai San; and finally Nage no Kata.
Hi Hendric
> What are the other ones? Are you thinking about Ohba Sensei's Koryu da
> ichi, ni san... series?
Yes, those are the ones I'm thinking of.
As you say, the Goshin no Kata is the Koryu dai San, also the Nage no Kata
is the same as the Koryu dai Yon. I dont know the other four Koryu kata's
(Ichi, Ni, Go and Roku) at all, my sensei doesn't teach them at all, and I
believe Nariyama Shihan has more or less dropped them from the Shodokan
teaching.
Many of the Tomiki style instructors in Britain don't consider themselves to
be Shodokan aikidoka though, but are less influenced by Nariyama Shihan and
teach instead a slightly 'older' style, from before the founding of Shodokan
honbu dojo.
You'd notice differences from mainstream Shodokan in the way they perform
Randori no Kata, as well as the Go Shin and Nage no Kata's, since they
genarally haven't adopted the modifications and refinements made by Nariyama
Shihan over the years. Also, while mainstream shodokan instructors
generally dont teach the 'other' Koryu katas, quite a few Tomiki-style
senseis in this country still do.
Probably the best known of these is Dr Loi Ah Lee (7th dan) who studied
under Tomiki sensei himself, but was, I believe, primarily a student of Ohba
sensei. She is considered a great authority on the Koryu series of katas,
and I hope to attend one of her seminars in the not-to-distant future to see
what they're all about.
Sean
x
Sean
Christine Mann wrote in message ...
> The Taigi is a sequence of 6 moves performed on left and right sides by
both
> partners. The sequence is timed and there are prescribed times for each
taigi.
> The moves are generally grouped around the attack, for example I have done
taigi
> using shomenuchi, yokomenuchi, ushiro tori and two handed grabs.
Interesting, thankyou.
Are there set Taigi ? What I mean is, are there predefined sets of six
moves for you to choose (a complete 'set') from, or is it up to you and your
partner to decide which six individual moves you're going to perform ?
Sean
x
Hendric Stattmann
Hello Sean,
> Yes, those [Koryu dai 1, 2, 3...]are the ones I'm thinking of.
>
> As you say, the Goshin no Kata is the Koryu dai San, also the Nage no
> Kata
> is the same as the Koryu dai Yon. I dont know the other four Koryu
> kata's (Ichi, Ni, Go and Roku) at all, my sensei doesn't teach them at
> all, and I believe Nariyama Shihan has more or less dropped them from
> the Shodokan teaching.
I don't know these other Kata's either. These Koryu dai 123... series are
not part of the original instruction curriculum of Tomiki Shihan, but
have been set up by Ohba Shihan when he was responsable of the Shodokan
Honbu.
> Many of the Tomiki style instructors in Britain don't consider
> themselves to be Shodokan aikidoka though, but are less influenced by
> Nariyama Shihan and teach instead a slightly 'older' style, from before
> the founding of Shodokan honbu dojo.
Well, as I know, the first generation of Tomiki Aikido teachers in the UK
left Japan at a time where Tomiki himself had'nt founded the Shodokan
(ie. before 1971). Therefore they don't call themselves teaching
"Shodokan" Aikido, but "Tomiki" Aikido. This also explains certain
technical differences.
> [...]
> Probably the best known of these is Dr Loi Ah Lee (7th dan) who studied
> under Tomiki sensei himself, but was, I believe, primarily a student of
> Ohba
> sensei. She is considered a great authority on the Koryu series of
> katas, and I hope to attend one of her seminars in the not-to-distant
> future to see what they're all about.
I have seen Dr Loi ah Lee at the 1997 International Tournament in Imabari.
Another Kata that is not thought regulary neither at the Shodokan Honbu
nor in Switzerland is the last part of Nage no Kata, the 11 "Oyo"
techniques, following the "Omote" and "Ura" series. I will have to see
where I can learn them for my San Dan exam, but there is still a long way
to go anyway :-)
Sean
Hendric Stattmann wrote in message ...
> These Koryu dai 123... series are not part of the original
> instruction curriculum of Tomiki Shihan, but have been set
> up by Ohba Shihan when he was responsable of the Shodokan
> Honbu.
Ah, I see, I didn't know they were particularly associated with Ohba sensei.
> I have seen Dr Loi ah Lee at the 1997 International Tournament in Imabari.
Will you be going to Japan for this year's tournament? Unfortunately I cant
go, I gather I'm going to miss out on quite a special event. :o(
> Another Kata that is not thought regulary neither at the Shodokan Honbu
> nor in Switzerland is the last part of Nage no Kata, the 11 "Oyo"
> techniques, following the "Omote" and "Ura" series. I will have to see
> where I can learn them for my San Dan exam, but there is still a long way
> to go anyway :-)
I'd heard that Nariyama shihan doesn't teach those very often, I've only
seen them a couple of times, they dont look easy! (I have rather longer to
go than you do, I'm planning to test for shodan probably between six months
and a year from now)
Have you ever trained with Satoru Tsuchiya sensei in Paris ? I wonder if he
ever teaches the Ooyo waza. :o)
Sean
x
Christine Mann
Sean,
yes in taigi the moves are predefined. I had a poke around and found this site:
http://ki-aikido.net/TAIGI/TaigiList.html
which is run by the American Ki society. The school I train with uses the school
I train with (Kolesnikovs School of Mind and Body Development with Aikido or
KSMBDA for short) use something similar but the time have been laid down by the
Hombu dojo.
thanks for your interest
Russell Eberhardt
<cm...@appleonline.net> wrote:
>yes in taigi the moves are predefined. I had a poke around and found this site:
>http://ki-aikido.net/TAIGI/TaigiList.html
>which is run by the American Ki society.
Interesting, so kata are taught in Ki-Aikido as well as Shodokan.
>The school I train with uses the school
>I train with (Kolesnikovs School of Mind and Body Development with Aikido or
>KSMBDA for short) use something similar
Is the Kolesnikov school a branch of the Ki Society?
>but the time have been laid down by the
>Hombu dojo.
Which Hombu dojo would that be?
Regards,
Sean
Russell Eberhardt wrote in message ...
> >yes in taigi the moves are predefined. I had a poke around and found
> >this site: http://ki-aikido.net/TAIGI/TaigiList.html
> >which is run by the American Ki society.
> Interesting, so kata are taught in Ki-Aikido as well as Shodokan.
From reading that, I think I agree with Russell's implication, that Taigi is
essentially the same thing as kata. Certainly a Taigi competition sounds
like very much the same sort of thing as an Embu competition in Shodokan
aikido. (Embu means 'martial demonstration', ie performing kata with
'martial spirit' :o)
> >I train with (Kolesnikovs School of Mind and Body Development with
> >Aikido or KSMBDA for short) use something similar
> Is the Kolesnikov school a branch of the Ki Society?
I think I've heard of you guys, are you based in the North of England ?
> >but the time have been laid down by the
> >Hombu dojo.
> Which Hombu dojo would that be?
At risk of sounding a bit "me too", I'd like to know that too.
Is there a honbu dojo in Japan for Ki-style aikido, or did Tohei sensei
establish one in the states?
(or is there a Shin Shin Toitsu honbu somewhere else entirely.) ?
Sean
x
Marc Keats
events through out the year. You can then find many affiliated dojos through
out Japan and the world. I believe this is similar for any of the branches
of Aikido. This year Tohei Sensei will appoint his son as the new President
of Ki Society.
Ki society holds a Taigi competition every year in Japan. This competition
provides good information to the instructors on how the students are
training and what forms need to be worked on. The participants also see what
they need to improve. It is also a chance to perform under a little bit of
stress.
The competition is not as easy as you think. In Japan the competition is
held in the middle of the summer, this year was plus 34c and hot. Stay calm
and focused and doing everything correctly was a challenge.
Marc
in article 9js5o1$cdr$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk, Sean at
se...@deepMUNGEsoup.freeuk.com wrote on 28/7/01 1:41 am:
FastBack
This is merely an amplification on what you wrote. In the 23 years I spent
training in Japan, an Embu usually had the connotation of an offering to the
Gods in that they all took place on the grounds of a Shinto Shine during the
Shrines major Festivals each year. They were practiced with shin ken shobu
(life or death intensity) and were spontaneous rondori or free style against
one or more simultaneous attackers done with zanshin (total awareness in all
directions). On it's highest level's you merge with the Universe and stand
at the Center of all Creation.
"Russell Eberhardt" <reber...@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:3b614dd9...@news.demon.co.uk...
Christine Mann
> Russell Eberhardt wrote in message ...
>
> > >yes in taigi the moves are predefined. I had a poke around and found
> > >this site: http://ki-aikido.net/TAIGI/TaigiList.html
> > >which is run by the American Ki society.
> > Interesting, so kata are taught in Ki-Aikido as well as Shodokan.
> From reading that, I think I agree with Russell's implication, that Taigi is
> essentially the same thing as kata. Certainly a Taigi competition sounds
> like very much the same sort of thing as an Embu competition in Shodokan
> aikido. (Embu means 'martial demonstration', ie performing kata with
> 'martial spirit' :o)
>
> > >I train with (Kolesnikovs School of Mind and Body Development with
> > >Aikido or KSMBDA for short) use something similar
> > Is the Kolesnikov school a branch of the Ki Society?
> I think I've heard of you guys, are you based in the North of England ?
Yes, the main dojo is in Oldham, Where Sensei Kolesnikov lives. We also have
dojojs in Manchester, Cheshire, Rossington, Plymouth, Exeter, Swindon, Bridport
and now Bristol.
>
>
> > >but the time have been laid down by the
> > >Hombu dojo.
> > Which Hombu dojo would that be?
> At risk of sounding a bit "me too", I'd like to know that too.
> Is there a honbu dojo in Japan for Ki-style aikido, or did Tohei sensei
> establish one in the states?
> (or is there a Shin Shin Toitsu honbu somewhere else entirely.) ?
>
I think Marcus Keats mail answers this point. My answer is I'm not sure. I was
told when I asked where the taigi times came from Hombu Dojo, but maybe I
misheared. I will check with my sensei when I next see him.
>
> Sean
> x
Sean
Marc Keats wrote in message ...
> The Ki-Society honbu dojo is located in Tochigi prefecture and hosts many
> events through out the year.
Is it just called the "Ki-Society honbu dojo", or does it have a shorter
name (Like 'Aikikai', 'Yoshinkan', 'Shodokan' etc..)
> You can then find many affiliated dojos through
> out Japan and the world. I believe this is similar for any of the branches
> of Aikido.
There are quite a few dojos and associations unaffiliated to any japanese
hombu dojo, but I take your point. Until now I'd only heard of three aikido
honbu dojos in Japan, the Aikikai, the Yoshinkan and the Shodokan. Are
there others, is there a Yoseikan honbu, maybe?
> The competition is not as easy as you think.
I certainly wouldn't say that competition is 'easy'.
But then if it were, there wouldn't be any point. It has to be challenging,
you wouldn't get anything out of taking part.
You could say the same about normal training in the dojo, though. If a
session is too 'easy', you come out feeling you've been a bit short-changed,
dont you find ?
Sean
x
Sean
Christine Mann wrote in message ...
> > I think I've heard of you guys, are you based in the North of England ?
> Yes, the main dojo is in Oldham, Where Sensei Kolesnikov lives. We also
have
> dojojs in Manchester, Cheshire, Rossington, Plymouth, Exeter, Swindon,
Bridport
> and now Bristol.
Thought so, I've read about you on a website somewhere I think.
> I think Marcus Keats mail answers this point.
Probably. I didn't realise there was a Ki-society honbu in Japan, no reason
why there shouldn't be, I just hadn't heard of it before.
> My answer is I'm not sure. I was told when I asked
> where the taigi times came from Hombu Dojo.
If they hold regular competitions and practice the same taigi you do, I
suppose it would make sense for you to practice to the same standard. Are
you affiliated to the Ki-Society, or does the KSMBDA 'stand alone' ?
Are Taigi competitions held in the UK ?
If so, are spectators encouraged to attend, and is there a website or
something detailing when and where they're held ? If there's one anywhere
near where I live (just across the Pennines and down a bit from Oldham :o),
I'd be quite interested to see one.
Sean
x
Marc Keats
>
> Marc Keats wrote in message ...
>> The Ki-Society honbu dojo is located in Tochigi prefecture and hosts many
>> events through out the year.
> Interesting, thanks.
> Is it just called the "Ki-Society honbu dojo", or does it have a shorter
> name (Like 'Aikikai', 'Yoshinkan', 'Shodokan' etc..)
The dojo is called Kinosato, Ki-society in Japan is known as Kinokenkyukai
>
>> You can then find many affiliated dojos through
>> out Japan and the world. I believe this is similar for any of the branches
>> of Aikido.
> There are quite a few dojos and associations unaffiliated to any japanese
> hombu dojo, but I take your point. Until now I'd only heard of three aikido
> honbu dojos in Japan, the Aikikai, the Yoshinkan and the Shodokan. Are
> there others, is there a Yoseikan honbu, maybe?
>
>> The competition is not as easy as you think.
> I certainly wouldn't say that competition is 'easy'.
> But then if it were, there wouldn't be any point. It has to be challenging,
> you wouldn't get anything out of taking part.
>
> You could say the same about normal training in the dojo, though. If a
> session is too 'easy', you come out feeling you've been a bit short-changed,
> dont you find ?
>
Yes you are right, but I did not want to give the impression that this type
of competition is a demonstration. The first day every pair must do the
compulsory Taigi. If your score is above the cut off point then you continue
into the next day. On the second day every one will do a sentaku taigi and
buki taigi. These scores are added to the compulsory taigi and you end up
with your total score. Gold, silver and bronze are awarded. Depending on the
score sometimes Gold or Silver is not awarded, in other words the highest
score does not always mean a gold metal.
It is interesting to watch, mostly students attend this type of competition.
Marc
Christine Mann
Sean,
KSMBDA is affiliated to the Ki Society, but loosley. We are also affiliated to
the BAB, Sensei K. teaches ever year at the October national training weekend.
As for Taigi, we do these on our weekend courses, which are once a month,
rotating round the clubs. The courses comprise a grading and 2 hour training
session on the Saturday and a three hour course on the Sunday. The last taigi
was at Plymouth in July. Sensei K doesn't tell us in advance what he is going to
teach so we never know if we are in for a taigi or not. We did one last year
during our summer school so we may get one again this year, especially as we are
hosting 5 students from our Ukrainian school as they rarely get to do taigis. I
don't know about national competitions, perhaps the BAB may as they seem to have
many Ki style affiliates.
If you want to take a chance and come to one of our courses please feel free,
you don't need to ring in advance, just turn up. The next Oldham course is 27th
and 28th October. If you just want to watch thats ok too.
Christine
Sean
Christine Mann wrote in message ...
> If you want to take a chance and come to one of our courses
> please feel free, you don't need to ring in advance, just turn up.
> The next Oldham course is 27th and 28th October.
> If you just want to watch thats ok too.
Thanks. I'll put the dates in my diary, but I'm pretty unlikely to show up.
I'm just mildly curious really, I wouldn't want to turn up and upset people
with my nasty Shodokan habits when they're trying to concentrate on a
grading! :o)
I'll keep an eye out for a BAB taigi event though.. I gather the BAB also
run fairly regular 'multi-style' courses, that might be my best bet for
satisfying my curiosity about different styles.
Thanks again.
Sean
x
S. McElvanney
"Christine Mann" <cm...@appleonline.net> wrote in message
news:3B672BE9...@appleonline.net...
> Sean wrote:
>
> > Christine Mann wrote in message ...
> >
> > > > I think I've heard of you guys, are you based in the North of
England ?
> > > Yes, the main dojo is in Oldham, Where Sensei Kolesnikov lives.
Sorry?
Oldham North???
Isn't it Midlands???
Russell Eberhardt
<se...@deepMUNGEsoup.freeuk.com> wrote:
>I'm just mildly curious really, I wouldn't want to turn up and upset people
>with my nasty Shodokan habits when they're trying to concentrate on a
>grading! :o)
Why not go along as a beginner and leave your habits behind?
>I'll keep an eye out for a BAB taigi event though.. I gather the BAB also
>run fairly regular 'multi-style' courses, that might be my best bet for
>satisfying my curiosity about different styles.
Yes, the next one is at Crystal Palace on 13th October with
instructors from Ki, Yoshinkan, Iwama, and other schools.
Regards,
Russell
Peterborough Aikido Club
http://www.peterboroughaikido.org.uk
Sean
Russell Eberhardt wrote in message ...
> >I'm just mildly curious really, I wouldn't want to turn up and upset
people
> >with my nasty Shodokan habits when they're trying to concentrate on a
> >grading! :o)
> Why not go along as a beginner and leave your habits behind?
Well of course I would try to. (As I do when I visit my local traditional
aikido dojo.) Theres absolutely no point to attending a class if you're not
prepared to practice each technique the way its being taught.
I wasn't being 100% serious there, hence the smiley. :o)
> >I gather the BAB also
> >run fairly regular 'multi-style' courses, that might be my best bet for
> >satisfying my curiosity about different styles.
> Yes, the next one is at Crystal Palace on 13th October with
> instructors from Ki, Yoshinkan, Iwama, and other schools.
These are all styles I'd be very interested to get a taste of, I'll do my
best to be there. (And if I am there, I'll do my best to learn something.)
Sean
x
Sean
S. McElvanney wrote in message ...
> Sorry?
>
> Oldham North???
>
> Isn't it Midlands???
Depends on where you set out from to get there! :o)