Who designed your drill?
John Gilln
Mitch Rogers is their drill writer for their New World Symphony show.
º ¸ º John Gillian
~ Bartlesville, Oklahoma
IWantToMarch
Bill Zier (sorry for the spelling, i butchered his last name) from the
Madison Scouts is our drill writer.
IWantToMarch
John Gilln wrote in message
<199809061337...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Benjamin H Bond
>Lake Highlands High School, Richardson, Texas
>Bill Zier (sorry for the spelling, i butchered his last name) from the
>Madison Scouts is our drill writer.
His name is spelled Bill Zeier in the DCI Program.
ben
William Quap
Clark Gardner. May God have mercy on us all.
Adam Quap
String Bassist
SFA Sugarland Tx
c/o 2000
Charoensombud
Duane Minnick, our band director.
ABC
William Quap wrote in message <35F2E3...@intertex.net>...
VHolmboe
The Woodlands -- Michael Gaines
Berkner -- Michael Gaines
Westfield -- Michael Gaines
Spring -- Mitch Rodgers
Langham Creek -- Mitch Rodgers
Clements -- Mitch Rodgers
S.F. Austin -- Clark Gardner
Cy Fair -- Vince Noble
Brazoswood -- Vince Noble
Pearland -- Vince Noble
Jersey Village -- Bob Thompson
Duncanville -- Brian Youngblood
L.D. Bell -- Brian Youngblood
Trinity -- Brian Pollard
Richland -- Garrett Decker
Lake Highlands -- Bill Zeier
Westlake -- Randall Brownly
These are all the ones I know.
Vaughn Holmboe
IWantToMarch
>Lake Highlands -- Bill Zeier
Bill also does stuff for Mt. Carmel (at least he always wears a Mt Carmel
Winterguard shirt)
Who is Michael Gaines and Mitch Rogers? as in what do they do outside of
writing drill for their prospective high schools, do they work with any
corps? If so, which ones?
IWantToMarch
ToolsHNIC
lol
Michael
SFA Trombone
Sugar Land tx
co2000
MAJESTIE
VHolmboe
Michael Gaines wrote the drill for the Cavaliers this year. He also used to
write for groups like Kiski and Centerville. Michael is also very active in
WGI.
Mitch Rodgers writes for H.S. such as Plymouth-Canton and Spring. He also used
to be the Corps Director of the Cavaliers.
Vaughn Holmboe
David Huff
Arlington.
IWantToMarch
to
>write for groups like Kiski and Centerville. Michael is also very active
in
>WGI.
>
>Mitch Rodgers writes for H.S. such as Plymouth-Canton and Spring. He also
used
>to be the Corps Director of the Cavaliers.
>
>Vaughn Holmboe
Thank you very much Vaughn, that was a pretty quick response. I never knew
all those organizations had the same drill writer, when I saw that all the
high schools were very successful, I just had to know where those 2 men came
from. Not that Bill Zeier isn't great, he is, and we have some pretty cool
drill this year, but I was unfamiliar with other drill writers.
IWantToMarch
Jason Mendoza
Jason Mendoza
Poteet HS, Mesquite, TX
c/o '01
band...@mailcity.com
Churchill --- Head Director Ferd Vollmar
Bill Gremillion
Churchill Band Fan
San Antonio
"Without the band, it's only a game."
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MikeM1003
I say three cheers for the directors that design their own
shows/drills!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been called a "purest" and almost everything else, but I am really
strong on this. With all the talk about "restrictions", I think the 8-hr rule
should be dropped and one passed that forbids a school or booster club to pay
for a show/drill designer. Band Directors take college classes ( I guess they
still do) in marching band techiniques..use it. I don;t care if you are Corps
or Military or Show.
That is the real purest in me.
Michael Montgomery
>>Others bands may be good, but I still favor the Military Style.<<
Oscar Garcia
Mike,
I disagree with that concept. Band Directors do not take class on drill
design, nor color guard equipment, color concepts nor twirling. These
are all learned if the Band Director has an interest.
If a Band Director wants to "win" he/she must invest on a very good
music arranger, color guard instructor, as well as a marching
instructor.
I know where you are coming from Mike, but...
Alba Garcia
Riverside, Ca, [still]
bob & becky
Sorry to disagree with you, but where I went to college (Texas Tech) I did take a
course on drill writing from Keith Bearden (I learned a lot, too!) Also, I have
been involved with "winning" band programs where the staff on hand did all of the
drill writing, taught all of the drill ourselves, and used plain old published
music right off the shelf.
RLS lIlIll
not the best drill designers.
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
But you don't have to take my word for it
WCHS Charger Band '96-'00
San Antonio, Tx
Trumpets rule
John Gilln
<<I think the 8-hr rule should be dropped and one passed that forbids a school
or booster club to pay for a show/drill designer.>>
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard suggested. I have helped
design plenty of military shows for pre-game and post season shows, as well as
for a non-varsity marching band. By no means, was the design process easy, but
the limited possibilities certainly made it feasible to design a show which was
competitive and entertaining.
During my last year to direct in Midland, Mitch Rodgers, from Chicago, was the
drill designer for the varsity marching band. There was certainly no one on
our staff, nor anyone affiliated with our staff, who could have designed such a
superior quality of drill design. I am certain that there are people learning
and improving their skills in drill design, but my little 3 hour, one semester
course did not get me to that level of expertise.
As an analogy, I have tremendous trust in my family doctor. I know that he is
well trained and is completely competent. I also am happy when he refers me to
a specialist when he is not certain of the best treatment available.
I feel certain that the most successful band directors all have their own
specialty areas, and hire specialists whenever necessary.
IWantToMarch
want that. While we're at it, let's cut out the colorguard, hey, who needs
music arranged for their band? Let's just buy it off the shelf, we can buy a
drum book along with it, we don't need to write one for the show... Incase
you missed it, i'm being sarcastic. Why would you want to make your show any
less than it's possible of being? If it fits in your budget, then why not
get it? If it doesn't, well, get the best you can. Hard work still outways
money, so you can still beat bands that spend more money, but better
designed shows don't hurt....
IWantToMarch
RLS lIlIll wrote in message
<199809090019...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Glide825
wherever it needs to go creatively... If that calls for an outside drill
writer, percussion instructor, guard instructor or clarinet teacher - so be it.
I think exposing our students to expertise from others is a highly positive
thing.
After all - as band directors we would never consider ONLY using music we have
composed for our students, right? There are just too many great pieces of
literature our there. I think the same goes for the tremendous resources
available in TX and around the nation when it comes to drillwriting, etc.
Oscar Garcia
You are right. A Band Director cannot do it all. It would mean a
tremendous amount of pressure on him/her.
As everything, it is a learned concept through out the years for a Band
Director.
It is not a question whether or not Tx. has the best drill writers,
music arrangers, color guard instructor, and music intructors. It is
the love, the care, respect and dedication that all of these people have
for the music programs. My hat and respect is off to them.
At least, I knew where "my children" were at all times. They also
learned a very valuable lesson. Which was how to use their time wisely.
By doing this, they were at the top of their class. I also forgot to
add is that they learned to work with a group. Which now in their
lives, works well for them.
Alba Garcia
Rodney Parker
Bearden. He has been a friend of mine since I was in High School. There
are two components here. Aspiring directors do take drill design classes
(sometimes a component of the MB technique class) as well as "Form &
Composition" and "Arranging" classes. There are very few classes which give
the aspiring director any knowledge of Auxiliary and twirling techniques.
Therefore, most directors do need to hire a twirling and Flag instructor. I
also find it necessary to hire a percussion specialist, as would most
directors, unless they themselves are percussionists. Marching percussion
is so specialized it is almost imperative. I do all my own drill & I teach
it I also arrange a lot of things for my band. And like it or not, there
are so good stock stuff out there on the shelves to play as well. You don't
have to play customized arrangements to "win". The bands that have won
State MC the last several years did not win because they play customized
arrangements. They won because they executed their show better than anyone
else.
I also don't believe that directors hire drumline teachers, flag teachers,
etc, just because they "want to win". I do it because the kids deserve the
best training I can give them? My percussionists are much better prepared
for college MB than they would be if I taught the drumline. That's how I
look at all of my kids.....it is my job to see that they leave High School
with the ability to continue on to the next level if they so desire. The
"winning" is going to come naturally if a director's top priority is to get
the kids the best musical education he or she can.
Rodney Parker
bob & becky wrote in message <35F5A3ED...@viptx.net>...
>Oscar,
>Sorry to disagree with you, but where I went to college (Texas Tech) I did
take a
>course on drill writing from Keith Bearden (I learned a lot, too!) Also, I
have
>been involved with "winning" band programs where the staff on hand did all
of the
>drill writing, taught all of the drill ourselves, and used plain old
published
>music right off the shelf.
>Oscar Garcia wrote:
>
>> MikeM1003 wrote:
>> >
>> > >Our awesome band director Scott Coulson designs ours.
>> >
>> > I say three cheers for the directors that design their own
>> > shows/drills!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> >
>> > I have been called a "purest" and almost everything else, but I am
really
>> > strong on this. With all the talk about "restrictions", I think the
8-hr rule
>> > should be dropped and one passed that forbids a school or booster club
to pay
Rodney Parker
John Gilln wrote in message
>mike...@aol.com wrote
>
><<I think the 8-hr rule should be dropped and one passed that forbids a
school
>or booster club to pay for a show/drill designer.>>
>
I agree John. Drill design happens to be one of my stronger areas, and I
have helped many area small schools in the past few years. I didn't get
rich because of it, but I did get a lot of satisfaction out of helping that
director and his kids. On the other hand, I think there needs to be a "cap"
on what can be spent, simply because I know there are a few places who would
pay to have it ALL done (music, drill, teaching, polish, clean, etc.). I
mean, how could I sleep at night someone else did my job and I got the
credit? Just a thought......
Rodney Parker
MikeM1003
>learned a very valuable lesson. Which was how to use their time wisely.
> By doing this, they were at the top of their class. I also forgot to
>add is that they learned to work with a group. Which now in their
>lives, works well for them.
>Alba Garcia
>
This is so well put. Sometimes we as directors have different ( and I might
add very strong} opinions on what should be marched, what should be played, how
much practice, outside instructors, ect. But, ne thing that I think we all
should and can agree on is that whatever we do affects the lives of so many
people. And it is not just a short term effect.
One thing to remember when you are working with your students or judging on
the contest field is that we are shaping the lives of these students in what we
do and what we teach and even in the comments the judges make about their
bands.
In the very end, after our seniors have walked the stage for the last time, it
is the positive influence and lessions we have taught these students in so many
different areas aside from marching band and music.
JPv1043
Over the years the same jealous less talented band directors come up with more
ideas on how to make their programs more "competitive." They don't want those
other big time programs (who all cheat) to keep having unfair advantages. No
matter what they do the same people will still be successful. Would "nt be a
shame to limit our youths creativity and aspirations just because the boys at
UIL think that these Nazi band directors are pushing the kids too much or
spending too much money. Where do you think this money comes from (band
boosters=Parents) Speaking as a parent if I fell I can add to the education and
enjoyment of my child's life than I will not even think twice about spending
the money. I was once in a very competitive band and I learned that if you go
the extra mile and work longer than others than that is how you can get ahead
in life. I contribute a lot of my personnel success (I was the youngest
executive in the history of the company I work for -- 26) due to what I learned
from band and Drum Corp. I am very thankful I did not have restrictions on what
I could do or what the program could do. By the way Spring High has never been
wealthy but how many of you would say they have been successful??
Jpv
<I think the 8-hr rule should be dropped and one passed that forbids a
>school
>>or booster club to pay for a show/drill designer.>>
>On the other hand, I think there needs to be a "cap"
Glide825
>the aspiring director any knowledge of Auxiliary and twirling techniques.
>Therefore, most directors do need to hire a twirling and Flag instructor. I
>also find it necessary to hire a percussion specialist, as would most
>directors, unless they themselves are percussionists. Marching percussion
>is so specialized it is almost imperative. I do all my own drill & I teach
>it I also arrange a lot of things for my band.
Rodney,
It sounds like you have the expertise necessary to write competitive drill, and
to arrange pieces for your band. I admire that. But - just as you feel a need
to hire a marching percussion specialist - there are many directors I know who
feel the need to get help in the drillwriting area. To say that they are "not
doing their job" or "taking credit for somone else's work" seems harsh. After
all, as you mentioned, marching percussion is an area many directors seek help
in, despite the fact that they took percussion technique classes in college.
To admit that you need help (or just want expert-caliber material) with your
drill seems reasonable. As with percussion or colorguard it's hard to stay
up-to-date with the evolution of drillwriting unless it's one of your strong
points to begin with.
Glide
Glide825
>enjoyment of my child's life than I will not even think twice about spending
>the money. I was once in a very competitive band and I learned that if you go
>the extra mile and work longer than others than that is how you can get ahead
>in life. I contribute a lot of my personnel success (I was the youngest
>executive in the history of the company I work for -- 26) due to what I
learned
>from band and Drum Corp. I am very thankful I did not have restrictions on
what
>I could do or what the program could do. By the way Spring High has never been
>wealthy but how many of you would say they have been successful??
You don't mince words much do you? :)
I strongly agree with the sentiment above.
Rodney Parker
>Rodney,
>
>It sounds like you have the expertise necessary to write competitive drill,
and
>to arrange pieces for your band. I admire that. But - just as you feel a
need
>to hire a marching percussion specialist - there are many directors I know
who
>feel the need to get help in the drillwriting area. To say that they are
"not
>doing their job" or "taking credit for somone else's work" seems harsh.
After
>all, as you mentioned, marching percussion is an area many directors seek
help
>in, despite the fact that they took percussion technique classes in
college.
>
>To admit that you need help (or just want expert-caliber material) with
your
>drill seems reasonable. As with percussion or colorguard it's hard to stay
>up-to-date with the evolution of drillwriting unless it's one of your
strong
>points to begin with.
>
>Glide
.
Glide,
Please re-read the entire post. I never inferred a director who hired a
drill writer or an arranger wasn't doing his or her job. In fact, I do some
of that myself for other bands. The comment you question was in reference
to some sort of cap on spending. Otherwise, what's to stop some director
from spending $50K - $100K to hire someone to cover every aspect of his or
her job? That's the key phrase that you're missing. I'm not against hiring
consultants when needed, and different directors have different strengths
and weaknesses. IMHO, a cap would ensure that nobody abused the priviledge.
Sorry if I phrased my thoughts ambiguously, and good luck.
Rodney Parker
Mike Hewitt
research that I have just completed tends to show that when the directors
write their own drill, the scores are lower than if it is written by
someone else. When directors write their own music, they tend to do as
well as others who write for their bands.
MikeM1003 <mike...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199809081702...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
HRott1880
>IMHO, a cap would ensure that nobody abused the priviledge.
WHAT???????????????????????????
A cap on marching band? I hope you are kidding here. Sounds like another
brilliant idea UIL would listen to so please don't pass on your "knowledge" to
some of the other Jethro's.
Look, if you're tired of getting beat by other bands that hire drill writers,
arrangers, colorguard personel and percussion staff, then get into the 90's,
hire them yourself or forever hold your peace. Every program has their right
to do things themself and if you decide to do so, I tip my hat to you.
However, placing a spending cap on other programs so they cannot further the
activity, and in the process extend the gap on your program, is WRONG.
Limit the amount of money we can spend on cancer research? How about limit the
amount orchestra's can spend commissioning a piece by a composer? Or, even
better, tell Bill Gates he can only spend XXXX amount on his next operating
system.........please.
Over it,
Hans Rott
Jason Mendoza
the phrasing, etc....Anyway, out director wrote our drill last year and we
won 4A state so your research couldn be completely correct. On the subject
of hiring other people, we have a director who does all percussion. He
writes our marching percussion music and works with the percussion on it. He
also helps out at the local middle school. Then, we have our flag
instructor, who specializes in woodwinds, mostly sax, but also directs the
2nd band during concert season. And, we have another person who does mainly
woodwinds and directs the 3rd band. Our head band director directs the 1st
band, writes drill, and all that other good director stuff.
Jay
Poseur1982
> Hans Rott
>
oh not this cracker.
/\/\
Glide825
>
> Please re-read the entire post. I never inferred a director who hired a
>drill writer or an arranger wasn't doing his or her job. In fact, I do some
>of that myself for other bands. The comment you question was in reference
>to some sort of cap on spending. Otherwise, what's to stop some director
>from spending $50K - $100K to hire someone to cover every aspect of his or
>her job? That's the key phrase that you're missing. I'm not against hiring
>consultants when needed, and different directors have different strengths
>and weaknesses. IMHO, a cap would ensure that nobody abused the priviledge.
>Sorry if I phrased my thoughts ambiguously, and good luck.
>
>Rodney Parker
Rodney,
I think I misread one of your earlier posts (that's where the quotes about "not
doing his job" and "taking credit for another's work" came from). It sounds
like we agree on the valuable contribution that consultants or
drillwriters/butchers/bakers/candlestick makers can bring to a program.
However, I have misgivings about establishing a cap on spending. Think of it
this way - if Wayne Downey, or Frederick Fennell or Gary Greene (or Eddie
Green) were to offer to clinic your band a few times for free, wouldn't you
jump at the opportunity??? For programs who are successful at raising the
funds to bring those people onboard, I say go for it! It benefits those
students immensely.
Glide
band...@mailcity.com
Otherwise, what's to stop some director
> from spending $50K - $100K to hire someone to cover every aspect of his or
> her job?
Enraged band parents with pitchforks and torches.
Yuk, yuk,
Oscar Garcia
>
> >Glide,
> >
> > Please re-read the entire post. I never inferred a director who hired a
> >drill writer or an arranger wasn't doing his or her job. In fact, I do some
> >of that myself for other bands. The comment you question was in reference
> >from spending $50K - $100K to hire someone to cover every aspect of his or
> >consultants when needed, and different directors have different strengths
> >and weaknesses. IMHO, a cap would ensure that nobody abused the priviledge.
> >Sorry if I phrased my thoughts ambiguously, and good luck.
> >
> >Rodney Parker
>
> Rodney,
>
> I think I misread one of your earlier posts (that's where the quotes about "not
> doing his job" and "taking credit for another's work" came from). It sounds
> like we agree on the valuable contribution that consultants or
> drillwriters/butchers/bakers/candlestick makers can bring to a program.
>
> However, I have misgivings about establishing a cap on spending. Think of it
> this way - if Wayne Downey, or Frederick Fennell or Gary Greene (or Eddie
> Green) were to offer to clinic your band a few times for free, wouldn't you
> jump at the opportunity??? For programs who are successful at raising the
> funds to bring those people onboard, I say go for it! It benefits those
> students immensely.
>
> Glide
Query,
In what way, does Mr. Parker that there is abuse in hiring consultants
to help with a marching program?
Alba Garcia
Riverside, Ca.
RCC Marching Tiger Retiree
[Wayne Downey -consults]
ToolsHNIC
>
Matt..are you dumb? Hans..Go easy on him...he's just a woodwind...
Michael
SFA Trombone
Sugar Land tx
co2000
My pick of the week: Richard Wagner's Tannhauser!!
Rodney Parker
>
>>IMHO, a cap would ensure that nobody abused the priviledge.
>
>
>A cap on marching band? I hope you are kidding here. Sounds like another
>brilliant idea UIL would listen to so please don't pass on your "knowledge"
to
>some of the other Jethro's.
Okay here goes. Several years ago, a certain school (I'm not saying if they
were in Texas or not) hired several DCI people to do their entire
show....all the way from writing the drill to teaching every aspect of the
drill and music....to the point where the director employed by the district
had practically no input on the band's performance. I believe that is
wrong!
>
>Look, if you're tired of getting beat by other bands that hire drill
writers,
>arrangers, colorguard personel and percussion staff, then get into the
90's,
>hire them yourself or forever hold your peace. Every program has their
right
>to do things themself and if you decide to do so, I tip my hat to you.
I'm not against hiring a drill writer, or an arranger, or any kind of
consultant......If you would read the entire post you would see that I do
employ a percussion instructor, Auxiliary Coordinator, and Twirling
Instructor. So this asinine statement "get into the 90's" is way off base.
The cap I speak of wouldn't affect 99% of the schools in the state, but
somewhere out there is someone with a literal "win at all cost" attitude.
If I spent $50K on consultants to do my entire show, and I did nothing, then
what the heck is my district paying me for? That very scenario is the only
reason I've mentioned a cap at all.
>However, placing a spending cap on other programs so they cannot further
the
>activity, and in the process extend the gap on your program, is WRONG.
As for being sour about "losing" to bands who hire drill writers.....you
know NOTHING about my program, so YOU need to get over it! Bash me all you
want, but back off my kids. They are the reason I do what I do, and they
make me look like a very good teacher. My bands are very competitive with
other bands in our classification (4A) around the state. I do my own drill
writing and arranging not because I think I'm morally obligated to do it,
but because I've been told I'm quite good at it, and there is no drill
writer or arranger who knows my band, and it's strengths and weaknesses, as
well as I do. I also do drill design for two or three other schools each
year, and would do even more if I had the time. So I would say I am
hip-deep into the 90's.
You saw the word cap and just "went to town" without reading the entire post
or my rationale for it. You reacted (or should I say......no I must say
"over-reacted") as if I'd said suggested a cap of $5. I've said several
times in my posts that the only cap I think needs to be considered is one
that prevents the extreme situation I spoke of earlier.
>Limit the amount of money we can spend on cancer research? How about limit
the
>amount orchestra's can spend commissioning a piece by a composer? Or, even
>better, tell Bill Gates he can only spend XXXX amount on his next operating
>system.........please.
To even compare this to the above mentioned subjects is ridiculous, and
doesn't deserve the dignity of a response. As someone who has lost a neice
to cancer, I consider the comparison of "buying a competitive advantage" to
eradicating a life-taking disease to be degrading and insulting.
Friends of mine have stayed away from posting on this NG because some of the
posters are teenagers who tend to speak out on matters they know nothing
about. I keep posting because there are lot of you who are quite dedicated
to your band, and are more than capable of intelligent discussion, even
fascinating conversation. I post a simple thought of mine, and the majority
of you have entertained it in a discussable manner. I respect the views of
those who differ on an intelligent level. There's always someone, however,
who shows his or her true intelligence level by shooting off their mouth
without having their ammo loaded.
Rodney Parker
Rodney Parker
folks in front of my band. Anyway, a cap like I mentioned would affect less
than 1% of the bands in Texas.
Rodney
Glide825 wrote in message
<199809111754...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>>Glide,
>>
>> Please re-read the entire post. I never inferred a director who hired
a
>>drill writer or an arranger wasn't doing his or her job. In fact, I do
some
>>of that myself for other bands. The comment you question was in reference
>>to some sort of cap on spending. Otherwise, what's to stop some director
>>from spending $50K - $100K to hire someone to cover every aspect of his or
>>her job? That's the key phrase that you're missing. I'm not against
hiring
>>consultants when needed, and different directors have different strengths
>>and weaknesses. IMHO, a cap would ensure that nobody abused the
priviledge.
Rodney Parker
concept would be abused is if some director hired consultants to handle
every aspect of his or her show, therefore leaving nothing for the director
himself to do. I've not seen it happen, but as with any profession, there
is someone who would try it should he or she have access to the necessary
funds.
Rodney
Oscar Garcia wrote in message <35F96B...@pacbell.net>...
DrPimp13
>posters are teenager
I'm a teenager, and apart from my signature, I think that my posts are nice and
I try to stay away from >tend to speak out on matters they know nothing
>about.
But I know what you mean and thats a shame, if you wanna see evil teenagers go
to RAMB. This NG is very informative and I love hearing what all of you
directors have to say.
~Chuck~
Grapevine HS
Clarinet Section Leader
Class of 2000 "~WE ALL KICK ASS IN OUR OWN LITTLE WAY~"
Jason Mendoza
Thanks
Jay
IWantToMarch
year , What's the big deal about this, I know he's "The Man" and all, and he
really helps your band, but all you have to do is ask him, and he'll clinic
you, he's a nice guy, It's well worth the money to get him to clinic you.
Another guy who taught a clinic for us, who I think should be listed here,
Frank Troyka (sorry for the spelling). Our band has a Drum Instructor
(Former Phantom Regiment), ColorGuard Instructor (Former Cavalier - Current
Glassmen), and Brass Instructor (Current Madison Scout who also teaches us
during concert season), Drill Writer (Current Madison Scouts), Music Writer
(Current Blue Knights and world renound composer). We have a few directors
from our Junior Highs that marched Scouts that help us occasionally. We have
a great staff that I've learned alot from, and have influenced me to further
my career in music. You can't possibly say that our band directors don't
deserve to be paid, or don't do their jobs, Our Head Director is out there
at 6:55 every morning, and although she doesn't do much with marching, she
greatly influences our music.
IWantToMarch
Rodney Parker
Jason Mendoza wrote in message <6tes02$eh1$1...@excalibur.flash.net>...
Rodney Parker
The problem is that I am 600 miles from UH, and I don't have the budget to
include airfare and lodging on top of his honorarium. Instead, we have some
very good clinicians in our area who do a wonderful job.
Rodney Parker
IWantToMarch wrote in message <6tenmh$pus$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
kell...@postoffice.swbell.net
harshly for saying this, but ARE YOU BLIND?! I'm the DM of my band right now, and I
know that we work as hard as several of the more wealthy bands. Some bands win at
all cost, and that's not all! One of the bands whose name will not be mention, was
caught by the UIL people breaking a few rules (concert band-members of top ensemble
playing in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th groups...great way to ensure success). Were they
punished...NO! If my band did things like that, we would have be disqualified and
blacklisted. Some of the top bands in the state spend so much on their show, that
hard working bands, like mine can't compete! We might spend several thousand
dolloars, but not anywhere near 30 or 50! That's ridiculous, you can't compete with
that. While we're fantasizing about a spending cap and dropping the 8 hour rule,
let's add a size limit! 400 people is too much! Let's have maximum size band
of...190 or 200. Then EVERY band has a chance!
HRott1880 wrote:
> Rodney Parker said:
>
> >IMHO, a cap would ensure that nobody abused the priviledge.
>
> WHAT???????????????????????????
>
> A cap on marching band? I hope you are kidding here. Sounds like another
> brilliant idea UIL would listen to so please don't pass on your "knowledge" to
> some of the other Jethro's.
>
> Look, if you're tired of getting beat by other bands that hire drill writers,
> arrangers, colorguard personel and percussion staff, then get into the 90's,
> hire them yourself or forever hold your peace. Every program has their right
> to do things themself and if you decide to do so, I tip my hat to you.
> However, placing a spending cap on other programs so they cannot further the
> activity, and in the process extend the gap on your program, is WRONG.
>
> Limit the amount of money we can spend on cancer research? How about limit the
> amount orchestra's can spend commissioning a piece by a composer? Or, even
> better, tell Bill Gates he can only spend XXXX amount on his next operating
> system.........please.
>
> Over it,
> Hans Rott
ToolsHNIC
> Let's have maximum size band
>of...190 or 200
This statement is dumb. If anything the band with 400 people would have it
harder.
Glide825
>Now, I'm not an expert or anything, and I'm sure that you're going to flame me
>harshly for saying this, but ARE YOU BLIND?! I'm the DM of my band right now,
and I
>know that we work as hard as several of the more wealthy bands. Some bands win
at
>all cost, and that's not all! One of the bands whose name will not be mention,
was
>caught by the UIL people breaking a few rules (concert band-members of top
ensemble
>playing in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th groups...great way to ensure success). Were they
>punished...NO! If my band did things like that, we would have be disqualified
and
>blacklisted. Some of the top bands in the state spend so much on their show,
that
>hard working bands, like mine can't compete! We might spend several thousand
>dolloars, but not anywhere near 30 or 50! That's ridiculous, you can't compete
with
>that. While we're fantasizing about a spending cap and dropping the 8 hour
rule,
>let's add a size limit! 400 people is too much! Let's have maximum size band
>of...190 or 200. Then EVERY band has a chance!
Kelly - No 'harsh flame' intended, but let me probe a bit...
1. Where do you think 'wealthy bands' get their money? Did you know that most
of them fund raise the $, just as your band can?
2. Rumors in this state about UIL violations are as abundant as they are
preposterous. If you can't cite facts and mention names then it likely isn't
true.
3. Limiting band size would be destructive: The point of the activity is to
enrich students' lives with music (preferably as many students as possible).
If you want more people in the band, recruiting at the lower grades - and
retaining those recruits - is the key.
Consider these things. Thanks.
Glide
Rodney Parker
Glide, I'm gonna defend Kelly a bit here on a couple of points.
>1. Where do you think 'wealthy bands' get their money? Did you know that
most
>of them fund raise the $, just as your band can?
Some districts in the State put a limit on the amount of fundraising an
organization can do, to keep it from seeming like someone is always at the
door asking for money. My district doesn't allow any fundraising at all ( a
throwback to a few years ago when our oil revenues covered everything, and I
do mean everything). Now, the oil is drying up, but the restriction is
still there. We must approach the board about any project we wish to do.
>2. Rumors in this state about UIL violations are as abundant as they are
>preposterous. If you can't cite facts and mention names then it likely
isn't
>true.
Not necessarily so. There was a band in Texas two years ago that put top
band members in the 2nd and 3rd band. I respect not mentioning names for
one reason. Some members of that band or their competitors may read this
NG. Why put them through any further embarassment by calling attention to a
decision they had no part in making, and yet they were still punished for it
along with the offending director.
You are absolutely right about limiting size of bands. Legally speaking, it
can't be done. We as directors cannot summarily deny a student the right to
be a part of our program, and how would it look to have 200 alternates on
the sideline? Recruiting is the key.
Finally, numbers only go so far. The quality has to be present for the
numbers to mean anything. At the contest level, quality beats quantity
anyway. I know many directors who'll tell you nightmares about having too
many kids on the field. It's great when you have that first show, and "part
the audience's hair" with the first note. But ask any director about how it
is to "clean" the drill with 280 people on the field. Ask me about cleaning
with 150. It's a tough job, but not as tough as 280 would be. Does that
mean I wouldn't take 280? Regardless of how mush easier cleaning a smaller
group would be.......I still have my ego! (hehe).
Good luck to all
Rodney Parker
kell...@postoffice.swbell.net
people to cover up mistakes, with 190 or 200, you can have a great show, and
still have something to judge.
Charlie
Madison High School Drum Major
c/o 00
ToolsHNIC wrote:
> >let's add a size limit!
>
> > Let's have maximum size band
Rodney Parker
(Varsity, JV).
Rodney Parker
ksw wrote in message ...
>On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:56:17 -0500 "Rodney Parker" <rlpa...@door.net>
>wrote:
>>
>> >
>> Not necessarily so. There was a band in Texas two years ago that put top
>> band members in the 2nd and 3rd band. I respect not mentioning names for
>> one reason. Some members of that band or their competitors may read this
>> NG. Why put them through any further embarassment by calling attention
to a
>> decision they had no part in making, and yet they were still punished for
it
>> along with the offending director.
>> r
>
>From my understanding you can be in as many bands as long as you play
>different instruments.
>I did it.On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:56:17 -0500 "Rodney Parker"
><rlpa...@door.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email -- always at Talkway.
>http://www.talkway.com
>
>
MikeM1003
>
>> >let's add a size limit!
>>
>> > Let's have maximum size band
>> >of...190 or 200
>>
There are advantages and disadvantages in having a 250 + size band. To some
people large is impressive, a sure audience pleaser. However, from experience
I can say that larger bands are much more unwieldy. The size can restrict you
as much as a very small band as for as what can be done in a confined space
like a football field.
To the layman, quantify is better. To the trained person quality is better.
Even I am "impressed" with a large band..who isn't? But I have seen very few
that can be as effective fundamentally as they are impressive in size. It just
all depends on what you looking for.
Belton, years ago, made a very good repetition by not allowing more than 100 on
the football field at any one show. Then there was Warren, ( at the time a AAA
school) who make a very lasting impression marching 33 and was very good at it.
Michael Montgomery
>>Others bands may be good, but I still favor the Military Style.<<
ksw
HRott1880
<< Okay here goes. Several years ago, a certain school (I'm not saying if they
were in Texas or not) hired several DCI people to do their entire
show....all the way from writing the drill to teaching every aspect of the
drill and music....to the point where the director employed by the district
had practically no input on the band's performance. I believe that is
<<<<in an earlier post you said>>>>
IMHO, a cap would ensure that nobody abused the priviledge. >>
Let me ask you this question since you came up with the "cap on marching
band spending" idea. How would marching bands benefit from this better? You
are saying limit the amount of money a program can spend correct? The band
you're speaking of may have had other reasons for hiring a full staff like
preparing for Mid-West for example. Even if they hired people to come help
teach the show every day, I say those kids got more specialized attention then
a band program who only used their 2-3 directors. The kids were educated more
not less.....isn't that what education is all about? Now, if that band
director you speak of was on the golf course during rehearsals while these
people taught his program, I would say you have a valid argument. Place a
limit on the amount of money a program can spend and you limit the growth of
this activity.....plain and simple.
Believe me, if custom arrangements, drill, percussion books, tech's, etc.
didn't make this activity move forward, no one would be hiring these people.
They do cost money and who is anyone to restrict the amount they get paid?
I used these examples to make a point:
Limit the amount of money we can spend on cancer research? How about limit
the amount orchestra's can spend commissioning a piece by a composer? Or, even
better, tell Bill Gates he can only spend XXXX amount on his next operating
system.........please.
And you went on to lecture the world about your neice this and how to load ammo
into your mouth.
I truely am sorry about your neice but my statement wasn't aimed at her. I
used cancer research, composer commissions and Microsoft development as
examples of "what would happen if we limit their spending". They were meant to
make you realize the stupidity of your "marching band cap" statement......not
act as a personal attack on your family.
As for you questioning my intelligence, I would be happy to compare my resume
to yours whenever you would like. You have my email address. Nobody in this
activity knows it all but some of us come into contact with more than a 4A band
outside of Lubbock.
Hans Rott
Rodney Parker
(which we all seek to attain) & and "unfair" competitive advantage. As I
mentioned, the cap which I speak of (and it didn't come from me, it's been
kicked around in this state for 10 years or so) would not affect 99% of the
bands in this state. Who knows, maybe it isn't needed. Maybe there are
enough conscienceous directors and parents out there who would never allow
it to happen at their school. I don't care what the advantage is......if
you come by it honestly, then more power to you. If you hire someone else
to do every aspect of your job, then what are you being paid for?
Whether you believe it is needed or not, I stand by my statement.
>I truely am sorry about your neice but my statement wasn't aimed at her.
Apology accepted.
Rodney Parker
Rodney Parker
Rodney Parker
RLS lIlIll wrote in message
<199809150038...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>>> Not necessarily so. There was a band in Texas two years ago that put
top
>>> band members in the 2nd and 3rd band. I respect not mentioning names
for
>>> one reason. Some members of that band or their competitors may read
this
>>> NG. Why put them through any further embarassment by calling attention
>to a
>>> decision they had no part in making, and yet they were still punished
for
>it
>>> along with the offending director.
>>> r
>
>Maybe they didn't use those players for UIL, and they just used them at a
>concert. I know that we've played Stars and Stripes in second band with all
the
>brass in the first band as well, but that was just a concert.
>
>
>
>^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
>But you don't have to take my word for it
>WCHS Charger Band '96-'00
>San Antonio, Tx
>Trumpets rule
RLS lIlIll
Rodney Parker
you credit for introducing a scenario that could have also been true, and
probably was at many schools. "Maybe" is just as much a part of the English
language as any other word, and there are some of us (in fact, I say most of
us) that respect the rights of someone to say something contrary to what we
might think.
Good luck
Rodney Parker
RLS lIlIll wrote in message
<199809160057...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>>I know for a fact the students were used at UIL.
>>
>>Rodney Parker
>
>I apologize if my words were phrased as to give you the belief that I
>disbelieved you. I guess I just felt like saying that there is a
possibility
>that the students were only used in a concert. I respect your knowledge in
the
>fact that I am still a student whereas you are a director. I know all of
you
>know what's going on with everyone. But it was still pretty cool playing
S&S
>with 16 trumpets and 8 tubas and 20 trombones all blowing their heads off
(with
>a good sound of course) on the stage. Oh well that's just my couple of
cents.