Whare Ra/Stella Matutina history request
Roel van Leeuwen
particulary from c1950 till whenever.
In particular the construction and use of Whare Ra (is Whare Ra built
according to scared geometry and how much of an input did the Felkins
have when Chapman-Taylor drafted the plans, how often were
classes/lectures held, were there many/any overseas visitors?).
Did Jack Taylor learn his colour therapy techniques primarily from
Felkin or did he get them elsewhere and how closely did they
correspond to GD colour theory.
What was the 'flavour' of the temple during Taylors stewardship?
Did Ann Davis (BOTA) visit to NZ have much of an effect of the temple?
What happened post 1978-79?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Roel van Leeuwen
Roel van Leeuwen
>
>
>Roel van Leeuwen <mit...@wave.co.nz> wrote in article
><360e29ce...@news.wave.co.nz>...
>> I am looking for some source of the history of the SM in New Zealand
>> particulary from c1950 till whenever.
>
<SNIP>
>> and how much of an input did the Felkins
>> have when Chapman-Taylor drafted the plans,
>
>Very little if any at all I understand. The house was already built when
>they arrived.
>
I understood that the felkins had the house purpose built for the SM
temple by Chapman-Taylor. Does this mean that you are saying that the
house was built by someone else? Or that the Felkins didn't have much
input beyond a general 'do what you want except make sure there is a
room so big by so big...' input?
>> were there many/any overseas visitors?).
>
>Once the over seas Temples all closed there were many over seas visitors.
>Lots of members (who could afford to travel) came here to get further
>grades. Also there were visitors from other disciplines too.
>
I assume the visitors were primarily from the UK temples...
If Felkin was happy to teach these students and students of other
systems it would imply that he was not xenophobic and was happy to
impart at least outer order material.
Did Felkin learn from these students from other systems, or did he
take a 'one true path' approach to the GD material?
Did the number of overseas visitors decline after Robert Felkins
death?
What were the 'other disciplines'?
Any comments to the above anyone?
>> Did Jack Taylor learn his colour therapy techniques primarily from
>> Felkin
>
>I dont know that he learned much from Feliokn at all. Not sure. I have some
>of his old colour therapy stuff and its all quite rough.
>
>> or did he get them elsewhere and how closely did they
>> correspond to GD colour theory.
>
>The fundamental system was GD astrological and Qabalistic colour scheme.
>But its hard to make out because the papers I have and habe seen are a
>mess.
>
I have no real idea of the Felkin-Taylor colour therapy connection, I
vaguly recall a comment made in a conversation some years ago about
another subject (Alice Baileys 'Arcane School' in New Zealand) that
connected the two, so i am very much interested in any clarification
of the matter.
>> What was the 'flavour' of the temple during Taylors stewardship?
>
>Taylors stewardship? Who told you he was ever 'steward?'
>
I ment steward in the sense of 'bloke-in-charge' rather than the guy
in a green apron handing out sausage rolls and scotch.
>> Did Ann Davis (BOTA) visit to NZ have much of an effect of the temple?
>
>Yes. She was drunk when she talked with the authorities of the GD and they
>were no impressed. Subsequently Ann's hope that the two Orders would join
>was rejected by the GD rep's because of this.
>
Heh, I would love to do my Masters on this subject as just about
everyone I have spoken too has a different view/reading of the events
:)
>> What happened post 1978-79?
>
>Nothing. The few Ex'Whare Ra Adepti that are left aggressively repress
>everything about the old Order. There were a few splinter groups,
>Thoth-Hermes that was in Wellington being the most notible, and Horus
>Temple in HB later (1990 on).
>
Cheers
Roel
Roel van Leeuwen
>In article <360e29ce...@news.wave.co.nz>,
> mit...@wave.co.nz (Roel van Leeuwen) wrote:
>> I am looking for some source of the history of the SM in New Zealand
>> particulary from c1950 till whenever.
>>
>> Did Ann Davis (BOTA) visit to NZ have much of an effect of the temple?
>
>There was no one named Ann Davis of BOTA. However, there was an Ann Davies
>(nee Epstein) who was Chief of the Order.
At 1 in the morning I am allowed to forget the occassional 'e' :)
>Certain members of the Whare Ra had received an inner communication the
>purport of which was to expect a visitation from a Master who would come to
>New Zealand to bring the GD students back into the true way of the Mysteries.
Any idea whom? I have often heard of Ann Davies 'lost sheep' but I
haven't heard that there were some within the SM who received a
similar communication.
> Also, in the early 1960's, Ann Davies had a vision concerning certain "lost
>sheep" of the Western Mysteries located in New Zealand whom she was destined
>to bring back into the fold. Ann Davies put out a record album of a BOTA
>Temple Service in which she coded a clue as to her status, and which she
>expected would be recognized by the lost sheep adepti in New Zealand. This
>plan worked, and the coded message was retrieved by certain New Zealand
>adepti (including a fellow named Wallace), who immediately recognized the
>sign of the Master whom they were expecting to visit.
What I understand happened was that Alistair Wallace obtained the
record at 'Goodies Bookshop' in Auckland and then made contact with
Davies. When Davies came out it was Goodie who enabled Wallace and
Davies to make contact with the SM folk. The version I head was that
Wallace was not involved in the SM, though like all history a mistake
could have been made in the recounting of the events.
Subsequently, Ann
>Davies did visit New Zealand, and a number of the Whare Ra adepti resigned
>and joined B.O.T.A. instead. This includes the same Wallace who became the
>head of BOTA in New Zealand.
Was Will Chesterman a member of the SM?
Whare Ra, shorn of its former inner contact,
>was closed down in 1979 amid controversy and argumentation. However, the
>newly planted BOTA Temple in New Zealand continues to thrive and grow. Ann
>Davies has left a certain legacy, including the teachings on "Meditational
>Ascent on the Tree of Livingness." Comparison of Davies' teachings with some
>of the lectures attributed to Mrs. Felkin which have been published by Mr.
>Zalewski may throw light on the question of why Whare Ra is gone but BOTA
>survives and thrives.
Hmm, occult gossip has it that BOTA has a few problems of its own
currently with a number of charters being suspended and, I beleive,
revoked.
Cheers
Roel
Parush
Roel van Leeuwen <mit...@wave.co.nz> wrote in article
<360e29ce...@news.wave.co.nz>...
> I am looking for some source of the history of the SM in New Zealand
> particulary from c1950 till whenever.
Okey ... I live a hop skip and jump from the site and I know something of
its past so I'll help where I can.
> In particular the construction and use of Whare Ra (is Whare Ra built
> according to scared geometry
No. In fact its quite a crude structure.
> and how much of an input did the Felkins
> have when Chapman-Taylor drafted the plans,
Very little if any at all I understand. The house was already built when
they arrived.
> how often were
> classes/lectures held,
Its hard to say things changed over the long history of the Temple. But I
know at least for a good deal of the time weekend workshops were held
regularly.
> were there many/any overseas visitors?).
Once the over seas Temples all closed there were many over seas visitors.
Lots of members (who could afford to travel) came here to get further
grades. Also there were visitors from other disciplines too.
> Did Jack Taylor learn his colour therapy techniques primarily from
> Felkin
I dont know that he learned much from Feliokn at all. Not sure. I have some
of his old colour therapy stuff and its all quite rough.
> or did he get them elsewhere and how closely did they
> correspond to GD colour theory.
The fundamental system was GD astrological and Qabalistic colour scheme.
But its hard to make out because the papers I have and habe seen are a
mess.
> What was the 'flavour' of the temple during Taylors stewardship?
Taylors stewardship? Who told you he was ever 'steward?'
> Did Ann Davis (BOTA) visit to NZ have much of an effect of the temple?
Yes. She was drunk when she talked with the authorities of the GD and they
were no impressed. Subsequently Ann's hope that the two Orders would join
was rejected by the GD rep's because of this.
> What happened post 1978-79?
Nothing. The few Ex'Whare Ra Adepti that are left aggressively repress
everything about the old Order. There were a few splinter groups,
Thoth-Hermes that was in Wellington being the most notible, and Horus
Temple in HB later (1990 on).
> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Theres more if you want it ...
Regards
P
wo...@tiw.com
> particulary from c1950 till whenever.
>
There was no one named Ann Davis of BOTA. However, there was an Ann Davies
(nee Epstein) who was Chief of the Order. (Ann Davies is no relation to Alan
Davies, a past Supreme Magus of S.R.I.A.)
Certain members of the Whare Ra had received an inner communication the
purport of which was to expect a visitation from a Master who would come to
New Zealand to bring the GD students back into the true way of the Mysteries.
Also, in the early 1960's, Ann Davies had a vision concerning certain "lost
sheep" of the Western Mysteries located in New Zealand whom she was destined
to bring back into the fold. Ann Davies put out a record album of a BOTA
Temple Service in which she coded a clue as to her status, and which she
expected would be recognized by the lost sheep adepti in New Zealand. This
plan worked, and the coded message was retrieved by certain New Zealand
adepti (including a fellow named Wallace), who immediately recognized the
sign of the Master whom they were expecting to visit. Subsequently, Ann
Davies did visit New Zealand, and a number of the Whare Ra adepti resigned
and joined B.O.T.A. instead. This includes the same Wallace who became the
head of BOTA in New Zealand. Whare Ra, shorn of its former inner contact,
was closed down in 1979 amid controversy and argumentation. However, the
newly planted BOTA Temple in New Zealand continues to thrive and grow. Ann
Davies has left a certain legacy, including the teachings on "Meditational
Ascent on the Tree of Livingness." Comparison of Davies' teachings with some
of the lectures attributed to Mrs. Felkin which have been published by Mr.
Zalewski may throw light on the question of why Whare Ra is gone but BOTA
survives and thrives. Jesus said "By their fruits you shall know them."
Today, Ann Davies' successor as head of BOTA lives in New Zealand.
>
> Roel van Leeuwen
>
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wo...@tiw.com
> > mit...@wave.co.nz (Roel van Leeuwen) wrote:
> >> I am looking for some source of the history of the SM in New Zealand
> >> particulary from c1950 till whenever.
> >>
> >> Did Ann Davis (BOTA) visit to NZ have much of an effect of the temple?
> >
> >There was no one named Ann Davis of BOTA. However, there was an Ann Davies
> >(nee Epstein) who was Chief of the Order.
>
>
> >purport of which was to expect a visitation from a Master who would come to
> >New Zealand to bring the GD students back into the true way of the Mysteries.
>
> haven't heard that there were some within the SM who received a
> similar communication.
Haven't a clue on that. But the "inner tradition" of B.O.T.A. is that Ann
Davies was trying to create an energy interchange between Northern and
Southern Hemisphere through creating the NZ group, in order to prevent the
world from spinning off its axis!!!
>
> > Also, in the early 1960's, Ann Davies had a vision concerning certain "lost
> >sheep" of the Western Mysteries located in New Zealand whom she was destined
> >to bring back into the fold. Ann Davies put out a record album of a BOTA
> >Temple Service in which she coded a clue as to her status, and which she
> >expected would be recognized by the lost sheep adepti in New Zealand. This
> >plan worked, and the coded message was retrieved by certain New Zealand
> >adepti (including a fellow named Wallace), who immediately recognized the
> >sign of the Master whom they were expecting to visit.
>
> What I understand happened was that Alistair Wallace obtained the
> record at 'Goodies Bookshop' in Auckland and then made contact with
> Davies. When Davies came out it was Goodie who enabled Wallace and
> Davies to make contact with the SM folk. The version I head was that
> Wallace was not involved in the SM,
Actually, he was a 5=6 in SM (or rather Whare Ra, to be more precise), and I
once saw a photo of him wearing some variant regalia. He was wearing a
GD-like 2nd order robe, with a golden hexagram on the back!!!
> though like all history a mistake
> could have been made in the recounting of the events.
>
> Subsequently, Ann
> >Davies did visit New Zealand, and a number of the Whare Ra adepti resigned
> >and joined B.O.T.A. instead. This includes the same Wallace who became the
> >head of BOTA in New Zealand.
>
> Was Will Chesterman a member of the SM?
No he never was. Alistair Wallace was Davies' first choice as head of BOTA
in NZ. There was a love affair between Wallace and Davies (single at that
time), and they were engaged to be married. While Davies was in LA,
Chesterman came over to Wallace's house and found him in the arms of Another
Woman, and after being informed of this by Chesterman the upshot was that
Davies ended her engagement with Wallace. Wallace died soon afterwards of a
heart-attack, and Davies called up Chesterman to appoint him head of BOTA in
New Zealand. Davies said that the heart-ache of all the troubles in New
Zealand nearly killed her. She died in '75 of cancer.
>
> Whare Ra, shorn of its former inner contact,
> >was closed down in 1979 amid controversy and argumentation. However, the
> >newly planted BOTA Temple in New Zealand continues to thrive and grow.
Ann
> >Davies has left a certain legacy, including the teachings on "Meditational
> >Ascent on the Tree of Livingness." Comparison of Davies' teachings with some
> >of the lectures attributed to Mrs. Felkin which have been published by Mr.
> >Zalewski may throw light on the question of why Whare Ra is gone but BOTA
> >survives and thrives.
>
> Hmm, occult gossip has it that BOTA has a few problems of its own
> currently with a number of charters being suspended and, I beleive,
> revoked.
Oh that sounds like business as usual in this "purgatorial world." But they
can't revoke our charter!!!
Cheers,
Robert
>
> Cheers
>
> Roel
mithr...@my-dejanews.com
>
> No he never was. Alistair Wallace was Davies' first choice as head of BOTA
> in NZ. There was a love affair between Wallace and Davies (single at
that
> time), and they were engaged to be married. While Davies was in LA,
> Chesterman came over to Wallace's house and found him in the arms of Another
> Woman, and after being informed of this by Chesterman the upshot was that
> Davies ended her engagement with Wallace. Wallace died soon afterwards of a
> heart-attack, and Davies called up Chesterman to appoint him head of BOTA in
> New Zealand. Davies said that the heart-ache of all the troubles in New
> Zealand nearly killed her. She died in '75 of cancer.
>
the lady's first name was Cynthia and she was a member of the Auckland temple
as I remember it. I received a lovely peice of 'oral tradition' regarding
all that from a member of the Auckland temple. To cut a long story short
Alistair eventually rejected Ann and had designs of his own. He was caught
doing the wild monkey dance in the temple with the aforementioned lady,
Cynthia (who was a chief if I remember correctly). The temples warrent was
suspended and a member whom I'll call John collected the regailia to prevent
Alistair obtaining it and using it to form another temple. Davies came out
to quell the crisis and possible rebellion and ended up in a magicaly war
with Wallace, the upshot of which was that Wallace died and Davies was
'mortally wounded'. There are passages in the Auckland 30 year jubilee
publication which support this (as well as support the above version).
Another informant(to slip into my anthropology mode) is of the opinion that
Wallace was working sex magic and that somehow it all can be blaimed on a
Crowleyian influence. But then again this particular informant beleived that
everything from Davies death to the civil war in Yugoslavia can be blaimed on
Crowley and the OTO.
Mind you that seemed to be a common theme among quite a few of the members in
Auckland...
Parush
Hi Roel,
> >Certain members of the Whare Ra had received an inner communication the
> >purport of which was to expect a visitation from a Master who would come
to
> >New Zealand to bring the GD students back into the true way of the
Mysteries.
> Any idea whom? I have often heard of Ann Davies 'lost sheep' but I
> haven't heard that there were some within the SM who received a
> similar communication.
Mrs Felkin received the msg and it was confirmed by an Anthroposophist in
Aussie who had had the same or very similar msg without knowing about
M/Felkins. Tauhara center in Taupo NZ was purpose built to house this
individual. Its interesting to note that Frater Albertus when he visited NZ
in the late 60's early 70s claimed to be this Master.
> Was Will Chesterman a member of the SM?
Very unlikely. He detests the GD system today. (Thats from the horses
mouth)
> Hmm, occult gossip has it that BOTA has a few problems of its own
> currently with a number of charters being suspended and, I beleive,
> revoked.
BOTA Chapters in the US and a number of Pronai and study groups have been
closed or drastically rediced in numbers in order to attempt to 'purge' the
OTO, FLO, GD and other 'unsavory elements' out of their ranks.
Regards
P
Pat Zalweski
wrote:
did tell Anne Davies to leavce during a meeting at house when she started
talking gibberish. The charted Horus Temples you mentioned was bundle of fun.
Greg Boag went to and ex 6-=5 form Whare ra, Percy Willinson(whom I introduced
him to) to to get put through the 0=0 and when Percy turned up Greg had a
charter for him to sign and Percy out him i na straight Portal.He rang me up
to tell me the same day. Greg wanted a 5=6 from me and saw me a few times but
I told him him he'd have to work his arse off. Nothing that was forthcoming
from him after that.I told him he havbe to go back and study the lemental
rituals. he told me there was no need as he knew all that. I gave him a
diagram from the 4=7, left him alone for an hour and told him to study it and
tell me all about it.When I returned he told me he knew it form a subliminal
viewpoint. He couldn't tell me a thing. I then told him he'd after to do
better than that. Percy died suddenly and his wife rang me up and asked me
what to do with all Percy's pappers and did i want them. I told here to pass
them on the Greg as his temple was up and running and not to worry about it.I
then started to check some of my material off against what percy had and Greg
decide he was going to sell me the stuff.I told him to take a jump and that if
it was not for me he would not have anything in the first place. He made some
remarks to me and I have not seen him for years. Now I have now moved to the
area where he lives I eagerly look forward to meeting him face to face to
repeat said remarks.Greg now has quit the GD work and does his own thing which
is wateerd down Gd work. .
wo...@tiw.com
Well I would rather give someone their say rather than throwing them out.
Sorry it was too much for Jack to handle, I thought he was a 7=4. Well when
I met Ann Davies she was packing in over a hundred people in a small Temple
area (packed to overflowing that is), and lecturing in a very lucid way on
practical qabalah. Ann was simply wonderful. Now there's a real 7=4 for you.
REW
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Pat Zalweski
Whare Ra History can possibly be divided into the following main Branches.
One is through Frank Salt a former Hierophant form Whare ra who mingled with
with many people in Auckland and advanced one to the 5=6.Unfortunately there
is far too much put in what Frank said without additional cross checking with
othe rformer members. ,
The second is through Tony F...... who knew Frank and also was related to a
former member of high rank and is a BOTA member and new a few that were in it.
The third is through Bob Elwoods book `Islands of the Dawn' which has a good
chapter on it.
The fourth is from BOTA who had some members in it that left Whare Ra and
formed BOTA in New Zealand. Some at Whare ra had done the BOTA course as well
so there was some cross polinisation there but it was a limited.
The fifth is from my work. I might add that I knew and trained with over a
dozen ex members of high rank ex Whare ra and got a pretty good idea from them
what went on.
If you cross Tony F...... history with mine you have a pretty good overall
picture.Ours was not just liimted to just one member giving out information
such as Frank, but a variety of high ranking members helped us both many times
over the years. Tony and I have often cross checked with each other sharing
information and documents to try and make sure we got out history correct.In
our case Tony and I had access to former members that the other did not so
when a story of an event was told to one of us we often checked it with out
own contacts.
Roel van Leeuwen
>Hi Roel still doing Shorin Ryu?
Good memory! :) My focus has moved to Koryu Uchinadi (not high enough
instructors locally in SR). I have been really enjoying your articles
in NZMAM by the way. The most intellegent things in there usually.
>You fairly well covered most of it. Jack taylor
>did tell Anne Davies to leavce during a meeting at house when she started
>talking gibberish.
1963? From memory this was the same year Ethel Felkin and Reginald
Gardner died. Did the members read any significance into the timing
of Davies visit? If Jack ejected Davies did that mean he have
'political' authority (Imperitor/chief/biggest guy in the room)? Did
Alistair Wallace accompany her?
>The charted Horus Temples you mentioned was bundle of fun.
>Greg Boag went to and ex 6-=5 form Whare ra, Percy Willinson(whom I introduced
>him to) to to get put through the 0=0 and when Percy turned up Greg had a
>charter for him to sign and Percy out him i na straight Portal.
Is Percy Willinson an ex Imperitor? (-wondering on what authority he
signed the warrent)
And while we are on that subject is there anywhere a list of
chiefs/Imperitors of Whare Ra?
Roel van Leeuwen
Pat Zalweski
>
>>Hi Roel still doing Shorin Ryu?
>
>Good memory! :) My focus has moved to Koryu Uchinadi (not high enough
>instructors locally in SR). I have been really enjoying your articles
>in NZMAM by the way. The most intellegent things in there usually.
>
>>You fairly well covered most of it. Jack taylor
>>did tell Anne Davies to leavce during a meeting at house when she started
>>talking gibberish.
>
>1963? From memory this was the same year Ethel Felkin and Reginald
>Gardner died. Did the members read any significance into the timing
>of Davies visit? If Jack ejected Davies did that mean he have
>'political' authority (Imperitor/chief/biggest guy in the room)? Did
>Alistair Wallace accompany her?
>
Order called Order of the Table Round. I am not sure of the year but I will
ask someone who was there .According to Jack they had a meeting and many of
those who had left Whare ra and still worked Magick through the OTR meet with
here to talk about doing things under the BOTA banner. There was quite a few
high Ranking members in the OTR who could not work under the then main Chief
and opted to work with Jack. During the meeting Anne Davies went into a trance
and started talking in tongue or `gibberish' as jack called it. Nothing could
be said over her and Jack ended up asking her to leave. She just sat there
spurting out god only knows what then Jack told her to get out. .I think
Wallace was there serving her straight Vodka. She told them at the meeting
that she was the Adept for the entire planet and they must acknowledge here as
such .This was a bit too much for most of them to swallow.This is when one of
the guys rushed out of the room and jack found him bowled over in
laughter.Tony F.. has more information on the results of that than I do. You
know his name Roel but for the public we should keep it as Tony F. Anne Davies
nearly did pull it off-trying take over Whare ra though. John Von dadelzen,
the main Chief told me one night that they refused because of the demands she
put on them. He was not being totally truthfull here. She nearly got hold of
it in 1964 and 1969.She kept calling Wallace a great adept (he was 5=6) when
the reality was he barely more than adequate compared to some at Whare ra. I
have this from many sources including his ex wife who was also an ex 5=6. I
think Anne wanted to put Wallace in charge and while the remaining chiefs were
to fade into the background and they would not have it. Archie Shaw, one of
the Chiefs in 64 walked out due to arguments over BOTA but what it was about
I do not know.Mrs. Felkin and Gardiner died in 59 and Miss Felkin in 61 I
think. So they had lost their direction a bit. There is a bit more to this
but. I have asked Tony .F to do a paper on this one day and bring it all out
into the open. It will make interesting reading if he does but I do not see it
happening in the immediate future.
Sar Draconis
Fascinating account, Pat. Your claim that Ann Davies went into a
trance, talking gibberish, and speaking in tongues, is about as
interesting and believable as your fictional stories about me, posted in
this very forum.
Usually writers of fiction employ names unrelated to real persons or
events, but occult fiction tends to be an exception (see, for example,
the excellent novel of Robert Anton Wilson in which Albert Einstein
meets Aleister Crowley). With a few books already in print, and some
internet posts to his credit, Pat Zalewski has already shown some
promise as a budding fictional novelist; his productions usually need
nothing more than an editorial going to clean up the grammar, spelling,
etc. What an interesting way to make a living.
SAR
Pat Zalweski
who was at that meeting ( his name is Ron Raison) and furnished me with the
information as Jack Taylor and Frank Salt did independently. Since I was not
there I can only pass on what was told to me by those that were
>Usually writers of fiction employ names unrelated to real persons or
>events, but occult fiction tends to be an exception (see, for example,
>the excellent novel of Robert Anton Wilson in which Albert Einstein
>meets Aleister Crowley). With a few books already in print, and some
>internet posts to his credit, Pat Zalewski has already shown some
>promise as a budding fictional novelist; his productions usually need
>nothing more than an editorial going to clean up the grammar, spelling,
>etc. What an interesting way to make a living.
>
Thank your Robert, and I deeply apologise if my dyslexia in the past has
offended your sense of asethetics.
>SAR
Roel van Leeuwen
>>1963? From memory this was the same year Ethel Felkin and Reginald
>>Gardner died. Did the members read any significance into the timing
>>of Davies visit? If Jack ejected Davies did that mean he have
>>'political' authority (Imperitor/chief/biggest guy in the room)? Did
>>Alistair Wallace accompany her?
>>
>Jack at this time was not with Whare Ra but was in charge of a small side
>Order called Order of the Table Round.
Is the OTR still operative?
Is it a magical or speculative order? (I rather assumed it was
speculative in character)
> I have asked Tony .F to do a paper on this one day and bring it all out
>into the open. It will make interesting reading if he does but I do not see it
>happening in the immediate future.
Won't he be caught in a conflict of interests to a certain extent?
R.
-------------------
Roel van Leeuwen
Sar Draconis
>
> In article <361FB7...@ix.netcom.com>, pa...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >Pat Zalweski wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <361ac408...@news.wave.co.nz>, mit...@wave.co.nz (Roel van
> >> Leeuwen) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Hi Roel still doing Shorin Ryu?
> >> >
> >> >Good memory! :) My focus has moved to Koryu Uchinadi (not high enough
> >> >instructors locally in SR). I have been really enjoying your articles
> >> >in NZMAM by the way. The most intellegent things in there usually.
> >> >
> >> >>You fairly well covered most of it. Jack taylor
> >> >>did tell Anne Davies to leavce during a meeting at house when she started
> >> >>talking gibberish.
> >> >
> >> >Gardner died. Did the members read any significance into the timing
> >> >of Davies visit? If Jack ejected Davies did that mean he have
> >> >'political' authority (Imperitor/chief/biggest guy in the room)? Did
> >> >Alistair Wallace accompany her?
> >> >
> >> Jack at this time was not with Whare Ra but was in charge of a small side
> >> into the open. It will make interesting reading if he does but I do not see
> > it
> >> happening in the immediate future.
> >>
> >> >>Greg Boag went to and ex 6-=5 form Whare ra, Percy Willinson(whom I
> > introduced
> >> >
> >> >>him to) to to get put through the 0=0 and when Percy turned up Greg had a
> >> >>charter for him to sign and Percy out him i na straight Portal.
> >> >
> >> >Is Percy Willinson an ex Imperitor? (-wondering on what authority he
> >> >signed the warrent)
> >> >
> >> >And while we are on that subject is there anywhere a list of
> >> >chiefs/Imperitors of Whare Ra?
> >> >
> >> >Roel van Leeuwen
> >
> >Fascinating account, Pat. Your claim that Ann Davies went into a
> >trance, talking gibberish, and speaking in tongues, is about as
> >interesting and believable as your fictional stories about me, posted in
> >this very forum.
> >
> Bob Gilbert on his recent New Zealand tour, spoke to the caretaker of the OTR
> who was at that meeting ( his name is Ron Raison) and furnished me with the
> information as Jack Taylor and Frank Salt did independently. Since I was not
> there I can only pass on what was told to me by those that were
Dear Pat,
Those of us who knew and associated with Ann Davies for years also know
whether or not this account makes any sense, and also we know what
weight can be assigned to the opinions of self-appointed authorities
from afar.
My best,
SAR