oops, I seem to have crossed the Abyss
Mike Estell
I'm curious to know what experience people have of momentarily
"accidentally" crossing the Abyss - that is, of suddenly experiencing an
onset of mystic awareness, or whatever you may wish to call it. We may
follow a course of study and practice designed to bring on this sort of
experience, but sometimes it just sort of happens without any effort (as
far as I know it has not ever happened to me - so far, alas, "I'm an
earthbound boy," as Julian Cope said).
Crowley in his Confessions says that Allan Bennett accidentally fell into
the trance known as Shivadarshana when he was a boy, and spent the rest of
his life trying to get back into it. Bennett's interest in magick and
mysticism BEGAN with crossing the Abyss; an auspicious start, I guess.
Any similar stories, direct or anecdotal?
Thanks for your time.
yours,
Mike
Nechesh
<<Subject: oops, I seem to have crossed the Abyss
From: Mike Estell <mes...@pantheon.yale.edu>
Date: Fri, Apr 24, 1998 4:29 PM
Message-id: <Pine.GSO.3.94.980424...@morpheus.cis.yale.edu>
Thanks for your time.
yours,
Mike>>
I think it's always that way......
It's as if you were kissed like you never were before, and you spend the rest
of your life trying to marry the one who kissed you. : )
A mystical experience seems like a dream when you return to everyday
consciousness......you think it might have been a slip into madness, but you
don't care.
Miri
The Pan of OC
Nechesh wrote:
>
> <<Subject: oops, I seem to have crossed the Abyss
> From: Mike Estell <mes...@pantheon.yale.edu>
> Date: Fri, Apr 24, 1998 4:29 PM
> Message-id: <Pine.GSO.3.94.980424...@morpheus.cis.yale.edu>
>
> I'm curious to know what experience people have of momentarily
> "accidentally" crossing the Abyss - that is, of suddenly experiencing an
> onset of mystic awareness, or whatever you may wish to call it. We may
> follow a course of study and practice designed to bring on this sort of
> experience, but sometimes it just sort of happens without any effort (as
> far as I know it has not ever happened to me - so far, alas, "I'm an
> earthbound boy," as Julian Cope said).
>
> Crowley in his Confessions says that Allan Bennett accidentally fell into
> the trance known as Shivadarshana when he was a boy, and spent the rest of
> his life trying to get back into it. Bennett's interest in magick and
> mysticism BEGAN with crossing the Abyss; an auspicious start, I guess.
>
> Any similar stories, direct or anecdotal?
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> yours,
> Mike>>
Mike,
My own experience leads me to believe that 'the abyss' and other
anologies are just ways of talking about things that language can not
express. Mystical experience, epiphany, peak experience, or what ever
you call it, is an aspect of experience that everyone has at times.
Trying to have it is counter productive as far as I can tell. So in a
way, 'accedentally' is the way it's done. Trying to recapture it
afterward, or chase it in the first place is obsessive folly in my way
of thinking.
Miri,
[you wrote]
> I think it's always that way......
> It's as if you were kissed like you never were before, and you spend the rest
> of your life trying to marry the one who kissed you. : )
[and I reply]
Free based cocaine is another good analogy, you can not reproduce the
feeling of the 'first hit,' no matter how much you put in the pipe after
that. Oh but people do try. That's how houses and families are lost.
> A mystical experience seems like a dream when you return to everyday
> consciousness......you think it might have been a slip into madness, but you
> don't care.
The only thing I'll add to this is that divine madness is a gift to be
cherished, not chased.
> Miri
> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/2113/garden.html
I want to encourage everyone to go and read the wonderful poem at the
link above.
Enjoy,
Pan
PStuart
93
Mike writes:
>Crowley in his Confessions says that Allan Bennett accidentally fell into
>the trance known as Shivadarshana when he was a boy, and spent the rest of
>his life trying to get back into it. Bennett's interest in magick and
>mysticism BEGAN with crossing the Abyss; an auspicious start, I guess.
When I was 15, I was in a bicycle accident, cruising down a muddy hill at great
speed, I went over the handlebars and hit my head on the asphalt at the bottom.
I don't remember that part, tho... what I remember is a full-blown NDE. I was
up above the scene somewhere, in a very comfortable place, calmly remarking to
someone or something that was with me that "someone down there got hurt."
The consquences of this were twofold... First I became extremely aware of just
how close to death we all are at any time. I became very conscious of how I
used my time thereafter... Second, I spent most of the rest of my life
attempting to recreate and explore that kind of experience (which I have done
many times since, without banging my head!). That was essentially my motivation
to explore magick, yoga, hypnosis, psychedelics, and all that fun stuff.
93 93/93
Phil
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil's Magick Page O'Hype -- http://members.aol.com/rbcfpstu/
Beyond Hypnosis Page O'Hype -- http://members.aol.com/rbcfpstu/beyond.htm
Tom Schuler
Mike Estell wrote in message ...
>I'm curious to know what experience people have of momentarily
>"accidentally" crossing the Abyss - that is, of suddenly experiencing an
>onset of mystic awareness, or whatever you may wish to call it.
I don't think that a sudden mystical experience is the same as crossing the
Abyss.
You can't accidentally surrender your being to the Void.
Erwin Hessle
The Pan of OC wrote in message <3540D3...@pacbell.net>...
>Tom Schuler wrote:
>>
>> Mike Estell wrote in message ...
>> >I'm curious to know what experience people have of momentarily
>> >"accidentally" crossing the Abyss - that is, of suddenly experiencing an
>> >onset of mystic awareness, or whatever you may wish to call it.
>>
>> I don't think that a sudden mystical experience is the same as crossing
the
>> Abyss.
I absolutely concur.
>> You can't accidentally surrender your being to the Void.
I disagree. I don't think it's possible to enter the Abyss deliberately. On
the contrary, despite the wording of the Oath, I would say that one doesn't
know one has been through the Abyss, until one a quite a distance past the
other side.
Erwin Hessle, 8=3
The Pan of OC
Watch your headers Mr. 3. The way this post came through it looks like
I'm part of this discussion. None of my words apprear in this post.
Thanks,
Pan
Amanda Walker
"Tom Schuler" <d...@teleport.com> writes:
> I don't think that a sudden mystical experience is the same as crossing the
> Abyss.
I would agree.
> You can't accidentally surrender your being to the Void.
Well, you can, but only once per lifetime, probably reciting a mantra
of "oh shit" or its equivalent.
Amanda Walker
Erwin Hessle
The Pan of OC wrote in message <3540E6...@pacbell.net>...
>Erwin Hessle wrote:
>>
>> The Pan of OC wrote in message <3540D3...@pacbell.net>...
>> >Tom Schuler wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Mike Estell wrote in message ...
>> >> >I'm curious to know what experience people have of momentarily
>> >> >"accidentally" crossing the Abyss - that is, of suddenly experiencing
an
>> >> >onset of mystic awareness, or whatever you may wish to call it.
>> >>
>> >> I don't think that a sudden mystical experience is the same as
crossing
>> the
>> >> Abyss.
>>
>> I absolutely concur.
>>
>> >> You can't accidentally surrender your being to the Void.
>>
>> I disagree. I don't think it's possible to enter the Abyss deliberately.
On
>> the contrary, despite the wording of the Oath, I would say that one
doesn't
>> know one has been through the Abyss, until one a quite a distance past
the
>> other side.
>>
>> Erwin Hessle, 8=3
>
>Watch your headers Mr. 3. The way this post came through it looks like
>I'm part of this discussion. None of my words apprear in this post.
I did watch the header. For reasons outside of my knowledge, our good Mr
Schuler's post did not appear on my machine, only your quoting of it.
Erwin Hessle, 8=3
The Pan of OC
Erwin Hessle wrote:
[snip]
> I did watch the header. For reasons outside of my knowledge, our good Mr
> Schuler's post did not appear on my machine, only your quoting of it.
>
> Erwin Hessle, 8=3
Yes, that happens often. It's the server you are using behaving as it
does. Since I'm your self appointed usenet guide I thought I would jump
in and say, if you are going to trim someones comments out of a post
entirely, be kind enough to trim that persons header as well.
Enjoy,
Pan
L.Deerfield
Tom Schuler <d...@teleport.com> wrote:
>
>Mike Estell wrote in message ...
>>I'm curious to know what experience people have of momentarily
>>"accidentally" crossing the Abyss - that is, of suddenly experiencing an
>>onset of mystic awareness, or whatever you may wish to call it.
>
>I don't think that a sudden mystical experience is the same as crossing the
>Abyss.
>
>
>
-Sved
Erwin Hessle
The Pan of OC wrote in message <3540F9...@pacbell.net>...
Fair one. Should the event occur in the future, I will be sure to modify the
post in this manner.
Erwin Hessle, 8=3
Tom Schuler
The Pan of OC wrote in message <3540D3...@pacbell.net>...
>Tom Schuler wrote:
>What is your way Tom? Elaborate on your symbols and how you come by them
>if you would.
I'm not sure I can answer this. I come by my symbols the way anybody does. I
encounter them or I make them up. Sometimes I do both. I don't consider them
synonymous with experiences, but appended to it as a means by which we can
remember them and compare them to each other.
My way is not the symbols I use to describe experiences. It is what I do.
I'm sure this isn't satisfactory to you. Perhaps you could phrase it in a
different fashion.
The Pan of OC
Tom Schuler wrote:
>
[snip]
> My way is not the symbols I use to describe experiences. It is what I do.
>
> I'm sure this isn't satisfactory to you. Perhaps you could phrase it in a
> different fashion.
First, thanks for the response so far, I appreciate it. Frame my inquiry
is in the *idea* of crossing the abyss. To me 'crossing the abyss' is a
symbolic way of describing something that language can't accurately
express. I personally reject the idea of 'the abyss' denoting any aspect
of objective reality.
And now the question:
What do you do Tom?
By way of potential follow up, I may have further inquiries about your
personal symbolism.
Thanks,
Pan
p.s. I apologize if I'm asking you to re-hash something you been over a
bunch of times before on alt.magick. If you have I've missed it, but I
am just now very interested.
Rabbi441
<<I'm curious to know what experience people have of momentarily
"accidentally" crossing the Abyss - that is, of suddenly experiencing an
follow a course of study and practice designed to bring on this sort of
experience, but sometimes it just sort of happens without any effort (as
far as I know it has not ever happened to me - so far, alas, "I'm an
earthbound boy," as Julian Cope said).
Crowley in his Confessions says that Allan Bennett accidentally fell into
the trance known as Shivadarshana when he was a boy, and spent the rest of
his life trying to get back into it. Bennett's interest in magick and
mysticism BEGAN with crossing the Abyss; an auspicious start, I guess.
Any similar stories, direct or anecdotal?
Thanks for your time.
yours,
Mike>>
Mike, what was your experience? If you feel comfortable relating it.
Most people wouldn't desire a plunge into the abyss, since any experience that
strips away everything you thought of as your personal self feels too much like
death.
People who go through the fear and actually cross the abyss are few.
aikeena
Erwin Hessle wrote:
> I disagree. I don't think it's possible to enter the Abyss deliberately. On
> the contrary, despite the wording of the Oath, I would say that one doesn't
> know one has been through the Abyss, until one a quite a distance past the
> other side.
>
> Erwin Hessle, 8=3
I thought about saying something else. I just decided for honesty
instead.
No.
aikeena
joshua geller
talking about the abyss.
remarkable.
best,
josh
___
aikeena
The Pan of OC wrote:
> To me 'crossing the abyss' is a symbolic way of describing something that language
> can't accurately express. I personally reject the idea of 'the abyss' denoting any > aspect of objective reality.
That would depend upon your defintion of 'objective'.
If you mean physically touch then I should point out that the idea that
abyss cannot be directly touched is redundant.
aikeena
aikeena
The Pan of OC wrote:
> To me 'crossing the abyss' is a symbolic way of describing something that language
> can't accurately express. I personally reject the idea of 'the abyss' denoting any > aspect of objective reality.
That would depend upon your defintion of 'objective'.
If you mean physically touch then I should point out that the abyss
The Amazing Renfield
joshua geller wrote:
>
> talking about the abyss.
>
> remarkable.
>
The best analogy I can make is like its being unplugged.
I find it strange that the first thing the mind does when coming back
is take inventory of who you are, where you are, and how long it was
out.
I imagine crossing it would free one from these things.
-Renfield
The Amazing Renfield
The Pan of OC wrote:
> To me 'crossing the abyss' is a
> symbolic way of describing something that language can't accurately
> express. I personally reject the idea of 'the abyss' denoting any aspect
> of objective reality.
:(
-Renfield
The Amazing Renfield
Rabbi441 wrote:
>
> <<I'm curious to know what experience people have of momentarily
> "accidentally" crossing the Abyss - that is, of suddenly experiencing an
> onset of mystic awareness, or whatever you may wish to call it. We may
> follow a course of study and practice designed to bring on this sort of
> experience, but sometimes it just sort of happens without any effort (as
> far as I know it has not ever happened to me - so far, alas, "I'm an
> earthbound boy," as Julian Cope said).
>
What do you mean by 'mystic awareness'?
Do you follow a course of study to bring about this state?
Are you really a rabbi? I ask because I haven't met or talked to
one knowingly.
> Mike, what was your experience? If you feel comfortable relating it.
>
> Most people wouldn't desire a plunge into the abyss, since any experience that
> strips away everything you thought of as your personal self feels too much like
> death.
> People who go through the fear and actually cross the abyss are few.
These people are crazy.
-Renfield
Mike Estell
> Tom Schuler <d...@teleport.com> wrote:
> >
> >I don't think that a sudden mystical experience is the same as crossing the
> >Abyss.
As you can see from the quote, my server hasn't given me your post yet,
and I'm responding to a piece of it that someone else quoted in a post
that I did see. Anyway...
It's clear that I don't really understand what is meant by "crossing the
Abyss." (I suppose it's impossible to conceive of it unless one has
experienced it.) I thought that it was to transcend ego-consciousness.
Most mystical experiences (of the sort described by William James in the
chapter on mysticism in "Varieties...") seem to involve just this.
Would you say that "crossing the Abyss" is a lasting thing, and that once
you've done it, you've done it, whereas in the case of a garden-variety
mystical experience, you can go out by the same door you went in, and end
up more or less unchanged?
(I here append the hideously disingenuous disclaimer, "I know that the
less one says of such things the better, but nevertheless...")
yours,
Mike
LudvigPrin
The experience titled "Crossing the Abyss" is an initiation. The actual
consciousness of the magician is often "back down here", especially in dealing
with day=to-day business. Each initiation places another rung on the magician's
ladder, so that when he chooses, he may climb higher, always returning below.
This is described in Liber Os and Liber B when "a Star is shot forth into the
Heavens". It also is an arcanum that only a Magus can witness the birth of a
Magus.
Oh, blah blah blah.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
% There is no grace
% There is no guilt
% There is no God but Man.
%
% Ludvig Prinn
% Ludvi...@aol.com
%
% Emailed replies may be posted
richard sprigg
Mike Estell wrote:
>
> Crowley in his Confessions says that Allan Bennett accidentally fell into
> the trance known as Shivadarshana when he was a boy,
Hardly "accidentally". He was attempting to conjure the devil.
and spent the rest of
> his life trying to get back into it. Bennett's interest in magick and
> mysticism BEGAN with crossing the Abyss;
I disagree. He had a sudden mystical experience, as have many. you
return, and carry on, as did Bennett.
As I understand the process, when you enter the abyss, "you" do not
return.
richard sprigg
Amanda Walker wrote:
>
> "Tom Schuler" <d...@teleport.com> writes:
> > I don't think that a sudden mystical experience is the same as crossing the
> > Abyss.
>
>
> > You can't accidentally surrender your being to the Void.
>
> of "oh shit" or its equivalent.
Them tangential tantrums again?
Richard
Amanda Walker
richard sprigg <kt...@sympatico.ca> writes:
> Them tangential tantrums again?
I was thinking more along the lines of slamming into a bridge abutment
or something similar.
Amanda Walker
richard sprigg
Might be easier.
peter li'ir key
Tom Schuler <d...@teleport.com> wrote:
>I don't think that a sudden mystical experience is the same as crossing the
>Abyss.
rotfl!
>You can't accidentally surrender your being to the Void.
can you do it deliberately?
* * *
you think too much.
peter li'ir key
k...@springhaven.org
Jon Browne
In article <35416C...@cisco.com>, The Amazing Renfield
<r...@cisco.com> writes
>I find it strange that the first thing the mind does when coming back
>is take inventory of who you are, where you are, and how long it was
>out.
>
>I imagine crossing it would free one from these things.
>
> -Renfield
This is what has confused me.
If I had "crossed" why was I back?
Or was I cast out?
It is only in the last couple of months I have seen experiences similar
to my own described as "crossing".
These experiences were 12 and 6 years ago.
It would never have occured to me that equate "that" with "that".
I still don't _know_ that "that" is what I have done.
However, I have (not) been somewhere else.
--
Jon
The Pan of OC
>
> If you mean physically touch then I should point out that the abyss
> cannot be directly touched is redundant.
>
> aikeena
I don't equate 'physical' with objective.
Pan
The Pan of OC
joshua geller wrote:
>
> talking about the abyss.
>
> remarkable.
>
>
> josh
>
Well actually about Tom.
Pan
John
Tom Schuler wrote:
> Mike Estell wrote in message ...
> >I'm curious to know what experience people have of momentarily
> >"accidentally" crossing the Abyss - that is, of suddenly experiencing an
> >onset of mystic awareness, or whatever you may wish to call it.
>
> I don't think that a sudden mystical experience is the same as crossing the
> Abyss.
>
> You can't accidentally surrender your being to the Void.
No you can't, but in special cases you can be pushed.
John...
John
LudvigPrin wrote:
> The experience titled "Crossing the Abyss" is an initiation. The actual
> consciousness of the magician is often "back down here", especially in dealing
> with day=to-day business. Each initiation places another rung on the magician's
> ladder, so that when he chooses, he may climb higher, always returning below.
> This is described in Liber Os and Liber B when "a Star is shot forth into the
> Heavens". It also is an arcanum that only a Magus can witness the birth of a
> Magus.
>
> Oh, blah blah blah.
Oh come on now, I mean their just talking about the abcense of anything, that
somehow is being summed up in words of something, even though nothing really
describes nothing, but everything is about as close as you get to nothing, but also
its about as far away as anything can be from nothing, for nothing has got be
something, right?
Oh shit!
I just accidentally crossed "it" too. As if the first three intentional times
weren't enough.
John...
John
joshua geller wrote:
> talking about the abyss.
>
> remarkable.
>
> best,
>
> josh
>
It is pretty amazing, considering what the aybss is.
John...
PStuart
93
The Pan of OC writes:
>First, thanks for the response so far, I appreciate it. Frame my inquiry
>is in the *idea* of crossing the abyss. To me 'crossing the abyss' is a
>symbolic way of describing something that language can't accurately
>express. I personally reject the idea of 'the abyss' denoting any aspect
>of objective reality.
IMO, there are abysses and abysses. The "abyss" is a metaphor to describe a
process of coming closer to consciousness of "ultimate reality," awareness
without the usual filter of mind, pure experience. There are smaller trees of
life within each sephiroth, and abysses to cross in every action or mode or
being. "THE Abyss," like "True Will," or total mystical awareness is always one
(or more) step beyond us, no matter what you do... you never reach the end of
infinity.
The map is not the territory.
A spontaneous mystical experience could certainly be considered the crossing of
AN abyss, IMO.
93 93/93
Phil
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil's Magick Page O'Hype -- http://members.aol.com/rbcfpstu/
Beyond Hypnosis Page O'Hype -- http://members.aol.com/rbcfpstu/beyond.htm
PStuart
93
aikeena writes:
>The Pan of OC wrote:
>
>> To me 'crossing the abyss' is a symbolic way of describing something that
>language
>> can't accurately express. I personally reject the idea of 'the abyss'
>denoting any > aspect of objective reality.
>
>That would depend upon your defintion of 'objective'.
>
>If you mean physically touch then I should point out that the abyss
>cannot be directly touched is redundant.
IMO, the Abyss, qabalistically speaking, represents the gap between the subject
and objective itself. Or, rather, that is one way of approaching it.
PStuart
93
richard sprigg writes:
>As I understand the process, when you enter the abyss, "you" do not
>return.
Strictly speaking, when you do ANYTHING, "you" do not return. Consciousness
changes all the time... every impression you take in changes "you." The more
intense the experience, the more of your consciousness changes. Again, abysses
within abysses...
Amanda Walker
Mike Estell <mes...@pantheon.yale.edu> writes:
> It's clear that I don't really understand what is meant by "crossing the
> Abyss."
What is meant probably depends a lot on who is speaking.
Many of the things people have been saying may be quite valid, but
I would not use the phrase "crossing the Abyss" to refer to what they
describe. I generally don't find it fruitful to discuss the Abyss,
though I have given it a try on occasion (and have noted at the time
that doing so is more misleading than not).
> I thought that it was to transcend ego-consciousness.
Transcending the ego is a developmental stage, just like transcending
the Terrible Twos. It is certainly worth discussing. Tom discusses
it a lot, for example.
> whereas in the case of a garden-variety
> mystical experience, you can go out by the same door you went in, and end
> up more or less unchanged?
Gardens a very pleasant places for mystical experiences. Japanese gardens
especially. If you are left unchanged, was it a mystical experience?
Can you be left unchanged by anything?
> (I here append the hideously disingenuous disclaimer, "I know that the
> less one says of such things the better, but nevertheless...")
But nevertheless what?
Amanda Walker
Amanda Walker
A most excellent observation. Quite correct.
Amanda Walker
L.Deerfield
>
>The map is not the territory.
>
>A spontaneous mystical experience could certainly be considered the crossing of
>AN abyss, IMO.
Mapping is a useful metaphor in itself. Not following maps,
but making and changing them.
And perhaps part of the problem here is distinguishing between
"spontaneous" and "accidental." St. John of the Cross--accidental or
spontaneuos entrance to the Dark Night?
-Sved
MarketIce
pst...@aol.com (PStuart), wrote in article:
<199804251442...@ladder03.news.aol.com>:
>IMO, there are abysses and abysses. The "abyss" is a metaphor >to describe a
>process of coming closer to consciousness of "ultimate reality," >awareness
>without the usual filter of mind, pure experience.
Yet reaching that point is not always on purpose, nor the goal at the time of
the experience. Yet to look back upon it, sometimes the filter of the mind
seems so distracting, but why not just live your life as it is? Even if your
mind is filtering, you can trandscend the abstraction of the concept and simply
live.
>There are smaller trees of
>life within each sephiroth, and abysses to cross in every action or >mode or
>being. "THE Abyss," like "True Will," or total mystical awareness >is always
one
>(or more) step beyond us, no matter what you do...
Therefore, finding and following your true will is enough to master for your
own lifetime.
> you never reach the end of
>infinity.
>
>The map is not the territory.
>
>A spontaneous mystical experience could certainly be >considered the crossing
>of
>AN abyss, IMO.
>
>93 93/93
>Phil
>------Market Ice-------<
http://members.aol.com/meltdarok
This site is now another gateway to the web
"Find it, assemble it, sell it, buy it;
after that then--
salvage what you can."
Tom Schuler
In article <354119...@pacbell.net>, oh...@pacbell.net wrote:
>
>What do you do Tom?
All sorts of things. Sometimes I do very little. It depends on what is going
on at the time.
I don't have a religion and the rythyms I follow are the ones I feel rather
than those I have learned about. What I do is try to pay attention and act
when the time feels right. I try to describe experiences I've had in ways
other people can understand them. I have no idea whether this actually works
much, but I think it should, if it's done right. I like to match the
experiences I have had with the records of other people who have experienced
something that seems similar.
I know a lot of words and other symbols and I like putting them together in
unexpected ways. Sometimes they describe what I am feeling, sometimes they
induce feelings I haven't been aware of before. Many times they do neither,
but I'm stubborn and keep at it.
I occasionally visit the celebrations and ordeals of various belief systems
and try to get some hints as to what they are feeling when they attain
spiritual experiences. I try to see the underlying patterns that exist in the
world and in my mind and the minds of others.
I do a lot of checking on my perceptions. I try not to believe things.
richard sprigg
Pontius Pilot wrote:
>
> richard sprigg wrote
> >As I understand the process, when you enter the abyss,
> >"you" do not return.
>
> 1) do not return ALONE,
> 2) and if so, it is for a particular reason.
This may be valid for you.
Not dwelling in Binah, my understanding is not initiated.
It seems to me that all that is the postulant is destroyed. That which
ascends the far shore is not he.
>
> Anyone who claims to have crossed the abyss will have a clear
> and definite understanding of who and WHAT the host, dweller
> and guest really are. Any fear that remains of your own demise,
> fate, or purpose in life after the experience means that you
> didn't quite get it...
Anyone who has crossed would understand not.
Richard
richard sprigg
PStuart wrote:
>
> 93
>
> richard sprigg writes:
>
> >As I understand the process, when you enter the abyss, "you" do not
> >return.
>
> changes all the time... every impression you take in changes "you." The more
> intense the experience, the more of your consciousness changes. Again, abysses
> within abysses...
Accepted.
Richard
richard sprigg
Tom Schuler wrote:
>
>
> I occasionally visit the celebrations and ordeals of various belief systems
> and try to get some hints as to what they are feeling when they attain
> spiritual experiences. I try to see the underlying patterns that exist in the
> world and in my mind and the minds of others.
>
> I do a lot of checking on my perceptions. I try not to believe things.
Fascinating. I try and find meaning in the everyday, also.
remember the old maxim "Trust no one"?
had fun with that for months with meaning upon meaning.
John
MarketIce wrote:
> Therefore, finding and following your true will is enough to master for your
> own lifetime.
And so finally a little wisdom appears.
John...
David R. Jones
>These people are crazy.
>
> -Renfield
Yes we are, but at least we're not institutionalized
The Pan of OC
Tom Schuler wrote:
>
> In article <354119...@pacbell.net>, oh...@pacbell.net wrote:
> >
> >What do you do Tom?
>
Thank you Tom.
Pan
sy.
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:51:27 -0700, The Pan of OC <oh...@pacbell.net>
wrote:
>
>> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/2113/garden.html
>
>I want to encourage everyone to go and read the wonderful poem at the
>link above.
Pan,
have you read any of Nick Herbert's poetry?
you may enjoy it.
http://www.cruzio.com/~zerocity/v1n3/16.htm
sy.
albert
neverTom Schuler wrote:
>
> In article <354119...@pacbell.net>, oh...@pacbell.net wrote:
> >
> >What do you do Tom?
>
> on at the time.
>
> I don't have a religion and the rythyms I follow are the ones I feel rather
> than those I have learned about. What I do is try to pay attention and act
> when the time feels right. I try to describe experiences I've had in ways
> other people can understand them. I have no idea whether this actually works
> much, but I think it should, if it's done right. I like to match the
> experiences I have had with the records of other people who have experienced
> something that seems similar.
>
> I know a lot of words and other symbols and I like putting them together in
> unexpected ways. Sometimes they describe what I am feeling, sometimes they
> induce feelings I haven't been aware of before. Many times they do neither,
> but I'm stubborn and keep at it.
>
> and try to get some hints as to what they are feeling when they attain
> spiritual experiences. I try to see the underlying patterns that exist in the
> world and in my mind and the minds of others.
>
> I do a lot of checking on my perceptions. I try not to believe things.
nonsense
The Amazing Renfield
Thank goodness. I am afraid of those places.
-Renfield