Widdershins -- Deosil ??
Bruce Parlier
Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
I was looking over the ritual work I'm doing now and rituals I had been
doing in the past and I noticed I had a bit of a conflict in my technical
understanding of the direction in which you move around the circle. The
Golden Dawn style Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram has you moving
deosil, in what I understand to be an invoking direction, while Liber XXV
(The Star Ruby) has you moving widdershins (a banishing direction). I have
read that one should always move widdershins when banishing, but the old GD
pentagram ritual suddenly made sense, perhaps you are invoking the
banishing aspect of divinity here. Liber XXXVI, which to me appears to be
a hexagram banishing ritual also has one moving deosil, as in invoking,
like the GD Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. I've currently
reconciled these ideas by thinking of the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the
Penagram as invoking a banishing force, but I'm curious as to what some
other practitioners opinions are on this issue. ( This has come to my
attention because I wanted to perform the old LBRP with it's traditional
symbolism because this is how I started, and it has great meaning for me)
Fr. C.Q.A.
Love is the Law, Love under Will
WhtMagick
Deare Bruce,
Although I'm not a OGD type ( I was co-founder of the OTA), I generally
only walk Deosil in my Temple, no mater what I'm doing.
Regards,
WhtMagick
Ich Folge Nemandem
WhtM...@AOL.com P.O. Box 21172, El Sobrante, CA 94820
Web Page: http://members.aol.com/WhtMagick/index.html
Trevor Garrick
In article <19970821233...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, whtm...@aol.com
says...
>Deare Bruce,
>Although I'm not a OGD type ( I was co-founder of the OTA), I generally
>only walk Deosil in my Temple, no mater what I'm doing.
dangerous not to banish what has been invoked and the banishing of nothing is
futile and a waste of the divine name.
So basically: 1. I know nothing about the GD when that is what Bruce asked
about.
2. I am great and I know it.
Don't ruffle your feathers just to impress others. Great people know their
great, everyone around them knows their great and they don't have to say it or
reaffirm it. I hope I was able to help.
Trevor Garrick
garr...@cadvision.com
Bruce Parlier
Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
Trevor Garrick <garr...@cadvision.com> wrote in article
<5tiv9g$2u...@elmo.cadvision.com>...
> I thought that invoking and banishing were a part of every day life. It
is
> dangerous not to banish what has been invoked and the banishing of
nothing is
> futile and a waste of the divine name.
I perform the banishings to put myself in the proper state of mind for the
rest of my ritual work, like the Middle Pillar Ritual and Astral
Projection/Pathworking. I'm banishing all the negativity I've picked up
through the day. I certainly don't think its a waste of the "divine
names". Interesting opinion though.
> So basically: 1. I know nothing about the GD when that is what Bruce
asked
> about.
I'm not affiliated with any GD group, their rituals were simply my first
exposure to "western" ritual magick. I just wanted some opinions on this
issue, some different viewpoints to enhance my own. In my mind the
technical aspects of the ritual work must only have meaning to the person
performing it, but I'm always interested in learning more, being exposed to
more, etc ... To cease to change is to become stagnent and eventually die.
I'm actually just now returning to performing some slightly modified GD
rituals for my daily work, I have been practicing variations of these
rituals involving only Thelemic symbolism ( and I'll still practice these
when wanting that particular current, I just thought I was overdosing on
the cosmology of Liber Al, and wanted to put a twist in my ritual work by
returning to the traditional Quaballistic associations at times). It was in
comparing R.Orpheus's Nu-Sphere, Liber XXV and the traditional Lesser
Banishing Ritual of the pentagram that these issues came to my mind. I'm
practicing the traditional LBRP now with the re-arrangement of the temple
(Earth in the North, Air in the East) and moving deosil -- and getting
quite powerfull results. It's "right" because it feels "right" to me. I
just wanted to find out what was "right" for some other people.
> 2. I am great and I know it.
>
> Don't ruffle your feathers just to impress others. Great people know
their
> great, everyone around them knows their great and they don't have to say
it or
> reaffirm it. I hope I was able to help.
Uh, I hope I didn't come across as trying to appear "great" or "small".
Maybey that was a reply to WhtMagick, who also had an interesting opinion.
I don't want to go to war over this issue or appear to be claiming one
technique is "right", and I'm not looking for guidence because I think I'm
"wrong". Just curious as to what some other peaple thought about this
issue.
Fr. C.Q.A
Trevor Garrick
In article <5tlnsh$eue$2...@nadine.teleport.com>, d...@teleport.com says...
>Where do wasted divine names go? Is there some sort of numinous landfill?
Yeah, it's called the remains of my sanity.
>Could they be recycled?
Lost it.... actually never had it.
>If you banish nothing, do you get everything instead?
Anyone can open up a door. Whether or not they get the company they want is a
different story altogether.
Trevor Garrick
garr...@cadvision.com
gates
In article <01bcad65$2115a4e0$1301...@batcave.ecrsoft>, Bruce Parlier
<bpar...@ecrsoft.com> writes
>Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
>
>doing in the past and I noticed I had a bit of a conflict in my technical
>understanding of the direction in which you move around the circle.
Oh.. welcome then to the learning curve! <S>
> The
>Golden Dawn style Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram has you moving
>deosil, in what I understand to be an invoking direction,
Unless you are Austrilian In which case.. like water down a plughole you
work the opposite way to the US/UK
> while Liber XXV
>(The Star Ruby) has you moving widdershins (a banishing direction). I have
>read that one should always move widdershins when banishing,
Not true.. depends on what sort of magic you are performing and at what
time.
>but the old GD
>pentagram ritual suddenly made sense, perhaps you are invoking the
>banishing aspect of divinity here. Liber XXXVI, which to me appears to be
>a hexagram banishing ritual also has one moving deosil, as in invoking,
>like the GD Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. I've currently
>reconciled these ideas by thinking of the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the
>Penagram as invoking a banishing force, but I'm curious as to what some
>other practitioners opinions are on this issue. ( This has come to my
>attention because I wanted to perform the old LBRP with it's traditional
>symbolism because this is how I started, and it has great meaning for me)
See above.. There are different schools of thought and different
reasons for doing things according to momentum, time, reason etc.
One thing you can trust, is that these are guides along a pathway.. If
someone has found them successful them they are teaching you their way
that THEY found works. Trust them, work it, then find your own way.
They don't tell you someting just for the fun of it. Usually these
groups are pretty acurate in their findings.
Beth N.o.t. Fr. At All!
>
>Fr. C.Q.A.
>
>Love is the Law, Love under Will
>
>
(beth or les or fludd or keeper) @gates.demon.co.uk
Beth Thompson
BM: Gates of Annwn
London WC1N 3XX, U.K. Pagan Contact Magazine
44+(0)1708 670431 (answerphone may operate)
(Ring and speak first to send fax if wished.)
Bruce Parlier
Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
Hail Eris !
gates <ga...@gates.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<NGCwwGA4...@gates.demon.co.uk>...
> In article <01bcad65$2115a4e0$1301...@batcave.ecrsoft>, Bruce Parlier
> <bpar...@ecrsoft.com> writes
> >Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
> >
> > while Liber XXV
> >(The Star Ruby) has you moving widdershins (a banishing direction). I
have
> >read that one should always move widdershins when banishing,
>
> Not true.. depends on what sort of magic you are performing and at what
> time.
Not True ? I don't really hold to the idea that some things are true and
some are false. All things are true and false depending on your
perspective. That's what I was looking for was other peoples perspectives.
The author I spoke of makes it very clear that he (Rodney Orpheus)
believes strongly that one should move widdershins when banishing. It's
definately true of his reality. I have come to a conclusion myself though,
with input from others on this group, that's different, but one opinion
doesn't invalidate the other. What I do needs to be consistant and
meaningful only to myself, but is it bad to bat the idea around a bit ?
There is no truth, only data to be manipulated -- from "The Garden of
Allah".
>
> One thing you can trust, is that these are guides along a pathway.. If
> someone has found them successful them they are teaching you their way
> that THEY found works. Trust them, work it, then find your own way.
> They don't tell you someting just for the fun of it. Usually these
> groups are pretty acurate in their findings.
>
I agree with this statement, the wisdom of others is very valuable ( even
if it is contradictory, I think that is a function of being human, we are
all stars in our own orbits ).
> Beth N.o.t. Fr. At All!
Did my signature bother you or is there some hidden meaning here ?
> >Fr. C.Q.A.
Credo Quia Absurdum -- a phrase that applies to me strongly, I do like to
play with the way I sign these postings, its got alot to do with my mood
..
> >
> >Love is the Law, Love under Will
> >
>
> (beth or les or fludd or keeper) @gates.demon.co.uk
>
> Beth Thompson
> BM: Gates of Annwn
> London WC1N 3XX, U.K. Pagan Contact Magazine
> 44+(0)1708 670431 (answerphone may operate)
> (Ring and speak first to send fax if wished.)
>
>
All Hail Discordia !