Ethics
Robert Scott Martin
Magician's Apprentice <DSCWeb...@attbi.com> wrote:
>A well known Magician proclaimed we should develop our subconscious mind and
>temper it with extremely high moral ethics and we would achieve our goal of
>attaining all that is worthwhile: health, wealth and power.
So few people actually read Carl Jung these days.
Gay Jesus
nagasiva
Magician's Apprentice <DSCWeb...@attbi.com>:
# Recommending that ethics should be removed from Magic
few do this.
# can have serious consequences to both the propagator
not sure about that one.
# and those who accept and practice Magic without high ethics
# as a result of the suggestion.
that depends on how visible the practice is and what, precisely,
is being done and how it compares with the "high ethics" to
which you are referring. in the case of high visibility and
fractious dissonance with others in one's vicinity, it can
have very obvious and negative consequences indeed.
# Ethics and morality were requisites in the Ancient Magic
# Schools.
to which schools are you referring?
# Until a student purified his thinking he was not given
# the mysteries of Magic. This was not only a requirement
# of the Magi Schools
strange name. "Magi Schools" suggests a Persian academy.
# but was and still is a requirement of Celestial Law
interesting. who set up the Law? how was it discerned that
such a Law exists and obtains?
# if one is to have satisfactory results in the Art of Magic.
your contention is that the Art is regulated by some cosmic
authority? which one(s)?
# A well known Magician proclaimed we should develop our
# subconscious mind and temper it with extremely high moral
# ethics
of what do these ethics consist? how high are they, exactly?
i.e. do they include a complete avoidance of Harm as suggested
by the Wiccan Rede? do they require accord with the dictates
of a cosmic God like in Christianity or Islam? is the height
just a matter of some Golden Rule which might be bent toward
peculiar ends when one is a masochist or anarchist?
# and we would achieve our goal of attaining all that is
# worthwhile: health, wealth and power.
does mystical ascension not factor into these goals somehow?
thanks for your attention to these matters in a new thread. :>
nagasiva
Robert Scott Martin
>>>temper it with extremely high moral ethics and we would achieve our goal of
>>>attaining all that is worthwhile: health, wealth and power.
In article <vM62c.39712$n17.30835@clgrps13>,
Gay Jesus <GAYJESUS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>So few people actually read Carl Jung these days.
>
>Nothing wrong with that!
Exactly. You can imagine my surprise to find him referenced here, but
I suppose this is where people go to talk about books nobody reads.
Gay Jesus
says...
>
>
># Until a student purified his thinking he was not given
># the mysteries of Magic. This was not only a requirement
># of the Magi Schools
>
>strange name. "Magi Schools" suggests a Persian academy.
>
it suggests ancient history.. the three wise men aren't roaming around with
their frankenscence and myrrh anymore... take it from me, Gay Jesus!
># and we would achieve our goal of attaining all that is
># worthwhile: health, wealth and power.
>
>does mystical ascension not factor into these goals somehow?
>thanks for your attention to these matters in a new thread. :>
>
Science writer Matt Ridley says: " I believe that...human beings are and
always have been driven by three cardinal ambitions - for wealth, for
reputation and for status - and that you ignore such facts at your peril."
The use of mysticism would factor into those ambitions. Mysticism always sets
its self up as a social heirarchy. Even the lowest classes have always had
their secret rituals; gnosis - to allow them to envision themselves on an
equal or even superior spiritual level than the superstitions
expoused by the established social heirarchy. This was siddartha's legacy,
the spiritual rebel who convinces himself that the social shortcut he's
looking for is actually a divine path.
Magician's Apprentice
Thank you for your very interesting questions. I will try to be brief.
All actions have a reaction.
Someone created alt.magick.ethics so that we would not have to discuss it here
(alt.magick).
Everything is visible to those who can see.
All ancient magi(c) schools that have taught to seek the Light, the Spiritual
Fire within, may be included. You may include the Persians.
I give up! Who set up the Law? We are, however, able to formulate and use Law -
both material and spiritual laws.
Spiritual discernment comes from within when we start to think outside the body.
An oxymoron?
Magical Art - just as visual art - is the creation of Man. Once magic is created
the results follow Cosmic Law. Experienced Magicians have confidence in the Law
or they would not consciously practice (create) magic.
Do not that which will cause loss or harm to oneself or another. We do not
always have a perfect choice, though, and must choose the lesser of the evils.
Mystical ascension is our reason for being.
Best wishes.
Magician's Apprentice
catherine yronwode
> Someone created alt.magick.ethics so that we would not have to discuss
> it here (alt.magick).
As a long-time participant, i am not sure that this is precisely
the case. As i recall, alt.magick.ethics was created at a time
when there were lots of squabbles going on in alt.magick about
what forms of magic(k) were ethical and what were not. In
particular, there were (and still are) contentious factions who
cannot agree on whether performing love magic is so coercive as
to be unethical or whether it is simply a magical adjunct to
normal physical flirtation and hence ethically neutral.
I don't think the folks who newgrouped alt.magick.ethics were so
much trying to forbid or forfend the discussion of ethics in
alt.magick as they were hoping that by providing a secondary
venue for the discussion of the ethics of magic(k), they could
keep the focal spotlight in alt.magick on magic(k) rather than on
the ethics of magic(k).
Cordially,
cat yronwode
Karezza and Sacred Sex ----- http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredsex.html
Magician's Apprentice
Thank you for the concise clarification.
Yes. That is exactly what I was referring to. However by separating ethical
topics from magic we would loose a lot of valuable food for thought. Ethics
would certainly be of more value here in alt.magick than some of the postings I
have seen.
Best wishes.
Magician's Apprentice
catherine yronwode
>
> Catherine,
>
> Thank you for the concise clarification.
>
> Yes. That is exactly what I was referring to. However by
> separating ethical topics from magic we would loose a lot of
> valuable food for thought. Ethics would certainly be of more value
> here in alt.magick than some of the postings I have seen.
That's probably true. :-)
The only trouble i see with discussions of the ethics of magic
here is that most folks' minds are made up already.
And it is not just on the subject of ethics that we see a great
deal of close-mindedness:
Those who think that using a honey jar spell to sweeten your boss
to give you a raise is "low magic" or, worse, "coercive and
unethical magic" are not going to be swayed by arguments based on
the rational history of magic and a lengthy essay in the role
such sweetening spells have had in magical practices since the
days of ancient Egypt.
Likewise, folks who want to use this venue to discuss variant
stanzas in the writings of Aleister Crowley on the subject of
Tarot are not always 0ngoing to be interested in the theories of
people who tell them that the real aim and purpose of magic is to
evolve to a point where tools such as tarot cards are not needed
because one is in direct contact with God.
Alt.magick is a time-share newsgroup, a major gathering place for
a very small community of highly disputatious people following
dozens of widely divergent paths. Generally speaking, the
reincarnationalist "God-ians" control the most space, but still,
this is nt alt.magick.mysticism, and so the time-share continues,
uneasily or sweetly, depending on the players and their moods.
"Tolerance" is a word i would like to see here more often than i
do.
Cordially,
cat yronwode
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice - http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html
Magician's Apprentice
Yes! I concur. An open mind regulated with reasoning and wisdom and being able
to adapt, as needed, are great assets.
As you say, tools can be good learning aids, but unfortunately many stop there
and fail to move onto higher realms when use of the tool has been mastered.
Best wishes.
Magician's Apprentice
Joseph Bearwalker Wilson
<DSCWeb...@attbi.com> wrote:
>Catherine,
>
>Yes! I concur. An open mind regulated with reasoning and wisdom and being able
>to adapt, as needed, are great assets.
>
>As you say, tools can be good learning aids, but unfortunately many stop there
>and fail to move onto higher realms when use of the tool has been mastered.
Unfortunately? Frankly I figure folks learn what's of interest to
them, and don't impose my own standards of "higher" or "lower" on
them. I do reserve the right to do that when I become All Wise
though.
-
Live in harmony,
Joseph Bearwalker Wilson
http://www.toteg.com
'Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.' Matsuo Basho (1644-1694)
catherine yronwode
> Catherine,
>
> Yes! I concur. An open mind regulated with reasoning and wisdom
> and being able to adapt, as needed, are great assets.
>
> As you say, tools can be good learning aids, but unfortunately
> many stop there and fail to move onto higher realms when use of
> the tool has been mastered.
I did not say that tools can be good learning aids. I don't
believe that. I am actually on the OTHER side of that debate. :-)
I employ tool-centered magic by preference. The use of berbs,
roots, minerals, amulets, candles, oils, incense, and other
implements is essential to the form of magic i practice.
Cordially,
cat yronwode
silver_skar
godians? reincarnationalist?
is there a faq/ already existant clearinghouse to enlighten me here?
> the most space, but still,
> this is nt alt.magick.mysticism, and so the time-share continues,
> uneasily or sweetly, depending on the players and their moods.
>
> "Tolerance" is a word i would like to see here more often than i
> do.
tolerance.
there, are you happy now? :)
>
> Cordially,
>
> cat yronwode
>
> Hoodoo in Theory and Practice - http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html
silver_skar