Uri Geller sprouting seeds in his hand not a trick
John Benneth
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for confronting
Mr. Randi with my letter. I'd like to make a note in this matter
to you that Mr. Randi and I have had extensive correspondence,
and he is a recipient on my mailing list. So he has already
recieved the letter in question, just as he regularly receives a
copy of everything I write about him..
I have presented the charges repeatedly to Mr. Randi. I was
the one who brought forth the taped confession, by Mr. Randi, of
his involvement in the death of a 14 year old boy in Queens that
he was instructing in the art of escape. I have laid the charge
of murder at his feet, and while his supporters scream at him to
sue me for libel, even offering him pro bono serivces, he has
refused. His bookings have dropped off to zero and his
foundation is floundering as the rats now flee from the ship.
And this is only the beginning of the investigation. Wait
until I start asking some real questions to people that can
answer them . . . I suspect that the file I currently have on
James Randi and company is merely the tip of the iceberg.
All the evidence I have is open for inspection and I
welcome your support in determining the truth of the matter. In
that he has refused any further correspondence with me until I
forward him a notarized statement from a clinical psychologist,
I certainly look forward to hearing what Mr. Randi's response is
this time. Perhaps you could ask him the name of the boy who
died in Queens. Or ask him who John Hitchcock is. If his memory
is foggy, ask him how it is that his taped solicitations of sex
with teenage boys came into the possession of others.
John Benneth
Jack Sarfatti wrote:
> Dear James
>
> This message I am simply forwarding fyi makes serious
> allegations against
> you. Please respond to them. For the record, I am NOT
> endorsing the
> clearly libelous information (if it is not true) in this
> message authored
> by John Benneth that I am forwarding. I know nothing about
> it's
> authenticity. I never heard of John Benneth before. I just got
> this
> unexpectedly in my e-mail. So don't shoot the messenger. I am
> not an
> advocate of homeopathy. I am making a truly Skeptical Inquiry!
> :-)
>
> John Benneth <gi...@cyberhighway.net> wrote:
>
> > Dear Winston,
> >
> > I want to congratulate you on doing some wonderful work here
> in
> > giving us the other side of the story. I have heard so much
> > negativity over the past year from people who claim to be
> > skeptics, from outright denials to some pretty egregious
> libels.
> >
> > Uri Geller, more than anyone else, seems to invoke this
> > fire. And I must say, the magician's fraternity had me
> convinced
> > that Uri was a hoaxer. There were even those who were saying
>
> > that he wasn't even a good magician.
>
> > So after James Randi, the biggest mouth of them all, got
> fed
> > his homeopathic shut up medicine, Uri suddenly reappeared on
> the
> > scene . . at least in my consciousness he appeared on the
> scene
> > after what must have been a ten year hiatus. And I began
> > wondering . . . after what I had seen of the "skeptical"
> > investigation of my claim for homeopathy . . . what about
> > Geller?
>
> >
> > It seemed like everything the professional skeptics
> went
> > after they ended up providing the basis of proof for,
> starting
> > with CSICOP's investigation of Michel Gauquelin's statistics
> for
> > cosmic influences on human behavior.
>
> [Jack Sarfatti]
>
> Re: cosmic influences on human behavior see
> http://stardrive.org/Jack/Cosmology1.pdf
> http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/cosmic/
>
> > [John Benneth]
>
> > The same reaction kept popping up. The "investigators"
> > weren't investigating at all, they were waging war against
> > people and ideas that they obviously were afraid of. What,
> > except exposure, could they be afraid of? And it seems like
>
> > with every question we ask, we very quickly get an answer to
> it.
> >
> > The answer to "what are they afraid of" was not very
> pretty
> > for what it exposed. Then the reason for hating Geller and
> > Gauquelin, the reason for hating me, and people like us with
>
> > ideas like ours, became very evident.
>
> > But still I was not sure about Uri Geller, but
> interested
> > nonetheless, because if the "skeptics" were playing true to
> > form, with Randi rabidly leading the pack, Geller was for
> real.
> > Randi has never run an objective test on any of the subjects
> he
> > pretends to debunk. He just shoots from the lip. Randi has
> > called me all sorts of names, imputed that I am insane . . .
> in
> > fact, so has his old partner, ex-CSICOP editor Marcello
> Truzzi,
> > who now claims to be a friend of Uri's, and who is now a
> member
> > of the Psychic Entertainers Association, and to me, much
> like a
> > snitch still working for the other side.
>
> >
> > You know, when you get too close to the truth is when
> they
> > start screaming the loudest. But still, what about Uri? Can
> Uri
> > really do these things that we have mostly heard these
> > loudmouths insist he can't do?
>
> >
> > Prior to your reprinting of reviews about Uri here,
> > Winston, I had the opportunity to talk to Dr. Eldon Byrd,
> the
> > Navy scientist who arranged a number of highly controlled
> tests
> > on Uri, and after speaking with Eldon at length, I was
> convinced
> > as convinced could be without seeing it with my own eyes,
> that
> > what Uri does is for real. This perhaps is the most
> > encouraging thing I have ever come to realize, and here is
> why.
>
> >
> > Whereas Eldon gave me some interesting insight to the
> man
> > something else was also coming out of this. Uri's talents
> are
> > abilities everyone seems to possess. I am not writing on
> > speculation here, but rather the fact that others, when they
> see
> > what can be done, begin to do it too.
>
> >
> > And this has been the case with the Geller phenomenon.
>
> > This human generated phenomena of psychokinesis and
> > telepathy appears to be dependent on belief, not skill.
> > According to Eldon, there was a time when metal bending
> parties
> > were popular. He used to conduct them. He's seen a lot of
> other
> > people do what Uri does, especially kids.
>
> >
> > But since the grip of disbelief took hold, "Gellerism"
> went
> > into eclipse. The psi war was being won by the cynics. Led
> by
> > Randi and other magicians, disbelief was suppressing these
> > abilities. There are those who do not want you to have these
>
> > abilities.
>
> >
> > But Eldon says he's seen children bend the tines of
> forks
> > into knots that cannot be untied by doubters. And he's said
> that
> > he himself, after having been "tuned up" by Uri, began
> having
> > telepathic experiences himself.
>
> >
> > The real value of Uri Geller, I believe, is the example
> he
> > presents us. It's not just because what he does is for real,
> but
> > because he is NOT a cosmic freak. I believe he believes he
> is
> > essentially a normal person. What he is able to do is
> because of
> > his belief that is not interrupted by a lot of analysis or
> > doubt.
>
> >
> > This is incredibly empowering for Mankind.
>
> >
> > Back at the turn of the last century a man named
> Napoleon
> > Hill was given a twenty year mission by one of the world's
> > richest men, Andrew Carnegie, to investigate what it is that
>
> > makes some men succeed and some men fail.
>
> >
> > By the 1930's Hill had become a writer for Franklin
> > Roosevelt, and in writing his manifesto, "Think and Grow
> Rich,"
> > at first as a guidebook for himself, he came to one simple,
> > startling conclusion: Thoughts are things. Thoughts have a
> real,
> > detectable presence, a measurable basis to them. Matter is
> > affected by thinking. We can simply look around us for proof
> of
> > that, as anyone reading this is doing so through, in, or
> near
> > some human construct, that like even with this essay, first
> > began as a thought before it began to shape the matter that
> came
> > to represent it.
>
> >
> > The great recording medium here on this planet at
> least,
> > appears to be water. Water can actually be imprinted by
> > thoughts. We can see this through homeopathic medicine in
> the
> > way succussion and dilution appears to reverse the
> construction
> > process of matter, taking matter back to it's energetic, or
> > spiritual form, and likewise, we can say that homeopathy is
> > spiritual medicine, working through hydrogen polymers formed
> in
> > water, that like lenses appear to be rectifying energy from
> a
> > causal body.
>
> >
> > We have actually photographed these polymers in water.
> > You'll find some photographs of them on my website. A
> snapshot
> > of a thought, an idea, in water.
>
> >
> > Now when we look at these skeptics, they all appear to
> be
> > atheists. They revolt at the notion that there is a spirit
> and
> > systemic memory system for every thought and action. If
> you've
> > done serious wrong, a systemic memory system for the
> universe
> > may be a pretty scary thought. And we have evidence that
> these
> > people, the doubters, the false memory syndrome pushers,
> that
> > these cynics who think anything new and fantastic is a
> > construction of a charlatan or a delusional mind, seem to
> have a
> > real hatred, or jealousy of anything . . or anyone, who is
> as
> > innocent and naturally gifted as Geller. And likewise they
> have
> > an extreme jealousy of the same things in children. And
> > accordingly, as proof of it, and most tragically, we see
> that
> > the records of these self-styled skeptics are replete with
> > attacks on children and the innocent.
>
> >
> > Now they will say that I'm making this up to get back
> at
> > Randi for dismissing my claim on his offer to me by calling
> me
> > crazy. But we have the written testimony of two men, who as
>
> > teenagers were assaulted by James Randi. We have the written
>
> > testimony of a psychiatrist who claims Randi conspired to
> > defraud him and attack his ailing daughter. We have the
> written
> > testimony of a convicted pedophile who has seen Randi
> molesting
> > a teenager. We have recorded telephone interviews of Randi
> > soliciting teenage boys for sex.
>
> >
> > We have evidence that he has been a foster parent to a
> boy
> > that we suspect he routinely molested. We have evidence that
> he
> > has routinely invited boys into his home to live with him
> for
> > the purpose of tutoring them.
>
> >
> > We have newspaper articles detailing Randi's
> interference
> > with a police officer. He was the first person to be
> convicted
> > of slandering a police officer. Randi has run campaigns
> against
> > law enforcement. And he's not even a citizen of this
> country!
> > He's a Canadian, mysteriously living here by the approval
> of .
> > . .?
> >
> > We have the records of court cases in which Randi has
> been
> > successfully sued for libel and breach of contract. He was
> > proved to be a malicious liar in a court of law. We have a
> > statement by Randi claiming, under oath, that his Psychic
> > Challenge is defunct from lack of funds. We have transcribed
>
> > statements by Randi before audiences in which he calls
> himself a
> > cheat, a fraud, a dispenser of illusions. He has been
> recorded
> > to say to a large crowd that this opinions come from an
> > uninformed viewpoint. He said that at Caltech while telling
> how
> > his foster "son" changed Randi's bedding and stayed up late
>
> > nights to drink beer with itinerant magicians.
>
> >
> > We have a taped confession from Randi, detailing his
> > involvement and destruction of evidence in the death of a
> > teenage boy in Queens, who suffocated to death trying to
> perform
> > an escape that Randi was trying to teach him. That's a
> homicide.
> > And we have seen Randi use his "escape artistry" to lure
> teenage
> > boys into comprising positions.
>
> >
> > Yet nevertheless, this man is considered an authority
> on
> > hoaxes, appears regularly on American television, receives a
>
> > speakers fee of $10,000 and appears before audiences at
> places
> > like MIT and Caltech. He doesn't even have a high school
> > education, yet he reportedly runs an educational foundation.
>
> >
> > And yet despite his proclamations that he bases entirely
> on
> > "common sense", theory, foregone conclusions and a
> magician's
> > eye, it appears he has not objectively investigated anything
> in
> > a scientific manner. Yet he seems to be treated by some as
> more
> > of an authority on science than most scientists!
>
> >
> > Here's a man who has more notoriety than most Nobel
> prize
> > laureates. We have even seen that he has met with a foreign
>
> > government with the world's worst track record for religious
>
> > freedom to help construct a campaign of persecution against
> its
> > growing religious groups.
>
> >
> > And more than anyone else, the one person who seems to
> to
> > drive this man into fits of rabid denunciation, more than
> any
> > other, is Uri Geller. Randi has run a decades long campaign
> > against Uri in the U.S., and I believe the majority of us
> have
> > simply come to accept it, that Uri's a fake.
>
> >
> > In his book "The Faith Healers" we thought Randi was
> > performing a public service in exposing faith healers for
> their
> > fraud. But how much has this atheist retarded the progress
> of
> > human spiritual development if this particular book ends up
> > being like everything else he has pulled off, a complete and
>
> > utter fraud?
>
> >
> > What is sad is that most people seem to be content with
> > making up their mind about something without really checking
> it
> > out. Belief is not an easy commodity to come by, but
> disbelief
> > sells cheap. Disbelief is easy. Belief is hard.
>
> >
> > That's what makes you a very unusual person, Winston.
> You do
> > the hard stuff. You don't just take the easy way out by
> > accepting somebody else saying it isn't so. You check things
> out
> > for yourself. And you are proof that one man can change the
> > paradigm. You don't have an ax to grind. I do. Randi owes me
> a
> > million bucks. But I've also seen that even with the burden
> of
> > bias, I have been able to singlehandedly silence him, which
> has
> > given others cause to pause and wonder, and given us a
> chance to
> > take a second look at Uri.
>
> >
> > I was at the Oregon coast this weekend, and stayed in a
>
> > room overlooking a seagull rookery. At one point an eagle
> snuck
> > in and snatched one of the chicks. Let me tell you
> something.
> > Those seagulls went after that eagle. Just because he was
> big
> > and mean looking didn't stop them for a moment. That eagle
> had
> > to really make a run for it to keep from getting pecked to
> > death. And probably when he got home his wife said "what,
> > seagull again?"
>
> >
> > Those gulls didn't make it easy for him, even though he
> got
> > away with it. Seagulls have sharp beaks, and they're meat
> eaters
> > too, you know. They'll take on an eagle to save one of their
>
> > own, that was apparent.
>
> >
> > But I haven't seen that kind response here from human
> beings.
> > What I've seen is a predator at work, a sexual predator
> amongst
> > people who applaud what he does and silence their criticism
> of
> > him in his personal life because it's thought to be
> irrelevant
> > to the subject's he's attacking. And I've seen people who
> are
> > quite well aware of this man's activities, who appear to be
> > sitting back and doing nothing, except to invite the man to
> come
> > and speak to their kids!
>
> >
> > The Middletown , New Jersey police know about this man's
>
> > activities. And they're not the only police department
> that's
> > seen the evidence. I even read one police chief say that he
> > wasn't going to let some alien like Randi come into his town
> and
> > start running attacks on the police department and running
> down
> > law enforcement. And this was years ago. Randi simply moved
> to
> > Florida.
>
> >
> > This man seems to operate with impunity. He even
> speaks
> > before Congress! Who's protecting this guy? That's what I
> want
> > to know. Who has given this man a license to hunt our kids?
> I
> > wouldn't be surprised if this guy doesn't go down to the
> beach
> > at Ft. Lauderdale to look for another inner tube boy like
> Elian
> > Gonzalez to wash up.
>
> >
> > Who in American government thinks this foreigner is so
> > important that he's allowed to get away with all these
> > assaults? Is he given all this immunity because he debunks
> > supposed frauds like Uri Geller? Well, now we're finding out
>
> > that the human mind is capable of much more than someone
> like
> > Randi wants you to believe, and that Uri Geller isn't a
> fraud.
> > The real fraud is Randi.
>
> >
> > Randi has written to call me "dummy" or "dumbo." And
> these
> > seem to be normal appellations that he regularly awards
> people
> > who take the chance in believing in what appear to be a
> > miracles. Now you tell me, what's wrong with believing in a
> > miracle, unless that miracle somehow empowers the person
> > witnessing it, like telepathy, and threatens the exposure of
>
> > someone like Randi for what he's really thinking he'd like
> to do
> > . . . ?
> > One must ask, after seeing the overwhelming proof
> > contradicting Randi and his followers loud denunciations,
> "what
> > is it that these people are afraid of?"
>
> >
> > Geller is a true telepath. Most people didn't know that
> such
> > a thing was possible. But we have seen that when people see
> > these things work for themselves, when they see that they
> are
> > possible, they begin to exercise the same power.
>
> >
> > That's the danger of Uri Geller to people like James
> Randi.
> > Randi is afraid of Geller.
>
> >
> > Geller, in juxtaposition to Randi, is a family man who
> > appears to be honest and enthusiastic about the abilities he
> is
> > presenting. There's a great humility about him. He expresses
> an
> > explicit care and concern for children. All opposite
> > characteristics of James Randi, his magician friends and
> those
> > who would claim to be "skeptics." They are cynical and crude
> to
> > the extreme. They routinely engage in libel. And they attack
>
> > kids.
>
> >
> > Why doesn't someone ask to see the proof? Perhaps a nosey
>
> > investigative journalist.
>
> >
> > But what has Uri Geller, who by the way is a war hero .
> . .
> > he was a paratrooper in the Six Day War . . . what has Uri
> ever
> > said about Randi, in public? Nothing! The most we've ever
> heard
> > him say about Randi, who I believe is probably Uri's most
> notorious
> > enemy, who has been recorded saying to Uri's face that he
> hates
> > him . . . the most we've ever heard Uri say in return is
> that he
> > simply doesn't want to go near the man.
>
> >
> > In every adversity there is the seed of a greater or
> equal
> > benefit. In digging into all of this I've learned a lot.
> I've
> > gone beyond homeopathy to learn about new applications for
> > energetic pharmaceuticals, about the new spiritual medicine.
> And
> > I now believe, as a result of this test of fire, that any
> human
> > condition can be changed. I think anyone, even Uri Geller,
> > through these new spiritual medicines that have been
> developed,
> > people can grow into something stronger, more intuitive and
> > intelligent than they were before. I believe any disease can
> be
> > cured with spiritual medicine. And it's people like Uri
> Geller
> > and WInston Wu who have given me the confidence to believe
> in
> > the spiritual power to change the world.
>
> >
> > Recently, for the first time in 35 years, I've been
> doing
> > sprints as a result of a spiritual medicine program I've
> been on
> > now for about three months. The other day I was running
> uphill
> > with my two year old son on my back while carrying my dog.
> There
> > have been dramatic changes in my life. This is the stuff of
> mind
> > medicine.
>
> >
> > If anyone wants to know more about this, write me an
> email
> > and I'll send you my telephone number and I can tell you
> more
> > about this directly. I believe now that when you heal
> yourself
> > of your problems, or even if you're well, taking this
> spiritual
> > medicine not only creates personal growth in the individual,
> but
> > it reaches into that causal body of energy and helps to heal
> the
> > collective energetic body of Mankind. So you can't do this
> just
> > for yourself, when you do it you do it for for everyone.
> Cancer,
> > heart disease, stroke and drug overdose, the four major
> killers
> > in the U.S. I believe will soon be a thing of the past.
>
> >
> > Therefore I guess it makes it your civil duty to call me
> and
> > get on the road to healing yourself, no matter how healthy
> you
> > think you are, learning how its done and teaching other
> people
> > to do it. It starts with constructing your trauma history.
> > That's the seed that has come out of this adversity with the
>
> > "Psychic Challenge." A new form of healing. And I found Uri
> > Geller, and discovered he is real. And Uri can make a seed
> > sprout just by holding it in his hand. So now that I've
> found
> > the seed, I want Uri to make it grow.
> > Are you with me?.
> >
> > John Benneth
> >
> >
> > WWu...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > Dear all,
> > > I wanted to share two noteworthy reviews from the
> amazon.com
> > > reader review
> > > section on the book "Uri Geller: Magician or Mystic?" by
> > > Jonathan Margolis.
> > > The reason I think it's a noteworthy review is because it
> was
> > > written by
> > > someone who was a hardened skeptic of Geller until he read
>
> > > this book, then he
> > > changed his mind. Look at the genuineness and sincerity
> of
> > > his words:
> > >
> > > http://www
> > >
> amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/book-customer-reviews/-/1566490251/21/104
>
> > >
> > > -7435803-9223152
> > >
> > > Beautifully written, compelling, perhaps right
> > > April 4, 1999
> > > Reviewer: A reader from Montreal, Canada
> > >
> > > I am a physician on vacation in
> > > London from Montreal, Canada, and bought this book in a
> spirit
> > > of
> > > open-mindedness, although I have to admit, in reality, I
> > > dearly wanted
> > > to hate it and its subject, Mr Geller. Instead, I ended up
>
> > > losing two
> > > days of my trip, because it proved impossible to put down!
>
> > > Like the
> > > author, I am too nervous, conservative, whatever, to be
> > > utterly
> > > convinced by Geller, but as a scientist by training, the
> > > evidence
> > > offered is very, very compelling, and even if ultimately
> I'm
> > > not quite
> > > swayed, the book is such a fantastic, closely argued, yet
> > > un-putdownable
> > > work that, finding myself in a cool Internet cafe off
> > > Portobello Road, I
> > > just had to see what was being said about the book on
> Amazon.
> > > I'm
> > > delighted by most of the comments, as they accord with my
> > > view, reached
> > > in the isolation on a hotel room. All I can say is, buy
> this
> > > book! And
> > > especially if, like me, you regard youself as a skeptic.
> The
> > > only reason
> > > I've given it four stars, not five, is good old Canadian
> > > parsimony. It's
> > > worth five really.
> > >
> > > Airplanes can't fly - but Geller can bend spoons
> > > April 4, 1999
> > > Reviewer: A reader from Los Angeles
> > >
> > > Johnathan Margolis has written various autobiographies
> over
> > > the
> > > years including John Cleese and Lenny Henry. He admits
> that he
> > >
> > > doesn't believe airplanes can fly without difinitive
> proof, so
> > > he would
> > > obviously be a faveourite with the sceptics to write a
> book
> > > about
> > > psychic Uri Geller. Perhaps this is the reason that
> Canadian
> > > magician
> > > was so welcoming - yet the tables have turned now that
> this
> > > amazing
> > > book has been released and rubbishes all other accounts -
> this
> > > is even
> > > more convincing than the book Uri wrote about himself. The
>
> > > magicians
> > > can say what they like, but if this sells like I seen on
> its
> > > release day,
> > > Geller will be unanimously accepted for what he is - a
> truly
> > > great and
> > > genuine man.
>
> --
> "But the real glory of science is that we can find a way of
> thinking such
> that the law is evident. ... For a successful technology,
> reality must
> take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be
> fooled."
> Feynman
> "I want to know God's thoughts ... the rest are details. ...
> Great
> Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
> mediocre minds.
> ... Quantum mechanics is very impressive. But an inner voice
> tells me
> that it is not yet the real thing. The theory produces a great
> deal but
> hardly brings us closer to the secrets of the old one."
> Einstein
> "It's the end of the line, and I feel a paradigm about to
> shatter. Let's
> get to the heart of the Grey Matter." Pamela Stonebrooke
> http://www.well.com/user/sarfatti/
re...@magic.com
If this is true, why hasn't he done any useful for mankind? Why hasn't he
used his great powers to save people? Has he offered his services to find
lost children, or solve crime cases? Has he used his powers to help stop
wars, or help scientists cure diseases? Has he taught others how to learn to
use such innate powers in all of us? I'm sure there are thousands of people
who believe in Uri and would be willing to spend whatever it would take for
they themselves to use even a small amount of his powers, and it would benefit
all of mankind for Uri to teach others his great skills. So has Uri done
this? Has he accomplished anything worthy of note for mankind?
Do you want real magic? Real magic is being done on a daily basis by people
who spend hours volounteering to care for the needy and the sick, without
expecting any pay. Or the doctors and nurses that go into 3rd world countries
and war zones to care for people, without expecting any pay. Or teachers who
put up with horrendous school conditions and poor pay in order to try and help
young children to grow up and live good lives. People relating to each other
in wonderwous ways. That is the true magic in this world.
No matter what wonderous powers people might possess, they will always be
judged by how they affected or interacted with other people. So what magic
have you accomplished today with the powers you presently possess?
A person once saw a sick homeless person in the street, and thought "If God
exists, why doesn't God do something to help people like this." That night in
a dream, God came to the person, and answered "I did do something. I created
you."
Ultimate Group
as the fine, upstanding trustworth citizen that i'm sure you are, i am at a
loss as to understand why, when you have all this compelling evidence of
randi's illegal actions, you have not immediatly copied all of it to your
local police office for immediate investigation. Or perhapse to the poor
parents / investigators of the death of this teenager you claim he murdered,
i am sure that in both cases if there is even the slightest chance that what
you say is true they would launch an immediate, full scale investigation. I
don't know what the position would be over there in the USA but here in the
uk, if somone possed huge ammounts of compelling, damming evidence as you
claim; but failed to turn it over to the proper authorities, they would
become, by default, an accessory to the crimes. If you have turned all this
info over already then please point us to the investigating officers, and
their conclusions so that we can all see the truth?
I have my own personal beliefs as to validity of claims made by uri gellar,
and other "psycics" and am quite keen to find independant, quantifyable
proof that their powers are real, what concerns me greatly though is why
many of them, in their public demonstrations, resort to simple magicians
tricks to demonstrate their powers, surely they have no need to resort to
such trickery? Perhapse the greatest example of this was a TV series called
"The best of magic" which uri-gellar featured regularly on, performing, well
known, "Off the shelf" magic tricks but claiming that they demonstarted his
psycic powers?? i am rather confused; why did he not just demonstrate his
true powers?
Finally to your belief in the extreme powers of homeopathic medcine. There
are a number of well publicised cases in the uk at the moment, of innocent
children just weeks away from death (heart failure, cancer etc) who's
parents are pleading with the world for somone to come along and save their
children, or at least buy them a little more time until transplants or cures
can be found. There would be one way to definitvly and un-questionably
prove, once and for all the powers that you have, by simply comming over and
curing these children. The un-doubted publicity this would create would
bring the vast majoriy of population over on to your side and would stop
this argument once and for all. After all, who could argue with somone who
has cured illnesses that the finest doctors in the world could not??
I look forward to reciving your responses so that we can immediately prove,
once and for all, the validity of your claims.
Yours
Tom
John Benneth wrote in message <396A0CEF...@cyberhighway.net>...
Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.
A mother sees her infant crawl under a school bus, she proceeds to
lift the front of the school bus off the ground and holds it there
until the infant crawls back to safety.
A similar instance, a man picks up a large steel pipe to save his son.
Another learns are acquires the ability to cause a metal spoon or key
to bend untouched and ungaffed using the power of his mind. He then
learns a few other effects he can do with this power. It goes to his
head and he makes all kinds of claims using trickery and illusion to
make him appear what he's not.
ESP comes in many different forms, some may have the ability to be a
viewer of existing locations, others especially twins or mothers can
sense when a twin-sibling or daughter is in danger or hurting, and
others may have the ability to tune into the frequency range of
another thus giving the appearance of mind reading.
However, these rare abilities and one-time circumstances can in no way
normally be used for the betterment or help of someone else. In some
cases a phenomena can be learned or understood, but that does not
necessarily mean the phenomena can be shared with someone else.
Technically, there is nothing performed that defies the laws of
nature, never has been and never will be. It could be that we just
don't understand all the laws of nature yet and perhaps there are many
that have not yet even been discovered or illuded to.
When did the earth change from being flat to being round?
It didn't did it, it was always round, figuratively speaking.
And my favorite "There are 97 elements, no more, no less" remember
that from your skewl daze? Any other answer earned you an "F"!
How many elements are there?
Was there gravity before Newton discovered it?
ESP is a FACT that we don't yet understand enough to define it's
various properties. You cannot yet divide it into it's prismatic
branches like you can sunlight into all the colors it produces.
At this stage in time, we only see the white light of ESP, because we
don't understand it, we consider it as flat as the earth once was
before we were inlightened to the fact that it was really round.
CROSSPOSTING REMOVED
TTUL
Gary
--
"All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer
dhu...@my-deja.com
ra...@slacc.com wrote:
>
> ESP is a FACT
Bullshit. If ESP were a fact Latoya Jackson and Dionne Warwick would be
placing bets in Vegas or beating Jim Randy out of a cool mil and not
trying to hustle poor people out of their money on the phone.
ESP is utter bullshit and there has NEVER been evidence that proves
otherwise.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John LeBlanc
<dhu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8kfijh$qiq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> ESP is utter bullshit and there has NEVER been evidence that proves
> otherwise.
Danny, I *knew* you would say that. ;)
John LeBlanc
sl
news:cjIa5.13167$451.4...@news-west.usenetserver.com...
Oh, and although I have never seen a mention of it in the thread with thi
sheader name -- the "sprouting seeds in his hand" thing *was* a trick - and
not a particularly impressive one, either.
sl
Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.
I'm not going to argue with you!
You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.
By the way, you missed the whole point and context of my post!
Most of what I indicated as one time occurances are already well
proven, witnessed and highly documented facts.
dhu...@my-deja.com
ra...@slacc.com wrote:
>
> By the way, you missed the whole point and context of my post!
> Most of what I indicated as one time occurances are already well
> proven, witnessed and highly documented facts.
I think I understood your poing very well you seem to have missed mine.
What you are talking about are not facts, they are merely opinions. Of
those most were fairy tales and others were exaggerations.
It was also highly documented for years that the world was flat.
People witnessing me bend a spoon also think I have REAL magic powers.
I assure them that I do not. That does not change the fact that they
still believe. This does not mean I can bend spoons using the power of
my mind. I can't.
You certainly are entitled to believe what you want to believe but do
not call it fact when it is anything but.
The fact is there is no PROOF of ESP occuring anywhere at anytime.
There is however tremedous amounts of evedence supporting the theory
that all ESP is fraud and for some reason this evedence can be
demonstrated and recreated at any moment.
Why is it that any documentation or evidence of ESP can not be
recreated under test conditions? Why is it that Randy is still holding
on to all that money after all these years?
Extrordonary things that no one understands happen everyday in the
world. That doesn't mean ESP exsists.
Card Flourishes
The Brain is indeed an incredibly complex machine that no-one comprehends
(or probably ever will). Take for example this: "We have over
1,000,000,000,000 brain cells, but the interconnections between them can
form patterns and memory traces that permute to a number so staggeringing
large as to be functionally equivalent to infinity. The number calculated is
1, followed by 11 Kilometres of 0's (This size font)." Our brain can
calculate in 1 second, what it would take the Cray Supercomputer (running at
400 million calculations per second) 100 years to accomplish. Another
analagy for the number of connections between our brain cells is that there
are more than all the molecules in the universe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What can
I say - our brains are the most incredible thing this world has, or ever
will see. Obviously there is so much possibility and scope beyond which we
can begin to comprehend, possibly including that of ESP, although I am a
self-confessed sceptic of Uri-Gellar and the like. Some people may have the
gift of some brain development, but none yet have managed to control it, or
so much good would have been done!
Admittedly, I may be a child, but I am entitled to my opinions and I believe
that it is possible that ESP exists, yet no-one as of yet has discovered how
to control it. People like Uri Gellar may have managed to get a thread of it
themselves, or they may just be exploting the rest of us, but it will be
possible, just not yet. As for all the miracles that have occured in
hospitals etc...what do we assosciate miracles with? God. Nuff said.
Personally I think Uri Geller is a fake, but I believe it is possible at
some stage to discover the power of our brains and to enhance for good (and
bad) purpose. Also - the DNA of our bodies - you know over 90% of it is
called "Junk DNA" because we don't know what it does yet.... nuff said...
Cf
ps. remember Feynman and Uri?
"John Benneth" <gi...@cyberhighway.net> wrote in message
news:396A0CEF...@cyberhighway.net...
<Loads of weird stuff about strange happenings and some Uri Geller I believe
stuff>
Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.
I'm sure that 99.999999% of those who claim to have ESP are just
charletans. But what about that other .0000001%??????
Just because somebody can drive a car, don't mean they can fly a
plane, pilot a ship or drive a diesel rig.
Same with ESP, just because somebody can perceive one particular stong
event or thing they are unfamiliar with, doesn't mean they can tell
you which card is next, what numbers are going to appear on the slot
machine or how many peas or in a bucket.
I wouldn't give you a plug nickel for all the psychic's in the world
that claim ESP powers.
It's those that don't flaunt it, don't tell anyone and only use their
rare ability to help others at no pay and often anonymously that
concern me.
If you don't believe in ESP that's fine.
But that don't mean it doesn't exist or that it doesn't happen on
occasion.
There have been far to many unexplained occurrences of ESP like events
for there not to be some shread of evidence to make one wonder about
the possibility of ESP being a reality.
Even in my own family, I had an aunt who passed away after several
critical operations. She was officially pronounced dead at least 4
times during her later years. As all who come back from the dead, she
talked about the white light and stuff like that which could just be
the brain dying. However, one time, she saw and reported she saw not
only herself laying on the operating table, but also a row of number
that were red and very big. An investigation of the operating room
never turned up anything that could be viewed from above that had
large red numbers. A few years later she had the same vision while
under anesthesia in another operating room, only this time she said
she saw very large squares with a large number on each while looking
down. Again the operating room was investigated and they were not
found.
However, a year later the drop ceilings were replaced in the operating
rooms and guess what was discovered. The first operating room, each
ceiling panel was numbered with a large red number, the second
operating room each had smaller numbers that were blue/gray in
appearance.
How did she see those numbers while under anesthesia laying on an
operating table? Why did she tell us she saw big red numbers the
first time, and why did she tell us she saw numbers in squares the
second time?
My wife sat up in bed one night like she was startled by a bomb going
off, she jumped up so quick that she woke me from a sound sleep. I
looked at her and asked what's wrong. At first she said she didn't
know, then a minute later she said, my sister, somethings happened to
my sister. I reminded her that she had just talked to her sister
yesterday and she was just fine. I made her go back to sleep and
wouldn't let her call her sister in Florida in the middle of the
night. About 1/2 hour later we received a telephone call from
Florida, her sister had passed away about 1/2 hour earlier than the
phone call.
I don't know what other term to put on these events other than ESP as
being the only defined word I know of that describes them accurately.
Many stories like these are heard all around the world. If it's not
ESP, what is it?????
Cyberia
news:tP4b5.959$O47....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
<snip>
CF, your naivete is showing.
Where did you get this quote ?
"We have over 1,000,000,000,000 brain cells, but the
interconnections between them can form patterns and
memory traces that permute to a number so staggeringing
large as to be functionally equivalent to infinity. The number
calculated is 1, followed by 11 Kilometres of 0's (This size font)."
> Our brain can
> calculate in 1 second, what it would take the Cray Supercomputer (running
at
> 400 million calculations per second) 100 years to accomplish.
What Cray computer is rated at 400 MegaFlops ? The T3E, for example, is
rated at 2.4 TFlops. People's brains cannot compete with Silicon in terms of
mathematical computations. If that were true, what purpose would these
machines serve ?
> Another
> analagy for the number of connections between our brain cells is that
there
> are more than all the molecules in the universe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did it occur to you that these "connections" are themselves composed of
molecules ? How then can they outnumber the very things of which they are
composed (and of which they represent an incredibly small fraction) ?
--
---------------
SeeYa !
--------------
Hello....... Is this thing on ?
dhu...@my-deja.com
ra...@slacc.com wrote:
> If you don't believe in ESP that's fine.
> But that don't mean it doesn't exist or that it doesn't happen on
> occasion.
So, what you are saying is even though I don't believe in santa claus
it doesn't mean he doesn't jump down a chimmney or two once per year?
This makes no sense. Santa doesn't exist.
The two stories you mention are wonderful stories. This doesn't mean
they are ESP. For all I know they may be just stories. There is no
proof. Without any proof at all supporting your statements I'm afraid
they are not worth much. For instance the story of the woman lifting
the bus you mention in an earlier post. I heard this story when I was
10 and it was a Volkswagon Beetle and the woman was 6 months pregnant
and lifted the car off of her husband. Stories like this are called
urban legands. they are great stories but they are hardly real.
Weird things that currently do not have an explaination happen in the
world everyday. This doesn't mean these things can't be explained
without using ESP.
I have a problem with stamping ESP on any incedednt that doesn't have a
ready explaination. I have this same problem when every strange light
in the sky is labled UFO.
Until you can sit a person in a room and have them PROVE these powers
there will be no PROOF of there exsistance. Wonderful stories about
grandmothers and numbers and wives and bombs are wonderful stories but
to an impartial 3rd party observer they are just wonderful stories.
They prove nothing.
Best,
Dan-
John LeBlanc
Card Flourishes <ama...@postmark.net> wrote in message
news:tP4b5.959$O47....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> 1,000,000,000,000 brain cells, but the interconnections between them can
> form patterns and memory traces that permute to a number so staggeringing
> large as to be functionally equivalent to infinity.
I have concrete proof (on the highway system here in Houston, TX) to utterly
dispute that assertion. ;)
John LeBlanc
"Alt is dead, it's time to quit flogging the corpse."
-- Chris Lewis, Usenet Guru Maximus
Card Flourishes
The book was written in the late 70's so that was probably one of the first
Crays. You can knit-pick all you like, but the main point I was trying to
make still stands strong: our brains are AMAZING and we have so much more
work to do to understand and harness them. From the calculations point, we
are concious... any computer can do that? Thats what our brain power is.
cf
"Cyberia" <cyb...@gscyclone.com> wrote in message
news:EP5b5.928$OM1....@east2.usenetserver.com...
> "Card Flourishes" <ama...@postmark.net> wrote in message
> news:tP4b5.959$O47....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> <snip>
>
> CF, your naivete is showing.
>
> Where did you get this quote ?
>
> "We have over 1,000,000,000,000 brain cells, but the
> interconnections between them can form patterns and
> memory traces that permute to a number so staggeringing
John LeBlanc
<dhu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8kka9i$7sq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> This makes no sense. Santa doesn't exist.
I'm warning you now, Danny, stop it. I know for a fact Santa *does* exist; the
Easter Bunny told me so.
John LeBlanc
dhu...@my-deja.com
I'm sorry...I just get carried away sometimes...i feel so...ashamed..
best,
Dave Scallan
> However, a year later the drop ceilings were replaced in the operating
> rooms and guess what was discovered. The first operating room, each
> ceiling panel was numbered with a large red number, the second
> operating room each had smaller numbers that were blue/gray in
> appearance.
Urban Legends have a fatal flaw. They lack practical logic!
Take the aunt/operating room story. When the ceilings were being replaced,
who from the aunts family would have been present? A phrase used like "and
guess what was discovered" is often passed over without anyone asking,
"discovered by whom?".or better still,"Why would they care?"
Imagine the following exchange by 2 workers doing the drop ceiling
replacement job:
"Hey Lou, look what I found under this panel.......... A NUMBER!" "WOW
A Number? really? That's very weird!, Hey I just remembered something.
Remember that old lady that was in here for a gall bladder operation about 4
years ago?" "Sure, how could I forget, she's the one who told her family
about the red numbers she saw under anesthesia, right?" "Yeah, and nobody
BELIEVED her!" "Yeah and the numbers were here all along!"
"Yeah , SPOOKY!"
Dave
Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.
>Urban Legends have a fatal flaw. They lack practical logic!
>Take the aunt/operating room story. When the ceilings were being replaced,
>who from the aunts family would have been present? A phrase used like "and
>guess what was discovered" is often passed over without anyone asking,
>"discovered by whom?".or better still,"Why would they care?"
Actually it was discovered by her surgeon Dr. Friskle who also heard
her story first hand and many other stories that were never discovered
as to what she saw.
>Imagine the following exchange by 2 workers doing the drop ceiling
>replacement job:
>
>"Hey Lou, look what I found under this panel.......... A NUMBER!" "WOW
>A Number? really? That's very weird!, Hey I just remembered something.
>Remember that old lady that was in here for a gall bladder operation about 4
>years ago?" "Sure, how could I forget, she's the one who told her family
>about the red numbers she saw under anesthesia, right?" "Yeah, and nobody
>BELIEVED her!" "Yeah and the numbers were here all along!"
>"Yeah , SPOOKY!"
Funny scenario, except for one major flaw, the contractors would not
have known of her story between herself and her doctor.
I can't prove the incident with my wife sitting up in bed, as I was
the only witness. However, the incident at the hospital is documented
in my Aunt Pat's charts and a follow up later was added by the doctor
AFTER the numbered panels were discovered.
Just because someone cannot repeat a rare occurance does not mean it
didn't happen. Albeit stories do get quite exagerated as they are
passed along, this is a common occurance, but it doesn't negate the
original instance a fact that started the story in the first place.
I know a lot of things that appear to be ESP are just afterthoughts,
after the fact, and you only think you remember the incident before it
happened. UFO stands for unidentified flying object, doesn't mean the
object is extraterrestrial does it!
Question: Can you explain what phenomena woke my wife from a sound
sleep and made her say her sister just died, or any other person who
this has happened to, only to discover that what they thought woke
them really happened? Coincidences just don't occur that frequently!
I can't prove it happened, but I know it happened first hand because I
was there and the witness to the incident. But I hear of accounts
like this all the time.
John LeBlanc
Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr. <ClassicHa...@bbs.galilei.com.no.spam> wrote in
message news:396ddeaf...@news.galilei.com...
>
> I can't prove the incident with my wife sitting up in bed, as I was
> the only witness. However, the incident at the hospital is documented
> in my Aunt Pat's charts and a follow up later was added by the doctor
> AFTER the numbered panels were discovered.
>
> Just because someone cannot repeat a rare occurance does not mean it
> didn't happen. Albeit stories do get quite exagerated as they are
> passed along, this is a common occurance, but it doesn't negate the
> original instance a fact that started the story in the first place.
Would you kindly post the above in sci.skeptic? It's been way too long since
I've witnessed someone savagely devoured there and frankly I feel a bloodlust
coming on.
John LeBlanc
Cyberia
> ok - quotes from Tony Buzan "Speed reading" - a well known fact actually.
> The book was written in the late 70's so that was probably one of the
first
> Crays. You can knit-pick all you like, but the main point I was trying to
> make still stands strong: our brains are AMAZING and we have so much more
> work to do to understand and harness them. From the calculations point, we
> are concious... any computer can do that? Thats what our brain power is.
I was not nitpicking. The "facts" quoted are erroneous, unverifiable and/or
totally fabricated. Lots of fluff, nothing to grab hold of. Meaningless
comparisons of incomparable terms.
I do not disagree that the brain is complex. I do not disagree that it is
not well understood today. I do not disagree that consciousness is uniquely
animal (humans do not posess an exclusive on this).
Farting is uniquely animal also, no one ever compares *this* to computer
capabilities with nebulous units of measure. Why does it make sense to
compare conciousness to MFLOPS, GFLOPS or TFLOPS ?
What's the point of doing this sort of comparison ? It makes about as much
sense as to compare the Sun, which is currently processing hydrogen into
helium via fusion, to the human brain. How many million years would it take
for a human brain to process the same amount of hydrogen as the Sun does in
1 second ?
Is your point that the brain is complex therefore Uri Geller's powers are
real and we can all do this if we just harness our brain to it's full
potential ? If so, you are more naive than I had initially thought.
People are always squawking about how we need to "harness" the "amazing
power" of the human brain. A good start would be not buying into all the
pseudoscientific bullshit that is espoused by believers in "the paranormal".
*Use* your brain instead of being credulous.
dhu...@my-deja.com
Prisons are also full of guys who say they are innocent too. It doesn't
mean they are.
Your logic is flawed Gary, believe what you want but face the fact that
because there is no proof you can't convince anyone else of it.
If I were you I'd let it go. there isn't much point in continuing if
your only proof is things you've heard.
Best,
Kevin Fortin
disagree
I have had a few striking personal experiences that strongly
suggest that things are connected funny behind the scenes
My current working model is that ESP incidents occur when
it's a good idea for them to happen
Personal experience cannot be subjected to the scientific
method, because a person cannot stand in the same river
twice
Best wishes to all,
Kevin
Card Flourishes
every second our brain processes what we see and what we hear and what we
feel from millions of nerves - how long would it take a machine to do that?
Also what resolution can a computer see in compared to us? What sound
depth??
I think Uri Geller is a fraud - but I think it will be possible to make
something of our brains in the future, including ESP. Geez, lighten up
dude....
I was trying to put across how dynamic and complex the brain is and how we
will never be able to fabricate anything so complex...
Cf
"Cyberia" <cyb...@gscyclone.com> wrote in message
news:B9mb5.83$1I3....@east2.usenetserver.com...
Card Flourishes
"John LeBlanc" <jwle...@KILLSPAMmy-deja.com> wrote in message
news:SPhb5.3329$h%5.9...@news-east.usenetserver.com...
>
> Card Flourishes <ama...@postmark.net> wrote in message
> news:tP4b5.959$O47....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> >
> > The Brain is indeed an incredibly complex machine that no-one
comprehends
> > (or probably ever will). Take for example this: "We have over
> > 1,000,000,000,000 brain cells, but the interconnections between them can
> > form patterns and memory traces that permute to a number so
staggeringing
> > large as to be functionally equivalent to infinity.
>
>
Cyberia
> Go on... Read the thread above with Cyberweenie
Ouch. I am mortally wounded.
Cyberia
apples to oranges. The reverse can be done as I indicated. Try performing a
fast Fourier transform on something you hear.Try reading a thousand barcodes
in less than a minute.
Just because you are somehow infatuated with the idea of the brain being
"impossibly complex" it does not follow that ESP is a possibility.
--
---------------
SeeYa !
--------------
Hello....... Is this thing on ?
"Card Flourishes" <ama...@postmark.net> wrote in message
news:mXEb5.318$Ew5....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> Ok, none of the facts were erroneous or fabricated. Take our conciousness,
> every second our brain processes what we see and what we hear and what we
> feel from millions of nerves - how long would it take a machine to do
that?
> Also what resolution can a computer see in compared to us? What sound
> depth??
>
> I think Uri Geller is a fraud - but I think it will be possible to make
> something of our brains in the future, including ESP. Geez, lighten up
> dude....
>
> I was trying to put across how dynamic and complex the brain is and how we
> will never be able to fabricate anything so complex...
>
> Cf
> "Cyberia" <cyb...@gscyclone.com> wrote in message
> news:B9mb5.83$1I3....@east2.usenetserver.com...
> >
> > "Card Flourishes" <ama...@postmark.net> wrote in message
dhu...@my-deja.com
Kevin Fortin <kfo...@ufl.edu> wrote:
> This seems like a topic where people just have to agree to
> disagree
This seems like the smartest approach to me.
Card Flourishes
One should have an open-minded approach on subjects - and if you see how
impossibly complex the brain is, you have to admit there is a fair chance
that ESP or whatever is quite possible when we evolve enough so we can
develop our control...
cf
"Cyberia" <cyb...@gscyclone.com> wrote in message
news:iUHb5.3341$Tf5....@east2.usenetserver.com...
EdwardK908
seeds placed in an unidentified envelope and have the seeds sprouted in the
hand of the miracle worker. Then grow the seeds untill one could identify that
the seeds did indeed grow into the plants they were supposed too (this would
eliminate any switching of seed for presprouted seed).
Perhaps a certain variety or hybrid that would be very identifiable could be
placed in the unlabeled envelope to make the production more reliable.
Ed
Dodn't Houdin perform a seed sprouting trick?
Cyberia
> Sorry 'bout the "cyberweenie" thing - completely irrelevant ;)
OK, apology accepted. "heat of battle" perhaps ?
>
> One should have an open-minded approach on subjects - and if you see how
> impossibly complex the brain is, you have to admit there is a fair chance
> that ESP or whatever is quite possible when we evolve enough so we can
> develop our control...
I am afraid I do not accept that the brain is "impossibly complex". One day
it will be understood.
I also do not admit there is any chance at all for "ESP". There simply is no
way to explain a physiological mechanism in the brain that would permit one
to foresee the future, move objects using some as yet undiscovered energy,
or any of the myriad other claims of the paranormal.
Just out of curiosity - do you also believe in Alien abductions, predicitons
of Nostra Damus, dowsing, pyramid power, homeopathy ? Where do *you* draw
the line ?
Card Flourishes
indeed
> I am afraid I do not accept that the brain is "impossibly complex". One
day
> it will be understood.
which is what ive been saying - (ish) yet we cannot understand it now...
> I also do not admit there is any chance at all for "ESP". There simply is
no
> way to explain a physiological mechanism in the brain that would permit
one
> to foresee the future, move objects using some as yet undiscovered
energy,
> or any of the myriad other claims of the paranormal.
you just said we dont understand the way the brain works so how can you say
there is no mechanism for it if we dont know what any (or few) of the
mechanisms are!!
> Just out of curiosity - do you also believe in Alien abductions,
predicitons
> of Nostra Damus, dowsing, pyramid power, homeopathy ? Where do *you* draw
> the line ?
ok - right, that hurt man... i like to think i am scientifically minded so
as to all of that - no. hang on, in case you didnt get that.... NO NO NO
NO!! Just like Uri Gellar is the biggest pile of BULLS!*T most of that is
too. However I do believe that aliens exist, somewhere.... (want some stats?
howabout there are as many stars in the universe as there are grains of sand
on this planet - i did NOT make that up or anything else you care to accuse
me of)
Also - I guess you are a sci.sceptic - and not an alt.magic as I am... that
would explain a lot. Does that mean you are sceptical of science?!
Cf
Cyberia
>
> you just said we dont understand the way the brain works so how can you
say
> there is no mechanism for it if we dont know what any (or few) of the
> mechanisms are!!
There is no physiological mechnism that can project an energy beam (through
skin and bone) and move objects. Do you really think there is such a device
in your head ?
>
> > Just out of curiosity - do you also believe in Alien abductions,
> predicitons
> > of Nostra Damus, dowsing, pyramid power, homeopathy ? Where do *you*
draw
> > the line ?
>
> ok - right, that hurt man...
Sorry, that was not meant to be inurious. I sorta came into this thread
late, I have no idea of your background. I have this "pet theory" that
people who believe in souls, afterlives, ESP, PK and such are much more
likely to accept all that "other stuff".
> i like to think i am scientifically minded so
> as to all of that - no. hang on, in case you didnt get that.... NO NO NO
> NO!! Just like Uri Gellar is the biggest pile of BULLS!*T most of that is
> too. However I do believe that aliens exist, somewhere.... (want some
stats?
> howabout there are as many stars in the universe as there are grains of
sand
> on this planet - i did NOT make that up or anything else you care to
accuse
> me of)
>
> Also - I guess you are a sci.sceptic - and not an alt.magic as I am...
that
> would explain a lot. Does that mean you are sceptical of science?!
Yes, in a manner of speaking. All scientists are skeptical of claims of
other scientists (and would-be scientists like myself). Evidence and
repeatable experimentation is required before new theories, particularly
radical ones, are accepted. Perhaps you meant to make a word-play on the
group title, but in a sense folks in this group are skeptical, even of
claims of scientists. Especially if the scientist is backing some radical
unproven and unsupported theory like ESP.
Card Flourishes
(through
> skin and bone) and move objects. Do you really think there is such a
device
> in your head ?
I believe there could, yes, COULD, be some mechanism (not mechanical) to do
odd things, yet I'm not sure about laser beam type devices...
> Sorry, that was not meant to be inurious. I sorta came into this thread
> late, I have no idea of your background. I have this "pet theory" that
> people who believe in souls, afterlives, ESP, PK and such are much more
> likely to accept all that "other stuff".
ok - no worries
> Yes, in a manner of speaking. All scientists are skeptical of claims of
> other scientists (and would-be scientists like myself). Evidence and
> repeatable experimentation is required before new theories, particularly
> radical ones, are accepted. Perhaps you meant to make a word-play on the
> group title, but in a sense folks in this group are skeptical, even of
> claims of scientists. Especially if the scientist is backing some radical
> unproven and unsupported theory like ESP.
I'm not so sure about ESP itself, but I'm sure there are other "things" that
we will be capable of in the near(ish) future too...
All the best,
Cf
Terry Smith
> Sorry 'bout the "cyberweenie" thing - completely irrelevant ;)
>
> impossibly complex the brain is, you have to admit there is a fair chance
> that ESP or whatever is quite possible when we evolve enough so we can
> develop our control...
If you had the slightest clue regarding the dynamics and mechanisms of
evolution, you wouldn't make that statement.
You are a waste of space.
Your one true friend et.cet.
Homesteader
Sounds to me like that BOTH side are disputing facts they can not confirm,
using research they did not do nor witness, have faith in the words of
people they have not seen and use theories they can not prove with education
they have not questioned the validity of regardless of how prestigious an
institution they may have attended. When you have these many variables
involved, all that EITHER side of this issue can say is "I may be more right
than you". This, in my opinion renders this whole thread as a fruitless
argument.
........of course.....that IS just my humble opinion. You ARE allowed to be
wrong. :)
Homesteader
"Terry Smith" <po...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39711243$0$11207$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
Card Flourishes
cf
Homesteader
Kevin Fortin
Kevin Fortin
that Invisible Hands are conspiring behind our backs ;-)
best wishes,
Kevin