FSF lisp library changes -- next Lucid version?

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Matthew J Brown

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May 26, 1993, 9:56:46 AM5/26/93
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Will the next release of Lucid Emacs contain most of the Emacs Lisp
changes to FSF v19.8? Obviously some things aren't compatible with
the way Lucid Emacs works, but how about the rest?

My first impressions of FSF v19 vs. Lucid Emacs 19: I liked having
scroll bars and having horizontally-split windows, selective display
etc. working, but the FSF menus are *tacky*. IMHO it's high time FSF
emacs began to use XT and widgets properly -- anyone who has X has XT
anyway. Lucid's event and keymap implementation is generally better.

In the Lisp library, however, FSF emacs was much more polished. Lucid
Emacs's Lisp is (except for that which had to be changed due to
changes in Lucid's C code) largely v18 with a hodgepodge of seperate
packages tied on.

The GNU documentation was better, too.

-Morven

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| Matthew J. Brown | Dept of Computing | If God intended for us to go to |
| m...@doc.ic.ac.uk | Imperial College, | lectures He wouldn't have created |
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Charles Hines

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May 26, 1993, 12:14:18 PM5/26/93
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>My first impressions of FSF v19 vs. Lucid Emacs 19: I liked having
>scroll bars and having horizontally-split windows, selective display
>etc. working, but the FSF menus are *tacky*. IMHO it's high time FSF
>emacs began to use XT and widgets properly -- anyone who has X has XT
>anyway. Lucid's event and keymap implementation is generally better.
>
>In the Lisp library, however, FSF emacs was much more polished. Lucid
>Emacs's Lisp is (except for that which had to be changed due to
>changes in Lucid's C code) largely v18 with a hodgepodge of seperate
>packages tied on.
>
>The GNU documentation was better, too.

I also liked the scrollbars, but the menus were horrid. And why did they
choose to not go with motif or lucids motif style widgets for the menus
and the scrollbars?

I would love the next version of LucidEmacs to have the capability to
place vertical & horizontal scroll bars (motif style) on each edit area.
Any plans for this?

Chuck
+------------------------------------------+----------------------------------+
|Charles K. Hines | |
| |"dis ting could have possabiwities|
| |if I put my twisted widdle mind to|
|Internet: chuck...@vnet.ibm.com |it!" - Bugs Bunny |
|Internal IBM: hi...@cold.fishkill.ibm.com | |
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Ed Gamble

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May 26, 1993, 6:46:29 PM5/26/93
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In article m...@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew J Brown) writes:

In the Lisp library, however, FSF emacs was much more polished. Lucid
Emacs's Lisp is (except for that which had to be changed due to
changes in Lucid's C code) largely v18 with a hodgepodge of seperate
packages tied on.

For example?

The more important questions however is will Lucid and FSF Emacs keep
jumping each other's minor version number? Lucid's next release should be
Lucid Emacs 19.27 just to see if the FSF jumps to 19.>28.

- Ed

Jamie Zawinski

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May 26, 1993, 11:37:15 PM5/26/93
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Ed Gamble wrote:
>
> The more important questions however is will Lucid and FSF Emacs keep
> jumping each other's minor version number? Lucid's next release should
> be Lucid Emacs 19.27 just to see if the FSF jumps to 19.>28.

Jimb and I don't really have any good ideas what to do about this; he says
that he didn't pick 19.7 because the last lemacs was 19.6, but that by some
great, cosmic coincidence, there really were 6 alpha releases of FSF's
version...

I'll probably call the next lemacs 19.7, and just hope that people mention
which one they mean. `emacs-version' is "19.6 Lucid", after all.

-- Jamie

Neal Becker

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May 27, 1993, 11:55:59 AM5/27/93
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>>>>> On Wed, 26 May 1993 16:14:18 GMT, hi...@brooklyn.fishkill.ibm.com (Charles Hines) said:


>My first impressions of FSF v19 vs. Lucid Emacs 19: I liked having
>scroll bars and having horizontally-split windows, selective display
>etc. working, but the FSF menus are *tacky*. IMHO it's high time FSF
>emacs began to use XT and widgets properly -- anyone who has X has XT
>anyway. Lucid's event and keymap implementation is generally better.
>
>In the Lisp library, however, FSF emacs was much more polished. Lucid
>Emacs's Lisp is (except for that which had to be changed due to
>changes in Lucid's C code) largely v18 with a hodgepodge of seperate
>packages tied on.
>
>The GNU documentation was better, too.

Charles> I also liked the scrollbars, but the menus were horrid. And why did they
Charles> choose to not go with motif or lucids motif style widgets for the menus
Charles> and the scrollbars?

Motif cost money! Is the lucid widget stuff free? What are the
licensing restrictions on this?

Charles> I would love the next version of LucidEmacs to have the capability to
Charles> place vertical & horizontal scroll bars (motif style) on each edit area.
Charles> Any plans for this?

That would be a very welcome addition, that would help convert a lot
of anti-emacs types around here.

Barry A. Warsaw

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May 27, 1993, 12:30:15 PM5/27/93
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Hmm, maybe: Lucid Emacs 20.1 would solve the problem ;-)

Jamie Zawinski

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May 27, 1993, 2:27:57 PM5/27/93
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Neal Becker wrote:
>
> Charles> I also liked the scrollbars, but the menus were horrid. And
> Charles> why did they choose to not go with motif or lucids motif style
> Charles> widgets for the menus and the scrollbars?

>
> Motif cost money! Is the lucid widget stuff free? What are the
> licensing restrictions on this?

Lucid Emacs can be compiled with Motif if you have it, but also comes with a
simple set of Motif-lookalike widgets used for the menubar and popup menus.
This code is Copylefted; all you need is Xt. (Even if you have Motif, I
recommend that you use the Lucid widgets, since they're loads faster (though
not 100% compatible).)

> Charles> I would love the next version of LucidEmacs to have the

> Charles> capability to place vertical & horizontal scroll bars (motif
> Charles> style) on each edit area. Any plans for this?

Yes. Not in the next release, but soon.

-- Jamie

Jamie Zawinski

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May 27, 1993, 2:35:25 PM5/27/93
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Matthew J Brown wrote:
>
> Will the next release of Lucid Emacs contain most of the Emacs Lisp
> changes to FSF v19.8? Obviously some things aren't compatible with
> the way Lucid Emacs works, but how about the rest?

Probably not, because I don't have time. The current beta version of
lemacs has had many FSF changes merged in to it, along with a lot of
internal improvements. Most of the files in the lemacs lisp/prim/
directory have been merged against their FSF counterparts, but the
rest of the lisp library has not.

This is something that a volunteer could easily do, since it doesn't
require intimate knowledge of lemacs internals...

> The GNU documentation was better, too.

Likewise, I don't have much time to hack documentation if you want all of
these redisplay bugs fixed...

I'm also still looking for some noble volunteer to add "configure" support
to lemacs. This should be quite simple with the current lemacs beta, since
at this point, the lemacs s/ and m/ directories are basically identical to
their GNU19 counterparts.

-- Jamie

Jason Robbins

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May 27, 1993, 1:40:55 PM5/27/93
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In article <EBG.93Ma...@hoshi.hip.atr.co.jp>

e...@hoshi.hip.atr.co.jp (Ed Gamble) writes:
The more important questions however is will Lucid and FSF Emacs keep
jumping each other's minor version number? Lucid's next release should be
Lucid Emacs 19.27 just to see if the FSF jumps to 19.>28.

At the rate that GNU bug fix versions are comming out, maybe 27 is too
small a nnumber for Lucid to avoid confusion with a soon to exist GNU
version.
-jason

Hayden Schultz x3685 g42

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May 27, 1993, 1:54:22 PM5/27/93
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Please don't use motif-style scrollbars. Remember, this is emacs, so
I'd like to be able to control what mouse buttons are bound to in the
scrollbars. I don't care if they look like motif scrollbars, just that
they don't have to act like them.

I hate motif (and Open Look, for that matter) scrollbars because I'd
like one button to scroll up and another to scroll down, and another to
scroll absolutely ala xterm scrollbars. It annoys me that I have to
click before the gizmo or after the gizmo. It really anoys me when the
gizmo moves up past my mouse cursor and the same clicking which was
scrolling up now starts to scroll down.

I'll bet that once you add scrollbars, people will want to bind their
own functions to do interesting things.

Hayden

Wolfgang

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May 30, 1993, 5:58:23 PM5/30/93
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Hello !


In article <HAYDENS.93...@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu>
hay...@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Hayden Schultz x3685 g42) writes:

>
>
> Please don't use motif-style scrollbars. [...]

> I hate motif (and Open Look, for that matter) scrollbars because I'd
> like one button to scroll up and another to scroll down, and another to

> [...]


Well, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have scroll bars,
but I understand your thoughts. Maybe it would be best to build in
optional scrollbars, like in the xterm command: if you want
scrollbars, just do 'lemacs -sb', otherwise just 'lemacs'.

How about that ?


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