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Extend a deadbolt to fit 5" thick?
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Jana
Nov 16, 2011, 3:40:03 PM11/16/11
to
Hello,
I'm hoping you can offer some expertise here...we make gate hardware.
We often sell customers deadbolts to lock their gates, and have been
asked dozens of times this year if we have a deadbolt that fits a
"thick" gate. Generally they mean 4 or 5" thick. Up until now we've
always said no.
We have a machine shop at our disposal, and have come to the point
where we want to try to modify a standard deadbolt to fit a thick door/
gate. Before we start working on it, I thought I'd post to see if you
have any suggestions or cautions about doing this?
Thank you!
Jana
www.360yardware.com
I'm hoping you can offer some expertise here...we make gate hardware.
We often sell customers deadbolts to lock their gates, and have been
asked dozens of times this year if we have a deadbolt that fits a
"thick" gate. Generally they mean 4 or 5" thick. Up until now we've
always said no.
We have a machine shop at our disposal, and have come to the point
where we want to try to modify a standard deadbolt to fit a thick door/
gate. Before we start working on it, I thought I'd post to see if you
have any suggestions or cautions about doing this?
Thank you!
Jana
www.360yardware.com
Jay Hennigan
Nov 16, 2011, 6:25:55 PM11/16/11
to
as Schlage have hardware on both sides plus the latch mechanism in the
middle.
There are two through-bolts that clamp the two sides together plus a
flat bar that extends from the lock cylinder through the latch mechanism
to the other side.
Longer bolts are the first step. These are usually a hardened material
with a somewhat unusual head to allow trim to cover the bolt heads.
The tailpiece is the tricky part, but still not all that difficult.
There are two styles.
If the deadbolt has a key on only one side, it's essentially a long flat
bar with a circular disk on one end. The disk has a cut-out section to
allow a little over 90 degrees of slop so that the thumb-turn can
operate without the rigid cylinder holding it in place.
If the deadbolt has keys on both sides, then there is a tailpiece in
each cylinder. These tailpieces are thinner but with a bump in the
middle. They overlap when passing through the latch mechanism. Same
principle in that either cylinder can operate the bolt without being
bound by the other.
The overall length of the parts will need to be customized based on the
actual thickness. Standard hardware will accommodate doors from about
1-3/8 to 1-3/4 inches thick. Any thinner and the bolts bottom out, any
thicker and they may not reach. So you will likely have to offer your
hardware in roughly 1/4 inch increments.
From a security standpoint there is often a metal sleeve provided for
the outer side that prevents someone from drilling a small hole and
inserting a "poker" to flip the latch hardware. If your gates are metal
this isn't a big concern. If wood you should consider offering
something along these lines.
Also there should be ball-bearings provided that are to be inserted into
the bolt holes on the outer cylinder to make drilling into and backing
out the bolts more difficult. These come with good deadbolts.
Buy a Schlage B-660 (single) and B-662 (double) deadbolt and this will
help you understand.
There are other makes and cheaper hardware but the Schlage B-660 series
is what I would recommend for this type of thing.
Stormin Mormon
Nov 16, 2011, 6:36:33 PM11/16/11
to
I'd suggest to contact some of the lock manufacturers.
Kwikset and Schlage have thick kits for up to 2 1/4 inches.
Are the gates solid wood or hollow metal? Wood should be
easier to design.
There is a chance you can extend the tail piece, or weld two
together some how. The mounting screws would have to be
custom made, some how.
My first thought was the Schlage BC-160 would be a good one
to practice with.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Jana" <fj62...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1cfb5f6f-df53-4236...@i4g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Kwikset and Schlage have thick kits for up to 2 1/4 inches.
Are the gates solid wood or hollow metal? Wood should be
easier to design.
There is a chance you can extend the tail piece, or weld two
together some how. The mounting screws would have to be
custom made, some how.
My first thought was the Schlage BC-160 would be a good one
to practice with.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Jana" <fj62...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1cfb5f6f-df53-4236...@i4g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Jana
Nov 16, 2011, 9:38:35 PM11/16/11
to
Thank you both for the comments. You've both been incredibly generous
with your time and knowledge! The deadbolts we carry are Emtek brand.
I'm not sure if you've heard of them? But interestingly, they do not
come with ball bearings to insert into the bolt/screw holes. We have a
few down in the shop so were fooling with one today. We have a lathe
and could make the screws if necessary but will scour the internet for
some lengths to save the trouble. Luckily the deadbolt sample we have
takes a 10/32" thread which seems pretty common. If we're offering the
extension kits in 1/4" increments it would be really nice to have
stock on hand and not have to make them. Emtek's using an Allen head
on theirs...not sure if it's for security or looks.
The deadbolt that's been asked about over and over this year is the
stainless one we have. So the screws need to be at least 18-8
stainless, if not a higher grade. That, of course, makes it more
difficult. Here's the link for it if you want to look:
http://shop.360yardware.com/Stainless-Steel-Square-Deadbolt-S50003.htm
The majority of folks want single cylinder, so I think that's what
we'll focus on right now. I know we'll need to monkey around with the
innards of a double cylinder when we eventually tackle it.
I think where we're hung up is dealing with the tail. My concern is
that at a 5" thickness the current tail material is too flimsy and
will get all twisty and potentially break or bend inside. Plus they
have their own style/profile at the end of the tail that fits into the
knob-side, and we'd need to match that profile. Do you think if we
just make longer tails in essentially the same material and size
(except for length) that they would withstand the pressure of turning?
It would be inserted through the bolt, so theoretically midway through
the 5" it would have some support. Any thoughts on this would be
really appreciated!
Jana
with your time and knowledge! The deadbolts we carry are Emtek brand.
I'm not sure if you've heard of them? But interestingly, they do not
come with ball bearings to insert into the bolt/screw holes. We have a
few down in the shop so were fooling with one today. We have a lathe
and could make the screws if necessary but will scour the internet for
some lengths to save the trouble. Luckily the deadbolt sample we have
takes a 10/32" thread which seems pretty common. If we're offering the
extension kits in 1/4" increments it would be really nice to have
stock on hand and not have to make them. Emtek's using an Allen head
on theirs...not sure if it's for security or looks.
The deadbolt that's been asked about over and over this year is the
stainless one we have. So the screws need to be at least 18-8
stainless, if not a higher grade. That, of course, makes it more
difficult. Here's the link for it if you want to look:
http://shop.360yardware.com/Stainless-Steel-Square-Deadbolt-S50003.htm
The majority of folks want single cylinder, so I think that's what
we'll focus on right now. I know we'll need to monkey around with the
innards of a double cylinder when we eventually tackle it.
I think where we're hung up is dealing with the tail. My concern is
that at a 5" thickness the current tail material is too flimsy and
will get all twisty and potentially break or bend inside. Plus they
have their own style/profile at the end of the tail that fits into the
knob-side, and we'd need to match that profile. Do you think if we
just make longer tails in essentially the same material and size
(except for length) that they would withstand the pressure of turning?
It would be inserted through the bolt, so theoretically midway through
the 5" it would have some support. Any thoughts on this would be
really appreciated!
Jana
Jana
Nov 16, 2011, 10:46:26 PM11/16/11
to
I forgot to add, the gates are solid wood 90% of the time.
Occasionally we have someone with a metal frame and wood clad.
Occasionally we have someone with a metal frame and wood clad.
Message has been deleted
Jay Hennigan
Nov 17, 2011, 2:32:00 AM11/17/11
to
On 11/16/11 6:38 PM, Jana wrote:
> I think where we're hung up is dealing with the tail. My concern is
> that at a 5" thickness the current tail material is too flimsy and
> will get all twisty and potentially break or bend inside.
This isn't a big issue if the lock is properly installed and the
> I think where we're hung up is dealing with the tail. My concern is
> that at a 5" thickness the current tail material is too flimsy and
> will get all twisty and potentially break or bend inside.
gate/door is and remains true. Where it becomes an issue is when the
strike gets out of alignment with the bolt when the door warps or sags.
Then the user puts force on the key and/or thumb-turn and can damage
things. You're probably OK with a steel bar for that length. Keys are
about the same cross-section and typically made of softer metal than steel.
RS at work
Nov 17, 2011, 1:50:05 AM11/17/11
to
(they make the locks used in commercial storefront doors) or an Ilco
deadbolt that uses mortise cylinders for the lock and then get the
cylinder extenders like this:
http://www.majormfg.com/c-61-extend-a-cylinder.aspx
Now you can make the gate any thickness you want.
I suggested the Adams Rite lock because it has a much longer bolt than
a tubular bolt and it allows you to remain an operating gap without
compromising security.
Roger Shoaf
Stormin Mormon
Nov 17, 2011, 8:02:51 AM11/17/11
to
It's been a lot of years, but I did get called to rekey
several Emtek locks on a house. I found the cylinders (the
key hole part) to be totally awful. The manufacturing
tolerances were just useless. I don't know if they have
improved since then.
Since you have the longer screws figured (sounds like). The
tail piece is the next challenge. I don't remember thier
tail pieces very well, but who can tell.
Did you contact their sales and marketing people? See if
they might custom make a run of long screws and tails?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Jana" <fj62...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:02039736-de19-409a...@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
several Emtek locks on a house. I found the cylinders (the
key hole part) to be totally awful. The manufacturing
tolerances were just useless. I don't know if they have
improved since then.
Since you have the longer screws figured (sounds like). The
tail piece is the next challenge. I don't remember thier
tail pieces very well, but who can tell.
Did you contact their sales and marketing people? See if
they might custom make a run of long screws and tails?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Jana" <fj62...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Stormin Mormon
Nov 17, 2011, 8:10:07 AM11/17/11
to
Thicker and stronger is good. You'd have to make a two piece
asembly, so that the cylinder would activate the bolt from
one side, the turn knob from the other (BC-162 style).
If properly sized, the edge bore hole should support the
bolt OK.
<m...@notanywhere.net> wrote in message
news:4m59c7pfmd8r8fugu...@4ax.com...
for the rod to drive the bolt mechanism, think BIGGER..
take a KW for example, its a shy quarter inch by
something..
where does it say you cannot come out of the back of the
lock-required size to fit the lock, 'fasten to' a larger
diameter/shaped 'pipe' or such, to get to the latch bolt,
about 2
inches for a 5 inch thick door,, THRU the latch necessary to
clear,
at the original shape, then back thicker to get near the
thumb turn,
and go back down to original shape.
you got 3 small original areas.. and 2 bigger,
Look at the Schlage double cylinder DB, BOTH tail pieces
fit the hole
in the latch, 1 reversed from the other.
but BOTH into the same hole.
fastening the tail piece to the inside thumb turn would be
the only
(to me) unique problem.. or CAREFULLY getting the length
correct, so
that as you screwed the TK on, it would hold the tail piece
in place.
Think of a cone on the latch hole so there was no available
slack for
the tail piece to back out, nor any piece of the tail piece
contacting
the latch for drag..
--Shiva--
asembly, so that the cylinder would activate the bolt from
one side, the turn knob from the other (BC-162 style).
If properly sized, the edge bore hole should support the
bolt OK.
<m...@notanywhere.net> wrote in message
news:4m59c7pfmd8r8fugu...@4ax.com...
for the rod to drive the bolt mechanism, think BIGGER..
take a KW for example, its a shy quarter inch by
something..
where does it say you cannot come out of the back of the
lock-required size to fit the lock, 'fasten to' a larger
diameter/shaped 'pipe' or such, to get to the latch bolt,
about 2
inches for a 5 inch thick door,, THRU the latch necessary to
clear,
at the original shape, then back thicker to get near the
thumb turn,
and go back down to original shape.
you got 3 small original areas.. and 2 bigger,
Look at the Schlage double cylinder DB, BOTH tail pieces
fit the hole
in the latch, 1 reversed from the other.
but BOTH into the same hole.
fastening the tail piece to the inside thumb turn would be
the only
(to me) unique problem.. or CAREFULLY getting the length
correct, so
that as you screwed the TK on, it would hold the tail piece
in place.
Think of a cone on the latch hole so there was no available
slack for
the tail piece to back out, nor any piece of the tail piece
contacting
the latch for drag..
--Shiva--
Stormin Mormon
Nov 17, 2011, 8:11:27 AM11/17/11
to
Lori makes a deadbolt, that takes mortise cylinders (use the
Adams Rite cam). I don't know if cylinders can be purchased
that long. But, it takes a fairly standard drill prep. 2 1/8
cross bore, and 1 inch edge bore.
"RS at work" <roger...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:77ca3a5b-0f27-4703...@s7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Adams Rite cam). I don't know if cylinders can be purchased
that long. But, it takes a fairly standard drill prep. 2 1/8
cross bore, and 1 inch edge bore.
"RS at work" <roger...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:77ca3a5b-0f27-4703...@s7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Jana
Nov 18, 2011, 4:01:36 PM11/18/11
to
Thanks again to all of you for being so generous with time and
opinions. I think we're seeing two possible options for the tail
piece. We like Shiva's suggestion of doing a larger diameter rod to
get through the length. We would machine both ends to match what needs
to fit in both the cylinder and the thumb turn. The question becomes
what to do in the middle....
1) Use the existing Emtek deadbolt parts that we have and make a 2-
part assembly so that part of the rod/tail fits through the "+" cross-
hair opening in the bolt. Or...
2) Use the trim and cylinder and knob-turn of Emtek, but try to find a
deadbolt (just the bolt portion) that has the square opening in the
center rather than the cross-hair, because then we can use standard
square stock and only have to fiddle with the profiles on the two ends
of the rod.
I've done some searching with the info you all gave me, and followed
the links, etc., but have been unable to find just a "part" which is
the bolt and it's inner guts that has a square opening on the bolt.
Can you recommend a few online sources I might look for parts, and
what exactly is the name of what I'm talking about? Is it a deadlatch?
Bolt? I don't know the terminology and that's probably part of the
reason I'm having trouble finding parts.
Thank you!
Jana
opinions. I think we're seeing two possible options for the tail
piece. We like Shiva's suggestion of doing a larger diameter rod to
get through the length. We would machine both ends to match what needs
to fit in both the cylinder and the thumb turn. The question becomes
what to do in the middle....
1) Use the existing Emtek deadbolt parts that we have and make a 2-
part assembly so that part of the rod/tail fits through the "+" cross-
hair opening in the bolt. Or...
2) Use the trim and cylinder and knob-turn of Emtek, but try to find a
deadbolt (just the bolt portion) that has the square opening in the
center rather than the cross-hair, because then we can use standard
square stock and only have to fiddle with the profiles on the two ends
of the rod.
I've done some searching with the info you all gave me, and followed
the links, etc., but have been unable to find just a "part" which is
the bolt and it's inner guts that has a square opening on the bolt.
Can you recommend a few online sources I might look for parts, and
what exactly is the name of what I'm talking about? Is it a deadlatch?
Bolt? I don't know the terminology and that's probably part of the
reason I'm having trouble finding parts.
Thank you!
Jana
peterwn
Nov 20, 2011, 1:20:11 AM11/20/11
to
On Nov 17, 9:40 am, Jana <fj62re...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm hoping you can offer some expertise here...we make gate hardware.
> We often sell customers deadbolts to lock their gates, and have been
> asked dozens of times this year if we have a deadbolt that fits a
> "thick" gate. Generally they mean 4 or 5" thick. Up until now we've
> always said no.
Use a cylinder mortice lock with extra long cylindars. Bi-Lock
> Hello,
> I'm hoping you can offer some expertise here...we make gate hardware.
> We often sell customers deadbolts to lock their gates, and have been
> asked dozens of times this year if we have a deadbolt that fits a
> "thick" gate. Generally they mean 4 or 5" thick. Up until now we've
> always said no.
(Australia) manufacture a wide range of cylindars (American round
cylindars, various oval cylindars, Euro cylindars, Schlage cylindars,
cam locks, you name it), so much so that they seem capable of doing
short runs of cylindars to meet most needs.
Message has been deleted
Jana
Nov 29, 2011, 11:07:33 PM11/29/11
to
Just a quick update if anyone is interested. We've made the prototoype
(using all-thread to extend the screws, and a machined tail (starting
from square-stock) that fits through the + shape of the deadbolt. The
tail is a beefy stainless steel and is machined with a female side and
set-screw that the existing tail fits into, as well as a male side
that goes into the knob-turn side. It works flawlessly on a 5-1/2"
thickness after ~50 open and shuts. We'll be rolling this out to use
with all single cylinder deadbolts that we offer. Thank you all for
the suggestions and feedback and ideas. They were incredibly helpful!
(using all-thread to extend the screws, and a machined tail (starting
from square-stock) that fits through the + shape of the deadbolt. The
tail is a beefy stainless steel and is machined with a female side and
set-screw that the existing tail fits into, as well as a male side
that goes into the knob-turn side. It works flawlessly on a 5-1/2"
thickness after ~50 open and shuts. We'll be rolling this out to use
with all single cylinder deadbolts that we offer. Thank you all for
the suggestions and feedback and ideas. They were incredibly helpful!
Bob AZ
Dec 26, 2011, 2:15:16 AM12/26/11
to
. Before we start working on it, I thought I'd post to see if you
> have any suggestions or cautions about doing this?
>
> Thank you!
> Janawww.360yardware.com
McMaaster-Carr for long screws. "mcmaster.com" Up to 6" for many
> have any suggestions or cautions about doing this?
>
> Thank you!
> Janawww.360yardware.com
different materials and styles. Expensive but so is machine time.
Bob AZ
desu...@gmail.com
Jan 27, 2017, 9:00:28 AM1/27/17
to
Can you help me?
John at ark...@yahoo.com or...571-327-9922
Thank you
desu...@gmail.com
Jan 27, 2017, 9:05:41 AM1/27/17
to
Any chance of you helping me find what I need?
Hand built 4 1/4 inch door (wood). Would like to put a black cast iron
handle and lock on door (which I can easily find) but need to locate
a way to stretch for door thickness!
Thanks
John ark...@yahoo.com or 571-327-9922
jo...@innovativebuilders.com
Jul 16, 2019, 12:19:30 PM7/16/19
to
Skipfromla
Jul 16, 2019, 2:54:03 PM7/16/19
to
On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 09:19:27 -0700 (PDT), jo...@innovativebuilders.com
wrote:
If you want to modify a standard deadbolt, that would mean fabricating
a tailpiece to the correct length so it would work in the deadbolt.
The only time I had a customer with this problem, I had him take the
gate to a welding shop so they could modify the area of the gate where
the deadbolt would go so it would accept a standard size deadbolt.
Skip
wrote:
a tailpiece to the correct length so it would work in the deadbolt.
The only time I had a customer with this problem, I had him take the
gate to a welding shop so they could modify the area of the gate where
the deadbolt would go so it would accept a standard size deadbolt.
Skip
pickproof
Jul 19, 2019, 9:54:23 AM7/19/19
to
https://shop.360yardware.com/Stainless-Steel-Square-Deadbolt-for-Thick-Gates-and-Doors-S50003-Ext.htm
dalexy...@gmail.com
Feb 10, 2020, 11:22:14 AM2/10/20
to
Skipfromla
Feb 11, 2020, 2:43:15 AM2/11/20
to
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