how do i pick a coke machine lock.......
Jim West
On the off chance that this is legit, describe the machine & lock, is
this an antique machine ?
JW
CherHers wrote in message <19981207210736...@ng-fa2.aol.com>...
>.....or how do i get a key for one?
>i recently bought a coke vending machine and I got it at a nice price. The
>catch was that there is no key to open it! So I decided to buy it because
I
>figured, how hard could it be to pick the lock....(boy was I wrong!).
Well,
>could anyone help me? It would be greatly appreciated!
>
> G.H.
Jim West
your subject line it is leading. And as tempted as I was to ignite the
flame thrower, I refrained. You must realize though that these machines are
not common place in the home. There have been many people who have posted
here with obvious intentions. Your post was border line, so I included the
"by chance"
There is not anything that can be described to let you into the machine.
So as Shiva said, contact a local locksmith. Once satisfied with your proof
of ownership, s/he can open and provide a new lock and key pretty fast. FYI
it is called a TUBULAR or ACE lock.
CherHers wrote in message <19981207212646...@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
>I don't mean to be rude but what makes you think you can acuse everyone of
>lying?! You aren't any better than anyone else! I simply asked for
assistance
>with my problem. It says it was manufactured may 89. It has one of those
>locks that they have on some computers. It is round and I can see little
>prongs or pins around the outer part inside. Would the serial # help if I
gave
>it to you?
CherHers
CherHers
Thom
>lying?!
It's not a case of lying but it is a very "leading question" Lockpicking
looks "neat" and "easy" on the big screen but actually, it is not. Between
the tools sometimes required and the knowledge to do the job which is always
required, It is an expensive art to learn and posess. Would you ask a doctor
to explain an appendectomy so that you may perform it yourself?...I think
not...
There are many people who come here and immediately want to know how to pick
locks. As professionals, we are not allowed (by law) to divulge this
information but also...we are wary of anyone we don't know who comes to us
with this request. It is actually a large responsibility we hold in order to
make you...the common person (not engaged in the trade) safer from the ones
who would use it unscrupulously.
>You aren't any better than anyone else!
We are not in some ways but in matters of security we are the shield behind
which your safety lies. Any one of us could make a fortune on a book titled
"How to Defeat any Kind of Lock System" we could even sell a Series...a
primer on lock picking...a primer on auto entry...a primer on defeating
safes. How long we would remain outside of prison is another question.
Locksmithing has been around for thousands of years and these secrets are
still not commonly available...as tradesmen with ethics, locksmiths stand
pretty damn high on the list.
>I simply asked for assistance with my problem.
You're right. Nobody should jump on you but...only idiots like me have the
time and patience to explain themselves fully.
The type of cylinder is an "Ace" (which is generic for the type of keyway)
and the tools and skill required for you to open it are beyond anything you
can reasonably expect to come up with. Save your time and aggravation and
have it done correctly by a competent locksmith. He may even be able to sell
you keys afterward at a nominal fee.
>Would the serial # help if I gave it to you?
Perhaps but doubtful unless it really was the code but...it would probably
cost as much as picking and replacing since the tool required for code
cutting an "Ace" key is worth a couple weeks of middle income salary. (These
tools do have to be paid for) If you gave us the code however, we would have
to go back to the top of this answer and provide the word "code" everywhere
the word "pick" is used instead...
Sorry and good luck.
- Thom
Dennis Heath
the machines. I have bought a couple of used machines in the past for
my offices and as long as your legit, there is no problem. And it is
usually very cheap. I could not have done it as cheap myself.
Dennis Heath
Nogami
wrote:
>We are not in some ways but in matters of security we are the shield behind
>which your safety lies. Any one of us could make a fortune on a book titled
>"How to Defeat any Kind of Lock System" we could even sell a Series...a
>primer on lock picking...a primer on auto entry...a primer on defeating
>safes. How long we would remain outside of prison is another question.
>Locksmithing has been around for thousands of years and these secrets are
>still not commonly available...as tradesmen with ethics, locksmiths stand
>pretty damn high on the list.
Hmm... I've been lurking around here for quite a while, just reading
messages and I have to admit that every time this particular thread
comes up, it irks me somewhat...
I mean, the information on picking various types of locks has been
floating around on the net for years - after reading it, you begin to
comprehend just how insecure common mechanical locks are - if you are
at all good at problem solving, and have a little mechanical savvy,
it's not especially hard to work through most locks you'll find today.
After reading a bunch of this stuff a few years back, I decided to
practice on the deadbolt to my house - It took me around 45 minutes to
successfully pick the pins in it the first time I tried, but I got
better with practice, and I eventually managed to get down to only a
minute or two, which is probably still slow. At this point, you kind
of have to question the "false sense of security" you get from the
common locks...
Now to date, I've rekeyed my own locks, altered my own keys with a
(ahem) dremel tool to fit a rekeyed lock, disassembled and rekeyed a
Miwa security magnetic lock, and a few other interesting ones like
rekeyable padlocks and such. It's not what you'd call rocket science.
Now granted, there are special high-security locks which ARE tough to
defeat without the proper tools, or enough time, but the vast majority
of locks on houses, cars, and other consumer-level property are more a
deterrent against an average guy off the street than a well-informed
person.
I guess it depends on the question, but the vast majority of people
asking about locks, and opening them, could probably do better with a
search on altavista, or some other search engine for the information
than asking here. Or, the best way of doing it, would simply be to go
out and learn for one's self. Granted, there are "tricks of the
trade" that would often make things easier, but the raw information
could often be found on the internet, and in books.
The snappy, sarcastic comments that I often see from those claiming to
be licensed locksmiths here does NOT give the average reader a
terribly good impression of their social skills, nor would it make ME
want to deal with them.
N.
Jim West
JB
wrote:
Well said. JB, Licensed Locksmith
Thom
>messages and I have to admit that every time this particular thread
>comes up, it irks me somewhat...
Unfortunately, you are right about the amount of information that can be
gleaned from various sources. Also about the sarcastic responses often found
here...but the fact remains...that (ok, comparatively speaking) the art of
locksmithing and especially it's secrets are pretty closely held.
As far as the ability to pick a standard cylinder goes, it's really not much
of a secret or restriction which is why, at least in areas that I know of,
where people actually do lock their doors (unlike my relatives who live in
the boonies of Maine) most locksmiths will try to talk their customers into
something with some resistance to being picked.
Just as a good locksmith will try to promote a Bronze or Brass Rim-Lock
(like the Segal 667) over a Zamac Lock for reasons of resistance to breaking
up under impact)
Not all, but most do try to steer their clients in the proper direction.
- Thom
"Keyman"
pick
locks. As professionals, we are not allowed (by law) to divulge this
>>information
Thom,
I am not taking up for anyone but I don't know of any State that it is
against the Law to divulge that information.
.
>>we are wary of anyone we don't know who comes to us
>with this request. It is actually a large responsibility we hold in order
to
>make you...the common person (not engaged in the trade) safer from the ones
>who would use it unscrupulously.
Agree with you on this one~!!!!
.
>>Any one of us could make a fortune on a book titled
>"How to Defeat any Kind of Lock System" we could even sell a Series...a
>primer on lock picking...a primer on auto entry...a primer on defeating
>safes. How long we would remain outside of prison is another question.
>Locksmithing has been around for thousands of years and these secrets are
>still not commonly available...
Thom,
I will have to disagree with you again, this Information will NOT make
anyone rich.
There are already books published on just about all aspects of the Lock &
Key Industry.
Ethics is what makes the difference.
You are right, as tradesmen with ethics, locksmiths stand
pretty damn high on the list.
My Two Cents
Keyman
>
Glenn Rickards
I think the real problem is that many of the locksmiths who participate
here are protective of their turf. For example, I have seen posts that say
that lockpicking requires practice, practice, practice and is a skill that
is
very difficult to acquire and then turn around and say that if they told
people
where to get lock picks they would be compromising the security of the
community. Of course, anyone with the patience to practice, practice,
practice
and the knowledge of how to find this newsgroup would probably be able
to find the MIT Guide or other such works, find out where to buy lock picks
and so forth.
Nogami wrote in message <36730212....@199.60.229.8>...
>On 8 Dec 1998 18:46:41 GMT, "Thom" <hdwma...@sworldnet.att.net>
>wrote:
>
>>We are not in some ways but in matters of security we are the shield
behind
>>which your safety lies. Any one of us could make a fortune on a book
titled
>>"How to Defeat any Kind of Lock System" we could even sell a Series...a
>>primer on lock picking...a primer on auto entry...a primer on defeating
>>safes. How long we would remain outside of prison is another question.
>>Locksmithing has been around for thousands of years and these secrets are
>>still not commonly available...as tradesmen with ethics, locksmiths stand
>>pretty damn high on the list.
>
>Hmm... I've been lurking around here for quite a while, just reading
>messages and I have to admit that every time this particular thread
>comes up, it irks me somewhat...
>
Glenn Rickards
You say that you are "not allowed (by law) to" divulge how to pick a lock.
What law is this? What state? Does it apply only to registered locksmiths?
Glenn
Thom wrote in message <74js6h$h...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>>I don't mean to be rude but what makes you think you can acuse everyone of
>>lying?!
>
>It's not a case of lying but it is a very "leading question" Lockpicking
>looks "neat" and "easy" on the big screen but actually, it is not. Between
>the tools sometimes required and the knowledge to do the job which is
always
>required, It is an expensive art to learn and posess. Would you ask a
doctor
>to explain an appendectomy so that you may perform it yourself?...I think
>not...
>
>There are many people who come here and immediately want to know how to
pick
>locks. As professionals, we are not allowed (by law) to divulge this
>information but also...we are wary of anyone we don't know who comes to us
>with this request. It is actually a large responsibility we hold in order
to
>make you...the common person (not engaged in the trade) safer from the ones
>who would use it unscrupulously.
>
>>You aren't any better than anyone else!
>
>We are not in some ways but in matters of security we are the shield behind
>which your safety lies. Any one of us could make a fortune on a book titled
>"How to Defeat any Kind of Lock System" we could even sell a Series...a
>primer on lock picking...a primer on auto entry...a primer on defeating
>safes. How long we would remain outside of prison is another question.
>Locksmithing has been around for thousands of years and these secrets are
>still not commonly available...as tradesmen with ethics, locksmiths stand
>pretty damn high on the list.
>
Glenn Rickards
less than impressed in my last dealings with a locksmith who overlooked
obvious security problems that would permit relatively stealthy and
unobtrusive
entry and merely persisted in trying to sell a high security lock for a low
security
building. when the other security problems were pointed out (such as that
he would
have been installing the lock in a door covered with small window panes that
can (I know, I
broke one with a mop handle) be easily and fairly noiselessly broken, he
suggested I buy
a solid core door and he could transfer the lock to the new door once I got
it installed.
When I pointed out the long, skinny window on the othe side of the door jam,
he said
he didn't think anyone would break that to break in.
This problem, of course, is not unique to the field of locksmithing. It
extends to doctors (surgeons see a surgical solution to problems internists
may treat with medication), lawyers, and other professions and trades.
Glenn
Thom wrote in message <74nn13$s...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>>Hmm... I've been lurking around here for quite a while, just reading
>>messages and I have to admit that every time this particular thread
>>comes up, it irks me somewhat...
>
Glenn Rickards
"Keyman" wrote in message ...
Jay Hennigan
wrote:
:Hi, Keyman. What law?
Apparently, his mistaken concept of the law of supply and demand.
He wants to limit the supply of those with the knowledge and skills, perhaps
to increase his profits.
IMHO, he would be better off pointing out the flaws in inferior hardware,
and profit from the sale of better goods. The public would be more secure
as well.
--
Hacker: Any person who derives joy from discovering ways to circumvent
limitations. -- Bob Bickford
Thom
Unfortunately, there is about a thousand ways to skin a cat....when it comes
to security, the first concern of most locksmiths is the most obvious...the
lock
But then there is...
The Door itself
The Frame the Door is in
The Glass that is in the area of the door (or on the Door)
The Wall that the whole assembly is in...sometimes it's just easier to
walk through a couple sheets of sheetrock...
Alternate avenues of entry
Who are you trying to keep out....
This is just a partial list and though they may need asking...sometimes the
client is not ready to respond to the questions or the conversation could
really take some time. Most people want a $100.00 "fix" and feel if you try
to sell them Gates and Grills and an Alarm System and ...when the bill gets
into the $1,000's they kinda blank out, decide you're trying to take them
for everything they've got and
...."Uh, yeah...OK, so...how much was that cylinder?"
TOO MUCH INFORMATION...
It may be part of the job but it's usually not too well received...
- Thom
Thom
>I will have to disagree with you again, this Information will NOT make
>anyone rich. There are already books published on just about all aspects of
the Lock &
>Key Industry.
Awww, c'mon Keyman...
If you put out a book...in the bookstores, with the title of....
"How to break into any Security System" in really big, garish letters on the
cover
Do you mean to tell me, that you can't see a line of wanna be hoodlums
stretched around the block waiting to buy it? Especially if you included
nice pictures and explanations on "How to..."? Maybe using the "see spot
run...run spot, run" type of format would help too....
:-) Thom
I'd betcha but...I ain't gonna write it...
Jim West
dumped it cause it was to long, and you summarized it pretty well......Thank
you.....JW
Thom wrote in message <74pgi6$s...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
Thom
Actually, in some areas there actually are laws that protect against this.
It is actually illegal in some areas.
I think that there are actually laws that are referred to as "Fagen laws"
(as in Fagen from Oliver Twist) where the schooling of neophites to become
criminals is illegal. (unless you're the CIA or similar)
Could be wrong about the "Fagen Laws" though...
- Thom
Thom
>What law is this? What state? Does it apply only to registered
locksmiths?
I don't know enough to give you chapter and verse...
But if you read my posting elsewhere in this thread, I think that there are
"Fagen Laws" that cover many different aspects of tutoring the unscrupulous.
I do know that there are laws (in some states-NY for one) that specifically
prohibit the teaching of these skills and further, that the teacher can be
held liable for the actions of their unruly student (if it can be
established that the teacher knew...)
Yes. They are widely ignored, overlooked and scoffed at but...I don't ever
wear seatbelts but that doesn't mean it's not "against the law"
- Thom
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
Not quite. "Fagenry" usually refers to teaching minors to perform crimes on
your behalf -- the term is named after the character in Oliver Twist. If you
can show that they abused the skills on their own, or that they were
adults and hence bear full responsibility for their own actions, you're off
the hook on that one.
Not that this resolves the ethical questions of how much and of what kinds
you should teach to folks whom you don't personally know. There are things
I won't teach some of my relatives, said relatives not having the common
sense of a goldfish and being likely to get themselves into trouble by doing
something arguably legal but inappropriate.
------------------------------------------------------
Joe Kesselman, http://www.lovesong.com/people/keshlam/
Performing December 12th at Walkabout Clearwater: Bill Staines and
Nancy Tucker. http://www.lovesong.com/walkabout/coffeehouse.html
Ron Natalie
The problem with these books is that the idiots who write
them don't really know what they're doing either.
It's almost as laughable as the plans for a supposed
cable tv descrambler that keeps showing up in my mailbox.
(Which technically is illegal via federal law).
Terran Melconian
Nogami <nos...@atthisaddress.com> wrote:
>rekeyable padlocks and such. It's not what you'd call rocket science.
Now, now, you wouldn't want someone walking off with your rocket,
would you? I mean, you don't put a Kwikset on your launch vehicles,
or the Russian, er, I mean North Korean spies might get in. That just
wouldn't do.
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
>It's almost as laughable as the plans for a supposed
>cable tv descrambler that keeps showing up in my mailbox.
>(Which technically is illegal via federal law).
The usual approach those rip-offs use is that they actually do sell
you legitimate plans for a descrambler box -- which is legal -- but
don't provide the decryption chip. And since you can only get the
right chip from your cable company... They delivered what they promised,
but it still doesn't do you any good.
paul krause
Thom wrote in message <74js6h$h...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>The type of cylinder is an "Ace" (which is generic for the type of keyway)
>and the tools and skill required for you to open it are beyond anything you
>can reasonably expect to come up with. Save your time and aggravation and
>have it done correctly by a competent locksmith. He may even be able to
sell
>you keys afterward at a nominal fee.
>
Ace & Ace II are registered trademarks of the Chicago Lock Company. The
generic term for this type of lock is "tubular key lock". Have yourself a
nice
& profitable holiday season.
paul
Jay Hennigan
<kes...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
:The usual approach those rip-offs use is that they actually do sell
:you legitimate plans for a descrambler box -- which is legal -- but
:don't provide the decryption chip. And since you can only get the
:right chip from your cable company... They delivered what they promised,
:but it still doesn't do you any good.
Actually, most of these ripoffs sell you plans for a simple band-stop
notch filter. This actually worked at one time, and would descramble
a long-obsolete type of scrambling that injected interference within the
video passband.
ObLocksmithing: A similar concept in this forum would be the sale of
"universal master keys" in the form of skeleton keys that fit the old
mortise warded bit locks. A working compromise of a long-obsolete
system.
Dana Akey
> Re: how do i pick a coke machine lock.......
> Date:
> kes...@alum.mit.edu (Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam)
> Organization:
> Team OS/2, Novalabs Consulting
> Newsgroups:
> alt.locksmithing
> References:
> 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6
>
>
> In <36712EF0...@sensor.com>, Ron Natalie <r...@sensor.com> writes:
> >It's almost as laughable as the plans for a supposed
> >cable tv descrambler that keeps showing up in my mailbox.
> >(Which technically is illegal via federal law).
>
> you legitimate plans for a descrambler box -- which is legal -- but
> don't provide the decryption chip. And since you can only get the
> right chip from your cable company... They delivered what they promised,
> but it still doesn't do you any good.
>
> Joe Kesselman, http://www.lovesong.com/people/keshlam/
> Performing December 12th at Walkabout Clearwater: Bill Staines and
> Nancy Tucker. http://www.lovesong.com/walkabout/coffeehouse.html
Did you get the offer that would also send you the "very difficult to
find" variable capacitor?
I've seen the posts, and they offer the plans, or the plans plus the
capacitor for around $20.00 (i think)
Personally, I'd just go for the normal pay-t.v. box that you get from
the cable company. Beats the hell out of paying for plans that
might\might not work on your system. At least the cable company's box
will work. But that is just my two cents worth, after a long shift at
work. Agree or disagree, I respect your right to free speech. I also
respect my right to listen or ignore you, as I see fit.
Joe
***There are more things in heaven and earth...***
Ron Natalie
>
> The usual approach those rip-offs use is that they actually do sell
> you legitimate plans for a descrambler box -- which is legal -
Actually it isn't, the EPCA puts an embargo on even distributing
the information related to intercepting communciations.
- but
> don't provide the decryption chip. And since you can only get the
> right chip from your cable company... They delivered what they promised,
> but it still doesn't do you any good.
>
Actually, the one I keep getting won't work on any modern
cable system. It's just a filter. They haven't used those
kind of traps around here for ages. They switched over to
digitally controlled boxes because 1: Pay Per View is an
enormous chunk of revenue and 2, labor is money and it costs
money to send someone around to change the service much easier
to throw a little initial capital at the problem and then
control everything remotely.
Thom
>I won't teach some of my relatives, said relatives not having the common
>sense of a goldfish and being likely to get themselves into trouble by
doing
>something arguably legal but inappropriate.
I think I have some of your relatives in my family tree...couldja come and
get them?
- Thom
Thom
>generic term for this type of lock is "tubular key lock"
Uh, yeah Paul
Just like a"Crescent" wrench is generic for an adjustable...A Vice Grip is
gen for a locking plier...A Lufkin is gen for a folding ruler...a Channel
Lock is gen for water pump pliers...a Slim Jim is gen for most car opening
tools.
These are all Trademarked and Patented but...when I'm BSing with another
locksmith and we're talking about a tubular keyway we're as liable to refer
to it as an "ace" rather than try to remember "tubular keyway" or "lock".
The companies that have their Trademark become the accepted tradename are
usually Veeerrryyy happy manufacturers indeed!
- Thom
Happy Holidays
Matthew T. Russotto
}Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam wrote:
}>
}> The usual approach those rip-offs use is that they actually do sell
}> you legitimate plans for a descrambler box -- which is legal -
}
}Actually it isn't, the EPCA puts an embargo on even distributing
}the information related to intercepting communciations.
Congress lacks that authority.
--
Matthew T. Russotto russ...@pond.com
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue."
Wayne
Formica sued and won their case years ago. Just a thought. Wayne
Thom wrote in message <74vrc4$r...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
Jay Hennigan
:Just like a"Crescent" wrench is generic for an adjustable...A Vice Grip is
:gen for a locking plier...A Lufkin is gen for a folding ruler...a Channel
:Lock is gen for water pump pliers...a Slim Jim is gen for most car opening
:tools.
:
:The companies that have their Trademark become the accepted tradename are
:usually Veeerrryyy happy manufacturers indeed!
Usually not happy. The dilution of one's trademark makes advertising and
brand recognition worthless. The Bayer company, by not going after others
using their trade name "Aspirin", lost it. The folks at Kleenex and Coke
will be more than happy to correct anyone using their trademark generically,
using land-sharks to drive the point home if need be.
Ron Natalie
>
>
> }Actually it isn't, the EPCA puts an embargo on even distributing
> }the information related to intercepting communciations.
>
> Congress lacks that authority.
That's a nice assertion, but that's how the code reads.
Haven't seen any court challenges yet.
Ron Natalie
> Usually not happy. The dilution of one's trademark makes advertising and
> brand recognition worthless. The Bayer company, by not going after others
> using their trade name "Aspirin", lost it. The folks at Kleenex and Coke
> will be more than happy to correct anyone using their trademark generically,
> using land-sharks to drive the point home if need be.
>
The other amusing thing about Bayer Aspirin is that the
trademark Bayer for Aspirin is not owned by the any
pharmaceutical company named Bayer.
Robert Nichols
Thom <hdwma...@sworldnet.att.net> wrote:
:
:The companies that have their Trademark become the accepted tradename are
:usually Veeerrryyy happy manufacturers indeed!
No, they are not at all happy about that. If that name really does
become the generic or descriptive term used for the product, then the
name loses its trademark status. Once that status is lost, then any
company could, for example, market a photocopier and call it a "xerox
machine", sell adjustable wrenches with the name "crescent" on them,
call their high-security lock a "medeco", or sell acetylsalicylic acid
as a pain reliever and call it "aspirin". (Yes, you'll find a bunch of
companies selling "aspirin" in the United States. That's precisely
because Bayer Co. lost it's right to that trademark here when a
U.S. court determined that the name had become generic in use.
"Aspirin" remains an exclusive Bayer trademark in other parts of the
world.)
Publically misusing a trademarked name as a generic term for a product
stands a good chance of getting you a nasty note from the legal
department of the trademark owner. That note may strike you as overly
harsh, but a company stands to lose its trademark if it cannot
demonstrate vigorous defense against all cases of misuse that come
to its attention.
BTW, the trademark with perhaps the most legally enviable status in the
world is our old friend "WD-40". The product that bears that label
simply has no widely used generic name, and yet "WD-40" is cryptic
enough that it is highly unlikely that a court would ever rule that the
name was generic. Think about it. If you wanted to market a competing
product, what the heck would you call the stuff?
--
Bob Nichols rnic...@interaccess.com
Finger rnic...@cluster.interaccess.com for PGP public key.
PGP public key 1024/9A9C7955
Key fingerprint = 2F E5 82 F8 5D 06 A2 59 20 65 44 68 87 EC A7 D7
Xenophobe
know you could drill and replace and also what type of drill bit to
use....as for picking it really requires a special pick, but i have
picked an ace type lock(what yo have on the machine)before with standard
tools, good luck
Naynaydogg
>stands a good chance of getting you a nasty note from the legal
>department of the trademark owner. That note may strike you as overly
>harsh, but a company stands to lose its trademark if it cannot
>demonstrate vigorous defense against all cases of misuse that come
>to its attention.
So, in the given scenario....
Im outside somewhere, and a friend has a bottle of pepsi and a cup.
"Can you pour me some coke?"
"Sure!"
Lets say at that very moment the head of Pepsi walks by, and hears me use the
common trademark name. Would I get a "a nasty note from the legal department of
Pepsi?"
Grover
VVVVV...@aol.com
Joe Kesselman, yclept Keshlam
>"Can you pour me some coke?"
>"Sure!"
the Coka-cola company has folks on staff whose job is to go into
restaurants, order code, and if they're given Pepsi without an
"is Pepsi OK"... sue. Actually, they'll settle out of court, but the
point is that the ONLY way to retain ownership of a brandname
-- which is a valuable item, given how much money is invested
in building its public awareness/reputation -- is to actively defend
it against misuse.
Silly? Perhaps. But that's the way that law works, and nobody
ever required that law make sense.
Henry E Schaffer
>>generic term for this type of lock is "tubular key lock"
>
>Uh, yeah Paul
>
>gen for a locking plier...A Lufkin is gen for a folding ruler...a Channel
>Lock is gen for water pump pliers...a Slim Jim is gen for most car opening
>tools.
The "generic terms" are the ones given above without capital letters.
>These are all Trademarked and Patented but...when I'm BSing with another
patenting isn't relevant - but trademarking is -
>locksmith and we're talking about a tubular keyway we're as liable to refer
>to it as an "ace" rather than try to remember "tubular keyway" or "lock".
Sure - and we often say "Kleenex" instead of "facial tissue", and "Scotch"
tape instead of ...
>The companies that have their Trademark become the accepted tradename are
>usually Veeerrryyy happy manufacturers indeed!
They are usually very, very unhappy - because if their trademark slips
into being a generic term then they lose trademark protection - and
then anyone could sell clear adhesive tape and label it "Scotch Tape",
etc., and that's why these companies pay lawyers to write nasty letters.
--
--henry schaffer
h...@ncsu.edu