Master keying
Dan G.
About 50 locks schlage keyway 5 pin.
Anyone has an idea for the cuts for the masterkey? I was thinking of
22666.
will that work?
Stormin Mormon
cuts near the tip, a worn key in a worn lock might slip out
while the plug is turned. Code like 22662 would give you
less trouble.
Are you using the Schlage master key chart, or you going to
use Hold and Vary, to cut down on interchanges, and pins
used?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Dan G." <goldilock...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6316752b-2c0a-46f6...@o14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Evan
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> That could work, but it's far too simple. With the deeper
> cuts near the tip, a worn key in a worn lock might slip out
> while the plug is turned. Code like 22662 would give you
> less trouble.
>
> Are you using the Schlage master key chart, or you going to
> use Hold and Vary, to cut down on interchanges, and pins
> used?
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
A top master key of 22662 is still far too simple, and since
all of the bittings are even depths you would end up with
too many unusable bittings in the change key array with
most of the locks being very easy to comb...
Schlage locks require a two-step progression when being
properly master keyed so that would mean that the OP
would only ever be able to use even depths in his system...
I recommend that he introduce parity to the bitting so that
none of the resulting possible keys would be the same
bitting (i.e. 00000, 22222, 44444, 66666, 88888) straight
across which would happen if you used the master key
22662... Aternating odd and even bitting depths in a
pattern like this: ( OEOEO or EOEOE ) is better and
allows for the TMK to follow the seven guidelines for
selecting a master key bitting...
A properly chosen top master key bitting shall:
1. Have at least one of the deepest possible depths of cut.
2. Have at least one of the shallowest possible depths of cut.
3. Not be a declining step key.
4. Not be a straight line key.
5. Not have the deepest cut at the bow of the key.
6. Not have the shallowest cut at the tip of the key.
7. Observe all other rules for the cylinders it will operate.
Given all of those guidelines a much better master key
bitting would be: 30549
That being said this system sounds a lot like it is going
to be using the Schlage C keyway as the OP said it is
only 5 pins... The OP is recommended to spend the
extra money and use one of the 6 pin Everest keyways
so that the chances that some random stray key won't
operate any of the locks are greatly reduced...
~~ Evan
P.S. Not many people refer to "Rotating Constant" as
"Hold and Vary" anymore...
Evan
> I got an idiot builder that I am now dealing with his stupidity..
> the MK is 44444
>
> over 75 doors..
>
> Oh, did I mention, when I got into the mess no one had a copy of what
> was used, much less where in the system.. GRRRRR
> --Shiva--
Clearly whoever planned and executed that master key system was
grossly unqualified to do so...
~~ Evan
Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras
>I got an idiot builder that I am now dealing with his stupidity..
> the MK is 44444
>
>over 75 doors..
In Germany there is a large and well known lock manufacturer that used
to have MK cuts like 223336 (thousands of locks, IT infrastructure
access) or 2626262 (thousands of locks, public transportation
services) or 44566 (hundreds of locks, big stadium). His reputation
still is that they build secure and good locks, but it seems this
reputation mainly comes from the high allowed tolerances, allowing
locks and keys survive for decades. One of the three mentioned
installations is still in use.
-ras
--
Ralph A. Schmid
http://www.dk5ras.de/ http://www.db0fue.de/
http://www.bclog.de/
Evan
wrote:
When a system is designed by a lock manufacturer for one large
client it often times will be on a special keyway only made available
to that client at the factory level...
There are single-step progression keying systems out there, but
in the case of this thread the OP said that he was working on
Schlage locks which require two-step progression...
~~ Evan
Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras
>When a system is designed by a lock manufacturer for one large
>client it often times will be on a special keyway only made available
>to that client at the factory level...
Customer keyways are not common here in Germany, but anyway the
keyways are restricted and blanks are never ever leaving the factory.
Still it is not very difficult to modify another blank by milling it
down to fit.
>There are single-step progression keying systems out there, but
>in the case of this thread the OP said that he was working on
>Schlage locks which require two-step progression...
I researched two of similar to the mentioned systems, one changed from
key to key like cut 1 one step deeper, cut two one step higher, next
cut two deeper, cut three higher, and so one. The other system had no
obvious system from change key to change key.
-ras
--
Ralph A. Schmid
http://www.dk5ras.de/ http://www.db0fue.de/
http://www.bclog.de/
Jay Hennigan
> A properly chosen top master key bitting shall:
>
> 1. Have at least one of the deepest possible depths of cut.
> 2. Have at least one of the shallowest possible depths of cut.
> 3. Not be a declining step key.
> 4. Not be a straight line key.
> 5. Not have the deepest cut at the bow of the key.
> 6. Not have the shallowest cut at the tip of the key.
> 7. Observe all other rules for the cylinders it will operate.
I agree with most of the above. Rule 5 I would assume is to reduce the
incidence of broken keys due to the weakness of a deep cut near the bow.
What's the rationale for not having the shallowest cut at the tip? I
like a shallow cut at the tip for a couple of reasons:
1. Makes it difficult to manipulate a pick to raise the farthest pin
without interfering with nearer pins.
2. In a 6-pin system, ensures that a 5-pin key won't be usable for key
picking, bumping, or a ghost key.
Evan
You don't want the shallowest cut towards the tip (for Schlage this
would
be either a 0 cut or a 1 cut) because of all the wear on the keys and
the
pins in the cylinders every time you use such a master key all of the
pins
in the lock would be lifted all of the way up... This will wear out
the pins,
they keys and the springs much faster than necessary...
If you are that concerned about stray 5-pin keys being able to effect
a
6-pin system you are designing and installing, its time to convince
the
client to replace the cylinders with ones which are a less common
keyway for the area in which the facility is located...
There is no excuse for creating keying systems for Schlage C keyways
as they have NO chance of being secure right from the beginning, as
there is ZERO key control and way too many stray keys out there which
could operate the locks... As the locksmith you are trying to sell
your
client a keying system which would be able to survive the typical 15
year
lifespan while being able to handle both the required amount of
expansion
or turnover while also providing some amount of key control...
A master key system is a large investment for most facilities, selling
a
product which can be compromised right out of the box without much
difficulty is not good customer service... How many properly
administered
keying systems do you come across when you are designing and
installing new ones ? A few here and there which are using some
patented
keyways which the facility owner can limit key duplication to one
locksmith
but otherwise without institutional locksmiths maintaining something
in-house the typical system quickly becomes compromised because of
a lack of being able to account for all of the keys for the system...
You would do more for your customers to teach them the methods for
maintaining positive control over key duplication and how to be able
to
account for individual keys issued to specific people in their system
by
introducing serialized keys where each key issued has a unique number
stamped on it in addition to the SKCS symbol assigned to it...
~~ Evan
Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras
>A master key system is a large investment for most facilities, selling
>a
>product which can be compromised right out of the box without much
>difficulty is not good customer service... How many properly
>administered
>keying systems do you come across when you are designing and
>installing new ones ? A few here and there which are using some
>patented
>keyways which the facility owner can limit key duplication to one
>locksmith
This is very interesting. In Germany almost all larger systems come
from the lock manufacturer, the locksmith does the planning, but the
locks and keys come from the manufacturer, and in most cases even the
locksmith has no access to blanks. Can't imagine a more secure system.
>but otherwise without institutional locksmiths maintaining something
>in-house the typical system quickly becomes compromised because of
>a lack of being able to account for all of the keys for the system...
Always the same problem...key get lost all the time. More and more I
see the expensive combination systems, with a mechanical key and a
RFID tag hidden in the key as second element. When a key is lost, you
just block it in all cylinders. The initial costs are two or three
times of a conventional system, but you win after the very first lost
important key.
Evan
wrote:
"Very Important Keys" shouldn't ever be leaving the facility for
which they operate...
Imagine how many millions it would cost to do a campus wide
re-lock at a College or University if a ring of campus grandmaster
keys went missing... This is why facilities and security people
check out a "duty ring" of keys to use during the working day
and check them back in before leaving the campus for any
reason...
With proper key control policies in place you should never
LOSE a "Very Important Key"... Taking precautions to have
a suitable and proper location at your facility to secure key
rings will reduce your chances of losing important keys or
key rings compared to allowing employees to take them
home every day -- your facility keys would be spending
more time away from the building and you would therefore
require MORE of them than you would if employees on
shift were sharing sets of common keys amongst the
group...
Having a "key room" with key rings that check in and out
rather than going home with employees also simplifies
lock changes when they occur, as critical employees who
require facility wide access can have their key rings updated
at one time and place rather than having to seek out new
keys individually from the person in charge of keys...
Such a situation allows for much more accurate accountability
and accounting for the keys in use...
~~ Evan
Stormin Mormon
But an apartment complex near me had about 300 units, with a
sub master for three sections. The system was set up with a
MK, three SMK, then the various units. They only wanted one
MK or two in case it got lost. But, I noticed that the staff
people all carried all three SMK keys. So, what's the
advantage, there?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<m...@notanywhere.net>
wrote in message
news:3dumi69idh2h3i4jr...@4ax.com...
Local university had a 20 story apt building. each floor
had that
Resident Assistants key able to open all the doors EXCEPT
the janitors
closet on one floor only.. janitors key opened all the
students room
doors on each floor..(20 master keys)
Maintenance opened almost everything.. and there was a top
level
master that opened EVERY lock in the building. Guess which
key they
lost???
$46,000 for new lock cores and 6 hours installing and
giving out
keys.
--Shiva--
Stormin Mormon
smith tells of a time when one of the guys (security,
I think) dropped a ring of keys. They spent hours
searching the area, the keys never showed up.
Howver, a LOT of stuff got stolen out of student
rooms in the days, weeks, months, after that.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Evan" <evan.ne...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:aab52f71-4243-40ee...@s9g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
Evan
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> One college I helped rekey. The on campus lock-
> smith tells of a time when one of the guys (security,
> I think) dropped a ring of keys. They spent hours
> searching the area, the keys never showed up.
>
> Howver, a LOT of stuff got stolen out of student
> rooms in the days, weeks, months, after that.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
Right... A missing ring of campus grandmaster keys at a
college is grounds for an immediate corporate re-lock of the
entire campus...
That college was lucky that it was only burglaries that happened
when the set of keys went missing... Imagine the costs involved
in settling out assaults or rapes...
This is why such institutional facilities are rather anal about just
who can have certain keys and why it takes approval from high
up the food chain to obtain such keys... Risk Management...
~~ Evan
Evan
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Didn't have to do the total rekey. That's a bit of a PIA.
>
> But an apartment complex near me had about 300 units, with a
> sub master for three sections. The system was set up with a
> MK, three SMK, then the various units. They only wanted one
> MK or two in case it got lost. But, I noticed that the staff
> people all carried all three SMK keys. So, what's the
> advantage, there?
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
The term "sub master key" is not used until you have very
very large systems with six levels of master keys in them...
That system at the apartment complex sounds like a small
grandmaster (three level) system with three master key
groups in it...
Sometimes apartment complexes can be served by several
master keys even within the same building... If it requires
six master keys to open every door in the complex no one
individual can compromise the entire complex unless they
steal a set of keys from an employee...
It is always preferable when possible to have several smaller
master key systems as opposed to one larger more complex
master key system...
~~ Evan
Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras
>"Very Important Keys" shouldn't ever be leaving the facility for
>which they operate...
>
>Imagine how many millions it would cost to do a campus wide
>re-lock at a College or University if a ring of campus grandmaster
>keys went missing... This is why facilities and security people
>check out a "duty ring" of keys to use during the working day
>and check them back in before leaving the campus for any
>reason...
We all know this; but many people don't, and even those who do may get
careless over the years, "when nothing ever went wrong".
-ras
--
Ralph A. Schmid
http://www.dk5ras.de/ http://www.db0fue.de/
http://www.bclog.de/
Stormin Mormon
A submaster is a key which works fewer locks than the
master. Which key also has change keys "under" it, that work
fewer keys than the submaster.
A master key system using a submaster requires only
three levels, which this one did have.
The term "grand master" is used when there are four
levels (grand master, master, submaster, and change.)
--
Locksmith.
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Evan" <evan.ne...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2ede58cd-e29d-4d07...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Stormin Mormon
wish to abuse keys will also make all kinds of effort to get
keys. A person who wishes to abuse keys will also do other
illegal or against the rules activities.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Ralph A. Schmid, dk5ras" <ra...@radio-link.net> wrote in
message news:qtvni6pe6f9ck6oe5...@4ax.com...
>"Very Important Keys" shouldn't ever be leaving the
>facility for
>which they operate...
>
Evan
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear College Student,
> A submaster is a key which works fewer locks than the
> master. Which key also has change keys "under" it, that work
> fewer keys than the submaster.
> A master key system using a submaster requires only
> three levels, which this one did have.
> The term "grand master" is used when there are four
> levels (grand master, master, submaster, and change.)
>
> --
> Locksmith.
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
Stormin:
You are quite *incorrect* in your examples given
above... You are somehow incorporating
incidental master keys as an actual level of key
in the system when they are not in fact real
keys in the system... Calling a block master,
row master, horizontal group master, vertical group
master or page master key in the standard progression
format method doesn't make it a sub master key
in your system... You are using "ghost keys" in
a manner to create a level of keying which does
not exist in the proper system, making use of key
interchange in this way does not create an additional
level of keying... You are also using the wrong
terminology to identify both the keys and the
levels of keying... There is an industry standard
which has been adopted for just this situation...
It seems like your experience has been incomplete,
in that you have never properly learned the SKCS
(Standard Key Coding System) rules or the specs
on "levels of keying" which are as follows:
level of keying / (key name) / abbreviation: / key symbol
Two Level System --
level II (Master Key) MK: AA
level I (Change Key) CK: 1AA, 2AA
Three Level System --
level III (Grand Master) GMK: A
level II (Master Key) MK: AA, AB
level I (Change Key) CK: AA-1, AA-2
Four Level System --
level IV (Great Grand Master) GGMK: GGMK
level III (Grand Master) GMK: A, B
level II (Master Key) MK: AA, AB
level I (Change Key) CK: AA-1, AA-2
Five Level System --
level V (Great Great Grand) GGGMK: GGGMK
level IV (Great Grand Master) GGMK: A, B
level III (Grand Master) GMK: AA, AB
level II (Master Key) MK: AAA, AAB
level I (Change Key) CK: AAA-1, AAA-2
Six Level System --
level VI (Great Great Grand) GGGMK: GGGMK
level V (Great Grand Master) GGMK: A, B
level IV (Grand Master) GMK: AA, AB
level III (Master Key) MK: AAA, AAB
level II (Sub-Master) SMK: AAAA, AAAB
level I (Change Key) CK: AAAA-1, AAAA-2
~~ Evan
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Evan" <evan.ne...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:57e1058e-58a8-4076...@v12g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
Evan
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for expanding a bit more on your errors.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
If you would like to explain your method in detail so that the actual
experts on the subject matter who occasionally read the threads in
this newsgroup can discuss your way of creating a master key system
and explain where you are making your mistakes that would be great,
you could learn the real way of making a proper master key system
according to the standards that lock manufacturers use...
I am fairly accomplished at master keying having learned from
reading the bibles written by the world recognized experts on
the field (from whose books the chart in my last post was taken)
namely:
Master Keying by the numbers by: Billy B. Edwards, Jr. CML and
Fundamentals of Master Keying by: Jerome V. Andrews, CML...
Since they are published authors on the subject and they both
agree on the definitions as to what constitutes a master key
system as well as how they are described by the SKCS, I am
going to defer to their wisdom and assume that you were either
never properly taught on the subject or didn't think it was important
to learn...
Yeah, I am definitely going to stand by that position/interpretation
on the issue at hand here until you dazzle us all with a thoroughly
detailed accounting of how to do it your correct way...
Especially given your "skill level" in recommending a potential
selection for a TMK bitting as the second post in this thread...
~~ Evan
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Evan" <evan.ne...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:a6fb3ffa-dc60-4633...@v12g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
Evan
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> No need. I work for money, not for your ammusement. Harumph.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
<translation>
USENET Translation(s) of the above:
"Evan knows more about master keying than I do, only I am not
willing to admit to that to anyone, myself included."
"I am unable to correctly explain how to create a master key
system using the method(s) I *think* are correct, so I am not
even going to try, even though I have told someone who has
correctly explained the industry standard SKCS to me that he
and that method are flat out wrong."
</translation>
So Stormin, which is it ? I think it is some of both...
You have some rather out there views, and I am not disputing
that you seem to know a bit about a lot of things, but this is
one of the aspects of locksmithing of which you have a piss
poor knowledge of... Can't you just be honest about that ?
Most of your postings in other newsgroups are rather
amusing and entertaining rather than being much of
any information... Other than your obsessive plugging of
Harbor Freight products, are you a salesman for them or
something ?
~~ Evan
Evan
> A submaster is a key which works fewer locks than the
> master. Which key also has change keys "under" it, that work
> fewer keys than the submaster.
> A master key system using a submaster requires only
> three levels, which this one did have.
> The term "grand master" is used when there are four
> levels (grand master, master, submaster, and change.)
>
> --
> Locksmith.
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
Umm... No, that is not how a "submaster key" is
defined... I provided the correct definition of what
a submaster key is, it is the second level of keying
in a Level VI great great grand master keying system...
In a properly designed master keying system the keys
which you describe as "submasters" would be eliminated
from the key bitting array as incidental master keys or
"ghost keys" or "phantom keys" whatever term you want
to refer to them by...
Also, a "change key" never operates more than one
lock/group of locks keyed alike to the same SKCS
symbol unless it has been intentionally cross keyed
to operate... By saying a "submaster key" is "under"
a master key and opens less keys than the master
key and has "change keys" under the "submasters"
which operate even fewer locks indicates to me that
you have incorrectly identified incidental master keys
as a legitimate level of keying when they are not...
You clearly lack a proper understanding of the
industry standards for master keying... You should
brush up on them to improve your skills... The
SKCS has only been around since the early 1960's
when it was developed by Corbin-Russwin and was
a closely guarded sales tool until it was first published
in 1965 by the Door and Hardware Institute...
Therefore there is NO reason for you to not fully
understand and follow such a standard which has
been known to the trade for just over 45 years...
The technical caliber of your responses in this
thread leads me to believe that you should not
be specifying or installing master key systems
until you are properly retrained in the standards...
~~ Evan
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Evan" <evan.ne...@earthlink.net>
wrote in message
news:6c40dff3-1cfc-4eb9...@f2g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
Evan
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Your complete lack of understanding has risen to new levels.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
> wrote in messagenews:6c40dff3-1cfc-4eb9...@f2g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
>
> The technical caliber of your responses in this
> thread leads me to believe that you should not
> be specifying or installing master key systems
> until you are properly retrained in the standards...
>
> ~~ Evan
Complete lack of understanding ?
You are unable to properly explain your method of master keying...
You continue to assert that the mutually agreed upon industry
standard way of defining master key systems is wrong and then
you refuse to explain and define your method using industry terms
and then say *I* don't understand...
ROFL...
You are way out there man, your cute shit in the home repair
group and some of the stuff you post here which is meant to be
humorous might be starting to show that you are way past your
expiration date in the trades...
I hope you get whatever medication you need to get things back
under control or your relatives find the right sort of old age home
to place you in for your own safety as well as everyone else's...
~~ Evan
rrich...@gmail.com
stormin appears to like 'puffing out his chest'...
simply put, in one definition, masterkeying is the
organized destruction of security. mitigated to a
variable degree with restricted keyways and high-
security dual locking principles (or equivalent)
keys...@gmail.com
> I have a project master keying locks for a new apartment building.
> About 50 locks schlage keyway 5 pin.
> Anyone has an idea for the cuts for the masterkey? I was thinking of
> 22666.
> will that work?
NO! you should not use all even or all odd cuts for your master key, you'll have all kinds of problems.
http://masterkeypro.com/
Stormin Mormon
Probably all the locks fell apart in
2012.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
peterwn
>
> Local university had a 20 story apt building. each floor
> had that
> Resident Assistants key able to open all the doors EXCEPT
> the janitors
> closet on one floor only.. janitors key opened all the
> students room
> doors on each floor..(20 master keys)
> Maintenance opened almost everything.. and there was a top
> level
> master that opened EVERY lock in the building. Guess which
> key they
> lost???
>
> $46,000 for new lock cores and 6 hours installing and
> giving out
> keys.
>
> --Shiva--
Australian Lock (Bilock makers) produce a 'Galaxy' system which is in effect tri-centric cylinders, but all contained within a half inch plug - key looks like a tubular key, and cylinder has 'Bramah' like sliders but with important differences. The 'post' is removable and has three sets of holes for the three 'different' keys. All usual types made - round screw-in, Euro, Australian oval, Schlage and other key in knob etc.
In this re-key case, a new set of posts would have been prepared by a franchised locksmith using a combined computer controlled post driller / key cutter - for a new top masterkey but the same lower level masters and change key. The posts would then be replaced without any need to remove cylinders or re-issue change or lower level master keys. Changing the post is virtually as easy as changing a Best type core. Conversely if a change key is lost, the next available code can be used regardless of what masterkeys fit the cylinder.
This system could tilt things in favour of continuing to use mechanical locks instead of electronic locking for the likes of university accommodation rooms.
Jay Hennigan
> .. and there was a top level master that opened EVERY lock in the building. Guess which
> key they lost???
students that uses mechanical locks doesn't need to lose a key to be
concerned.
Creative college students + milling machine (or 3D printer these days) +
a few minutes with a sample of unattended locks = game over.
> Yale used to make 'bicentric' cylinders and the master plug could be re-keyed without having to touch the 'change' plug or re-issue change keys.
> Australian Lock (Bilock makers) produce a 'Galaxy' system which is in effect tri-centric cylinders, but all contained within a half inch plug - key looks like a tubular key, and cylinder has 'Bramah' like sliders but with important differences. The 'post' is removable and has three sets of holes for the three 'different' keys. All usual types made - round screw-in, Euro, Australian oval, Schlage and other key in knob etc.
> This system could tilt things in favour of continuing to use mechanical locks instead of electronic locking for the likes of university accommodation rooms.
drsub...@gmail.com
> That could work, but it's far too simple. With the deeper
> cuts near the tip, a worn key in a worn lock might slip out
> while the plug is turned. Code like 22662 would give you
> less trouble.
>
> Are you using the Schlage master key chart, or you going to
> use Hold and Vary, to cut down on interchanges, and pins
> used?
> "Dan G." <goldilock...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6316752b-2c0a-46f6...@o14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> building.
> About 50 locks schlage keyway 5 pin.
> Anyone has an idea for the cuts for the masterkey? I was
> thinking of
> 22666.
> will that work?
Stormin Mormon
of any thing.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
. www.lds.org
.
.