Foley-Belsaw key machine problem

[Vince Dean]

Perhaps someone can help me with a question about the key
machine I received with the Foley-Belsaw correspondence course.

I know this is not a high-precision machine. For $200, what
can I expect? However, I did expect that with careful use
I could make workable copies or cut keys by code. Now, I'm
not so sure.

I'm having trouble clamping the key or blank reliably, and
repeatably, in the vises. One jaw of each vise is a pretty
solid aluminum casting, but the opposite jaw is made from
an aluminum extrusion which is more flexible. When I clamp
the blank in the vise, this jaw flexes and lifts the blank
away from the back of the vise, changing the depth of cut.

I've watched in horror as the blank rose maybe 0.01 inches
as I tightened the clamp. This offset does not seem to be
repeatable, so I can't cut two keys the same. If I leave
the clamp looser, the blank comes out altogether and the
cutter throws it in my face.

I've tried this on Kwikset blanks, which have a simple,
rectangular shape on the bottom. I don't think this is a
hard-to-clamp blank.

So, has anyone had these same problems? And has anyone
solved them? Is it worth trying to make this thing work?

Thanks for the help.

Regards,
Vince

--
Vince Dean
Software Engineer
230 S. Cleveland Ave. (303)665-4688
Louisville, CO 80027 vd...@csn.org

[stuart meyer]

In article <4ubdri$a...@news-2.csn.net>, vd...@csn.net says...

Due to the price range i have several model 200 machines from foley
belsaw, i use them daily to cut well over 25-50 accurate code cuts for
my customers, the jaws are not really that bad, even a $1500. framon
will do the same thing, keeping a sharp blade is very important,
clamping keys on the most even parts will help out a lot (watch out
for worn out nissan blanks, they'll shoot like a .357 .
i have learned to take my time when code cutting and duplicating
on this machine, i ALWAYS keep my left index finger firm against the
end if the blank being cut, it will reduce vibration and you will feel
them slip before you see them, just dont go to far and cut your
fingers, if you do a lot of copying invest in a speedex duplicator,
around 300 new and pretty darn accurate without as much slippage, use
the belsaw just for code cuts. Yes the belsaw will code cut very
accuratly, you will have to really get used to it though, know your
machine. my belsaw brought me over $40,000 last year using it
professionaly on the job, i do nothing but cars, and make keys for a
truck load of them daily, dont give up.

[Bill Nelson]

Vince Dean (vd...@csn.net) wrote:

: I'm having trouble clamping the key or blank reliably, and

: repeatably, in the vises. One jaw of each vise is a pretty
: solid aluminum casting, but the opposite jaw is made from
: an aluminum extrusion which is more flexible. When I clamp
: the blank in the vise, this jaw flexes and lifts the blank
: away from the back of the vise, changing the depth of cut.

: I've watched in horror as the blank rose maybe 0.01 inches
: as I tightened the clamp. This offset does not seem to be
: repeatable, so I can't cut two keys the same. If I leave
: the clamp looser, the blank comes out altogether and the
: cutter throws it in my face.

I never had any such problem with mine - before I got a better
machine.

I can only think of three possible causes. One, the "U" clamp may
be bent - and somehow forcing the blank out of position. The second
possibility is a burr or debris on the clamping surface, causing
the same problem. Third, the "U" clamp may be too tall. It should
not quite reach the clamping surface, when tightened down without
any key blank inserted.

Bill

[Joe Kesselman]

Vince Dean (vd...@csn.net) wrote:
>: I'm having trouble clamping the key or blank reliably

>: I've watched in horror as the blank rose maybe 0.01 inches

I haven't had that problem either, unless I overtighten the vise.
(Yes, I too have an old F/B machine on the shelf -- it's a cheapie,
but it works, and the micrometer lets you easily set it to cut a bit
higher or lower when you're trying to compensate for wear.)

Remember, some keyways will not sit flat in the vise when clamped.
F/B's manual points out that you will sometimes have to shim the blank
to keep it from rotating as pressure is applied. Higher-priced machines
sometimes have multisided jaws which will handle a wider variety of
keyways without this kind of fiddling around.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph J. Kesselman http://pages.prodigy.com/keshlam/
"This note is a production of Novalabs Consulting, which is solely
responsible for its content. Opinions not necessarily those of IBM."

[Bigo...@aol.com]

Mr Dean My name is Charles Stuart, Do you know who makes the model 200 for Foley Belsaw>? I can be reached at 1718 339 2640 or my email is Bigo...@aol.com

[Jay Hennigan]

On 12/13/15 8:37 PM, Bigo...@aol.com wrote:
> Mr Dean My name is Charles Stuart, Do you know who makes the model 200 for Foley Belsaw>? I can be reached at 1718 339 2640 or my email is Bigo...@aol.com

I'm not sure who Mr. Dean is, but you've replied to a newsgroup. To the
best of my knowledge the Foley-Belsaw key machines are made by
Foley-Belsaw or if made under contract aren't available anywhere else.
They do have a listing of repair parts as well as the complete machines
on their website https://shop-foley-belsaw.com/foley/12.cat .

For what it's worth the machines are in my opinion mediocre performers
with rather poor build quality particularly with regard to the key
clamps and jaws. They serve their purpose as a training tool or for
occasional or hobby use but aren't up to the task of day-to-day service
in a conventional locksmith shop environment. It's not worth putting a
lot of time or money into repairs vs. buying a higher quality machine.

[Radl...@hotmail.com]

Ditto what Jay said. I took the Foley Belsaw course back in the 'ninties when I managed the security for a large property developer, and the key machine they sent me was minimally suitable for the task of duplicating. I never tried using it for code cutting because the tolerances were not tight enough for precision work, IMO. I did find a terrific deal on this newsgroup, though. Someone, not a locksmith, had inherited an HPC 1200CM and offered it for sale. I snapped it up for $200 and used it until I retired, at which point it was given to me by my employer because he knew I'd like to piddle around with locks for the rest of my life. Keep an eye on this group; maybe you'll fall into a deal like I did.

[Evan]

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 6:12:43 PM UTC-5, Jay Hennigan wrote:

Jay:

Charles was replying to a newsgroup posting from August 1996. I have heard of Necro-posting before but adding a reply to a topic from 19 years ago has to be some sort of record.

~~ Evan

[Stormin Mormon]

On 12/17/2015 8:39 PM, Evan wrote:
>
> Jay:
>
> Charles was replying to a newsgroup posting from August 1996. I have heard of Necro-posting before but adding a reply to a topic from 19 years ago has to be some sort of record.
>
> ~~ Evan
>

Can you master key, using necro wafers?

--
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

[canal...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 6:12:43 PM UTC-5, Jay Hennigan wrote:

How do I join the group? Interested in getting into Key Cutting/Locksmith even though I believe my state requires a 3 year apprenticeship plus a passing certificate from a school. Thinking of buying into Foley-Belsaw course. If I made $40,000 that Dean mentions, minus the equipment, i'd make a great profit.

[ScreenPrintR]

Okay I think I'm in as a Member. Where do I post to introduce myself.

[Jay Hennigan]

On 4/26/16 3:04 PM, canal...@gmail.com wrote:

> How do I join the group? Interested in getting into Key Cutting/Locksmith even though I believe my state requires a 3 year apprenticeship plus a passing certificate from a school. Thinking of buying into Foley-Belsaw course. If I made $40,000 that Dean mentions, minus the equipment, i'd make a great profit.

It's USENET. There's no need to join.

Which state?

Foley-Belsaw has been around forever. Express interest in the course but
don't buy it right away. Over the next several weeks you'll get offers
at discounts that increase over time. You should be able to get it for
about half price.

A lot of newer technology not covered but it gives you the basics to
maybe get hired at a lock shop if you're good.