Replacing Safe Handle?
Doug White
firearms in a number of large safes they've obtained surplus over the
years. The biggest is a two door Meilink safe that is probably 40 or 50
years old. Unfortunately, the cast handle on the combination dial side
got bashed at some point, and the main lever broke off. There is just a
short stub left. It's useable but just barely.
I contacted Fireking, who owns Meilink now. They _think_ they have a
replacement handle that will fit. Before I order it, I wanted to see if
anyone had any warnings or words of wisdom on what might be involved in
replacing it. The inner labels mention a relocker. I've only recently
obtained a "clutch head" screwdriver to remove the inner dust cover
panel, so I haven't had a chance to look inside the door yet.
First, am I likely to have any issues with removing the inner door cover?
I assume not, but that is a good way to get myself into trouble. For
example, if it has a glass relocker, is it probably sturdy enough that I
don't have to be super cautious working inside the door? I haven't been
able to find any pictures that show if they are typically exposed on the
inside, if they are big enough to protect the entire door or just lock
area, etc.
Once I get the inner cover off, the handle presumably has a
square/splined/keyed shaft (or similar) that drives a cam to operate the
locking mechanism. There must be a nut/pin that prevents the handle from
being pulled out the front that will have to be removed. Does anyone
know how the cam is likely to be attached, and /or how the handle might
be removed & replaced? Should I bring a supply of big cotter pins to the
party?
Basically, I'm looking for anything odd I should watch out for. If
something goes wrong in the process and we can't relock the safe, we will
have a small fortune in target pistols we will have to find a secure home
for in a hurry. We get next to no finacial support from the university,
and hiring a pro is out of our budget. As it is, I will be buying the
handle out of pocket.
The alternative is for me to mill a pocket into a steel bar that can be
attached over the remaining stub. Not as elegant, not as interesting,
but much less risky.
Thanks!
Doug White
Stormin Mormon
picking guide, and you can't find some brainiacs to help?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Doug White" <gwh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns9E79CD5C9A44C...@69.16.186.50...
Evan
Umm... Where to begin with this...
Clearly you are not as "assistant to the coach" as you think you
are, as your name is not listed anywhere in any MIT directory as
a staff member... So you should notify the legitimate coach of
the Pistol Team, who can contact someone in the Athletics
Department who can approve a request by that person for the
required repairs and fill out a facilities work order request on the
SAPweb system at MIT...
Repairing any locks used by MIT is a function of the MIT Dept.
of Facilities... It seems that you are just not high enough up
in the food chain to have received any training in that subject
area which leads me to think that your ability to direct the
expenditure of any University funds is very limited if it exists
at all...
You should ask who in your department is authorized to
direct the spending of your allocated maintenance and
repair funds and you can explain the requirements to that
person whom can help you contact the Security & Emergency
Management Office within the Dept. of Facilities to see
to your specific repair needs and arrange the work request...
As far as "hiring a pro" all of the pros in that area have
knowledge that no one but the SEMO office at MIT is
authorized to direct lock repairs at or on MIT owned
property... If your opinion on your current status of
"we get next to no financial support from the university"
is such a concern you would want to make sure you
follow official channels on effecting your repairs rather
than suffer an even greater expense if you do it
yourself improperly and lock yourself out of the
container in question...
It sounds more to me like you a well intentioned
alumni who is a "helper" who never learned how
the army of people whose job it is to make MIT
function behind the scenes works... Add to that
a lack of knowledge of the hierarchy of the
Athletic Department (under whose jurisdiction
and cost centers any repairs to equipment and
facilities would be) and the end result is a
hilarious post to a UseNet newsgroup like the
one you have made...
Find out who the right people to ask are and
ask those people to direct the needed repairs
to protect MIT from any issues which would
result from improper storage of firearms...
I am quite certain that if you had an emergency
as far as where to store your "fortune in target
pistols" that someone within the MIT Police
Department would be able to arrange some
kind of temporary solution on an emergency
basis to store the firearms properly...
~~ Evan
Doug White
news:8996812b-75b7-4f40...@n18g2000vbq.googlegroups.com:
<snip>
>
> Umm... Where to begin with this...
>
> Clearly you are not as "assistant to the coach" as you think you
> are, as your name is not listed anywhere in any MIT directory as
> a staff member... So you should notify the legitimate coach of
> the Pistol Team, who can contact someone in the Athletics
> Department who can approve a request by that person for the
> required repairs and fill out a facilities work order request on the
> SAPweb system at MIT...
For someone who thinks he knows so much, you are pretty clueless.
The varsity pistol team was downgraded to a "Club Sport" almost two years
ago. MIT has no paid pistol coach, and the team and all of it's
equipment are largely orphaned. All of the coaches are volunteers, and
MIT gives us a couple of $K to operate a team that requires over $20k a
year for ammo, targets, and trips to away matches. All of the remaining
funds come from alumni. I'm not MIT staff because MIT has no staff to
support the team. There is a paid Range Master & PE Instructor, but he
has very little to do with teams. The last Coach "retired" (quit)
because they kept nickle & diming him to death.
I've been affiliated with the MIT Pitol team for over 40 years in one way
or another. Going through official channels as you suggest has always
been the last resort, because it is usually unsuccessful. If MIT cared
one iota about the pistol team, they wouldn't have dropped its varsity
status. The facility and the team still exist and are successful
primarily through the efforts & donations of volunteers & alumni. We
have performed over $100K worth of work, upgrades & equipment purchases
over decades while MIT plead poverty & cut the budget.
The safe handle has been broken for at least 15 years. The Coach (back
when they had a paid one) could NEVER get MIT to fix it. He had a lash-
up on the handle for years, and now that has broken off. I finally
decided to devote MY time & money to fix it properly, and I was hoping
someone might provide some useful info before I forge ahead. What I
don't need is flack from a pompous jackass.
Doug White
Stormin Mormon
Safe handles shouldn't be that hard to replace. Might also
be possible to mark the direction a side handle should be,
with a sharpie. Take out what you got, and have a welding
shop weld a L-handle on the end of what shaft is left.
Same day project, put it back together before the shooting
club guys go home.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Doug White" <gwh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns9E7AC9DB66A7E...@69.16.186.7...
Doug White
news:ihtaj0$bu6$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> Well, that's our Evan.
>
> Safe handles shouldn't be that hard to replace. Might also
> be possible to mark the direction a side handle should be,
> with a sharpie. Take out what you got, and have a welding
> shop weld a L-handle on the end of what shaft is left.
>
> Same day project, put it back together before the shooting
> club guys go home.
The actual handle appears to be cast zinc/Zamac. It's chromed, and the
busted edge has been covered with hockey tape to avoid the sharp bits, so
it's hard to tell. It occurs to me I should try a magnet on it to see if
it is ferrous by some miracle. The shaft is still firmly connected to
the remains of the handle, but it's possible the shaft can be separated
once I get things disassembled further. Welding is possible, but not
necessarily a slam dunk.
I'm going to do a little exploratory surgery this weekend to scope things
out. The access panel to change the combination is currently held on
with scotch tape, but I'm not sure if I can see much of the handle
linkage through that hole. Half the screws that hold the inner door
panel on are missing, so it won't take long to take that off enough for a
better look.
Doug White
Stormin Mormon
and maybe some low strength loctite for the threads.
Please do magnet what's left of the opening handle or shaft.
Never know, it may be ferrous. Sometimes iron breaks in a
kind of crystaline appearance.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Doug White" <gwh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns9E7AE48A359F6...@69.16.186.50...
Steve W.
If the handle shaft is a round item and not tapered you could make a
handle easy. Just take a chunk of bar stock, weld a bearing locking
collar or a steel bushing that will tightly fit on the shaft. Slide it
in place and then cross drill both for a pin. Then apply some locking
compound or epoxy to the shaft. Slide the handle back on and install the
pin. Should be able to do all of it without opening the safe.
Now if the shaft is broken of real close to the safe you could do a
variant of this but drill a hole into the remains of the shaft and
insert a piece of keystock or a hex key to use a a support
--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
us...@domain.invalid
> The actual handle appears to be cast zinc/Zamac. It's chromed, and the
> busted edge has been covered with hockey tape to avoid the sharp bits, so
> it's hard to tell. It occurs to me I should try a magnet on it to see if
> it is ferrous by some miracle. The shaft is still firmly connected to
> the remains of the handle, but it's possible the shaft can be separated
> once I get things disassembled further. Welding is possible, but not
> necessarily a slam dunk.
I'm envisioning a shaft with a knob protruding from the door, and a
broken stub on the knob perpendicular to the shaft that used to be the
handle.
If this is the case, might it be possible to drill and tap the knob and
thread a bolt into it to serve as a handle? You could even turn a wood
or plastic handle on a lathe to slip over the bolt to make it look a bit
nicer and easier to grab.
This should be doable without disassembling the door.
Doug White
news:2qh4k6t2qmrf08qb9...@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:08:47 -0800, us...@domain.invalid wrote:
>
>>On 1/27/11 7:27 PM, Doug White wrote:
>>
>>> The actual handle appears to be cast zinc/Zamac. It's chromed, and
>>> the busted edge has been covered with hockey tape to avoid the sharp
>>> bits, so it's hard to tell. It occurs to me I should try a magnet
>>> on it to see if it is ferrous by some miracle. The shaft is still
>>> firmly connected to the remains of the handle, but it's possible the
>>> shaft can be separated once I get things disassembled further.
>>> Welding is possible, but not necessarily a slam dunk.
>
> DO NOT touch the combination lock- leave that alone. dont pull the
> back cover of that lock for any reason- it can bite you back big time.
>
>
> open the door, pull the inside cover, however its fastened..
>
> you will see what remains of the handle on the inside, probably pinned
> or bolted on. take a picture of the linkage in its PRESENT state (door
> unlocked, so you know what the lever/rod positions look like. Linkage
> can be a bitch to reassemble when you dont remember.
>
> before you take the remains of the handle out, measure what remains
> in the outside of the door hole..IF its below the surface of the door.
> take the broken piece of the handle out, find a 'friendly machinist'
> and have him make one.
> reassemble, and TEST..
> then put the inside cover on, and WITH THE DOOR OPEN.. lock the
> bolts..
>
> test the combo lock and the new handle several times BEFORE you shut
> the door.
>
> enjoy.
>
> you MIGHT go to www.clearstar.com, post the brand and model of the
> safe and see if someone has a handle sitting around that you could
> purchase.
> do this in the public area.
Thanks for all the suggestions! There are lots of options for repair,
but the inability to work on the handle out of the safe for any length of
time makes it tricky. I've got a machine shop at home I can fab stuff
in, and there is a student shop right around the corner from the range.
However, I have a lot of other irons in the fire, hence my interest in a
drop in replacement.
To save folks speculation, I've posted a couple of snapshots that show
the busted handle and what the remaining good one looks like.
http://users.rcn.com/gwhite/MIT_Pistol/Safe/Meilink%20Safe%20Handle.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/gwhite/MIT_Pistol/Safe/Meilink%20Safe%20handles.jpg
It's unlike most safe handles I've seen, and IMHO not the best design in
the world.
I'll check out Clearstar.
Doug White
Evan
Ah... So rather than deal with this properly, you are going
to "entirely on your own" initiate your own repair project ?
Sounds like that attitude is part of why there is a problem...
Receiving donated equipment or supplies is one thing, but
the security devices used on University assets including
all locks and keys are something you do not have the
direct authority to repair or modify all by yourself, period...
You seem smart enough to understand that anything used
by an MIT organization which uses the MIT name is a part
of the University and anything used by said organization
becomes MIT property... I would recommend on this issue
that you figure out how to get the authorized SEMO staff
to repair the safe... There are greater liability concerns
for MIT in this situation which you are not factoring in...
You don't appear to be a locksmith, a decent engineer
but not a qualified and experienced locksmith, so leave
the safe alone and let a technician who knows what
they are doing by way of training and practical experience
effect the repairs rather than your well intended but totally
misguided "I can look at this and figure it out" approach...
While you may be volunteer head of whatever (if you are,
you are remiss in your duties to continually update your
assigned www internet site for your organization) you are
not authorized by MIT to make important safety and
security related decisions... As the de facto head of
a club, you need to submit a request to the department
under which your club exists in the University hierarchy,
in this case the Athletics Dept., and find out which
administrative staff member there can approve equipment
repairs and security/lock changes... You can not take
upon yourself to discharge the authority and control over
campus security which has been granted to the SEMO
staff, MIT Police, the senior facility managers/directors
and the Executive Vice President and Treasurer under
whom those other departments report...
If you think you can not obtain funds to repair what
is a safety related device, then consult the Chief of MIT
Police on the matter and perhaps he can cut through
some of the red tape for you on this... The proper and
safe storage of MIT owned firearms which have been
used by a former varsity team now club is a critical
security need and access to those safes should be
highly restricted and the combination(s) changed
annually to prevent unauthorized access... You need
to follow the rules on this if you don't want to get into
serious trouble here... Your diatribe about how the
University doesn't support this or that -- be lucky your
"club sport" still exists, the amount of insurance that
has to be carried to even support a "club sport" which
uses firearms is a lot more than you would think...
Lots of things were cut in lots of places when two years
ago endowment funds suddenly and without warning
shrunk meaning less yearly interest available to spend...
As far as pompous goes there Doug, don't get a
nosebleed there from leaning too far over the railing
up on that quarterdeck from which you look down
upon, in every way possible and imaginable, all the
blue collar workers and the system and rules they
are a part of which made your education possible you
annoying twit...
~~ Evan
Snag
another pompous diatribe
>
> ~~ Evan
I agree with Doug , you *ARE* a pompous ass . Since you apparently know so
much about MIT , why don't *YOU* get it taken care of for Doug instead of
listing all the reasons why he shouldn't ?
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !
Cydrome Leader
they look more like something you'd see on a plain steel cabinet.
Just put some vice grips on there and move on.
Evan
Because it is not my job to help whiny pissant volunteer coaches who
think that University policies don't apply to them...
I never said I worked for MIT, but I have spent enough time being a
college student and working in facilities management to be able to
tell him he should know better...
And you sir, what Usenet rock did you crawl out from under ?
~~ Evan
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Cydrome Leader" <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:ihvfbk$in1$2...@reader1.panix.com...
Cydrome Leader
> Redneck answer?
It's my real answer. Use some conduit cheaters to clamp it down the first
time. Wrap up the handles in duct tape so nobody touches the release
lever.
It's not like anybody is going to suddenly and correctly fix some old
shitty safe that's been broken for decades.
RS at work
threaded end that has a flat or two machined on the end. This
actuates a cam of some sort that actuates the bolt works.
Take off the back of the safe and all should be obvious.
You can take a snap shot or two to help you remenber how it goes back.
When you remove the handle, take it to the machine shop, and make a
copy. The critical thing is the geometry of the shaft from the
shoulder inward, duplicate this exactly. The geometry from the
shoulder outward is up to you but ordinarily they put a week spot at
the junction of the handle and the shaft to give the woulld be safe
cracker something to snap off when they put a chunk of pipe and try to
force the works.
When you reassemble, just make sure that every thing works smooth and
is not going to come loose.
Roger Shoaf
jeff_wisnia
Serendipitously, the Boston Globe Newspaper ran an article on MIT's
pistol shooting club just yesterday.
http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/articles/2011/02/06/at_mit_gun_club_straight_a_shooters/
or
I was surprised to notice so many ladies involved in that club. That's
obviously a sign of the changing times post women's lib. When I
graduated from MIT in 1957 there were about a dozen girls in the senior
graduating class of some 600 students.
When I attended my 50th class reunion almost 4 years ago the female
portion of that year's senior graduating class was reported to be 48%.
And the percentage of Asian and Indian graduates stood at about 38%.
Jeff (Reaching my 3/4 century mark this Thursday.)
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.
Doug White
news:iipto6$q12$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> Doug White wrote:
>> I help coach the collegiate pistol team at MIT, and they store their
>> firearms in a number of large safes they've obtained surplus over the
>> years. The biggest is a two door Meilink safe that is probably 40 or
>> 50 years old. Unfortunately, the cast handle on the combination dial
>> side got bashed at some point, and the main lever broke off. There
>> is just a short stub left. It's useable but just barely.
<snip>
>
> Serendipitously, the Boston Globe Newspaper ran an article on MIT's
> pistol shooting club just yesterday.
>
> http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/articles/2011/02/06/at_mit_gun_club_str
> aight_a_shooters/
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4vc4jld
>
> I was surprised to notice so many ladies involved in that club. That's
> obviously a sign of the changing times post women's lib. When I
> graduated from MIT in 1957 there were about a dozen girls in the
> senior graduating class of some 600 students.
>
> When I attended my 50th class reunion almost 4 years ago the female
> portion of that year's senior graduating class was reported to be 48%.
>
> And the percentage of Asian and Indian graduates stood at about 38%.
>
> Jeff (Reaching my 3/4 century mark this Thursday.)
I convinced the first woman member of the team to take the PE pistol
course in ~ 1973. She was actually anti-gun, but had never fired one. I
told her she should learn about it before she bad mouthed it, and the
following spring she won the women's state indoor pistol championship.
I think the team is close to 2/3rds women now. I'd guess that the
majority of the team is asian, but many of them are US born, with names
like Alex, Eddie, Ruby, etc.
I actually spend more of my time gunsmithing than actively coaching. The
tryouts for the national championship are this weekend, so we really want
to make sure nobody has pistol problems. The team had a match against
Navy last weekend, and they had a variety of malfuctions. Navy beat us,
but not by very much. The gun problems could have made the difference.
MIT has a wide range of pistol types & models, and I've had to learn how
to diagnose & repair some I've never played with before. I fixed a
couple of Hammerli international free pistols today. Hopefully the other
coaches will be able to sort out any remaining issues before the match.
Doug White