Jammed locks after picking
Scott Thomas Yabiku
some pin tumbler locks in my dorm. First, I picked the lock to my room
door. But after picking and sucessfully unlocking it, the lock became
jammed (neither further picking nor the key would work), and I had to have
my lock replaced. I tried picking another lock (same type as my door), and
it too seems to be jammed.
Why is this happening? I didn't force the locks in any way; my picking and
tension are very gentle, as they should be. Could they be cheap locks?
They were fairly easy to pick.
-yabi
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Have a nice day! :)
Sixth Plane of Hell
What is probably happening is that you are knocking out the master pins during
your picking. This happens a lot in locks found at school because they are often
great grand mastered keys which means that the pins in the lock are not solid like a typical lock, but rather in several pieces in order to accomodate many
different keys. However when you master key a lock like this you must use
many small pins that are easily dislodged when you pick them. This doesn't
happen when you use a key because the key actually holds them in place.
Unfortunately the picks do not..
bill nelson
:
: What is probably happening is that you are knocking out the master pins during
: your picking. This happens a lot in locks found at school because they are often
: great grand mastered keys which means that the pins in the lock are not solid like a typical lock, but rather in several pieces in order to accomodate many
: different keys. However when you master key a lock like this you must use
: many small pins that are easily dislodged when you pick them. This doesn't
: happen when you use a key because the key actually holds them in place.
: Unfortunately the picks do not..
This problem would only occur with a poorly designed master key system - no
matter how many levels of mastering are used. Also, there should be no way
that the pins should be "dislodged" anywhere. Where can they go?
It is possible that there are some thin pins in the lock. If the person
is raking the pins, they might jump and tip on edge. Depending on which
pin did so, it could cause either the master or change key (or both) to
not work any more.
Bill
Darryl J. Holman
>It is possible that there are some thin pins in the lock. If the person
>is raking the pins, they might jump and tip on edge. Depending on which
>pin did so, it could cause either the master or change key (or both) to
>not work any more.
>
at picking. The key would only go about halfway into the lock. I figured
that, perhaps, tiny metal filings were comming off of my pick. So, I
squirted some graphite into the locks, raked the locks, tapped the
core a few times with the handle of a screwdriver, and succeeded in
getting the lock to work again.
What material are the Best pins made of? Perhaps they are made of a
harder material than my picks. I make picks out of broken-off street
sweeper brushes. Are these too soft to use. Many years ago, I used
to be able to find good quality spring steel laying around in
industral areas. I think they were used as supper-straps for holding
machinery down to palettes. But those days are gone, and now all I find
is plastic straps. Where does one get good spring steel for making
picks and tension wrenches?
Darryl Holman Penn State University, Some third-world county, USA
bill nelson
: I have also had Best removable-core type locks get jammed after attempts
: at picking. The key would only go about halfway into the lock. I figured
: that, perhaps, tiny metal filings were comming off of my pick. So, I
: squirted some graphite into the locks, raked the locks, tapped the
: core a few times with the handle of a screwdriver, and succeeded in
: getting the lock to work again.
This is starting to sound like a thin pin is getting tipped and jammed -
maybe between the two shear lines.
: What material are the Best pins made of? Perhaps they are made of a
: harder material than my picks. I make picks out of broken-off street
: sweeper brushes. Are these too soft to use. Many years ago, I used
: to be able to find good quality spring steel laying around in
: industral areas. I think they were used as supper-straps for holding
: machinery down to palettes. But those days are gone, and now all I find
: is plastic straps. Where does one get good spring steel for making
: picks and tension wrenches?
All pins, that I have encountered, are softer than spring steel. I don't
think the strapping was spring steel - too soft. Generally, you cannot
bend spring steel to a sharp right angle, without it fracturing. I still
see metal strapping used, on rare occasion. You might check with local
industrial suppliers. Maybe they have a whole spool of it that they cannot
unload because nearly everyone is using nylon. If so, maybe you could make
a deal with them - and have enough to supply several thousand locksmiths
with pick material for the rest of their lives.
Bill
GG....@isumvs.iastate.edu
>>It is possible that there are some thin pins in the lock. If the person
>>is raking the pins, they might jump and tip on edge. Depending on which
>>pin did so, it could cause either the master or change key (or both) to
>>not work any more.
>>
> I have also had Best removable-core type locks get jammed after attempts
>at picking. The key would only go about halfway into the lock. I figured
>that, perhaps, tiny metal filings were comming off of my pick. So, I
>squirted some graphite into the locks, raked the locks, tapped the
>core a few times with the handle of a screwdriver, and succeeded in
>getting the lock to work again.
>
locks, the width of the bottom of the keyway in the plug is
greater than the diameter of the pins. If while picking or dis
assembling, you turn the plug more than 180 degrees, the springs
will force the pins from the cylinder into the bottom of the plug.
Voila! A jammed lock or lost pins. When using the key, this is not
a problem since the bottom edge of the key is flush with the open
side of the keyway.
Bill F.
Scot Thorstad
<delurks>
A little while ago I made a great pick out of an old hacksaw blade.
It's good steel and just the right thickness for the job. The only
problem was that after picking my front door lock a few dozen times
i wore enough metal off the pins that the key wouldn't work. Shouldn't
have raked it. Hope this helps.
scot
bill nelson
: >
: >All pins, that I have encountered, are softer than spring steel. I don't
: >think the strapping was spring steel - too soft. Generally, you cannot
: >bend spring steel to a sharp right angle, without it fracturing. I still
: >see metal strapping used, on rare occasion. You might check with local
: >industrial suppliers. Maybe they have a whole spool of it that they cannot
: >unload because nearly everyone is using nylon. If so, maybe you could make
: >a deal with them - and have enough to supply several thousand locksmiths
: >with pick material for the rest of their lives.
: >
: >Bill
:
: <delurks>
: A little while ago I made a great pick out of an old hacksaw blade.
: It's good steel and just the right thickness for the job. The only
: problem was that after picking my front door lock a few dozen times
: i wore enough metal off the pins that the key wouldn't work. Shouldn't
: have raked it. Hope this helps.
Another source is a place that repairs band saw blades. Many of them are
also the right thickness. You could also just go to Sears or a discount
store and buy a 1/4" or 3/8" bandsaw blade. It would cost a few dollars,
but would supply enough material for dozens of picks.
By the way, Scot - you forgot to relurk on departing.
Bill
stephen g. wadlow
In article <1992Nov9.2...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> bi...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>It is possible that there are some thin pins in the lock. If the person
>is raking the pins, they might jump and tip on edge. Depending on which
>pin did so, it could cause either the master or change key (or both) to
>not work any more.
I have also had Best removable-core type locks get jammed after attempts
at picking. The key would only go about halfway into the lock. I figured
that, perhaps, tiny metal filings were comming off of my pick. So, I
squirted some graphite into the locks, raked the locks, tapped the
core a few times with the handle of a screwdriver, and succeeded in
getting the lock to work again.
that sounds very much like a wedged wafer, and is very common in pin tumbler locks.
The description sounds like one of the wafers is fairly thin, and easy to get wedged
slightly diagnolly, thereby any of the bottom pins can't actually move up and down
like they normally should. What you have described is also the textbook solution
to freeing a wedged wafer.
steve
Sixth Plane of Hell
The problem here is that I've had this happen not only to myself but to some co-workers on several occasions. This usually happened on great graand master systems where the person who keyed the locks decided it would be a great idea to use
very thin pins/driver combinations. Many times the pins would be jammed between
the shear line or actually knocked out of the lock. I know this sounds really
absurd but with the thickness of some of the pins they can be knocked into the keyway and jamm up the locks..
bill nelson
: very thin pins/driver combinations. Many times the pins would be jammed between
: the shear line or actually knocked out of the lock. I know this sounds really
: absurd but with the thickness of some of the pins they can be knocked into the keyway and jamm up the locks..
Yes, very thin pins can cause a problem. With a properly designed system,
the thin pins are avoided - for this specific reason. If the person runs
out of change key combinations, then a new keyway is chosen.
There are keyway series that are designed for master-key system. The master
key will fit all the keyways, but the change keys will only fit one of the
several keyways. It is also possible to have a grand master that fits all
the keyways and master keys that fit only a few of them.
Bill
Scot Thorstad
>mio...@stein.u.washington.edu (Scot Thorstad) writes:
>: >
>: <delurks>
>
>: A little while ago I made a great pick out of an old hacksaw blade.
>: It's good steel and just the right thickness for the job. The only
>: problem was that after picking my front door lock a few dozen times
>: i wore enough metal off the pins that the key wouldn't work. Shouldn't
>: have raked it. Hope this helps.
>
>Another source is a place that repairs band saw blades. Many of them are
>also the right thickness. You could also just go to Sears or a discount
>store and buy a 1/4" or 3/8" bandsaw blade. It would cost a few dollars,
>but would supply enough material for dozens of picks.
>
>By the way, Scot - you forgot to relurk on departing.
>
>Bill
Maybe I plan to stick around, hows that strike ya?
Scot
bill nelson
: >
: >Another source is a place that repairs band saw blades. Many of them are
: >also the right thickness. You could also just go to Sears or a discount
: >store and buy a 1/4" or 3/8" bandsaw blade. It would cost a few dollars,
: >but would supply enough material for dozens of picks.
: >
: >By the way, Scot - you forgot to relurk on departing.
: >
: >Bill
:
: Maybe I plan to stick around, hows that strike ya?
The more, the merrier.
Bill
