removing ignition key cylinder
Brandon Van Every
disassembling the steering column as much as I could - which wasn't very much -
I found that by gouging out the soft metal of the cylinder interior, I was able
to remove the key and get the lock working again. The cylinder is damaged but
functional, not sure how much more thievable it is. The part of the cylinder
that aligns with the key's teeth is still intact, but there's now a larger
keyhole that one could insert lockpicks into.
The original plan was to take the entire ignition cylinder housing out of the
car. But the housing was bolted to the steering column, and the bolts were
*circular* not hex-sided or socketed or anything. I have no idea what kind of
tool I'd use to remove these bolts. Some kind of circular rubber friction
gripper thingy? Does anyone have any idea what kind of tool is required to
remove such bolts?
Also, on the ignition cylinder housing itself, there are these small screws
lying flush with the housing that don't have any heads. They seem responsible
for holding the lock cylinder in place. How the heck do you get these things
apart to extract the old lock cylinder and put a new one in?
Neither of these impediments have any functional effect on starting the
ignition. The ignition switch is held in place by 1 completely ordinary screw.
When pulled off, it's a simple matter to flick the circular switch and start the
engine. So I really don't understand why the act of taking out the ignition
cylinder housing was made so difficult.
Any comments appreciated.
--
Cheers, 3d graphics optimization jock
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA
Experts eliminate the simpler mistakes in favor of the more
complex ones, thereby achieving a higher degree of stupidity. :-)
"Keyman"
You really need to purchase a New Ignition. That one will surly breakdown
and leave you stranded one day..
Next time, consider calling a professional, it will save you time & $$$
--
"Keyman"
Brandon Van Every <vane...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7tje7k$mk4$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Brandon Van Every
"Keyman" <key...@gcstation.net> wrote in message
news:R9cL3.2775$Zq6....@news2.atl...
> You have compromised the Security of your Car.
Quite possible. On the other hand, in the course of trying to do it myself, I
learned how to hotwire my car by only removing 4 phillip screws from the
steering column! So I think the damage is more to perceived security than
actual security. I do hope that nobody looks in the window and says "Hmm,
partially broken lock, must be an easy mark!"
> You really need to purchase a New Ignition. That one will surly breakdown
> and leave you stranded one day..
Not likely if I keep a phillip screwdriver in my glove compartment! The
ignition switch mechanism is so simple to activate, that I don't understand why
the engineers went to all the trouble to make the ignition housing so darned
difficult to remove. The lock is just basically window dressing on a very easy
to remove-and-manipulate circular switch. Not any more complicated than taking
apart a joystick for a game console.
> Next time, consider calling a professional,
I did. The "AAA Locksmith" guys (not to be confused with AAA) came, looked at
the problem, and couldn't do a thing for me. Least they didn't charge me for
the priveledge.
> it will save you time & $$$
Well in the short run, no I don't think so. Someone should have a big ad in the
yellowpages that says "specializing in IGNITION key problems." All the big ads
were for house locks and opening car doors. After the complete boner the AAA
Locksmith guys pulled - I mean, the guy pulls out a variable-head screwdriver to
deal with the problem, no special tools at all - I wasn't really confident that
the locksmiths would be able to do a darned thing for me. Or at least, it would
consume a lot of my *time* to call around and find ones that could do the job,
then compare rates. Total *money* expended on my solution = $3 for a new key,
plus the future cost of a broken pair of needlenose pliers.
I don't have lotsa $$$ right now for the ignition cylinder repair. An auto
dealer would surely have charged $65/hour for labor and $300 for the lock set,
even though I don't need door and window locks replaced. Oh, and replacing
those other locks is also more labor $$$.
What I'd realy like to know now, is how cheap an aftermarket lock cylinder
really can be. It's clear that the one I had was a cheap piece of junk, look
how I was able to manhandle it, and look how it did absolutely nothing to
prevent me from starting the car. So I can only go up in the world. But I'm
not accepting that this is a $300 part, or even a $100 part. I'm getting tired
of people charging $100 for every single piece of junk that breaks in my Ford
Probe. I'm happy to shop around and get wise to some of these problems, I've
got time now.
Raymond Schreiner
was done to the lock and walked away. I would have too.
Had he done anything except a total replacement, he could
end up in a lawsuit.
BTW, your 93 Ford Probe GT is actually made by Mazda.
Our do-it-yourselfer didn't even recognize a shear-headed
bolt when he saw it. The head of this bolt is designed to
break off as it's torque spec is reached. It is an added
security feature of the lock to prevent bypassing the
steering wheel lockup.
The BIG surprise is going to come when, after you "hot wire"
it again, the steering wheel locks up while doing 60 MPH
on the highway. That will get your attention. How fast can
you fix THAT as the car drifts towards a guard rail?
Brandon, your self-confidence and cockiness may well kill
you yet. I would suggest that you have it replaced at a dealer
NOW. Any price is cheaper then a funeral.
Raymond Schreiner
Midtown Locksmith, Inc.
Tony Balestrieri
Tony Balestrieri
Raymond Schreiner wrote:
> The "AAA Locksmith" guy probably took one look at what
> was done to the lock and walked away. I would have too.
> Had he done anything except a total replacement, he could
> end up in a lawsuit.
>
> BTW, your 93 Ford Probe GT is actually made by Mazda.
>
> Our do-it-yourselfer didn't even recognize a shear-headed
> bolt when he saw it. The head of this bolt is designed to
> break off as it's torque spec is reached. It is an added
> security feature of the lock to prevent bypassing the
> steering wheel lockup.
>
> The BIG surprise is going to come when, after you "hot wire"
> it again, the steering wheel locks up while doing 60 MPH
> on the highway. That will get your attention. How fast can
> you fix THAT as the car drifts towards a guard rail?
>
> Brandon, your self-confidence and cockiness may well kill
> you yet. I would suggest that you have it replaced at a dealer
> NOW. Any price is cheaper then a funeral.
>
> Raymond Schreiner
> Midtown Locksmith, Inc.
>
Brandon Van Every
Tony Balestrieri <tbl...@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:37fea0aa$0$11...@news.execpc.com...
> you tell him!
BTW your sanctimonious statements do nothing to make me wish to use the services
of your company, should such you have. One thing I will give the AAA Locksmith
guys credit for, their customer service training was impeccable.
Brandon Van Every
Raymond Schreiner <raym...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:37FE5794...@bellatlantic.net...
> The "AAA Locksmith" guy probably took one look at what
> was done to the lock and walked away.
Nope, he went through exactly the same procedures of trying to find a way into
the steering column housing that I had the day before. We both got stuck on how
to remove the plastic cover without breaking it. Turned out I had pulled a
boner, there was a 4th screw I hadn't removed!
> I would have too.
> Had he done anything except a total replacement, he could
> end up in a lawsuit.
Ok so the locksmithing industry doesn't have a solution that meets the needs of
a person who has simply snapped his key off. I mean, do you guys get highly
paid for your expertise in drilling keys out without further damage to a lock,
or just for jiggling a key until it unsticks? Bear in mind that I didn't start
systematically destroying the cylinder to solve the problem until after the AAA
Locksmith guys had looked at it and given up. The job was simply to remove the
key and reset any mechanisms that caused it to jam. Maybe if I had been a
little more level-headed, a lubricant of some sort would have done the trick.
But I was losing patience (it happens) and aside from learning on the web that I
shouldn't use WD-40, I wasn't getting the answers I needed in the timeframe I
wanted.
I did describe my situation to the AAA Locksmith guy, they thought it would be
"easy" and that's why they drove their van out to see my car. It appears that
maybe the trainee was misinformed or the communication as to the exact nature of
the problem wasn't clear. It is too bad that this particular company gave me my
first impression of your industry, but frankly between them and the phone book
ads, I had little reason to believe that the job would be performed competently.
> BTW, your 93 Ford Probe GT is actually made by Mazda.
>
> Our do-it-yourselfer didn't even recognize a shear-headed
> bolt when he saw it. The head of this bolt is designed to
> break off as it's torque spec is reached. It is an added
> security feature of the lock to prevent bypassing the
> steering wheel lockup.
Incorrect. I did not know what to *do* with it, what the tool for unbolting it
was. It was quite obviously a bolt that had had its head sheared off, there
were uneven marks from where the cuts were made. As for any security feature,
like I explained before on my car it's absurd. It doesn't prevent any theft of
the vehicle, it only prevents the ignition housing from being removed from the
steering column. I don't see much purpose in this except to make a repair job
more expensive. Or perhaps it's a componential architecture, and makes sense in
the context of a car alarm or another car model that has better security for the
ignition. My car has *no* security for the ignition switch whatsoever, the car
can be hotwired by removing 4 screws from the steering column.
> The BIG surprise is going to come when, after you "hot wire"
> it again, the steering wheel locks up while doing 60 MPH
> on the highway. That will get your attention. How fast can
> you fix THAT as the car drifts towards a guard rail?
Please explain why an ignition housing that has absolutely no electrical
connection whatsoever to the steering column, just a mechanical one that turns a
plastic switch, is going to cause any such behavior? Maybe you actually have a
good explanation, but I'd like to hear it, since you're busting my chops about
what a nunce I was for assessing the situation as I did. As far as I can tell,
the components are exactly the same as what comes in an Atari videogame
joystick. I took those things apart when I was 8 years old, they are not
complicated.
> Brandon, your self-confidence and cockiness may well kill
> you yet. I would suggest that you have it replaced at a dealer
> NOW. Any price is cheaper then a funeral.
We're not all rich at any given moment in time. I'm not cocky, you're
Holier-Than-Thou. I never said I didn't want to fix the thing properly at some
point, but right now I cannot afford to. Lacking demonstrable evidence that my
car is in any way dangerous, and knowing what I now know about the car's
thievability, why shouldn't I wait until I have the bucks? I'm not convinced
that the sky is going to fall just because I did some DIY.
Any industry that charges top dollar, I expect to see expertise. So I'd expect
a real good story from you about exactly why my car is going to crash into a
ditch the next time I'm on the freeway. Could it be that, perhaps, not all car
ignition mechanisms are the same, and I've got one of the more butt-simple ones?
Anyways, feel free to answer or not. I will find out if you actually knew what
you were talking about when I get a proper shop manual when I've got the money.
As my car is getting older too many minor irritants are happening, so it's a
worthy investment.
Robert (Sierra123)
there ads first in the yellow pages, and it has been my "PERSONAL"
experience that these are some of the worst.
Brandon Van Every wrote in message
<7tmdu5$a56$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Epluribust
stop. They said a court ruled that the 3 a's looked enough like their trademark
to require others not to use it. I dont know what happened but I hear AAA is
so desperate now for locksmiths that they will sign on anyone willing to work
cheap and odd hours. It seems they cut the prices on their locksmith work and
now their customers are suffering for it. I guess that prompted them to ease up
on the locksmith using their trademark.
Trollboye
Brandon Van Every wrote:
<snip>
>
> Also, on the ignition cylinder housing itself, there are these small screws
> lying flush with the housing that don't have any heads. They seem responsible
> for holding the lock cylinder in place. How the heck do you get these things
> apart to extract the old lock cylinder and put a new one in?
More than likely, the screws that hold the lock cylinder in place are
missing their heads. When the screws are new they have heads, but,
during the install, the heads break off (intentionally) when the screws
are tightened.
Usually a small chisel is used to remove the screws by tapping what's
left of the head of the screw in the counter-clockwise direction,
loosening the screw.
> Neither of these impediments have any functional effect on starting the
> ignition. The ignition switch is held in place by 1 completely ordinary screw.
> When pulled off, it's a simple matter to flick the circular switch and start the
> engine. So I really don't understand why the act of taking out the ignition
> cylinder housing was made so difficult.
Can you turn the steering wheel when you start the car by pulling off
the ignition switch? The mechanical portion of the ignition lock usually
includes a steering lock and sometimes a gearshift lock.
Of course, the best thing to do would be to get a shop manual to show
you how to do all this.
T.B.
Sgt....@nunya.com
advice, & then bitch when they get it????????
On Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:55:56 -0700, "Brandon Van Every"
<vane...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Tony Balestrieri <tbl...@execpc.com> wrote in message
>news:37fea0aa$0$11...@news.execpc.com...
>> you tell him!
>
>BTW your sanctimonious statements do nothing to make me wish to use the services
>of your company, should such you have. One thing I will give the AAA Locksmith
>guys credit for, their customer service training was impeccable.
>
>
>--
>Cheers, 3d graphics optimization jock
>Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA
>
>Experts eliminate the simpler mistakes in favor of the more
>complex ones, thereby achieving a higher degree of stupidity. :-)
>
>
>
Sgt.Fury
Mr.Locksmith/Advanced Security & Controls
Atlanta, Ga.
"Keyman"
>Quite possible. On the other hand, in the course of trying to do it
myself, I
> learned how to hotwire my car by only removing 4 phillip screws from the
> steering column
Has nothing to do with the designed Security of the Car.
Remember that Locks are for Honest people..
>So I think the damage is more to perceived security than
> actual security. I do hope that nobody looks in the window and says "Hmm,
> partially broken lock, must be an easy mark!"
You are right there...
> Not likely if I keep a phillip screwdriver in my glove compartment!
Still has nothing to do with the designed Security of the Car.
>The ignition switch mechanism is so simple to activate, that I don't
understand >why the engineers went to all the trouble to make the ignition
housing so darned
> difficult to remove.
Not really difficult when you have the knowledge & the right tools..
>The lock is just basically window dressing on a very easy to
remove-and->manipulate circular switch. Not any more complicated than
taking apart a >joystick for a game console.
Again, Locks are for Honest Folks..
> I did. The "AAA Locksmith" guys (not to be confused with AAA) came,
looked >at the problem, and couldn't do a thing for me.
You called the wrong Locksmiths. If they done Auto Work, they should have
been able to do that "Simple Job"
>Least they didn't charge me for
> the privilege.
How could they ?
Sounds Like they didn't do anything.
How could someone charge for "Lack Of Knowledge" ???
>Someone should have a big ad in the yellowpages that says "specializing in
>IGNITION key problems." All the big ads were for house locks and opening
car >doors.
You got a point, Good Idea
>After the complete boner the AAA Locksmith guys pulled - I mean, the guy
pulls >out a variable-head screwdriver to deal with the problem, no special
tools at all >- I wasn't really confident that the locksmiths would be able
to do a darned thing >for me.
Again, You called the wrong Locksmiths. If they done Auto Work, they should
have been able to do that "Simple Job"
>Or at least, it would consume a lot of my *time* to call around and find
ones that >could do the job, then compare rates.
No more than you spent screwing it up..
>Total *money* expended on my solution = $3 for a new key,
> plus the future cost of a broken pair of needlenose pliers.
You still do not have your problem solved.
You just have a screwed up Car now.
> I don't have lotsa $$$ right now for the ignition cylinder repair. An
auto
> dealer would surely have charged $65/hour for labor and $300 for the lock
set,
> even though I don't need door and window locks replaced. Oh, and
replacing
> those other locks is also more labor $$$.
Of coarce the Dealer would do that. The price to do al that at the dealer
would be higher than that.
> What I'd really like to know now, is how cheap an aftermarket lock
cylinder
> really can be. It's clear that the one I had was a cheap piece of junk,
look
> how I was able to manhandle it, and look how it did absolutely nothing to
> prevent me from starting the car. So I can only go up in the world. But
I'm
> not accepting that this is a $300 part, or even a $100 part. I'm getting
tired
> of people charging $100 for every single piece of junk that breaks in my
Ford
> Probe. I'm happy to shop around and get wise to some of these problems,
I've
> got time now.
Prices vary depending on your location.
I would Charge for that job,
Trip & Labor: $ 75.00 + Parts
Providing that you didn't damage the Lock Housing..
--
"Keyman"
Brandon Van Every <vane...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7tk3lf$2gp$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "Keyman" <key...@gcstation.net> wrote in message
> news:R9cL3.2775$Zq6....@news2.atl...
> > You have compromised the Security of your Car.
>
> Quite possible. On the other hand, in the course of trying to do it
myself, I
> learned how to hotwire my car by only removing 4 phillip screws from the
> steering column! So I think the damage is more to perceived security than
> actual security. I do hope that nobody looks in the window and says "Hmm,
> partially broken lock, must be an easy mark!"
>
> > You really need to purchase a New Ignition. That one will surly
breakdown
> > and leave you stranded one day..
>
> Not likely if I keep a phillip screwdriver in my glove compartment! The
> ignition switch mechanism is so simple to activate, that I don't
understand why
Raymond Schreiner
I believe you just had a little bad luck with an inexperienced
locksmith. I for one, have NEVER failed to remove a broken
key from ANY ignition lock, foreign or domestic. That skill
however, comes from over 28 years experience.
I am not being "Holier-Than-Thou" as you put it, I was trying to
save you from injury. Even YOU mentioned that the lock seemed
over engineered. It is for a reason.
> > The BIG surprise is going to come when, after you "hot wire"
> > it again, the steering wheel locks up while doing 60 MPH
> > on the highway. That will get your attention. How fast can
> > you fix THAT as the car drifts towards a guard rail?
>
> Please explain why an ignition housing that has absolutely no electrical
> connection whatsoever to the steering column, just a mechanical one that turns a
> plastic switch, is going to cause any such behavior? Maybe you actually have a
> good explanation, but I'd like to hear it, since you're busting my chops about
> what a nunce I was for assessing the situation as I did. As far as I can tell,
> the components are exactly the same as what comes in an Atari videogame
> joystick. I took those things apart when I was 8 years old, they are not
> complicated.
>
That lock assembly has another mechanical feature besides
the turning of the electrical switch behind it.
It contains a spring loaded prong that engages the steering
wheel shaft. When engaged, it prevents the steering wheel from
turning. The shear headed bolts prevent tampering with this.
A fully functional assembly prevents the wheel from locking up
while driving. It also contains several interlock and safety features
to prevent this. You bypassed these SAFETY features.
The mechanical lockup could activate when you least expect it.
If it activates while driving, you will have NO directional control.
I would take out a loan to get this fixed. Some things in a car
you can let slide, not this. Also, your insurance company may not
pay up if an accident, or theft of the vehicle, occurs as a result of
tampering with the switch.
Brandon Van Every
Trollboye <trol...@aol.com> wrote in message news:37FED6E2...@aol.com...
>
> > Neither of these impediments have any functional effect on starting the
> > ignition. The ignition switch is held in place by 1 completely ordinary
screw.
> > When pulled off, it's a simple matter to flick the circular switch and start
the
> > engine. So I really don't understand why the act of taking out the ignition
> > cylinder housing was made so difficult.
>
> Can you turn the steering wheel when you start the car by pulling off
> the ignition switch? The mechanical portion of the ignition lock usually
> includes a steering lock and sometimes a gearshift lock.
Well, in my case I had the remainder of a key in the ignition, so yes I could
turn the steering wheel no problemo. But I guess you've got a point. Lacking a
key, a thief might be able to start the car easily enough, but he's not going to
get anywhere unless he can drive the car in a straight line to make his escape!
:-) Or a little doughnut if you happened to turn your wheels into the curb!
:-) :-) :-)
> Of course, the best thing to do would be to get a shop manual to show
> you how to do all this.
Yep, will do when I have the money.
Brandon Van Every
<Sgt....@nunya.com> wrote in message news:37ff1b62...@news.lynxus.com...
> .......sigh.........why do so many people come on this group, ask for
> advice, & then bitch when they get it????????
Well it seems to me that I got plenty of advice from nice, even-tempered people.
But some folks like to play the game of "kick the DIY because I'm a
professional." I'm not in need of that kind of advice, nor is it the kind of
advice I give when talking about 3d graphics.
Brandon Van Every
>
> >The ignition switch mechanism is so simple to activate, that I don't
> understand >why the engineers went to all the trouble to make the ignition
> housing so darned
> > difficult to remove.
>
> Not really difficult when you have the knowledge & the right tools..
Yeah I figured in an auto shop they'd probably just destroy the bolts and put
new ones in. Having neither the tools nor a ready supply of those bolts, I had
different concerns. Making the repair method easy for a dealer but hard for a
consumer is a way to elevate bills I suppose. But some perusal of a shop manual
and searching around for where to get tools and parts I'm sure would put me on
an even footing. It just wasn't going to do me any good in the short run.
> > I did. The "AAA Locksmith" guys (not to be confused with AAA) came,
> looked >at the problem, and couldn't do a thing for me.
>
> You called the wrong Locksmiths. If they done Auto Work, they should have
> been able to do that "Simple Job"
Oh well, live and learn.
> >Least they didn't charge me for
> > the privilege.
> How could they ?
> Sounds Like they didn't do anything.
> How could someone charge for "Lack Of Knowledge" ???
"Service fee" for driving the van up? I would have protested.
> >Or at least, it would consume a lot of my *time* to call around and find
> ones that >could do the job, then compare rates.
>
> No more than you spent screwing it up..
Time, sure. Money, not so sure.
> >Total *money* expended on my solution = $3 for a new key,
> > plus the future cost of a broken pair of needlenose pliers.
>
> You still do not have your problem solved.
> You just have a screwed up Car now.
Well at least it drives fine for now.
> Prices vary depending on your location.
> I would Charge for that job,
> Trip & Labor: $ 75.00 + Parts
> Providing that you didn't damage the Lock Housing..
Sounds livable, I'll keep that in mind.
"Keyman"
Brandon,
Good Luck,
You seem to be an intelligent person...
Don't we all Live & Learn
--
"Keyman"
http://www.GCStation.net/~aslock/
Brandon Van Every <vane...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7toc76$2v8$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "Keyman" <key...@gcstation.net> wrote in message
> news:sZLL3.6876$Zq6....@news2.atl...
> >
> > >The ignition switch mechanism is so simple to activate, that I don't
> > understand >why the engineers went to all the trouble to make the
ignition
> > housing so darned
> > > difficult to remove.
> >
> > Not really difficult when you have the knowledge & the right tools..
>
> Yeah I figured in an auto shop they'd probably just destroy the bolts and
put
> new ones in. Having neither the tools nor a ready supply of those bolts,
I had
> different concerns. Making the repair method easy for a dealer but hard
for a
> consumer is a way to elevate bills I suppose. But some perusal of a shop
manual
> and searching around for where to get tools and parts I'm sure would put
me on
> an even footing. It just wasn't going to do me any good in the short run.
>
> > > I did. The "AAA Locksmith" guys (not to be confused with AAA) came,
> > looked >at the problem, and couldn't do a thing for me.
> >
> > You called the wrong Locksmiths. If they done Auto Work, they should
have
> > been able to do that "Simple Job"
>
> Oh well, live and learn.
>
> > >Least they didn't charge me for
> > > the privilege.
> > How could they ?
> > Sounds Like they didn't do anything.
> > How could someone charge for "Lack Of Knowledge" ???
>
> "Service fee" for driving the van up? I would have protested.
>
> > >Or at least, it would consume a lot of my *time* to call around and
find
> > ones that >could do the job, then compare rates.
> >
> > No more than you spent screwing it up..
>
> Time, sure. Money, not so sure.
>
> > >Total *money* expended on my solution = $3 for a new key,
> > > plus the future cost of a broken pair of needlenose pliers.
> >
> > You still do not have your problem solved.
> > You just have a screwed up Car now.
>
> Well at least it drives fine for now.
>
> > Prices vary depending on your location.
> > I would Charge for that job,
> > Trip & Labor: $ 75.00 + Parts
> > Providing that you didn't damage the Lock Housing..
>
> Sounds livable, I'll keep that in mind.
Brandon Van Every
> Brandon,
> I believe you just had a little bad luck with an inexperienced
> locksmith. I for one, have NEVER failed to remove a broken
> key from ANY ignition lock, foreign or domestic. That skill
> however, comes from over 28 years experience.
>
> I am not being "Holier-Than-Thou" as you put it, I was trying to
> save you from injury. Even YOU mentioned that the lock seemed
> over engineered. It is for a reason.
Ok well I guess we had a communication problem, glad it's resolved now.
> That lock assembly has another mechanical feature besides
> the turning of the electrical switch behind it.
> It contains a spring loaded prong that engages the steering
> wheel shaft. When engaged, it prevents the steering wheel from
> turning. The shear headed bolts prevent tampering with this.
> A fully functional assembly prevents the wheel from locking up
> while driving. It also contains several interlock and safety features
> to prevent this. You bypassed these SAFETY features.
> The mechanical lockup could activate when you least expect it.
> If it activates while driving, you will have NO directional control.
My problem seems to be that sometimes the mechanism refuses to *go* to the
locked position while *parking* ? If so, then it would seem that I don't have a
dangerous problem at all. Of course, the problem could have changed with my
tampering.
> I would take out a loan to get this fixed. Some things in a car
> you can let slide, not this.
Well, it may sound self-destructive, but I can't worry that much. The pot metal
I removed from the front of the lock cylinder was so cheap that I don't think
I've done much more than violate the aesthetics. Gloom and doom was pronounced
when my rear brake cables were maybe not fully disengaging, and a $400 caliper
replacement was deemed warranted. But as far as I can tell the cables and
brakes have been working fine for 1.5 years now. In fact, they work much better
than when I first had the problem, so I guess the problem sorted itself out. I
think a lot of these car components are built to a greater engineering tolerance
than the fix-it shops acknowledge. If all that was standing in the way of my
steering column locking up was 1/16" of pot metal, well....
> Also, your insurance company may not
> pay up if an accident, or theft of the vehicle, occurs as a result of
> tampering with the switch.
This is true, at least for an accident. But if vehicle theft occurs, how are
they going to know that the thief didn't do the damage? :-) Of course they
could dig through the Internet and find this incriminating post, but I bet they
don't.
When I have the money and can settle the problem for a reasonable price, I will
do so. But it has been made clear to me that information collection is part of
the drill of keeping auto repair costs down. When you're over a barrel, and you
call up someone who has a vested interest in making money off your problem, you
tend to get fleeced. Right now, I'm no longer over a barrel, my car works. I
think that was worth the time and effort I put into it. I didn't just
gratuitously "screw up" the cylinder, I'm pretty sure it was screwed up before
because it locked on me like this about a year ago. I just got lucky getting
out of it that time, jiggling and patience worked.
JOE
head bolts. They start out with a hex head, but that actually breaks off
when tightened down. The cylinder itself is held in place by roll pins. In
answer to your other question, most thieves won't take the time to remove
the steering wheel to start the car, because they can't drive it away until
they replace the wheel. That means they are taking more time to steal the
car and more time translates into more chance of being caught.
paul k. crl.
> I have a 93 Ford Probe GT, my key broke off in the ignition cylinder.
After
> disassembling the steering column as much as I could - which wasn't very
much -
> I found that by gouging out the soft metal of the cylinder interior, I was
able
> to remove the key and get the lock working again. The cylinder is damaged
but
> functional, not sure how much more thievable it is. The part of the
cylinder
> that aligns with the key's teeth is still intact, but there's now a larger
> keyhole that one could insert lockpicks into.
>
> The original plan was to take the entire ignition cylinder housing out of
the
> car. But the housing was bolted to the steering column, and the bolts
were
> *circular* not hex-sided or socketed or anything. I have no idea what
kind of
> tool I'd use to remove these bolts. Some kind of circular rubber friction
> gripper thingy? Does anyone have any idea what kind of tool is required
to
> remove such bolts?
>
screws
> lying flush with the housing that don't have any heads. They seem
responsible
> for holding the lock cylinder in place. How the heck do you get these
things
> apart to extract the old lock cylinder and put a new one in?
>
> ignition. The ignition switch is held in place by 1 completely ordinary
screw.
> When pulled off, it's a simple matter to flick the circular switch and
start the
> engine. So I really don't understand why the act of taking out the
ignition
> cylinder housing was made so difficult.
>
Epluribust
> I'm not in need of that kind of advice, nor is it the kind of
>advice I give when talking about 3d graphics.
Hey
Why do new computers have that graphic sliding scale in the control
panel/system. A house blueprint program wouldnt run on my new compaq and I was
told to move the slider to the left and that fixed it. Will that slow down my
other stuff? If not what does it do?
Brandon Van Every
Epluribust <eplur...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991009200810...@ng-cf1.aol.com...
> >From: "Brandon Van Every" vane...@earthlink.net
>
> > I'm not in need of that kind of advice, nor is it the kind of
> >advice I give when talking about 3d graphics.
>
> Hey
> Why do new computers have that graphic sliding scale in the control
> panel/system.
Do you mean under Win98, Control Panel... System... Performance... Graphics, or
something else?
>A house blueprint program wouldnt run on my new compaq and I was
> told to move the slider to the left and that fixed it. Will that slow down my
> other stuff? If not what does it do?
In the selection sequence I described, there's a slider for "Hardware
Acceleration" that varies between "None" and "Full." To an engineer, it's
really silly to implement this as a slider because performance issues are not a
bunch of gradual things that you just slide from worse to better. Rather, there
are things you turn on/off that may/may not have an effect upon performance.
The "slider" idea simply gives a novice computer user an approximate idea that
performance will be worse/better if they slide the slider from left to right.
It's really a bunch of malarky. You'd always want to have the slider all the
way to the right, i.e. "Full" position, unless you notice that you've got a
problem with your 3D hardware. If you have a problem, you could try sliding it
one notch to the left, but it's nonsense and probably isn't going to do
anything.
Yes, it will slow down your other stuff. You're probably doing some kind of
horrible SW-based rendering by doing what they told you. The better answer is
to (1) get the latest driver for your video HW, (2) get better video HW. At the
rate video HW improves, doubling in performance every 6..9 months nowadays, that
shouldn't be too tough.
Phil Graziose
> > Brandon,
> > I believe you just had a little bad luck with an inexperienced
> > locksmith. I for one, have NEVER failed to remove a broken
> > key from ANY ignition lock, foreign or domestic. That skill
> > however, comes from over 28 years experience.
>
> > the turning of the electrical switch behind it.
> > It contains a spring loaded prong that engages the steering
> > wheel shaft. When engaged, it prevents the steering wheel from
> > turning. The shear headed bolts prevent tampering with this.
> > A fully functional assembly prevents the wheel from locking up
> > while driving. It also contains several interlock and safety
That "prong" is about 1" by 1/2"
> My problem seems to be that sometimes the mechanism refuses to *go* to the
> locked position while *parking* ? If so, then it would seem that I don't have a
> dangerous problem at all.
locking
Of course, the problem could have changed with my
> tampering.
>
> > I would take out a loan to get this fixed. Some things in a car
> > you can let slide, not this.
>
> Well, it may sound self-destructive, but I can't worry that much. The pot metal
> I removed from the front of the lock cylinder was so cheap that I don't think
> I've done much more than violate the aesthetics. Gloom and doom was pronounced
> when my rear brake cables were maybe not fully disengaging, and a $400 caliper
> replacement was deemed warranted. But as far as I can tell the cables and
snip
I
> think that was worth the time and effort I put into it. I didn't just
> gratuitously "screw up" the cylinder, I'm pretty sure it was screwed up before
> because it locked on me like this about a year ago. I just got lucky getting
> out of it that time, jiggling and patience worked.
Brandon;
it sounds like you have a bent wafer in your lock cylinder. the cylinder
itself should be fairly inexpensive to obtain (less than $35) the
housing on the other hand... you might try what most of us locksmiths do
when faced with a new type of lock we are not familiar with, go to a
junk yard and find a similar car and try to remove that one. Off the top
of my head I'm not sure if the cylinder can be removed from the housing
without removing the housing from the column.
Some of the early toyota ignitions can be removed by turning the key to
the ACC position and pushing a retaining pin (spring loaded) and pulling
the cylinder out. Others are held in place by spring steel roll pins and
it takes a bit of skill to get these out. The caveat here is (and it is
a HUGE caveat) there might be a little ball bearing and spring that come
out with the cylinder and these are part of the column locking
mechanism. They work to dog back the heavy column locking bolt while the
key is turned on to prevent the sterring column from locking while you
are driving down the road. I agree with some of the others here on the
forum that you had unfortunate luck because the technician that
responded to your call for help seems to have been lacking in experience
with these locks and the will to try to find out what needed to be done.
In the past when I have come accross new challenges that threatened to
stymie me I've done whatever I could to explore and solve the puzzle.
I'm sure that if you are as mechanically inclined as it would seem
(disassembling joysticks at an early age) you can figure out how to
remove those shear head bolts. I'll give you a hint but I won't spell it
out for you here on this public forum. There is no tool made
specifically to remove those bolts. I will say that last week I had the
opportunity to take an ignition out of a mid '80's Jag and the shear
head bolts were loose enough that I was able to take them out with just
my fingers of course this is the first time I've ever seen this. most of
the time they are very tight indeed.
Phil
Brandon Van Every
Phil Graziose <pg...@that.helicon.net> wrote in message
news:380227...@that.helicon.net...
>
> I'm sure that if you are as mechanically inclined as it would seem
> (disassembling joysticks at an early age) you can figure out how to
> remove those shear head bolts. I'll give you a hint but I won't spell it
> out for you here on this public forum. There is no tool made
> specifically to remove those bolts. I will say that last week I had the
> opportunity to take an ignition out of a mid '80's Jag and the shear
> head bolts were loose enough that I was able to take them out with just
> my fingers of course this is the first time I've ever seen this. most of
> the time they are very tight indeed.
> Phil
Well, I was thinking of putting a round piece of thin rubber inside of a
cylindrical wrench socket of sufficient clearance. Sorta like how you open a
jar that's become stuck, or the specialized tool used to extract spark plugs.
I'm not sure if there's enough clearance around the periphery of the bolt, but
there is indeed some clearance.
But the first trick is going to be getting a shop manual to see what the
"customary" way is.
lesh
>
> Thanks for the informative post! definitely a keeper for the save file.
>
> Phil Graziose <pg...@that.helicon.net> wrote in message
> news:380227...@that.helicon.net...
> >
> > I'm sure that if you are as mechanically inclined as it would seem
> > (disassembling joysticks at an early age) you can figure out how to
> > remove those shear head bolts. I'll give you a hint but I won't spell it
> > out for you here on this public forum. There is no tool made
> > specifically to remove those bolts. I will say that last week I had the
> > opportunity to take an ignition out of a mid '80's Jag and the shear
> > head bolts were loose enough that I was able to take them out with just
> > my fingers of course this is the first time I've ever seen this. most of
> > the time they are very tight indeed.
> > Phil
>
> Well, I was thinking of putting a round piece of thin rubber inside of a
> cylindrical wrench socket of sufficient clearance. Sorta like how you open a
> jar that's become stuck, or the specialized tool used to extract spark plugs.
> I'm not sure if there's enough clearance around the periphery of the bolt, but
> there is indeed some clearance.
>
> But the first trick is going to be getting a shop manual to see what the
> "customary" way is.
>
> Cheers, 3d graphics optimization jock
> Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA
>
> Experts eliminate the simpler mistakes in favor of the more
> complex ones, thereby achieving a higher degree of stupidity. :-)
a
"screw extractor" (like a left hand tap) to remove the bolt.
--
Politicians and diapers have one thing in common. They should both be
changed regularly, and for the same reason.
Brandon Van Every
lesh <le...@frii.com> wrote in message news:380239...@frii.com...
>
> Try drilling a hole into the exposed part of the bolt and using
> a "screw extractor" (like a left hand tap) to remove the bolt.
I wanted to go for the bonus points of not having to replace the bolt with a
new, unthievable one. :-) But if it turns out it's really easy to acquire new
bolts, then I could do it the way you suggest.
Epluribust
>I wanted to go for the bonus points of not having to replace the bolt with a
>new, unthievable one. :-)
Once you get the bolt out cut a groove across it and then grind down the edges
that you need to remove it, leaving only those required to tighten it. Its
easier done than said
Robert (Sierra123)
about the people that can die as a result. And I don't mean just him !
Rick wrote in message ...
> Please don't try to drive your car or any other after starting it by
>removing the switch from the back of the key cylinder as you described.
>There is a very real danger of the steering lock suddenly locking. That
part
>of the lock connects inside the housing that you couldn't get off because
of
>the shearbolts. Don't try to drive it unless there is a key in place
>switched to the on position. Go to your local dealership (Honda, Acura, VW,
>Mazda, Toyota, they all share this feature) . Ask to see one at the parts
>dept. (insert your fave subterfuge) and look inside the rounded cuff that
>fits on the steering shaft. You will find a small metal bar that is
extended
>when the key is removed and retracted when the key is in place. BTW, damage
>to the area of the keyhole as described can simulate a" key in the on
>position "condition and bypass the steering lock feature. This may shake
>loose over time and lock you up. Your insurance will not cover you if you
>are in an accident caused by your own tampering. Conversely, if there is
>sufficient damage to the key cylinder the steering may lock up even with
the
>key in and on. Spend the money. Think of it as an investment in continuing
>to have a future. I work on these daily, including removal, fitting
>keys,recoding, and removing broken keys. I won't share how to remove this
>lock or defeat any security features. Plenty of info already for the ones
>who have read your post and are off to steal a car on friday night. I dread
>the time when the little dastards steal planes to joyride 'til they run out
>of fuel.
>Brandon Van Every wrote in message
><7tme2d$agf$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>>
>>Tony Balestrieri <tbl...@execpc.com> wrote in message
>>news:37fea0aa$0$11...@news.execpc.com...
>>> you tell him!
>>
>>BTW your sanctimonious statements do nothing to make me wish to use the
>services
>>of your company, should such you have. One thing I will give the AAA
>Locksmith
>>guys credit for, their customer service training was impeccable.
>>
>>
Rick
Michael Reardon
1) Your Ford is a MAZDA product and uses Mazda locks.
2) The steering wheel lock is controlled by the lock housing assembly and
NOT by the electric switch mounted on the back.
If you feel you must drive the car AS IS at this point I strongly urge you
to pull the shear head bolts and remove the lock assembly from the column.
That way there is absolutley no danger of a lock-up occurring while driving.
A damaged Mazda ign lock assembly CAN lock up unexpectedly on you.
As far as the "AAA Locksmith" service that came out, they may have had their
own reasons for walking away, but at least they were decent enough not to
charge you. I also have a policy of "No Service - No Charge". If on
arrival we find that we cannot (or do not want) to provide the service we
were called out for, we do not charge the customer. If the dry run is due
to something the customer is responsible for, howver, we DO charge a service
call for just "driving the van up" as you put it.
--
Mike Reardon, Sr
Reardon's Lock & Safe
Lakeland, FL
Any job worth doing is worth doing right!
Brandon Van Every <vane...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7tobl9$1hg$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> > > Neither of these impediments have any functional effect on starting
the
> > > ignition. The ignition switch is held in place by 1 completely
ordinary
> screw.
> > > When pulled off, it's a simple matter to flick the circular switch and
start
> the
> > > engine. So I really don't understand why the act of taking out the
ignition
> > > cylinder housing was made so difficult.
> >
rlkwi...@gmail.com
> The "AAA Locksmith" guy probably took one look at what
> end up in a lawsuit.
>
>
> Our do-it-yourselfer didn't even recognize a shear-headed
> bolt when he saw it. The head of this bolt is designed to
> break off as it's torque spec is reached. It is an added
> security feature of the lock to prevent bypassing the
> steering wheel lockup.
>
> it again, the steering wheel locks up while doing 60 MPH
> on the highway. That will get your attention. How fast can
> you fix THAT as the car drifts towards a guard rail?
>
> you yet. I would suggest that you have it replaced at a dealer
> NOW. Any price is cheaper then a funeral.
>
> Midtown Locksmith, Inc.
>
>
> > > You have compromised the Security of your Car.
> >
> > Quite possible. On the other hand, in the course of trying to do it myself, I
> > learned how to hotwire my car by only removing 4 phillip screws from the
> > steering column! So I think the damage is more to perceived security than
> > actual security. I do hope that nobody looks in the window and says "Hmm,
> > partially broken lock, must be an easy mark!"
> >
> >
> > ignition switch mechanism is so simple to activate, that I don't understand why
> > to remove-and-manipulate circular switch. Not any more complicated than taking
> > apart a joystick for a game console.
> >
> > > Next time, consider calling a professional,
> >
> >
> > > it will save you time & $$$
> >
> > Well in the short run, no I don't think so. Someone should have a big ad in the
> > yellowpages that says "specializing in IGNITION key problems." All the big ads
> > were for house locks and opening car doors. After the complete boner the AAA
> > Locksmith guys pulled - I mean, the guy pulls out a variable-head screwdriver to
> > deal with the problem, no special tools at all - I wasn't really confident that
> >
> > dealer would surely have charged $65/hour for labor and $300 for the lock set,
> > those other locks is also more labor $$$.
> >
> > What I'd realy like to know now, is how cheap an aftermarket lock cylinder
> > prevent me from starting the car. So I can only go up in the world. But I'm
> > not accepting that this is a $300 part, or even a $100 part. I'm getting tired
> > of people charging $100 for every single piece of junk that breaks in my Ford
> > Probe. I'm happy to shop around and get wise to some of these problems, I've
> > got time now.
> >
> > Cheers, 3d graphics optimization jock
> > Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA
> >
> > Experts eliminate the simpler mistakes in favor of the more
> > complex ones, thereby achieving a higher degree of stupidity. :-)