About those master keys
Onstage
15 cars with them so far so they do exsist and they work
Putyourspamhere
>From: "Onstage" onsta...@hotmail.com
>Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
>Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:58:11 -0400
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>I have bought a set of ford master keys they work just fine we have repossed
>15 cars with them so far so they do exsist and they work
That's pretty amazing since ford vehicles are in no way master-keyed.
Steve
try-out keys.
Steve
"Onstage" <onsta...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f4b7562_1@newsfeed...
Putyourspamhere
>From: "Steve" kb9...@comcast.net
>Date: 8/27/2003 12:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <mz2dncBZAO7...@comcast.com>
I think he/she/it is BSing. Jigler keys/rocker picks don't have anything close
to a 100% success rate and they are way to slow for any repo person who has a
clue what he or she is doing. In short if you use them for repossession they
will get you shot, or at least screw up the repo if you are in a "peaceful
repossession" jurisdiction, which most areas are.
Glen Cooper
"Putyourspamhere" <putyour...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030827121647...@mb-m16.aol.com...
I like my 5 cut Ford try-out keys, H50 and H51, they work 100% so far. I
have others that work every time too.
My 10 cut ignition try-out keys have worked for me about 90-95% of the time.
If they dont then I progress.
I also like my 8 cut door keys. They work great on the cable locks like the
Focus.
The poster needs to learn the difference between master keys and try-out
keys. He also needs to learn to listen.
Henry E Schaffer
He/she/it doesn't say 15 out of how many. So maybe these were tried
on 1,500 cars and were successful for 15?
--
--henry schaffer
h...@ncsu.edu
Glen Cooper
"--Shiva--" <no...@abuse.net> wrote in message
news:bij6gt$17e$0...@63.78.119.106...
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:44:57 GMT, you wrote:
>
> >
> >My 10 cut ignition try-out keys have worked for me about 90-95% of the
time.
> >If they dont then I progress.
>
> need to drill.
> and I only drill as a last case... usually has a very stuck wafer
> in it, or someone did something to screw the sidebar up.
> I usually drill one a year, but have had a few 'maybe' failed
> cases, but some thorough cleaning it out with solvents, has
> usually resulted in getting it to turn...them get disassembled to
> see what is wrong inside..
> --Shiva--
> nuk pu nuk
>
Break cleaner?
Leon Rowell
http://showcase.netins.net/web/1rowellpage/images/Misc/GMlockBook.jpeg
(my web site)
But what do they know, right?
Leon Rowell
"Keyman"
fine we have repossed
> 15 cars with them so far so they do exsist and they work
>
no they don't exist.
no such thing as ford master keys.
maybe you bought tryout keys that will work on most of the
older 10 cut systems but not all...
they will not work on the more recent 8 cut systems. ?
my2ยข
--
"Key"
"Keyman"
news:bij6gt$17e$0...@63.78.119.106...
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:44:57 GMT, you wrote:
>
> >
90-95% of the time.
> >If they dont then I progress.
>
in the
> need to drill.
> and I only drill as a last case... usually has a very
stuck wafer
> in it, or someone did something to screw the sidebar up.
> I usually drill one a year, but have had a few 'maybe'
failed
> cases, but some thorough cleaning it out with solvents,
has
> usually resulted in getting it to turn...them get
disassembled to
> see what is wrong inside..
> --Shiva--
> nuk pu nuk
used to think the same thing.
however,
the 10 cut tryout keys will not work 100% of the time.
I have ran across two different 10 cut fords that the tryout
keys did not work on.
both were factory coded locks with no damage that needed
repair.
the working key turned out to be different from any in the
set.
--
"Key"
"Keyman"
news:3F4D66B2...@netins.net...
> Somebody forgot to tell Curtis Industries there was a
difference....
>
>
http://showcase.netins.net/web/1rowellpage/images/Misc/GMlockBook.jpeg
> (my web site)
>
> But what do they know, right?
>
> Leon Rowell
there used to be a pretty reliable set for the older gm's.
50's and 60's.
if I remember correctly ? there were 60 something keys.
don't remember them being called master key though.
my2ยข
--
"Key"
Putyourspamhere
>Date: 8/28/2003 1:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <Swg3b.1684$eG2.2...@twister.austin.rr.com>
In the case of the original poster time is the most significant problem.
Fiddling around with different tryouts is a good way to get shot if you're
repoing something. I know a couple guys that do it. They both use tow trucks
and if the car isn't blocked by something can hook it so fast that if you blink
you'll miss it.
"Keyman"
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:35:46 GMT, you wrote:
>
> >
> >the 10 cut tryout keys will not work 100% of the time.
> >I have ran across two different 10 cut fords that the
tryout
> >keys did not work on.
> >both were factory coded locks with no damage that needed
> >repair.
> >the working key turned out to be different from any in
the
> >set.
> >
> >--
> >"Key"
>
they didn't show any signs of being drilled.
however, stranger thing have happened..
should have written a book :-)
> this reminds me of the local Chevy dealer...
> a brand new S10... key worked the rt door, and ign, but
NOT the
> left door...
> they pulled it out, and I repinned it properly, and
everyone was
> happy...
> 2 weeks LATER... ahd another one... except the right door
> wouldnt work... guess what, it was pinned the sasme as the
1 from
> 2 weeks back...
> I always wondered who got the ignition lock out of the
set....
>
> --Shiva--
heard that !!
g'day
----
"Key"
"Keyman"
heard that..
have some wreaker friends myself..
--
"Key"
mark hoffman
Cleveland 17, Ohio??
zone number.. printed in the days before ZIPCODE......
way back in the early 1960's
nobody else notice that?
"Leon Rowell" <leo...@netins.net> wrote in message
news:3F4D66B2...@netins.net...
---
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Leon Rowell
any more....
Leon
--Shiva-- wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:19:30 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>>Somebody forgot to tell Curtis Industries there was a difference....
>>
>>http://showcase.netins.net/web/1rowellpage/images/Misc/GMlockBook.jpeg
>>(my web site)
>>
>>But what do they know, right?
>>
>>Leon Rowell
>
>
> I would imagine that its for an OLD? car?
> meaning the 50/60's?
>
> just making a guess... cause I have not seen tryout keys listed
> from them lately...
> in fact its hard to find ANYTHING from them any more...
> 5 phone calls the other day, ended up talking to a guy 15 miles
> away, the company rep, and he wouldn't give a straight answer...
>
> --Shiva--
>
>
Leon Rowell
You are darn close. There were 64 keys in the set. Some books called them Master
Keys and some books called them Tryout Keys.
Leon
Leon Rowell
Leon
Leon Rowell
time frame.
Leon
Glen Cooper
that explains the proper definition of both terms;
http://www.locksoft.com/gloscopy.htm
master key
n. 1. a key which operates all the master keyed locks or cylinders in a
group, each lock or cylinder usually operated by its own change key, 2. v.
to combinate a group of locks or cylinders such that each is operated by its
own change key as well as by a master key for the entire group, 3. n. an
automotive key which operates all or most locks on a vehicle where there is
also a valet key employed
try-out key
n. a manipulation key which is usually part of a set, used for a specific
series, keyway, and/or brand of lock
Leon Rowell
That doesn't mean the old definitions and meanings are wrong as some folks
suggest....
Leon Rowell
Stormin Mormon
four depths, six spaces. So it works out to 64 tryout keys. I made my own,
and have used them a couple times.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
.
.
""Keyman"" <M...@Ya.net> wrote in message
news:mDg3b.1723$eG2.2...@twister.austin.rr.com...
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
.
.
"mark hoffman" <hoff...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:_cs3b.334$L6....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
d...@tanj.com
>
> I think he/she/it is BSing. Jigler keys/rocker picks don't have anything close
> to a 100% success rate and they are way to slow for any repo person who has a
> clue what he or she is doing. In short if you use them for repossession they
> will get you shot, or at least screw up the repo if you are in a "peaceful
> repossession" jurisdiction, which most areas are.
That's a curious phrase (peaceful repossession jurisdiction).
What's it mean?
Thanks.
Daniel
David Ames
I think he means "not in Texas," where repossessors can be shot on sight.
David Ames
Putyourspamhere
>Date: 8/28/2003 5:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3F4E6E4...@netins.net>
>
>That's just my point, new words are coined and meanings are changed every day
>That doesn't mean the old definitions and meanings are wrong as some folks
>suggest....
>
>Leon Rowell
The world was once believed flat. If you state that it is so today you will be
frequently corrected. The same is true if you use, among people in the lock and
locksmithing industries the term master key to refer to what is really a jiggle
key, tryout key, rocker/snake pick.
Putyourspamhere
>Date: 8/29/2003 1:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <FAB3b.292169$uu5.63745@sccrnsc04>
Peaceful repossesion just means just that, the repossession must be peaceful.
If the repossession disturbs the peace the repossesor must cease his/her
actions, e.g. you cannot engage in a fist fight or even a screaming match in
the middle of the street with the cars owner in order to recover it. This is
one of the reasons most repo people work late at night and do everything
possible to avoid ANY contact with the cars owner during the actual repo.
Putyourspamhere
>Date: 8/29/2003 8:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <f79f061c.03082...@posting.google.com>
That statement is not true. It is not even entirely true under the letter of
Texas law if you apply it to car thieves. All statutes I have seen indicate one
must be in fear of ones life or safety before using deadly force. If you know
of a statute authorizing deadly force SOLEY for protection of property please
cite it. Note that such a statute would allow the use of boobytraps unless
specifically prohibiting them. It is worth noting that AFAIK Texas law and
some other states do not require retreat until no longer possible before deadly
force is utilized. An example of one that does require it would be the workers
paradise of MD.
Putyourspamhere
>Date: 8/28/2003 4:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3F4E63AE...@netins.net>
The thing is people always call repo people sleazy, but the fact of the matter
is if you make your payments on time your car is not going to get repo'ed. The
repossesors just perform a needed service. What would happen to the financial
system if anyone could default on a loan at anytime and the lender was simply
out of luck?
"Keyman"
http://www.bakers-legal-pages.com/pc/0942.htm
Texas
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect
land or tangible, movable property:
~ ~ (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
~ ~ (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
~ ~ ~ (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during
the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
~ ~ ~ (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately
after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or
theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property;
and
~ ~ (3) he reasonably believes that:
~ ~ ~ (A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
~ ~ ~ (B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the
actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious
bodily injury.
in the above.
wouldn't the use of deadly force apply ?
--
"Key"
Onstage
with in most cases we get a working key from the bank that contracts us .
""Keyman"" <M...@Ya.net> wrote in message
Glen Cooper
""Keyman"" <K...@Ya.net> wrote in message
news:8RO3b.1424$sl.7...@twister.austin.rr.com...
Here in Texas if you catch someone stealing your stuff like the story in the
following link you can shoot to kill them, no problem. This is just one
story from todays paper of Texas justice. I dont know how long it will be
up.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2072305
Generally the statute Keyman discribes as applied to repo men would come
into play at nite and when the car owner does not know the repo man isn't a
thief.
A few weeks ago a car owner was no billed, not indicted by a grand jury, in
a case involving a wrecker driver backing up and hooking up to the mans'
car. The man killed the wrecker driver and got away with it because he was
not informed of the attempted reposession.
Make no mistake, here we can kill people for stealing our stuff. The link
discribes a man that came home from a fishing trip this morning to find a
robber in his house digging through his gun collection. He chased the
robber accross the street and shot him dead in the middle of the road. The
law said no problem.
"Keyman"
news:%7U3b.119301$0v4.8...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
thats what I thought.
--
"Key"
"Keyman"
still,
they are not master keys..
--
"Key"
Leon Rowell
Leon Rowell
Putyourspamhere
>Message-id: <3F50B84A...@netins.net>
>
>Ever hear of "common sense".....
>
>Leon Rowell
>
Your statement doesn't really address what I said. That aside a good example of
common sense would be simply using the correct and established termonology
instead of sticking dogedly to a term which 98+% of people in a given term
related profession would consider to be inaccurate. You wouldn't hear a surgeon
refer to his or her scalpel as razor blade knife.
Putyourspamhere
>Date: 8/29/2003 4:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <8RO3b.1424$sl.7...@twister.austin.rr.com>
It appears I stand corrected. I do at the same time see two possible pitfalls:
>and
>~ ~ (3) he reasonably believes that:
>~ ~ ~ (A) the land or property cannot be protected or
>recovered by any other means;
This might tend to put you in danger of prosecution if you failed to give
warning before using deadly force, since giving warning might reasonably cause
a criminal to cease his actions, however
> or
>~ ~ ~ (B) the use of force other than deadly force to
>protect or recover the land or property would expose the
>actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious
>bodily injury.
would tend to mitigate that concern if you had any reason at all to believe
that the criminal were armed since giving warning could reasonably put you at
risk.
The other pitfall is contained in:
"
Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession
of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against
another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is
immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land
or unlawful interference with the property.
~ (b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by
another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree
the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the
land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in
fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
~ ~ (1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he
dispossessed the actor; or
~ ~ (2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or
fraud against the actor.
"
specifically 9.41 b 1.
To wit:
~ ~ (1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he
dispossessed the actor;
Obviously a repossessor would have "claim of right". If the person using deadly
force knew his or her car was going to be repossessed and it could be proven
then the person using deadly force could lose protection under the statute.
Note that in order to be protected under 9.42 one must meet all of the
criterion under 9.41. Obviously that still wouldn't protect a car thief though.
Too bad every states laws on self defense don't read like those of Texas.
cashcroft
Hardware store clients to believe they are.
Phil
cashcroft
Phil
cashcroft
Putyourspamhere wrote:
>
> >Subject: Re: About those master keys
> >From: Leon Rowell leo...@netins.net
> >Date: 8/30/2003 10:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <3F50B84A...@netins.net>
> >
> >Ever hear of "common sense".....
> >
> >Leon Rowell
> >
>
> Your statement doesn't really address what I said. That aside a good example of
> common sense would be simply using the correct and established termonology
> instead of sticking dogedly to a term which 98+% of people in a given term
> related profession would consider to be inaccurate. You wouldn't hear a surgeon
> refer to his or her scalpel as razor blade knife.
>
Or Xacto Knife..
Phil
Leon Rowell
Leon
Leon Rowell
Leon
Putyourspamhere
>Message-id: <3F5220F7...@netins.net>
>
>My doctor calls it a surgical knife. Is he right or wrong?
>
>Leon
>
Well at least with your doctors terminology there isn't much room for confusion
since I don't think there is another surgical implement other than a scalpel
which would be termed a surgical knife. Such is not the case with master key
where the term already has a clear and widely accepted meaning within this
trade. The fact that everytime this subject comes up on this board there is an
overwhelming agreement among the majority of posters with regard to what a
master key is and what it is not should be enough to convince you that the term
does not apply to tryout or jiggle keys, nor to a set of keys cut to all
possible combinations to operate a specific make, model of lock.
Putyourspamhere
>Message-id: <3F5220F7...@netins.net>
>
>My doctor calls it a surgical knife. Is he right or wrong?
PS Why take the time to say surgical knife when you could just say scalpel?
d...@tanj.com
> Just for those that are interested there is a good locksmith dictionary link
> that explains the proper definition of both terms;
>
> http://www.locksoft.com/gloscopy.htm
Isn't it clear by now where this difference of opinion comes from?
It's quite clear to me that, as a kid, I was taught that a master
key was a magical device that would open all the locks in the world.
Detectives and crooks used them to access otherwise impregnable areas.
Most of the population was probably taught that at some time or another.
As a locksmith, I learned that within the trade it means a key that will
open a specific set of locks.
So why argue over the terminology? Anyone who uses the term to mean
a magic key is simply not a locksmith. Anyone who uses the term who is
a locksmith will be clearly understood.
A locksmith who mis-uses the term should, of course, be boiled in oil. :-)
Daniel
Leon Rowell
Leon
Leon Rowell
OOops!, Did I say that....? Sorry ladies & kids.
Leon
Leon Rowell
I just have a problem with the folks that come here and use it when asking a
question (which happens once in a blue moon) getting raked over the coals about
it. Yeah, I know, educating the public and all, but once the poster leaves here
after posting "both" of his messages he isn't going to give a crap anyway....
Leon Rowell
cashcroft
calling something like a bone saw a scalpel or even better, if they kept
wanting to call an otoscope a borescope. Both are optical devices and
have similar uses and even occasionally share the same type of handle
for the batteries. They are similar but distinct.
Phil
Leon Rowell
they might as well call it that....
Leon
Glen Cooper
> The only thing I can tell you is that the Colonoscopy feels like a bore
scope so
> they might as well call it that....
>
> Leon
>
My buddy got one from a doctor to open safes with. It'll even show you your
own ear wax. BTW, just turned that age myself, OOOUCH!!!@
Putyourspamhere
>Isn't it clear by now where this difference of opinion comes from?
>
>It's quite clear to me that, as a kid, I was taught that a master
>key was a magical device that would open all the locks in the world.
>Detectives and crooks used them to access otherwise impregnable areas.
>Most of the population was probably taught that at some time or another.
Well in some cases when dealing with warded locks the term master key is
essentially correct. One key will open a number of differently keyed locks with
little or no manipulation. A skelontonized master padlock key comes to mind.
Putyourspamhere
>Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:05:09 -0500
>Organization: netINS, Inc.
>Message-ID: <3F5254F5...@netins.net>
>
>
>That's why I never say I'm a locksmith..... ;^)
>I just have a problem with the folks that come here and use it when asking a
>question (which happens once in a blue moon) getting raked over the coals
>about
>it. Yeah, I know, educating the public and all, but once the poster leaves
>here
>after posting "both" of his messages he isn't going to give a crap anyway....
>
>Leon Rowell
>
>
There are people who think that automobiles are truely master keyed. i.e. that
there is a magic key out there that will start or open all of them with no
manipulation required.
Putyourspamhere
>He has a lisp. Maybe he just has more trouble saying scalpel.... ;^)
>
>Leon
>
LOL. Ok maybe.
Putyourspamhere
>
> I think an analogy in the medical theater would be if some insisted in
>calling something like a bone saw a scalpel or even better, if they kept
>wanting to call an otoscope a borescope. Both are optical devices and
>have similar uses and even occasionally share the same type of handle
>for the batteries. They are similar but distinct.
>Phil
You're right. In retrospect my analogy was not the best.
cashcroft
He asked why and I told him he called me a "skirt" we both had a good laugh.
Phil
cashcroft
at Chief Wiggam's house and took the "Town Master Key" LOL
Phil
Glen Cooper
"cashcroft" <magickm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F553558...@hotmail.com...
> Kind of like that episode of the Simpsons where Bart stayed over night
> at Chief Wiggam's house and took the "Town Master Key" LOL
> Phil
>
Now that was a key. Ten cuts if I recall, flat steel double sided, lever
tumbler design, even worked the prison electric chair. I'd like to get that
masterkeying contract in Springfield but I can't figure out what state it
was.
Putyourspamhere
>Date: 9/2/2003 9:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <lQb5b.126038$3o3.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
I think the Simpsons creators intentionally avoided giving any impression of
what state it was ficticiously located in to avoid being sued.