97 GMC C6500
Bob De Weese
truck). He says (I haven't seen it) that it uses a single sided key and
the the collumn is similar to the standard Saganaw(sp?) collumn but
there is no lock plate. He can't figure out how to depress the "collar"
beneath the ring clip to be able to remove the ring clip. Since there's
no lock plate, there's nothing for the lock plate compressor to push
against.
Any ideas???????
--
Bob De Weese
Certified Professional Locksmith
bear...@bigfoot.com
*******************************************************************
* "The secret to effective communication is knowing what to say, *
* how to say it, and whom to say it to." *
*******************************************************************
Wayne
ignition. I'm going to assume it uses the MATS system. Mechanical
Anti-Theft System. High Tech put out a video on this, and I think it was
covered in the National or Ledger a few years ago. Sorry I can't be more
help. Wayne Wayne's Locks and Etc.
Bob De Weese wrote in message <36E46C...@bigfoot.com>...
Bob De Weese
> Loosen the screws and remove the
> guard. Now you can compress and remove the lock
> plate just like on a standard column. I highly recommend
> "The National Locksmith Guide to Steering Column Service".
> I think it is a must have for an automotive locksmith. JB
No.... According to Richard, there IS NO lock plate. MATS was the
first thing I thought of too but, nope.
Bob De Weese
>
> How about the small diameter tool for that other fancy column??
> Steve Young made one, can't remember the NAME of that column but it
> was used for the non saginaw equipped cars...
Do you mean the "Stramer Tool"? I think that was for square (Berretta)
collumns. I've had one for years and never used it. I wonder if it
would work. I'll have to go dig it out.
Jim Parrie
Bob De Weese wrote:
> A friend of mine needs to replace the ign cyl on a 1997 GMC C 6500 (BIG
> truck). He says (I haven't seen it) that it uses a single sided key and
> the the collumn is similar to the standard Saganaw(sp?) collumn but
> there is no lock plate. He can't figure out how to depress the "collar"
> beneath the ring clip to be able to remove the ring clip. Since there's
> no lock plate, there's nothing for the lock plate compressor to push
> against.
>
> Any ideas???????
>
I just love answering this one :-)
What your friend needs is a Kent Moore tool, part number J23653-91A. It
looks a lot like the lock plate that you remove from a standard Saginaw
column, but it is made from thicker steel, has a larger diameter center hole
(with no splines), no teeth around the perimeter for sterring lock pin, and
is ground flat on the side opposite the hole for the nose of the canceling
cam.
In a pinch he could hack out substitute from a standard lock plate, but I
would recccomend buyng the real deal.
Can be seen at www.1-800-pdq-keys.com/tool.htm
--
Jim Parrie
Old Capitol Lock Services
www.1-800-pdq-keys.com
Jim Parrie
JB wrote:
> I looked at it and I have never seen anything like it before. Can you
> elaborate a little about what this tool does? Also, does this column
> lock? How does it work? Are these columns used only on large GM
> trucks? Any info will be appreciated. JB
Hi John,
I enjoyed the updates and photos from your vacation, thanks!
The column in question is used on the GM Topkick and Kodiac trucks. There is no
locking plate, but there is a turn signal canceling cam that is somewhat
different in design than we are accustomed to. It is held against a compression
spring by a snap ring much like the standard column (less the lock plate). The
tool is used along with a U shaped lock plate compressor to compress the
canceling cam for snap ring removal.
Kent Moore claims that this tool is used on 1991 J-cars as well. I have never
seen a J-car with this style of column, so I can't comment on that.
It is a good tool to have if you do fleet work, or see many rental trucks.
(U-Haul, Ryder, etc).
Jim Parrie
JB wrote:
> On 9 Mar 1999 01:30:34 GMT, ddd...@aol.com (Dddlock) wrote:
>
> >If it does in fact use a 609530, it is NOT a MATS ign. I never tore one down,
> >the one time I had to make keys for one, I peeled the pass. door and decoded
> >the cyl. It was a one key vehicle H key opened everything (fleet vehicle) like
> >a police car. I read somewhere the new ones might have VATS, not MATS, the MATS
> >lock is a different model than the 609530, don't know it off the top of my
> >head, it has a little more meat on it most likely for pull resistance.
> >
> > Dave
>
> Dave:
> It turns out you were correct. This is a paragraph from The National
> Locksmith, June 1993, "GM MATS Column":
>
> Not visually different is the ignition cylinder. A newer
> version using a stronger sidebar is being used,
> although it is dimensionally the same. These changes
> were made to prevent the forcible turning of the plug.
> The Briggs & Stratton part numbers are: Chrome -
> 701759, black - 701986. The standard bolt retained
> ignitions (chrome - 609530, black - 700580) can be
> used if necessary.
>
> I was going by the appearance of the lock and they do look the same.
> In fact, they are interchangeable. I won't be so quick to jump to
> conclusions in the future.....well, at least for a few weeks anyway :)
> Sorry for the error. JB
John,
They are only interchangeable in that you can put a standard lock in a MATS column.
You can't put a MATS lock in a standard column.
Well...... maybe with a big hammer :)
Dddlock
JB
<bear...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>A friend of mine needs to replace the ign cyl on a 1997 GMC C 6500 (BIG
>truck). He says (I haven't seen it) that it uses a single sided key and
>the the collumn is similar to the standard Saganaw(sp?) collumn but
>there is no lock plate. He can't figure out how to depress the "collar"
>beneath the ring clip to be able to remove the ring clip. Since there's
>no lock plate, there's nothing for the lock plate compressor to push
>against.
>
>Any ideas???????
>
This is a MATS (Mechanical Anti-Theft System) column.
To remove the guard it is necessary to turn the steering
shaft so that the block tooth (wide area between shaft
grooves) is at the 7 o'clock position. In order to turn the
shaft you need to depress the lock bolt accessible through
the hole in the guard at the 11 o'clock position. They
make a special tool (BT91108 Lock Bolt Depressor) to do
this but you can improvise. They also make a special tool
(BT9213 Turning Socket) to turn the shaft but you can use
padding and vice grips to turn it; just don't mess up the
splines. Once the block tooth is at the 7 o'clock position
the two T15 torx screws are accessible through the two
holes in the guard. Loosen the screws and remove the
JB
Actually, the MATS does use a 609530 ignition lock. I did one on a
large Grumman van with a GM MATS column. Also, I am looking at a
photo of one being pulled out of a MATS column in my steering column
manual. JB
JB
<bear...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>No.... According to Richard, there IS NO lock plate. MATS was the
>first thing I thought of too but, nope.
I can't imagine what else it could be, although I have not done a lot
of big truck work. I will guess (?) that it is a MATS and the guard
has disguised the locking plate so your friend dose not recognize it
as such. But then again, it could be something I am not familiar
with. Good Luck and be sure and let us know what it turns out to be.
JB
JB
---) wrote:
>Hey Bob... Don't feel bad, I need the codes/cuts for the 98/99 ford
>rangers spare tires. and nobody seems to have THAT list yet, either.
>
>Unfortunately, the local Ford dealer has 1 with NO KEY, and that's a
>very LOOONNNGGG key.
I saw a picture of that key in the latest Locksmith Ledger. You're
right, that Ilco H83F is unbelievably long. It say the codes are
F001-F025 but I don't have them. This would be a verrrry interesting
key to impression. Good Luck and you have to let us know the outcome.
JB
JB
<lock...@qualityservice.com> wrote:
>What your friend needs is a Kent Moore tool, part number J23653-91A. It
>looks a lot like the lock plate that you remove from a standard Saginaw
>column, but it is made from thicker steel, has a larger diameter center hole
>(with no splines), no teeth around the perimeter for sterring lock pin, and
>is ground flat on the side opposite the hole for the nose of the canceling
>cam.
>
>In a pinch he could hack out substitute from a standard lock plate, but I
>would recccomend buyng the real deal.
>
>Can be seen at www.1-800-pdq-keys.com/tool.htm
I looked at it and I have never seen anything like it before. Can you
JB
>If it does in fact use a 609530, it is NOT a MATS ign. I never tore one down,
>the one time I had to make keys for one, I peeled the pass. door and decoded
>the cyl. It was a one key vehicle H key opened everything (fleet vehicle) like
>a police car. I read somewhere the new ones might have VATS, not MATS, the MATS
>lock is a different model than the 609530, don't know it off the top of my
>head, it has a little more meat on it most likely for pull resistance.
>
JB
<lock...@qualityservice.com> wrote:
>They are only interchangeable in that you can put a standard lock in a MATS column.
>You can't put a MATS lock in a standard column.
>
>Well...... maybe with a big hammer :)
Thanks, Jim. I was going to order one of these super locks for my van
but I don't think I will now. I might not have a big enough hammer :)
JB
JB
<lock...@qualityservice.com> wrote:
>The column in question is used on the GM Topkick and Kodiac trucks. There is no
>locking plate, but there is a turn signal canceling cam that is somewhat
>different in design than we are accustomed to. It is held against a compression
>spring by a snap ring much like the standard column (less the lock plate). The
>tool is used along with a U shaped lock plate compressor to compress the
>canceling cam for snap ring removal.
>
>Kent Moore claims that this tool is used on 1991 J-cars as well. I have never
>seen a J-car with this style of column, so I can't comment on that.
>
>It is a good tool to have if you do fleet work, or see many rental trucks.
>(U-Haul, Ryder, etc).
Thanks a bunch, Jim. This has been a very interesting and educational
thread. I have probably torn down a couple of hundred steering
columns including round, square, tilt, telscoping, airbag, MATS, and
VATS. I thought I knew them pretty well but I have never seen, heard,
or read about this one. Now I am going to order this tool in case I
ever run into one. It is a lot better to be surprised by reading
about it rather than be surprised by one in the field and not have the
tool. That is the good thing about this newsgroup. Thanks again, JB
Jim Parrie
JB wrote:
> Now I am going to order this tool in case I
> ever run into one. It is a lot better to be surprised by reading
> about it rather than be surprised by one in the field and not have the
> tool.
Hey JB........ You forgot the part about it being 10:30 at night and pouring rain!
Dddlock
not vice versa
Dave