Humidity in Fire Safe
Bill Steinberg
I just bought a Gardall fire safe (an 1812E), and I have a couple of
questions about the internal humidity. Though I plan on storing mostly
paper items in the safe, I do have a small knife collection, and there are
some other steel items I would like to keep in the safe.
The instructions that came with the safe indicate that I should leave the
safe open for the first two weeks, to allow (some of the?) moisture to
leach out of the walls. I am doing this, but my dealer also warned me that
I should oil all of my knives before storing them in the safe, even after
leaving the door open for two weeks.
Well, I can oil the knives, but I certainly don't want to oil a camera, or
some of the other items I may want to keep in the safe from time to time.
I can enclose a metal item in a platic bag, and put a silica gel pack in
with it, but that's inconvenient (and I don't have that many silica gel
packs).
How much moisture can I expect to leach from the safe walls after the two
weeks with the safe door open? If I don't open the safe for a week, can I
expect the humidity be very high (over 70%)? Will a couple of (cigarette
pack size) silica gel packs be enough to keep this under control, and will
I have to renew the silica gel packs every month (in an oven)?
I would appreciate any insights about this.
Thanks
Bill S
Ballistic1
Gel packs are cheap and can be re-activated in your oven. The instructions
should be on the side of the gel pack. It should also say on the pack how
many cubic inches of space it's good for. A Gardall 1812 is about 2800
cubic inches. Let me know if you need any more info as I am a Gardall
dealer.
Bill Steinberg
In article <50a16s$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, balli...@aol.com
(Ballistic1) wrote:
The safe came with 1 silica gel pack, which I put in the oven (at the
right temperature and for the right length of time), and which is now in
the safe again. I suppose I could order a few more from my Gardall dealer,
if necessary.
Since I want to store some steel objects in the safe, what I was really
looking for was some information from those who have some real world
experience with humidity in fire safes in general, and the Gardall (Model
1812, about 2600 cubic inches inside) fire safe in particular.
The instructions say to leave the safe door open for the first two weeks.
Does leaving the safe door open the first two weeks allow most of the
moisture in the walls to dissipate? After the two weeks have passed, how
long will the one silica gel pack keep the safe at less than, say, 70%
humidity? Are there any tricks/suggestions to keeping the humidity down
(inside the safe) in general?
I don't want to drill a hole in the safe and put a light bulb inside...
(or I just would have purchased the Gardall pistol safe in the first
place. I do want a fire rated safe, for the other stuff I plan on storing
in there).
Bill S
ps I did stick a humidity meter (I forget what it's called) in the safe,
and I plan on keeping an eye on it...
The Brass Key Shop
Do not drill a hole in the safe and use a light bulb. The hole will
destroy the fire rating and the bulb will cause MORE humidity not less.
After two weeks most of the humidity is trapped in the composite material
that is used in the walls. A gel pack or two should keep it down
nicely. In case of a fire, a fire safe will release the water in the
composite material into the safe in the form of steam. This takes more
heat to reach burning temperature, so the temp in the safe stays lower
protecting the papers. Putting a light bulb in the safe raises the temp
and causes the composite to give off more humidity.
Bill Mandlebaum, CPL
lgr...@msegroup.com
silica jel containers to remove the moisture that can be refreshed by drying in an oven. I would suggest that you also
get a moisture indicator that can be placed in the safe. This will warn you when the moisture in the air is getting to high.
I have a large fire safe in my home with papers, photos, etc. I use ziplok bags to hold items and I have silicajel packets
in each bag. If the contents are valuable and can be damaged by excessive moisture, I put an indicator in the bag.
I have stored weapons, knives, etc., in this safe but I have taken the additional precautions with each item I would
suggest that you adhere to the side of safety and do the same.
Lee Griggs
AA Protech Lock & Safe
e...@dev.null
bi...@panix.com (Bill Steinberg) writes:
>I just bought a Gardall fire safe (an 1812E), and I have a couple of
>questions about the internal humidity. Though I plan on storing mostly
>paper items in the safe, I do have a small knife collection, and there are
>some other steel items I would like to keep in the safe.
>
>The instructions that came with the safe indicate that I should leave the
>safe open for the first two weeks, to allow (some of the?) moisture to
>leach out of the walls. I am doing this, but my dealer also warned me that
>I should oil all of my knives before storing them in the safe, even after
>leaving the door open for two weeks.
Oil lasts ~1 year. For longer protection, use cosmoline (or plain old
vaseline).
>Well, I can oil the knives, but I certainly don't want to oil a camera, or
>some of the other items I may want to keep in the safe from time to time.
>I can enclose a metal item in a platic bag, and put a silica gel pack in
>with it, but that's inconvenient (and I don't have that many silica gel
>packs).
You can buy large chunks of silica gel to soak up moisture in the
entire safe.
>How much moisture can I expect to leach from the safe walls after the two
>weeks with the safe door open? If I don't open the safe for a week, can I
>expect the humidity be very high (over 70%)? Will a couple of (cigarette
>pack size) silica gel packs be enough to keep this under control, and will
>I have to renew the silica gel packs every month (in an oven)?
A better solution for rust protection is to simply keep a 15W lightbulb
(approx, for a 25-50 cu-ft safe. Use less wattage for smaller area)
lit all the time. This will slightly heat the air inside, effectively
lowering the relative humidity. The air heats the metal parts which
then becomes less of an attractive place for water vapor to condense.
(Like the heated bathroom mirrors).
For more info on this, check out the gun safe FAQ at:
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~eap/safe
My REAL email address is:
e...@everest.stanford.edu If you are one of those jerks searching the
internet to find places to send junkmail to, then I will bill you
a $500 fee for receiving your junkmail. Sending a message unrelated to
this post to the above email address signifies your consent to pay the
$500 fee.
(Is everyone else getting a mailbox full of junkmail these days?)
-Eric
aa-2@deltanet.com@deltanet.com
In <50igbs$j...@nntp.Stanford.EDU>, e...@dev.null writes:
>
>A better solution for rust protection is to simply keep a 15W lightbulb
>(approx, for a 25-50 cu-ft safe. Use less wattage for smaller area)
>lit all the time. This will slightly heat the air inside, effectively
>lowering the relative humidity. The air heats the metal parts which
>then becomes less of an attractive place for water vapor to condense.
>(Like the heated bathroom mirrors).
>
Um, I sure hope you didn't drill a hole through the side of the safe to
get the wires to that light bulb inside the safe...
Rick
e...@dev.null wrote:
>Oil lasts ~1 year. For longer protection, use cosmoline (or plain old
>vaseline).
Put your valuables in a plastic bag. This will protect them from the
safe's moisture. If necesary wrap the item in cloth first to protect
it from the plastic.
>You can buy large chunks of silica gel to soak up moisture in the
>entire safe.
I wouldn't recommend this. The safe requires moisture retained in the
walls in order to protect from fire. Silica gel may draw moisture
from the safe walls reducing or eventually eliminating your safe's
fire resistance.
>A better solution for rust protection is to simply keep a 15W lightbulb
>(approx, for a 25-50 cu-ft safe. Use less wattage for smaller area)
>lit all the time. This will slightly heat the air inside, effectively
>lowering the relative humidity. The air heats the metal parts which
>then becomes less of an attractive place for water vapor to condense.
>(Like the heated bathroom mirrors).
Again, I wouldn't recommend this for the same reasons as silica gel.
Rick Streifel, JCL
Al Scott Lock & Safe Ltd.
lock...@smartt.com
N 49.16.34.2
W123.01.36.9
e...@dev.null
lock...@smartt.com (Rick) writes:
>e...@dev.null wrote:
>
>
>>Oil lasts ~1 year. For longer protection, use cosmoline (or plain old
>>vaseline).
>
>Put your valuables in a plastic bag. This will protect them from the
>safe's moisture. If necesary wrap the item in cloth first to protect
>it from the plastic.
I wouldn't wrap a metal item in cloth, as the cloth will retain
moisture and hold it in contact with the item.
(Specifically, this procedure is warned against by all major
firearms manufacturers, unless using a specially treated cloth. An
oil soaked rag will NOT be good.)
>>You can buy large chunks of silica gel to soak up moisture in the
>>entire safe.
>
>I wouldn't recommend this. The safe requires moisture retained in the
>walls in order to protect from fire. Silica gel may draw moisture
>from the safe walls reducing or eventually eliminating your safe's
>fire resistance.
>
>Again, I wouldn't recommend this for the same reasons as silica gel.
Yep, I forgot that he was talking about one of the waterjacketed
containers.
-Eric (My real email address is e...@everest.stanford.edu. However,
if you decide to send junkmail, unrelated to this posting, to
the above address, you agree to pay me $500 for receiving your
mail. By sending email to this account, you agree to pay the
fee. Please fight junkmail on the internet!)
Lee Most
bi...@panix.com (Bill Steinberg) wrote:
>Since I want to store some steel objects in the safe, what I was really
>looking for was some information from those who have some real world
>experience with humidity in fire safes in general, and the Gardall (Model
>1812, about 2600 cubic inches inside) fire safe in particular.
Probably the best thing is those resealable Ziplock bags, which come in a
variety of sizes. Get the freezer ones, which are a bit tougher. Then you
don't have to worry about the humidity at all.
>The instructions say to leave the safe door open for the first two weeks.
>Does leaving the safe door open the first two weeks allow most of the
>moisture in the walls to dissipate? After the two weeks have passed, how
>long will the one silica gel pack keep the safe at less than, say, 70%
>humidity? Are there any tricks/suggestions to keeping the humidity down
>(inside the safe) in general?
As I mentioned in a post here last week, the humidity in the insulation in the
walls of the safe is the only thing that keeps the contents cool in case of a
fire. That's how safes work. So when the humidity is completely gone (which
takes either about 40 years or a fire :-) then it's time to get a new safe.
>I don't want to drill a hole in the safe and put a light bulb inside...
>(or I just would have purchased the Gardall pistol safe in the first
>place. I do want a fire rated safe, for the other stuff I plan on storing
>in there).
>Bill S
>ps I did stick a humidity meter (I forget what it's called) in the safe,
>and I plan on keeping an eye on it...
\ | | / | Lee Most | "There were 2 elephants in a
-- Lee -- | San Francisco, CA | bathtub, see... Oh, well, I
/ | | \ | lee...@mail.sfpcug.org | guess you had to be there!"
Joe Kesselman
In <52aggt$n...@myrddin.imat.com>, lee...@mail.sfpcug.org (Lee Most) writes:
>>how long will the one silica gel pack keep the safe at less than, say, 70%
>>humidity?
Just a thought: If the silica gel is in a package that permits doing so,
I'm told you can refresh it by tossing it into the oven for a while to
drive out the water it has already picked up, and reuse it. So if you've
got two packs, and use them alternately, that ought to keep you going
for quite some time...
But yeah, it's hard to beat the simple zip-lock solution.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph J. Kesselman http://pages.prodigy.com/keshlam/
"This note is a production of Novalabs Consulting, which is solely
responsible for its content. Opinions not necessarily those of IBM."