Can Medeco be bumped?
peterwn
bumping a Medeco. Also someone claims to have used a computer program
to devise a manageable set of bump keys.
This seems to me to be balony.
Even if you could cut +10 and -10 degree keys, you would need 64 or 32
bump keys for 6 or 5 pin cylinders. This is let alone bi-axial. And
this is for one keyway. If the tolerance of the lower pin grooves and
sidebar 'fingers' is tighter you would need 729 / 243 keys.
Perhaps a bump key could be made that imparts a spin on the lower pin
so it is snagged in the right place bt the sidebar finger.
It makes me wonder if the girl bumped a cylinder that had the sidebar
or most of the pins removed.
fred
<33bc0fa0-1c6b-4233...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
peterwn <pet...@paradise.net.nz> writes
combo, ie not random. If that is the case and you can obtain a Medeco
key from a lock supplied by that dealer then you can cut it to bump
without having to decode the sidebar. I think it was reported on the
dutch site.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs
peterwn
> In article
> <33bc0fa0-1c6b-4233-9244-8070d9558...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> peterwn <pete...@paradise.net.nz> writes
>
> >There is a film clip going round the net showing a teenage girl
> >bumping a Medeco. Also someone claims to have used a computer program
> >to devise a manageable set of bump keys.
>
> >This seems to me to be balony.
>
> >Even if you could cut +10 and -10 degree keys, you would need 64 or 32
> >bump keys for 6 or 5 pin cylinders. This is let alone bi-axial. And
> >this is for one keyway. If the tolerance of the lower pin grooves and
> >sidebar 'fingers' is tighter you would need 729 / 243 keys.
>
> >Perhaps a bump key could be made that imparts a spin on the lower pin
> >so it is snagged in the right place bt the sidebar finger.
>
> >It makes me wonder if the girl bumped a cylinder that had the sidebar
> >or most of the pins removed.
>
> I hear it is common for one dealer to have stock of only one sidebar
> combo, ie not random. If that is the case and you can obtain a Medeco
> key from a lock supplied by that dealer then you can cut it to bump
> without having to decode the sidebar. I think it was reported on the
> dutch site.
The sidebar in Medeco is a common item, a locksmith can combinate the
angles anyway he chooses.
This is unlike ASSA, Primus etc where the auxiliary bitting codes are
allocated by the factory and pre-cut into the blanks. Agreed that a
stray key from a masterkeyed suite or pertaining to a particular
locksmith can be converted into a useful bump key.
fred
In article
<9abf1dad-e453-4bac...@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
peterwn <pet...@paradise.net.nz> writes
>On Oct 14, 7:25�am, fred <n...@for.mail> wrote:
>> In article
>> <33bc0fa0-1c6b-4233-9244-8070d9558...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>> peterwn <pete...@paradise.net.nz> writes
>>
>> >There is a film clip going round the net showing a teenage girl
>> >bumping a Medeco. Also someone claims to have used a computer program
>> >to devise a manageable set of bump keys.
>>
>> >This seems to me to be balony.
>>
>> >Even if you could cut +10 and -10 degree keys, you would need 64 or 32
>> >bump keys for 6 or 5 pin cylinders. This is let alone bi-axial. And
>> >this is for one keyway. If the tolerance of the lower pin grooves and
>> >sidebar 'fingers' is tighter you would need 729 / 243 keys.
>>
>> >Perhaps a bump key could be made that imparts a spin on the lower pin
>> >so it is snagged in the right place bt the sidebar finger.
>>
>> >It makes me wonder if the girl bumped a cylinder that had the sidebar
>> >or most of the pins removed.
>>
>> I hear it is common for one dealer to have stock of only one sidebar
>> combo, ie not random. If that is the case and you can obtain a Medeco
>> key from a lock supplied by that dealer then you can cut it to bump
>> without having to decode the sidebar. I think it was reported on the
>> dutch site.
>
>The sidebar in Medeco is a common item, a locksmith can combinate the
>angles anyway he chooses.
>
>This is unlike ASSA, Primus etc where the auxiliary bitting codes are
>allocated by the factory and pre-cut into the blanks. Agreed that a
>stray key from a masterkeyed suite or pertaining to a particular
>locksmith can be converted into a useful bump key.
>
https://securitysnobs.com/Why-To-Avoid-Medeco.html might give some
insight.
peterwn
>
> Gotcha.
>
> >This is unlike ASSA, Primus etc where the auxiliary bitting codes are
> >allocated by the factory and pre-cut into the blanks. Agreed that a
> >stray key from a masterkeyed suite or pertaining to a particular
> >locksmith can be converted into a useful bump key.
>
> https://securitysnobs.com/Why-To-Avoid-Medeco.htmlmight give some
> insight.
> --
This seems more of an administrative problem than an intrinsic problem
with the lock. Agreed if locksmiths are limited in the 'rotations'
they are allowed to use because of contractural arrangements, bumping
then becomes feasible.
IMO the Medeco cam lock mechanism is superior since the vertical and
rotational aspects are more tightly combined. Again, if the maker only
allows a subset of the 729 rotations to be used by a locksmith or
installation, the vulnerability to bump keys increases.
I saw somewhere that the Australian Bilock offers the best security. A
sidebar mechanism is far more bump resistant than an ordinary pin
tumbler mechanism especially where false notches or depressions are
used.
peterwn
>
> IMO the Medeco cam lock mechanism is superior since the vertical and
> rotational aspects are more tightly combined. Again, if the maker only
> allows a subset of the 729 rotations to be used by a locksmith or
> installation, the vulnerability to bump keys increases.
>
Oops! As the Medeco cam lock mechanism is a pure sidebar mechanism,
then it is unlikely to be vulnerable to bumping even if the angles of
cuts on the bump key were correct for the lock in question.
It is unfortunate that the cam lock plug is too large to accommodate
in an ordinary mortice, rim, Euro etc cylinder..
Default User
Default User
--
.
"peterwn" <pet...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:e58ecaea-3d0a-4ecf...@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
peterwn
> Medeco tumblers have false notches for the sidebar.
>
Be that as it may, if a suite of Medeco locks or Medeco locks supplied
a particular locksmith use the same rotations (or a very small number
of differs of rotations) it is vulnerable to bumping by a bump key
made from a stray key pertaining to the locks. All the false notches
in the world will not save the day.
Schlage Primus, ASSA, Lockwood Twin (similar to ASSA - same patent)
are all equally vulnerable to bumping in this manner.