How I keep It Simple
wand...@gulfcoast.com
I found the best way to keep my life simple is by living in a very
simple way.
For ten years I lived on a 35 foot sailboat, now I live in a one room
house by the ocean. This forces me to live simply.
Jimmy Buffett, George Carlin and many others talk about the
acquasition of "stuff". It seems we all want more "stuff".
when you live in a restricted space you learn about "stuff". All that
"stuff" you thought you just had to have, well you learn you can't
because you don't have anyplace to put it.
I have a firm rule, if I don't use something in one month it goes in
storage, If I don't use it in three months I sell it.
Not having room for more "stuff" does work. Plus it helps you walk a
little more gently on the earth.
OLSMARIE1
boop...@my-deja.com
It angers and depresses me to see how television and other media
(newspapers, magazines, etc.) promote consumerism. The message is "if
you buy this you will be HAPPY". And people believe it. It isn't
until they find out (as you have) that happiness does not have a price
tag, that they become truly happy and satisfied with their lives.
Sadly, some never learn this important lesson.
Last Sunday I decided to go to the "mall". It had been months since my
last visit to purchase a birthday card for a family member. As I
strolled through the stores, it occurred to me that there was nothing,
in the entire mall that I wanted.... NOTHING. Yet, all around me,
people in a shopping frenzy were scooping up "stuff" acting as though
they couldn't live a minute longer without it. It would have been
comical if it hadn't been so tragic to see.
I feel sorry for them.
Donsgal
who hopes to live by the ocean herself, someday.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Marilyn Welch
From "White Noise" by Don DeLillo
"The encounter put me in the mood to shop...Babette and the kids followed
me into the elevator, into the shops set along the tiers, through the
emporiums and department stores, puzzled and excited by my desire to buy.
When I could not decide between two shirts, they encouraged me to buy
both. When I said I was hungry, they fed me pretzels, beer, souvlaki. The
two girls scouted ahead, spotting things they thought I might want or
need, running back to get me, to clutch my arms, plead with me to follow.
They were my guides to endless well-being. People swarmed through the
boutiques and gourmet shops. Organ music rose from the great court...My
family gloried in the event. I was one of them, shopping at last...We
moved from store to store, rejecting not only items in certain
departments, not only entire departments but whole stores, mammoth
corporations that did not strike our fancy for one reason or another.
There was always another store, three floors, eight floors, basement full
of cheese graters and paring knives. I shopped with reckless abandon. I
shopped for immediate needs and distant contingencies. I shopped for its
own sake, looking and touching, inspecting merchandise I had no intention
of buying, then buying it...I began to grow in value and self-regard. I
filled myself out, found new aspects of myself, located a person I'd
forgotten existed. Brightness settled around me...the more money I spent,
the less important it seemed. I was bigger than these sums. These sums
poured off my skin like so much rain. These sums in fact came back to me
in the form of existential credit...the band played Muzak. Voices rose
ten stories from the gardens and promenades, a roar that echoed and
swirled through the vast gallery, mixing with noises from the tiers, with
shuffling feet and chiming bells, the hum of escalators, the sound of
people eating, the human buzz of some vivid and happy transaction.
We drove home in silence. We went to our respective rooms wishing to be
alone."
from "White Noise" Penguin Books 1986
Don DeLillo
Gary Shannon
<boop...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94oceo$k4d$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Your one-room house by the ocean sounds like heaven to me!
>
> It angers and depresses me to see how television and other media
> (newspapers, magazines, etc.) promote consumerism. The message is "if
> you buy this you will be HAPPY". And people believe it. It isn't
> until they find out (as you have) that happiness does not have a price
> tag, that they become truly happy and satisfied with their lives.
> Sadly, some never learn this important lesson.
<snip>
And simple doesn't have to mean deprived! I really enjoy watching movies. I
used to have a big screen TV and VCR (later DVD). Now I don't even own a
TV. Instead I have a big computer monitor and a DVD player built into my
computer. I still get to watch the movies I enjoy (the picture is even
clearer and sharper on the big computer monitor) with one less piece of
stuff cluttering up my life. And instead of a collection of hundreds of
tapes and DVD's on the shelf at home I have the video rental place a 6 block
walk away. I don't even own a car, but if I want to take a weekend trip to
the seashore I rent a car. That sounds expensive, but renting a car for 2
days sure beats making car payments, insurance payments, repair bills,
gasoline bills, license and registration fees, etc. etc. all year long.
Simple, to me, means making the best use of resources, and not wasting time
or money over things you only think you need.
--gary
this email does not work
livelihood had quite evaporated and I'm seriously having to cut back on
expenses. But I'm enjoying the free time and trying not to waste this precious
gift. Luckily there are very few bad spending habits to break! The hard part
is not to worry, and in fact I got a book out of the library entitled "How to
Stop Worrying and Start Living" by Dale Carnegie. Let's see if it helps, but in
the first chapter it said we basically already have the tools necessary to live
our lives and that's always been my philosophy, so I hope to use this book as a
tiny push in a new direction.
Gary wrote:
>And simple doesn't have to mean deprived! I really enjoy watching movies. I
>used to have a big screen TV and VCR (later DVD). Now I don't even own a
>TV. Instead I have a big computer monitor and a DVD player built into my
>computer. I still get to watch the movies I enjoy (the picture is even
>clearer and sharper on the big computer monitor) with one less piece of
>stuff cluttering up my life. And instead of a collection of hundreds of
>tapes and DVD's on the shelf at home I have the video rental place a 6 block
>walk away. I don't even own a car, but if I want to take a weekend trip to
>the seashore I rent a car. That sounds expensive, but renting a car for 2
>days sure beats making car payments, insurance payments, repair bills,
>gasoline bills, license and registration fees, etc. etc. all year long.
>
>Simple, to me, means making the best use of resources, and not wasting time
>or money over things you only think you need.
-Sheattle Sue, CIW [sheattle(at)aol(dot)com] All email blocked from
htm...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/sheattle/
If you're a spammer, send junkmail to the WA State Attorney General:
junk...@atg.wa.gov at the risk of prosecution. :-)
homespunideas
our vhs tapes out of the discount bin for around 6 dollars and only buy
movies we know we will watch again or educational tapes. We never rent.
Also we don't listen to radio much due to the high volume of commercials. We
own a good deal of books and enjoy hunting for them in second hand outlets.
Broadcast media is jammed with trying to get you to buy stuff you most
likely don't need. There are many other more simple forms of entertainment.
reading, walks, drawing, writing, crafting to name but a few.
--Judy
http://homespun-ideas.com
Simple living ideas and tips for home and garden.
Free Newsletter.
"Gary Shannon" <fiz...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:uIYd6.6762$vk.6...@nntp1.onemain.com...
KKemp
most do in entire books.
Wand...@gulfcoast.com
Okay, story time.:
I had been one of the pioneers in "silicon valley" in the 70's and
early 80's. Had watched the madness, worked in the pressure cooker
made a lot of money and blew a lot of money. The Eagles song "life in
the fast lane" would perfectly describe my wife and my life. Finally
cocaine, endless work and fast living by both of us blew the marriage
apart and forced me to look at my life. I had been crewing on racing
sailboats and hanging out at marinas for years and loved it. At the
same time the young start up I was working for went broke. After the
divorce settlement I just said to hell with it. I had a total of
$11,000 to my name and was qualified for unemployment. I found a 20
year old 29 foot sailboat that needed lot's of work and bought it for
$10,000. That and a $25 bicycle is all I had to my name. living on
unemployment, trying to beat a cocaine addiction and fixing the boat
was my total focus, it was also my home. Took me three months to fix
the boat till it was half way sailable. I convinced unemployment that
I was going to go on the road looking for work and just headed south.
Had a friend pick up my unemployment checks and deposit them for me.
Eventually I learned I could survive financially by fixing other
peoples boats, using my electricians skills and lot's of other ways.
Had very little money but no bills either. Nothing like being broke
and living in a limited space to force you to realize what is
important and what is not. When I hit Mexico, the small villages not
the resorts that people are used to I discovered a whole new world. I
discovered villages where people were living with little water and no
electricity yet the people were quite happy. Basically I just never
went "home". Didn't have one. Ended up in El Salvador for a while then
Nicaragua and other places. What I learned is that all the things I
had thought were important were in reality just "stuff". Eventually
met some american ex-pats living on a little island off the caribbean
coast of Nicaragua that I became close friends with. They had been
living in a thatched home on the beach for a year and in many endless
nights of talk learned their greatest dream was to have electricity
for just a few hours a day. I had seen villages where a honda
generator was run for a couple of hours in the evening and people
would gather to listen to radios or in some cases the government TV
station. These very poor people were paying dearly for gasoline when
their was lots of sunshine and breezes. There had to be a better way.
so I sailed to Houston, got a real job and started learning about
small energy generation systems. Solar and wind generated. I learned a
lot. I really got into it, that was my total focus, finding a way to
cheaply get electricity for small isolated homes and villages in the
places I had been. Took collage classes, you name it. There was no
focus on this. All they taught was about power grids and high
capability systems. I just wanted to learn ways to get enough power to
run village well pumps or a few lights or a radio for a few hours a
day using free resources rather than gasoline. Two years later I
headed back to Corn Island with a solar system I had patched together.
Well the rest is history as they say. Eventually some real companies
developed some systems that were much better than mine. Low power
systems solar and wind power generating systems started becoming
available. I became known throughout the islands. I taught vocational
electricity classes with the focus on low power solar and wind
generating systems. I bought a bigger boat, did a lot of other things
but always my mission stayed the same.
In 1996 I developed some health problems and came home. Found a little
town on the Texas coast and tried to retire in peace. Didn't work out
that way. Fortunately my students had learned my lessons well but I
was asked to go back to Nicaragua and teach again. So I do that part
of the year. I maintain my masters license so I handle inspections,
permitting etc for local small electrical contractors here.
I guess you could say this is how to keep your life simple. By other
peoples standards anyway. I have a little house I built myself
overlooking San Antonio bay. I work when I want to. Now I use the
internet to communicate with friends all over the caribbean and go to
Nicaragua from time to time and consult on energy installations and to
teach. Nobody could ever call me rich but I truly believe I am. I'm
perfectly happy.
That's what living simply is all about. You really don't need all that
"stuff". I consider myself one of the richest people in the world.
By the way. I do generate my own electricity. I'm "off the grid". I
have my own rainwater collection system supplimented by a well,
seperate gray and black water plumbing systems etc. I am quite self
sufficiant except for my food. Honestly, my neighbors are much better
gardeners than me. Thank god. I have a "black thumb" as everybody puts
it. I'm a terrible gardener. If I had to grow my own food I'd starve
to death.
>>
Marilyn
Have you heard of villages whose only source of power is generated by
bicycles? There is a group devoted to bicycle technology for small third world
villages.
I think growing some of our own food is key to changing the system.
take care,
Marilyn
Dan Birchall
> It angers and depresses me to see how television and other media
> (newspapers, magazines, etc.) promote consumerism. The message is "if
> you buy this you will be HAPPY".
A few years back, a concert by a band I like included video projected
onto two huge screens behind the stage. One scene involved a man looking
into the display window of a store, where a bunch of televisions were
on display, each with a message on its screen:
"You Need This, You Worthless Piece of Sh--."
Corporate interests are determined to persuade individuals that their
value is determined by their possessions. Most individuals aren't
putting up much of a fight.
> As I strolled through the stores, it occurred to me that there was
> nothing, in the entire mall that I wanted.... NOTHING.
I think the furthest I can go in this direction is to say that there's
usually nothing in the mall I need, or nothing I can't do without. At
times, even that isn't true - I bought some shorts there recently.
When I do get around to wanting something, it's usualyl because something
old has worn out, and I try for something that's better, more efficient,
simpler, takes up less space, lasts longer, or whatever.
> Donsgal
> who hopes to live by the ocean herself, someday.
Dan
who lives a few miles from the ocean
--
Dan Birchall - Palolo Valley - Honolulu HI - http://dan.scream.org/
My addresses expire... take out the hex stamp if your reply bounces
Kimcof
ones, where you're expected to want to lease a car that's half the value of a
decent house, and then it won't be yours at the end of the lease term anyway
unless you cough up even more money to buy it).
I enjoy having the freedom to buy exactly what I want or need, especially since
my grind through abject poverty that lasted a couple of years. In that sense,
you betcha money makes me happy in a way nothing else can, in the sense that I
know I've got a roof over my head, heat, and food in my stomach, no worries.
Now, yes, "consumerism" -- the latest car, all new clothes, etc., wouldn't make
me happy, but providing for my true wants and needs does. By most standards,
those wants and needs are pretty simple, but they match a lot of folks'
perspectives around here anyway. I'm even a leg up on some of them; I'm rather
radical to some because I have basic cable, which I use and fully enjoy after a
decade without. :-)
Kim Olson
Freelance Writing and Editing Services
Email: Kime...@aol.com for rates and information
Marilyn Welch
on line. Oh, it is the answer to all your prayers, hopes and desires!
They show families gathered around the computer which is basically a
solitary exercise. They show people standing looking at the screen and
breaking into a dance, trying to imply that this is a physical activity
when we all know it is sedentary.
Who really believes that stuff anyway. Most people I know look at life
with a healthy degree of skepticism.
Marilyn
who lives a few blocks from the sea
Kimcof
>on line. Oh, it is the answer to all your prayers, hopes and desires!
That's not too far-fetched a concept, IMO. It's certainly been a large part of
the answer to my hopes, dreams, and desires, in that it: 1) easily and
regularly connects me with friends I rarely see and used to run up huge phone
bills with to stay in touch with; now it's "free" to do so beyond the monthly
connection fee, and I can do so much more easily and regularly 2) has been a
boon to my business and has been the major reason I've gotten enough clients to
stay solvent over the last couple of years.
>They show families gathered around the computer which is basically a
>solitary exercise. They show people standing looking at the screen and
>breaking into a dance, trying to imply that this is a physical activity
>when we all know it is sedentary.
Guess you don't have kids, or at least small ones. :-) In my best friend's
house, the computer is in the kitchen, on a little built-in desk off to the
side. Her two girls (7 and 9) are almost always on the computer together when
they're on, and often when mom or dad is on the computer too. And, the napster
files that have been such a source of great controversy recently were a way for
them to get new music regularly piped into the kitchen -- so yes, indeed, there
is absolutely computer related dancing in their house, and computer time is
generally a family activity; ditto for my brother, SIL, and their girls.
Just curious: If you've such a negative attitude about the internet, why are
you here? You're one of the regular posters here and perhaps on other ngs too.
Marilyn
>
> Just curious: If you've such a negative attitude about the internet, why are
> you here? You're one of the regular posters here and perhaps on other ngs too.
Your assumption that I don't have kids is wrong.
Describing a false image portrayed by tv commercials in an objective way is not
necessarily "a negative attitude about the internet." Yes, I enjoy writing and
contacting people online (one other ng) for a few minutes but it's not my whole
life.
Your description is individual and personal and I hear you.
I was looking at the larger picture, not just "what being on line means to me."
For the vast majority of people who work in offices, or work at home my description
fits. And I stand by my attitude that being online is not the answer to the
problems of the human condition.
We in Canada now have to enact laws because of the toxic waste in massive numbers
of computers going to the landfills. This is the result of the turnover of a new
computer every 2 to 3 years and this is promoted by tv commercials. Does that mean,
I hate my computer? No, but I feel responsible for its disposal.
Marilyn
Kimcof
But, you don't have small children, do you? It is often a family affair on the
computer with younger kids, as I said in muy example.
>computer every 2 to 3 years and this is promoted by tv commercials.
Not necessarily. I'm on my third complete computer in 9 years, and have had
several upgrades within my current one since I got it. One thing I notice which
is *the* major factor in slowing this kind of turnover is that the later
versions *are* much better at allowing needed upgrades without having to
replace the entire thing, something that has to be in part because it's market
driven, and also simply because people are getting better at building more
flexible computers the more common they become. This computer is almost two
years old and still has the capacity to last me several more years, assuming
there will be no major crashes. The others were defunct and non-upgradable
within about the same time period in regard to the tasks I needed them for. I
didn't upgrade because commercials told me to, nor do many folks; I did it
because work required me to.
You sell people very short by simply assuming consumerism is always (or even
almost always) the culprit. Quite frankly, people on the whole deserve better
than that kind of prejudice -- and yes, it is prejudice.
My other two computers, BTW, got donated to charities who refurbish and resell
them themselves or donate them to other worthy causes. It's a great tax break,
better and easier than trying to resell it myself on eBay or elsewhere.
Steve Grube
Start with this: Property is theft. I think consumerism
is too tame a word for what results. It is one of the
great "just say no" challenges. -Steve Grube
Kimcof wrote: < partial quote... >
Kimcof
>is too tame a word for what results. It is one of the
>great "just say no" challenges.
Uh-huh. Let me ask you this: are you posting this on your own computer? If
you are, this statement is positively hypocritical, since you've obviously
bought into this property "theft" (as you put it) and aren't following your own
advice.
And if you're not posting this on your own computer? Guess you'd better be
glad others don't follow your adage, or that computer wouldn't exist for you to
be posting here.
Marilyn
> Start with this: Property is theft. I think consumerism
> is too tame a word for what results. It is one of the
> great "just say no" challenges. -Steve Grube
>
I like "Property is theft" even more than "we take our ease on the backs of the
poor."
I admit there is something oxymoronic about:
<alt.lifestyle.simplicity> an internet newsgroup.
But then that's what makes life and people interesting, the contradictions and
inconsistencies.
Marilyn
>
Lolli
> >is too tame a word for what results. It is one of the
> >great "just say no" challenges.
>
> Uh-huh. Let me ask you this: are you posting this on your own
computer? If
> you are, this statement is positively hypocritical, since
you've obviously
> bought into this property "theft" (as you put it) and aren't
following your own
> advice.
>
> And if you're not posting this on your own computer? Guess
you'd better be
> glad others don't follow your adage, or that computer wouldn't
exist for you to
> be posting here.
I'm missing something...is this ng about Franciscan poverty, and
we should give away all things and live only with a bowl to put
the food in, or is about "how keep simple" our life? I am against
the consumerism, I try to "say no" or "take time to decide before
buying something", I put the waste in recycle or reuse boxes... I
try to be a good human being. What's wrong with having a
computer? I have many e-friends, and enjoy their letters.
And a cellphone? Having 2 little kids it helps me a lot being
always in touch with hubby and with everything. But I use it
only when I cannot use a public phone, and surely not to "go on
wap" or "say hello". In facts, I forgot the date when I put money
on the cellphone card...it lasts a lot. And my cellphone is old
but still working, and I will not change it with a smaller or
smarter one, only to hear a "fancy ring" or see logos.
The answer maybe is not to be catched in " I want all and I want
now" traps, and they are so many...
sorry for the bad english and sorry if I hurted someone, no
anger.
Lorenza from Padova, Italy
Marilyn Welch
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Lolli wrote:
>
> I'm missing something...is this ng about Franciscan poverty, and
> we should give away all things and live only with a bowl to put
> the food in, or is about "how keep simple" our life?
Hi Lolli,
I made a comment on a false image portrayed by ads on tv, trying to sell
the Internet. They made it look like being on the Internet would bring
happiness to the world. I was thinking of the 80% of the world (?)
who do not have personal access to the Internet. Sure it's handy and I
enjoy it but I don't think it is Heaven. Then the discussion got personal,
like I was asked "why are you here?"
I am against
> the consumerism, I try to "say no" or "take time to decide before
> buying something", I put the waste in recycle or reuse boxes... I
> try to be a good human being. What's wrong with having a
> computer? I have many e-friends, and enjoy their letters.
> And a cellphone? Having 2 little kids it helps me a lot being
> always in touch with hubby and with everything. But I use it
> only when I cannot use a public phone, and surely not to "go on
> wap" or "say hello". In facts, I forgot the date when I put money
> on the cellphone card...it lasts a lot. And my cellphone is old
> but still working, and I will not change it with a smaller or
> smarter one, only to hear a "fancy ring" or see logos.
> The answer maybe is not to be catched in " I want all and I want
> now" traps, and they are so many...
> sorry for the bad english and sorry if I hurted someone, no
> anger.
> Lorenza from Padova, Italy
There's a line from a 1960's song, "We want the world, and we want it
now!"
Your English is very good.
I pass by a Fransican monastery twice a week and feel a little guilty.
Do you remember the post here where the man lived in Mexico and he said
that the people live in poverty and they are quite happy?
Marilyn
Marilyn
Pat Meadows wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:46:20 -0700, Marilyn Welch
> <wq...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
>
> >
> >I pass by a Fransican monastery twice a week and feel a little guilty.
> >Do you remember the post here where the man lived in Mexico and he said
> >that the people live in poverty and they are quite happy?
> >
>
> This really doesn't jibe with the fact that hundreds and
> thousands of Mexicans are willing to risk death and arrest
> to get into the USA to earn even a relatively small wage
> doing backbreaking labor!
>
> Poverty - if voluntary and if your basic needs are provided
> for - is fine. Basic needs being (to me at least):
> nutritious food, adequate clothing, needed medical care, and
> decent shelter, education for your children if any. Another
> basic need is a way to earn your own living, generally
> through work, sometimes through being a housewife/husband
> and mother/father.
>
> Poverty *otherwise* is terrible and people in it aren't
> happy. It's absolute nonsense to say they are.
>
> Pat
Wanderer wrote in part
"When I hit Mexico, the small villages not
the resorts that people are used to I discovered a whole new world. I
discovered villages where people were living with little water and no
electricity yet the people were quite happy. "
I think it was a given that they had shelter and food.
As for nutrition, people can build better bones and teeth on tortillas and
beans than they can on hamburgers and coke.
Yes I heard about people flocking to the USA in the film "El Norde."
Marilyn
Kimcof
don't agree with what I call consumerism -- "more is better" thinking, but
having the material things in your life that you personally truly want or need
and will use well is just fine. "Property is theft" is nonsense, though, and
that's what I was saying.
(Your English is very good. :-) )
Kimcof
>like I was asked "why are you here?"
That was me, and the point was, you can't have your cake and eat it too -- diss
computers and the internet on one hand, while at the same time being a regular,
even daily, user of them. As to commercials? Bah. If we didn't have them,
regular TV wouldn't be free. Let them say what they want, and don't take them
so seriously; that's what volume buttons, on/off switches, and channel
switching is for.
My dad has the same personal attitude about computers that you do, with two big
differences: 1) He doesn't ever intend to use them, likes his life without
just fine, and 2) perhaps most importantly, realizes that it's ONLY his opinion
and applies just to him; he knows I spend up to fifteen hours a day on mine
between work and personal use, and thinks that's just peachy because it's what
I need to do in my own life. (And yes, when this computer starts groaning and
grinding away again the way the others did when I got to the point where I
couldn't upgrade anymore, you betcha I'm going to trade it in for a speedy new
one; no commercial will need to tell me to do that. :-) )
Kimcof
>>that the people live in poverty and they are quite happy?
>>
>
>This really doesn't jibe with the fact that hundreds and
>thousands of Mexicans are willing to risk death and arrest
>to get into the USA to earn even a relatively small wage
>doing backbreaking labor!
>
>Poverty - if voluntary and if your basic needs are provided
>for - is fine. Basic needs being (to me at least):
>nutritious food, adequate clothing, needed medical care, and
>decent shelter, education for your children if any. Another
>basic need is a way to earn your own living, generally
>through work, sometimes through being a housewife/husband
>and mother/father.
>
>Poverty *otherwise* is terrible and people in it aren't
>happy. It's absolute nonsense to say they are.
>
>Pat
>
Kimcof
>I think it was a given that they had shelter and food.
Then that isn't poverty.
>As for nutrition, people can build better bones and teeth on tortillas and
>beans than they can on hamburgers and coke.
Yes, they can, and I personally do (I'm vegan), but again, your example is NOT
one of poverty as you stated.
Marilyn Welch
tv commercials presented a false image because being online is not being
in heaven in my opinion. I understand that you may be defensive about
computers, as you make your living with them and I respect that.
I'm detatched from my computer. I've rented out my system at times, and
can take it or leave it. It makes more sense for someone like me who has
experienced being online to have an opinion on it.
If you look at the larger world view, there is a global conflict going on
right now between technology and nature. This is a rather general
statement because of lack of time. It was discussed on msn last night as
the conflict between "the olive tree" and the "lexus."
People can use computers and still hate them. I've given old computers to
Big Brothers, but who wants my poison filled old monitor in the basement?
Computers are useful tools. Information is being dissiminated from direct
sources making us less dependent on The News. They do a lot of good things
but they should be seen in perspective and remembering that only about 20%
of the world population is on line. (anyone have sources for this figure?
I think I got it from CNN.)
Marilyn
Kimcof
>right now between technology and nature. This is a rather general
>statement because of lack of time. It was discussed on msn last night as
>the conflict between "the olive tree" and the "lexus."
Doesn't have to be that way. Jimmy Carter at one point had alternative energy
sources all set to go ... and then Ronald Reagan got elected and that all went
out the window, for example. We can (and are) finding ways so that the two can
coexist peacefully.
My point is, simplicity is a personal journey. People need to be let alone to
find their own paths, and they will if you let them. The problem is not
technology. Consumerism is a problem, yes, in that there are those who think
that personal emptiness can be filled up with the latest toy, a better house,
etc. Those are the folks I'd like to talk to. Not to tell them that MY way is
the right way (as you seem so intent on doing yourself), but to tell them to
slow down long enough to find out what's really missing for them, and what they
find important, to quit trying to use "stuff" to fill up, and find their own
balance. That balance, BTW, may very well include driving a Lexus for some.
But if you leave them to it I'll bet there are other areas where their lives
are much simpler than yours or mine.
Let's take you and me. You've said you don't drive a car. I do, very
infrequently. Your simplicity is not to drive a car at all, mine is to drive
one occasionally. Do you eat meat? That's one of the worst things you can do
to the environment, even infrequently, but it's easy to balance that out by
making other choices elsewhere. My choice has been not to eat meat or animal
products at all, but then I love and carefully use all of the modern
conveniences I find necessary. You've said you make your own clothes, and
that's great, but my choice has been not to buy any clothes at all for the last
ten years and just do well with what I have. See what I mean? Our choices are
different, our paths are different, and we approach simplicity differently.
We're both right. Just quit trumpeting your opinions as the "right" way to be
living simply. But most of all, don't ever make the mistake of equating
"poverty" with frugal living, or with the conscious simplification we're all
following in our own ways here.
Marilyn Welch
> Just quit trumpeting your opinions as the "right" way to be
> living simply.
This is not dialogue Kim. I have every right to express my opinions here,
it's a newsgroup after all. And I don't "trumpet" nor even insist on
"being right" as you do.
>But most of all, don't ever make the mistake of equating
> "poverty" with frugal living, or with the conscious simplification we're all
> following in our own ways here.
Who is "trumpeting" now?
Marilyn
Eric-Scott Bloom
Kimcof
>> "poverty" with frugal living, or with the conscious simplification we're
>all
>> following in our own ways here.
>
>Who is "trumpeting" now?
I wouldn't call that trumpeting, as I've been there/done that with the poverty
grind; having enough to eat and a roof over your head without fear of it being
taken away just isn't poverty no matter how you slice it.
>This is not dialogue Kim. I have every right to express my opinions here,
>it's a newsgroup after all.
Then call them opinions. This is the first time I've seen you admit that
that's what they are.
Marilyn Welch
Listen to yourself.
Scold
Scold
Scold
Look, I'm just going to block your posts and I suggest you do the same
to mine.
Maybe a walk by the ocean would help you get rid of your hostility.
Marilyn
Kimcof
I can just see you standing there shaking your finger, Marilyn. :-) (It's a
rather ludicrous picture, given that I'm an adult and will in no way accept
"scolding" from another adult, for obvious reasons.)
Find something better to do, 'kay? Given that I've made it very, very clear
that simplicity is a very personal journey and therefore different for
everyone, it goes without saying that I know there're difffering opinions.
Let's move on, shall we?
Gary Shannon
--gary
"Kimcof" <kim...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20010419182937...@ng-bh1.aol.com...
M.
The
"scold, scold, scold"
was the tone in Kim's posts.
Marilyn
Gary Shannon <fiz...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:xWhE6.786$W91.3...@nntp3.onemain.com...
Kimcof
>
>--gary
'Kay, "Dad". :-) Would that be a chat room, er ... how would one do that
virtually? :-)
Fiona McQuarrie
: I don't scold people.
: The
: "scold, scold, scold"
: was the tone in Kim's posts.
: Marilyn
This sounds like a scold in and of itself.
Cheers, Fiona
Steve Grube
Well, it's interesting to see where all of this has gone.
When I first said "property is theft" it was meant to be
one additional way of "looking" at consumerism, which was
really the topic. It's just another way of being jolted
into seeing the nastier side of consumerism. Yes, I do
own a computer but can still appreciate the way in which
the phrase helps me think about the dark side of consumerism.
-Steve Grube
Steve Grube
Yep, contradictions and inconsistencies (and even
conflict and tension) are what makes it all
interesting... as Marilyn said.
-Steve Grube
wo...@bellalantic.net
wrote:
>Start with this: Property is theft. I think consumerism
>is too tame a word for what results. It is one of the
>great "just say no" challenges. -Steve Grube
Sorry, but I don't buy your concept...
But on the other hand, I didn't steal it eather. ;)
beachbu...@gmail.com
> I enjoy this newsgroup but sometimes it does make me wonder.
> I found the best way to keep my life simple is by living in a very
> simple way.
> For ten years I lived on a 35 foot sailboat, now I live in a one room
> house by the ocean. This forces me to live simply.
> Jimmy Buffett, George Carlin and many others talk about the
> acquasition of "stuff". It seems we all want more "stuff".
> when you live in a restricted space you learn about "stuff". All that
> "stuff" you thought you just had to have, well you learn you can't
> because you don't have anyplace to put it.
> I have a firm rule, if I don't use something in one month it goes in
> storage, If I don't use it in three months I sell it.
> Not having room for more "stuff" does work. Plus it helps you walk a
> little more gently on the earth.
I've got the bug to buy a sailboat on the Texas coast and live on it...What problems do I have to look forwaed to?