A disturbing webpage
Rael
FoxWolfie Galen wrote in message <36223d92...@news.velocity.net>...
>I just read the most evil webpage I think I ever saw. It is totally
>anti-plushophile, anti-lifestyler, anti-zoophile, anti-anything that isn't
>art.
Interesting....
On one hand I must admit the person was rather....unpleasant. OTOH, I'm
somewhat impressed that somebody had enough guts to speak their mind like
that.
It's an opinion, pure and simple. Regardless of how hurtful it might be,
it's nothing more than an opinion. It's no more damaging to furs like us
than we are to furs like them, IMO. Sure, some will read that and say
"Yes...you're damn right!". Who cares? People are entitled to dislike
anything they wish...and speak their minds about it.
Biggest thing to keep in mind I think, and the main reason why things like
this person's opinion don't mean a damn thing to me, is that their
observations aren't true. All of us could read through that and say
"What?!?! That isn't me at all". That's the key thing...it isn't the
truth. I don't know how anyone else feels, but IMO no one person is the
end-all-be-all authority when it comes to what's "good" in furry. What does
that mean? Let them rant....let them all rant. Their perception of the
truth is solely their own.....
People will label me, ridicule me...even discriminate against me because of
who I am.
I am bad....I am wrong.....solely because I am not "them".
This is reality.....this is what happens for real.
Yet....this is reality, and that means one person/one group's opinion of me
doesn't amount to anything in "the grand scheme of things". It doesn't
change who I am, and surely sets no precedent for what is truly right and
wrong. No one among us is truly good enough to go setting the standards for
the rest of us to follow...regardless of what some people think.
I am hurt...I am angry, but they don't care in the slightest....
They are angry...they are appalled.....and I don't care in the slightest.
People who spend more time worrying about the lives of others waste their
own....and to me that's a very scary thought.
Rael
Just expressing an opinion of her own......
T. Woolfe
wrote:
>I just read the most evil webpage I think I ever saw. It is totally
>anti-plushophile, anti-lifestyler, anti-zoophile, anti-anything that isn't
>art. I read the part of plushophiles and sent a nice reply to it. My
>biggest objection of all was that he considers my plushies to be kid's
>toys! My plushies have nothing at all to do with kids. They are designed,
>made, sold and bought by adults. Mine also happen to be loved by an adult.
>
>If anyone wants to see the page I'm referring to, just go here:
>
>http://members.aol.com/clckwrkgod/tester.html
>
>I warn everyone. This is very anti whatever most of us are.
for what it's worth (probably nothing) I sent the following to the return/mail
Pardon me please, but don't you think that just possibly you are being somewhat
unkind to those that have done you no harm? If you don't like lifestylers just
stay away from them. No one is standing with a weapon forcing your newsreader to
alt.lifestyle furry. We have tried to remove ourselves from the politics, venom,
and flames that seem to constantly ravage alt.fan.furry. The attitude and the
semantics you have employed in this manifesto seem purely intended to create
strife and cause hurt. If this is your intent, we would rather you keep it on
alt FAN.furry where it might be appreciated. You are attempting to define furry
equals fan as an exclusive thing. Intolerance is an ugly thing, almost as ugly
as the love of violence and pain.
J W Hey (not hiding behind an anonymous identification)
T. your Woolfe for all seasons
www.FurNation.com/TWoolfe
Allen Kitchen
>anti-plushophile, anti-lifestyler, anti-zoophile, anti-anything that isn't
>art. I read the part of plushophiles and sent a nice reply to it. My
>biggest objection of all was that he considers my plushies to be kid's
>toys! My plushies have nothing at all to do with kids. They are designed,
>made, sold and bought by adults. Mine also happen to be loved by an adult.
>
>If anyone wants to see the page I'm referring to, just go here:
>
>http://members.aol.com/clckwrkgod/tester.html
This page was created by SqueeRat aka Charla Trotman.
email is clckw...@aol.com And SHE is a she, not a he.
It was a nasty little daitribe all right, but nothing we have not
heard before on other channels. And frankly, I'm not concerned
with what the other scifi genres think of us (and how does miss
Trotman know what they think in the first place? Is she in the
sciFi circles?) I'm also not concerned with what she thinks of
me either. I don't have time to teach the fandom one person at
a time that such gross generalizations are no more fair when
they do it than when others do it to them.
It does sadden me though that some folks within furry
worlds go on these witchhunts.
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
Kimba W. Lion
of getting sucked into someone's hateful words.
"Rael" <srhR...@cwix.com> wrote:
>It's an opinion, pure and simple. Regardless of how hurtful it might be,
>it's nothing more than an opinion.
Right. And it can be difficult to keep from getting sucked into it
and _allowing_ it to hurt you.
And if I felt the need to protest it, I'd put on my pawprint pin (for
some strange reason I'm not wearing it today), tuck Togar Jr. (Ty
lion plush) under my arm, and head over Annapolis way and kiss a
tiger. Does that cover all the bases? :)
Kimba
Duncan da Husky
>People who spend more time worrying about the lives of others waste their
>own....and to me that's a very scary thought.
Well said! You echoed my very thoughts on reading that bit of tripe.
-Duncan da Husky, who is reminded that opinions are like...well, you know the
rest
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Brady dun...@uncia.com http://www.technomancer.com/~duncan
Furry: Duncan da Husky SCA: Duncan MacKinnon of Tobermory
"There are lots of things I'd like to be someday, but 'normal'
is definitely not one of them." - Nelson Minar
Farlo
>I just read the most evil webpage I think I ever saw.
>http://members.aol.com/clckwrkgod/tester.html
>
>I warn everyone. This is very anti whatever most of us are.
Noble idea to warn us - but Squeerat ain't my momma.
My advice is simply to ignore her.
-------------------
Farlo m>*_*<m
Urban Fey Dragon
-------------------
*Never* send e-mail to these addresses:
postmaster@localhost
postmaster@[127.0.0.1]
abuse@localhost
abuse@[127.0.0.1]
Matt Squirrel
Galen) wrote:
>I just read the most evil webpage I think I ever saw. It is totally
>anti-plushophile, anti-lifestyler, anti-zoophile, anti-anything that isn't
>art. I read the part of plushophiles and sent a nice reply to it. My
>biggest objection of all was that he considers my plushies to be kid's
>toys! My plushies have nothing at all to do with kids. They are designed,
>made, sold and bought by adults. Mine also happen to be loved by an adult.
>
>If anyone wants to see the page I'm referring to, just go here:
>
>http://members.aol.com/clckwrkgod/tester.html
>
>I warn everyone. This is very anti whatever most of us are.
Yes, well having scanned AOL's terms of service, it seems to me this
page breaches 'em. I've left it up to them to decide whether it can
stay up, but if they actually check the complaints then I doubt it....
Matt Squirrel
ar...@hotmail.com
"Rael" <srhR...@cwix.com> wrote:
Kimba...@aol.com wrote:
> Hear, hear! :) I think I'll save that for the next time I'm in danger
> of getting sucked into someone's hateful words.
> >It's an opinion, pure and simple. Regardless of how hurtful it might be,
> >it's nothing more than an opinion.
The only thing that was sucked in when I read it was my breath. From laughing
so hard ;-) Whee...that was fun. There have got to be more of these pages.
> And if I felt the need to protest it, I'd put on my pawprint pin (for
> some strange reason I'm not wearing it today), tuck Togar Jr. (Ty
> lion plush) under my arm, and head over Annapolis way and kiss a
> tiger. Does that cover all the bases? :)
Err...that would depend on *where* you kissed the tiger. *shrug*
-Arden <The horse kissing Lifestyler who secretly wants to be an animal>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Ratman
>I just read the most evil webpage I think I ever saw. It is totally
>anti-plushophile, anti-lifestyler, anti-zoophile, anti-anything that isn't
>art. I read the part of plushophiles and sent a nice reply to it. My
>biggest objection of all was that he considers my plushies to be kid's
>toys! My plushies have nothing at all to do with kids. They are designed,
>made, sold and bought by adults. Mine also happen to be loved by an adult.
Not he, she. Squeerat wrote that. I never knew what a brillant writer she is.
You have to admit, she has some good points. She's just sick of being considered
a furry when furry implies so many other sick things. Can you blame her?
I have to admit, i can see where she's coming from.
I had to feel like an outcast by actually not letting on furry porno onto my art
site. I don't think that's such an outrageous thing, and it's a little annoying
to be thought of as the weird one for not wanting anything to do with it.
Dingo
> You have to admit, she has some good points. She's just sick of being considered
> a furry when furry implies so many other sick things. Can you blame her?
> I have to admit, i can see where she's coming from.
> I had to feel like an outcast by actually not letting on furry porno onto my art
> site. I don't think that's such an outrageous thing, and it's a little annoying
> to be thought of as the weird one for not wanting anything to do with it.
I have to say that I agree with her too. I'm sick of all of it and I'm
glad she's saying something.
Thanks,
Dingo
Kimba W. Lion
>Not he, she. Squeerat wrote that. I never knew what a brillant writer she is.
I gotta disagree with you on that one. Diatribes like that are the
easiest thing in the world to write. Usenet is full of them.
>You have to admit, she has some good points. She's just sick of being considered
>a furry when furry implies so many other sick things. Can you blame her?
'Fraid I didn't see any good points. In fact, I didn't see anything
that wasn't laced with insults and hatred. And if you really have a
good point, you don't need insults and hatred to make your point.
>I have to admit, i can see where she's coming from.
>I had to feel like an outcast by actually not letting on furry porno onto my art
>site. I don't think that's such an outrageous thing, and it's a little annoying
>to be thought of as the weird one for not wanting anything to do with it.
Now, that is something different. Your art site was "Furry Central"
as far as I was concerned and I'm sorry those who berated you for not
catering to _their_ tastes on _your_ site were so hard on you. Don't
know who thought of you as the weird one, but it wasn't everyone.
Kimba
Kimba W. Lion
> This page was created by SqueeRat aka Charla Trotman.
>email is...
I gotta admit I feel a bit squeamish about what I see as the
implications of posting her email address. C'mon, look at the style
and tone of what she wrote. If it were about something you were
unfamiliar with, would you give her any credence? This is just
flame-bait of the lowest order. Rebuttal isn't necessary.
Kimba
Farlo
> I'm sick of all of it and I'm
>glad she's saying something.
Looks like we are getting crossover from AFF - people who don't know
our posting guidelines, and probably don't care either ...
May I suggest our standard screen goes up?
i.e. Any post by trolls/the clueless/etc go totally unanswered no
matter what the content?
It's worked for us so far - for you new lurkers out there, here's how
it works:
1. Person makes obnoxious post to ALF
2. Person is reminded of posting guidelines
3. Future posts generate NO followups - at all, ever
An obnoxious poster may as well post into space for all the attention
that they'll get - in fact, some of us may even use kill filters.
Even the most dedicated troll has trouble in a group where none of
their posts receive any answer whatsoever.
Farlo
>This is just
>flame-bait of the lowest order. Rebuttal isn't necessary.
I agree - looks like there are people trying to "rile up the
Lifestylers". May I recommend "shields up" until this passes?
-------------------
Farlo m>*_*<m
Urban Fey Dragon
Standard XXXX
@abac.com XXXX
-------------------
Kimba W. Lion
>Looks like we are getting crossover from AFF - people who don't know
>our posting guidelines, and probably don't care either ...
And people who may not be familiar to all users of this group. That's
why DejaNews is so useful. Just plop the email address of a new
poster into the DN search box and you can get a little perspective on
why they may have chosen to say what they did.
Perspective is good. :)
Kimba
shields have been up for about 9 hours.
Farlo
>Dingo did speaketh thus:
>
>> I'm sick of all of it and I'm ...
I'm not sure if my post came through like I meant it - basically, all
that I wanted to say was, "Let's just ignore the bad stuff that
sometimes gets posted to ALF".
Allen Kitchen
>Not he, she. Squeerat wrote that. I never knew what a brillant writer she
is.
considered
>a furry when furry implies so many other sick things. Can you blame her?
So why tell us? As has been argued over and over again, we
are not the people asking for/drawing porn or wearing leather
ballgags around the hotel lobbys in conventions. We are (many of us)
fans who are keeping certain topics away from AFF upon request.
This does _not_ make us all spoogemonkeys, and I'm growing tired
of having to explain that to people!
I am no more a "skunkf***er" than you are, sir Ratman. If she
doesn't like being painted with a wide brush, then she shouldn't
paint others with one. People are individuals; and those who cause
the problems should be dealt with as such.
>I have to admit, i can see where she's coming from.
>I had to feel like an outcast by actually not letting on furry porno onto
my art
>site. I don't think that's such an outrageous thing, and it's a little
annoying
>to be thought of as the weird one for not wanting anything to do with it.
Okay. Gonterman and a few others pulled on that chain. None of
those people post on ALF, lurk (as far as I know) here, or have anything
to do with us. So again, why tell us? We aren't the problem in furry
fandom.
I and a number of others have rushed to your defense routinely Rat.
That you see fit to lable me and my friends for keeping non-fan
threads out of AFF (as was requested) is as pathetic as all those
losers labling _you_ for keeping a clean art site. Prejudice is
prejudice, no matter whether you are taking it or dishing it out.
And that goes for Squeerat and Chuck Melville as well.
I am >this< close to telling a number of people in AFF to go
to hell... I THOUGHT people in this genre were more intelligent
and understanding than I have seen of late. Frankly, all these
fellow furrys claiming that my other fellow furries are the source
of all evils in the fandom is starting to make me sick! I'm tired
of trying to explain to people that they HAVE THE WRONG
TARGET!
Just what this fandom needs... another witchhunt. Yeah,
that will make everything better again.
Allen Kitchen (shockwave, annoyed wolf)
Allen Kitchen
Farlo wrote in message <361bc04f...@news.fysh.org>...
>
>May I suggest our standard screen goes up?
>i.e. Any post by trolls/the clueless/etc go totally unanswered no
>matter what the content?
>
>It's worked for us so far - for you new lurkers out there, here's how
>it works:
>1. Person makes obnoxious post to ALF
>2. Person is reminded of posting guidelines
>3. Future posts generate NO followups - at all, ever
sigh.
Acknowledged. I'm just getting tired of the whole thing. Usenet
has now achieved the hassle level that caused me to dump the
IRC.
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
Kimba W. Lion
to bring them here, and we don't have to bring AFF problems here.
So... Who's minding the barbeque?
Kimba
Farlo
>Calm down. SQueerat put her opinions on her web page. We don't have
>to bring them here, and we don't have to bring AFF problems here.
>
>So... Who's minding the barbeque?
I am ... it was *delicious*!
<Grin>
Cerulean
>> Not he, she. Squeerat wrote that. I never knew what a brillant writer she is.
>> You have to admit, she has some good points. She's just sick of being considered
>> a furry when furry implies so many other sick things. Can you blame her?
...
>I have to say that I agree with her too. I'm sick of all of it and I'm
>glad she's saying something.
I keep looking up at the headers to see if this thread is crossposted,
and I still can't believe it when I see that it isn't. A rational
explanation eludes me.
--
___vvz /( Cerulean http://home.att.net/~kevinpease
<__,` Z / ( DC.D/? fs+h++ Gm CB^P a$m++d+++l*g-e!i
`~~~) )Z) ( FDDmp4adwsA+++$C*D>+HM-P-RT+++WZ?Sm#
/ (7 ( ,,'unj 6u!^ey +ou uey+ unj aJow s,+I iunj 3^eH,,
Aetobatus
>
>Acknowledged. I'm just getting tired of the whole thing. Usenet
>has now achieved the hassle level that caused me to dump the
>IRC.
Reminds me of a quote...
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea --
massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a
source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect
it." --gene spafford, 1992
Aeto, who can't say anything to top
the words of Mr. Spafford.
--
Aetobatus, Kelekona a'a o' O'ahu, Hawai'i. http://www.lava.net/~aetobat/
Keeper of Alfandria, THE social Dragon MUCK.
http://www.chameleon.net/alfandria/
telnet://alfandria.chameleon.net:8888
[The E-mail address is munged. Remove the spamtrap, but leave the number]
HPickands
The last uproar, started by riff-rAFF poking us with sharp sticks, has just
resolved itself, but with too many now lost friends and hurt feelings. And
now:
Here we go again!
A scurrilous attack on lifestylers shows up on some sorry web page, someone
comes running in with the news, then two individuals who don't post here show
up with praise for the sludge. Sure enough, the swords are being drawn and the
next battle is about to begin, while the riff-rAFF sit by and watch and smile.
"Sure enough, we done got them there rotten lifestylers at each others throats
again, ain't this _fun_?"
Everyone, please take two steps back and take a hard look. Is it worth another
period of strife and grief and loss to debate such rubbish? Do you want to
make our enemies happy? I don't think so, it will prove nothing but that we
can be successfully stirred up by those who hate us.
To hell with them! Ignore them. Let them beat each other up if they like, but
don't let them start trouble here. _ Again_.
Please.
Read that web page rot if you must, but keep the litter out of here; discuss it
in e-mail, or whatever. Don't respond to the pokes and prods from the
trespassers, just flat ignore them.
Please.
This 'ol bear has had quite enough of such useless and worthless stuff. This
will be the only mention I make of this new attack because I'm sure gonna
ignore it from this point on. Who really needs the aggravation? I don't, do
you?
Harry Bear,
who knows that if you don't feed the pigeons, they will go poop somewhere else.
"Some won't ever like me, I have learned to live with that.
The few who do I'm loyal to, and mindful of the fact."
----John Hambrick----
Skytech
>
> I just read the most evil webpage I think I ever saw. It is totally
> anti-plushophile, anti-lifestyler, anti-zoophile, anti-anything that isn't
> art. I read the part of plushophiles and sent a nice reply to it. My
> biggest objection of all was that he considers my plushies to be kid's
> toys! My plushies have nothing at all to do with kids. They are designed,
> made, sold and bought by adults. Mine also happen to be loved by an adult.
>
>
> http://members.aol.com/clckwrkgod/tester.html
>
> I warn everyone. This is very anti whatever most of us are.
>
Uuuuh... yeah.
What's Veganism?
--
La kashigada vulpo
Skytech
^^
<OO>
.U
Tim Gadd
>Not he, she. Squeerat wrote that. I never knew what a brillant writer she is.
>You have to admit, she has some good points. She's just sick of being considered
>a furry when furry implies so many other sick things. Can you blame her?
I haven;t read this article, but from what other people have written,
the things she considers 'sick', include the designated topics of this
newsgroup, so if you'd like to voice your support for her, would you
please not do it here?
--
Tim Gadd | Lupercal .com
Hobart, Tasmania | @wolf-web
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/1161/
"I am _not_ a misanthropist; I like people and get on well
with them; I am only a _numerical_ misanthropist."
J.R. Ackerley
Skytech
>
> Kimba W. Lion did speaketh thus:
> >flame-bait of the lowest order. Rebuttal isn't necessary.
>
> I agree - looks like there are people trying to "rile up the
> Lifestylers". May I recommend "shields up" until this passes?
>
I prefer to get back to the BBQ and not notice anymore.
--
La kashigada vulpo
Skytech
^^
<@@>
./
Flicker
>
> I warn everyone. This is very anti whatever most of us are.
It's well-and-truly written, though the language is a tad salty. Pretty
thorough, kinda reminds reminds of some of the old "cony-catcher" books
floating around 17th cent. England, where some crackpot would waste of a
lot of good paper breaking down the various vagrants and criminals of
the day into specific categories to no useful purpose.
The real question is, how much do you really care what other people
think?
-Flicker
Flicker
>
> I am >this< close to telling a number of people in AFF to go
> to hell... I THOUGHT people in this genre were more intelligent
> and understanding than I have seen of late.
I used to think that, too, but I was disabused of this notion years ago.
They're just people, which means, on average, they're just as ugly
inside as everyone else. I've come to deal with it by ignoring people
that I've come to dislike... and I don't feel as though I'm missing that
much.
-Flicker
Flicker
>
> > I warn everyone. This is very anti whatever most of us are.
> >
>
>
> What's Veganism?
> --
Nearly as I can figure out, it's one o' them voodoo cult thingies where
they go out and try to proselytize predators into eating nothing but
vegetables. I think it's all part of a commie plot of some sort...
Either that, or a group of millionaires building a spaceship to go to
Vega, where the "Space Brothers" will bless them with bounties of cane
sugar and corn syrup. I forget which.
-Flicker, Being Silly
Atara
>
> Skytech did speaketh thus:
>
> >What's Veganism?
>
> The Vegans were one of the bad guys in "Hitchhiker's Guide to the
> Galaxy".
Okay, I have to post this. This is a short-short I wrote a long time
ago. It's been rejected by many fine magazines across the country... One
editor called it "stranger than weird." I took that as a compliment. ;)
This is by no means a "slam" against vegetarians... In fact, I wrote
this when I was a practicing vegan.
When Vegetarians Run Amuck
When the vegetarians come into power, it is best to get out of the
country. We have all learned the hard way.
It began slowly, in a grass-roots movement consisting mainly of buttons
and bumper stickers. The local and state races were all won without many
people noticing or caring. Then the sights were set higher, for the
Congress. Slowly, very slowly, the vegetarians took over the House and
the Senate. They gained seniority. They chaired committees. Columnists
and late-night comedians cracked jokes about the Vegetarian Party.
Until, that is, the Vegetarians won the presidency.
Actually, people weren't voting for the vegetarian, they were voting
against the Democrat and the Republican. The vegetarian aspect of the
Vegetarians was played down during the election, and they combined the
best characteristics of the other two parties. They appealed to almost
everyone - except the meat
industry, of course. The night after the new president was inaugurated,
eight hundred pounds of beef were dumped outside the White House. But it
was quickly cleaned up, and after the late-night talk shows joked it to
death the incident was soon forgotten.
But after a few months, the legislation started. With a seventy percent
vegetarian Congress and a vegetarian president to back them up, several
bills were passed outlawing the production, selling or consumption of
any beef, poultry, or fish. Immediately, the protests began.
Unfortunately, vegetarians held a majority of the Supreme Court, and the
Vegan Bills were declared constitutional under some obscure "for the
good of all American food animals" clause.
The economy shifted uncomfortably for a few weeks, but then settled
again. Employment figures stayed level as meat-industry workers found
jobs with soybean and alfalfa producers. Fast food workers were forced
to learn how to make meatless hamburgers. The black market began selling
meat, but there were few people who wanted to risk the punishment.
Violators of the Vegan Laws were sent to high-security camp-prisons were
they were fed tofu. Tofu for breakfast, tofu for lunch, tofu for
dinner... Even tofu for a bedtime snack. The vegetarians were ruthless
in hunting down these outlaws. Vegan Law offenders were few and far
between.
Things had reached a boiling point. One night, a small division of the
army attempted a coup, but failed. The vegetarians had evidently
prepared for such an occurrence. They had infiltrated every branch of
the military, and the defection was quickly taken care of. But that
night proved that democracy was dead. It had not been defeated by
socialism or fascism, but by vegetarianism. The vegetarian regime had
begun.
Martial law was declared all across the country. The final Vegan Law
fugitives were routed out and sent to the prison-camps. And the final
blow was changing the nation's name from the United States of America to
the Vegan Republic, and the national anthem from "The Star-Spangled
Banner" to "Hail to the Bean Sprout."
Please, if this letter falls into your hands, take it to the heads of
your government. The United States has helped many nations with money,
troops, and food in their times of need; now it needs help itself. When
vegetarians are in control of the largest nuclear stockpile in the
world, no nation can consider itself safe. Please, if not for us, then
for yourselves - stop the vegetarians before it's too late.
And never let it happen again.
--
Atara
"I've got a pantheon of animals
in a pagan soul..." -Rush
Cassie Foxx
while she has a lot to say about a lot of things she most likely doesn't
understand completely anyway, why bother with it?
It's possible she's had a bad experience once before with Furries, but it's
far more likely she's just out to beat a drum to her own rhythm, and has
found us an easy target, since we are not exactly well-known to the general
populace as a Fandom.
I say, let her beat her drum until she's deaf and hoarse. As long as she's
on the web, and not on National TV, then what harm is she really going to do
us? After all, If you don't visit her (admittedly sick) site, she might be
closed down through lack of hits. Wouldn't that be justice enough?
Expressing an opinion of her own,
Cassie Foxx (AKA CassiTaur)
Email me at skunk...@one.net.au
Allen Kitchen wrote in message <361b7...@205.229.224.205>...
>
>FoxWolfie Galen wrote in message <36223d92...@news.velocity.net>...
>>I just read the most evil webpage I think I ever saw. It is totally
>>anti-plushophile, anti-lifestyler, anti-zoophile, anti-anything that isn't
>>art. I read the part of plushophiles and sent a nice reply to it. My
>>biggest objection of all was that he considers my plushies to be kid's
>>toys! My plushies have nothing at all to do with kids. They are designed,
>>made, sold and bought by adults. Mine also happen to be loved by an adult.
>>
>>If anyone wants to see the page I'm referring to, just go here:
>>
>>http://members.aol.com/clckwrkgod/tester.html
>
>
> This page was created by SqueeRat aka Charla Trotman.
>email is clckw...@aol.com And SHE is a she, not a he.
>
> It was a nasty little daitribe all right, but nothing we have not
>heard before on other channels. And frankly, I'm not concerned
>with what the other scifi genres think of us (and how does miss
>Trotman know what they think in the first place? Is she in the
>sciFi circles?) I'm also not concerned with what she thinks of
>me either. I don't have time to teach the fandom one person at
>a time that such gross generalizations are no more fair when
>they do it than when others do it to them.
>
> It does sadden me though that some folks within furry
>worlds go on these witchhunts.
>
>Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Farlo
>What's Veganism?
The Vegans were one of the bad guys in "Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Galaxy".
-------------------
Farlo
>Ignore them. Let them beat each other up if they like, but
>don't let them start trouble here.
Certes.
>Don't respond to the pokes and prods from the
>trespassers, just flat ignore them.
That is "Standard ALF Defense" and it works very well.
Additionally, the posters will look like loons. =:)
(No offense intended to loons)
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
SqueeRat, announcing this page?
Compare
In article <36223d92...@news.velocity.net>, ga...@velocity.nospam.net
(FoxWolfie Galen) writes:
> I just read the most evil webpage I think I ever saw. It is
> totally anti-plushophile, anti-lifestyler, anti-zoophile,
> anti-anything that isn't art. I read the part of plushophiles and sent
> a nice reply to it. My biggest objection of all was that he considers
> my plushies to be kid's toys! My plushies have nothing at all to do
> with kids. They are designed, made, sold and bought by adults. Mine
> also happen to be loved by an adult.
>
> If anyone wants to see the page I'm referring to, just go here:
>
> http://members.aol.com/clckwrkgod/tester.html
>
> I warn everyone. This is very anti whatever most of us are.
-- with --
>
> There's a big stink going on ALF about SqueeRat's new site:
>
> http://members.aol.com/clckwrkgod/tester.html
>
> Appearently she has dared to speak her mind on animal shamanism,
> zoophilia, plushophilia and several other things that have glommed
> onto the title of 'furry.'
> A refreshing change, if you ask me, and worth checking out!
>
> GothTiger, Burnt Fur
> (tig...@execpc.com)
Who is fanning flames and trying to get folks riled up?
On the other hand, I find it interesting the squirming and logical contortions
some people are going through to dismiss the feelings of someone who does not
agree with the a.l.f orthodoxy. Particularly Kimba simply gainsaying Rat. Or
saying "oh, it was probably just one person she had a bad experience with."
(Musta been one HELL of a bad experience to cover all that ground.)
And Allen, the true definition of a straw man is to attribute some statement
to someone that they didn't make, because it's easier to shoot down than what
they actually said. For example, the words spooge and Spoogemonkey do not
appear anywhere on her page. She didn't mention lobby leathermen, nor asking
for porn. As far as broad brushes, I think her criticisms were actually very
precisely aimed, and when a term wasn't enough, she got very specific.
One suggestion for the group though. When Short Attention Span Syndrome, or
whatever causes you to drop any serious discussion and talk about unrelated
trivialities takes over, you may wish to change the message title in order to
quash the thread. It looked like there were a lot more replies to this
message than there actually were.
--
Due to GTE's new 100 Hour monthly limit, I am now looking for an ISP in
the Everett/Lakes Stevens WA area that will not Bait and Switch me on the Unlimited PPP time, who has decent web services, fewer DNS breakdowns and
will stick to their <$20 /month fee schedule.
I am NOT a "Granny's got E-mail now" casual web surfer.
Akai
>
> One suggestion for the group though. When Short Attention Span Syndrome, or
> whatever causes you to drop any serious discussion and talk about unrelated
> trivialities takes over, you may wish to change the message title in order to
> quash the thread. It looked like there were a lot more replies to this
> message than there actually were.
What does it matter to you, considering that you evidently hate this
group anyway? The topic shift within threads happens just as much on
AFF. At least the above message was not cross-posted.
> --
> Due to GTE's new 100 Hour monthly limit, I am now looking for an ISP in
> the Everett/Lakes Stevens WA area that will not Bait and Switch me on the Unlimited PPP time, who has decent web services, fewer DNS breakdowns and
> will stick to their <$20 /month fee schedule.
> I am NOT a "Granny's got E-mail now" casual web surfer.
--
-Akai
Why do we never get an answer
When we're knocking at the door
With a thousand-million questions
About hate and death and war?
'Cause when we start to look around us
There is nothing that we need
In a world of persecution
That is burning in its greed.
--"Question"
by the Moody Blues
Kimba W. Lion
>Particularly Kimba simply gainsaying Rat.
"I came here for a good argument!"
"No, you didn't. You came here for an _argument_."
Allen Kitchen
Richard Chandler - WA Resident wrote in message
<981008000...@mauser.at.gte.net>...
>Does anyone find it interesting the different posts, neither of them made
by
>SqueeRat, announcing this page?
It had already occured to me, especially when Galen
then announced it over on AFF. Don't worry; sharp eyes
are being brought to bear on this matter.
But a question Rich. You are following the FAQ, and I thank
you for that. But, if the people in ALF are the root of all evil in
the fandom as you, Chuck, and Squee purport, then why are you
posting here? I'm not being nasty or anything; it just puzzles me
is all.
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/
Locandez
>
>I just read the most evil webpage I think I ever saw. It is totally
>anti-plushophile, anti-lifestyler, anti-zoophile, anti-anything that isn't
>art. I read the part of plushophiles and sent a nice reply to it. My
>biggest objection of all was that he considers my plushies to be kid's
>toys! My plushies have nothing at all to do with kids. They are designed,
>made, sold and bought by adults. Mine also happen to be loved by an adult.
I sent her an email covering the furry lifestyle, animal spirit and
werewolf angles.
Locandez
--
-- Blank Furvey: http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/lyndale/furvey.txt
--
-- NOTE: The email address that I am posting from is fake.
-- My true email address is: lyndale [at] argonet.co.uk
Plucky: "Ducks! This newsgroup needs more ducks!" Taz: "Ducks? Hur hur, Taz make everybody duck!"
Tim Gadd
>Does anyone find it interesting the different posts, neither of them made by
>SqueeRat, announcing this page?
>Compare
[...]
>-- with --
[...]
>Who is fanning flames and trying to get folks riled up?
Why would you expect someone who feels they have been attacked by an
article to react with the same poise as someone who finds themselves
in agreement with it?
Syke
chil...@big.gulf.net wrote in message <361c3e5b...@news.fysh.org>...
>On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 19:36:04 GMT, stan...@abac.com (Farlo) etched:
>
>>Dingo did speaketh thus:
>>
>>> I'm sick of all of it and I'm
>>>glad she's saying something.
>>
>>
>>May I suggest our standard screen goes up?
>>i.e. Any post by trolls/the clueless/etc go totally unanswered no
>>matter what the content?
>>
>>It's worked for us so far - for you new lurkers out there, here's how
>>it works:
>>1. Person makes obnoxious post to ALF
>>2. Person is reminded of posting guidelines
>>3. Future posts generate NO followups - at all, ever
>>
>>that they'll get - in fact, some of us may even use kill filters.
>>Even the most dedicated troll has trouble in a group where none of
>>their posts receive any answer whatsoever.
>>
>Excellent suggestion Farlo. Lurkers, heed Farlo's suggestion and for
>that matter, anyfur else. I know I will using my kill filters on a few
>trolls!
Funny thing about the rules, the first person to post was one of your own
bringing it INTO the group, hmm, so is he the troll since he started it with
posting it at all and starting this thread? Squee didn't post at all, and
no,
I'm not trolling, I just decided to see what was going on here like I do
once
a month.
Also, I would think that it wouldn't bother anyone at all what she said,
since
it's an opinion and everyone here has an opinion, heck, there's a reason
I don't refer to myself as a 'Furry' artist or a Furry in general, the
stigma I
was warned about by a friend who is in the animation production business.
Fur=Jobless and I'm not letting any hobby get in the way of my future.
-- Syke
And, yes, I do agree with her, because I don't want someone thinking that
I'm
doing something I'm not through association.
>
>chilli
>-Full Sails!-
>
>remove "big" from address if replying via e-mail
>ICQ #11687772
Farlo
>Funny thing about the rules, the first person to post was one of your own
>bringing it INTO the group, hmm, so is he the troll since he started it with
>posting it at all and starting this thread?
Excellent point - hopefully Foxwolfie will use more discretion in the
future. I don't think that he meant any harm, and that's why no one
has said anything so far, IMO.
Farlo
>(HPickands) wrote:
>
>>The last uproar, started by riff-rAFF
> ^^^^^^^^^
> *giggle* By the same logic, we are hALFwits :D
I can't believe that i missed that ... !
LOL. Very clever.
luk...@triton.net
Farlo <stan...@abac.com> wrote:
> Skytech did speaketh thus:
>
> >What's Veganism?
>
> The Vegans were one of the bad guys in "Hitchhiker's Guide to the
> Galaxy".
I believe that there was also a small reference to them in "Cities In
Flight" by James Blish, but I expect that those are not the Vegans that are
being referred to here.
(Though I find it difficult at the moment to figure out what is going on in
any NG at the moment because I am temporarily unable to connect to my news
server, so I am forced to use the DejaNews service, the workings of which I
am unfamilliar with.)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Allen Kitchen
Locandez wrote in message ...
>In article <19981007193400...@ngol01.aol.com>,
hpic...@aol.com
>(HPickands) wrote:
>
>>The last uproar, started by riff-rAFF
> ^^^^^^^^^
> *giggle* By the same logic, we are hALFwits :D
Hahahhahaah
Very good! Very good indeed.
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
Ron Orr... & Tirran
> Uuuuh... yeah.
>
>
> What's Veganism?
It's the organised worship of the Chevrolet Vega, a small and
rather badly-made minicar from the early 1970s.
Tir'
Atara
>
> One suggestion for the group though. When Short Attention Span Syndrome, or
> whatever causes you to drop any serious discussion and talk about unrelated
> trivialities takes over, you may wish to change the message title in order to
> quash the thread.
*sigh* I meant to change the message title when I posted that silly
story... But I got paged from work while I was in the middle of posting
it, and logged out... Then came back and my modem wouldn't connect...
Had to restart my computer and start over... Somewhere in there the new
title got lost ;)
Oh well.
HPickands
In article <361d1cb4...@news.fysh.org>, stan...@abac.com (Farlo) writes:
>
>Locandez did speaketh thus:
>
>>(HPickands) wrote:
>>
>>>The last uproar, started by riff-rAFF
>> ^^^^^^^^^
>> *giggle* By the same logic, we are hALFwits :D
I can do that. Wouldn't be the first time either. ;)
>I can't believe that i missed that ... !
>LOL. Very clever.
Thank you, thank you vurry mush!. :)
Harry,
who has left the building.
Cerulean
crossposted header in this thread. I keep looking, and it's not there.
This mystery was resolved when Richard Chandler quoted this post to
a.f.f.:
>> There's a big stink going on ALF about SqueeRat's new site:
Now I understand why this looks so much like a crossposted thread.
Thank you for clearing that up for me.
>Who is fanning flames and trying to get folks riled up?
Both people. Ask me a harder one.
>On the other hand, I find it interesting the squirming and logical contortions
>some people are going through to dismiss the feelings of someone who does not
>agree with the a.l.f orthodoxy.
What is the "a.l.f. orthodoxy?" I have yet to encounter some sort of
dogma other than "don't make judgemental posts to a.l.f." (and, yes,
there are plenty of us who are unhappy about the tendency of some
people to make an exception for whining about a.f.f.).
The only disagreement is see is over whether people are allowed to
have overlapping interests. "Oh no, I can't call myself a furry
because there are sicko people who call themselves furry and I'm not
like them." Well, duh, they call themselves furry because they like
furry stuff, regardless of whatever else they're into. People are all
different, and people who are both bondage fetishists and furry fans
are going to exist! You can't make them stop being one or the other!
Making up a new label that means "furry fan who has no other strange
interests" won't really help much in dissociating oneself. The only
alternative is saying "You. It is a danger to my reputation that you
exist. Please stop." History has shown that people are very reluctant
to comply with this kind of request, but for some reason many keep
trying it as if it will work.
The only way to deal with it is to trust people to have common sense,
and if anybody ever says, "Hey, I see you're buying furry comics. That
must mean you have sex with stuffed animals, right?" just reply "No.
You're generalizing. I'm buying furry comics because I like reading
furry comics." I think every rational being knows by now that
generalizations are invalid, and those who don't will judge you on
your looks anyway, so there's no point in trying to fool them by
saying "No. Only furries do that. I'm an orthosocialanthrofan, and
we're nothing like furries. Our comics are somtimes hard to tell
apart."
--
___vvz /( Cerulean http://home.att.net/~kevinpease
<__,` Z / ( DC.D/? fs+h++ Gm CB^P a$m++d+++l*g-e!i
`~~~) )Z) ( FDDmp4adwsA+++$C*D>+HM-P-RT+++WZ?Sm#
/ (7 ( ,,'unj 6u!^ey +ou uey+ unj aJow s,+I iunj 3^eH,,
Cassie Foxx
Syke wrote in message
>
>And, yes, I do agree with her, because I don't want someone thinking that
>I'm
>doing something I'm not through association.
>
>
If you're not doing it, then why are you worried about what others are
thinking? Anything that person tries to associate with Furries, IN GENERAL,
is nothing but slander. There may always be a few members of any fan group
who are into things that are not quite condoned, but usually ignored, by the
majority, but that is NO reason to assume ALL those in the fandom do
everything you 'could' attribute to a group.
If "Furry" is a death sentence for your career or others, then it's your
right to protect your career, but please don't tar and feather the rest of
us with any accusations you might have against a specific member or members
of this fandom. That's a great way to get everyone offside, very quickly.
Besides, this is suspiciously starting to sound like AFF. If I want to watch
a flame war in progress, I'll go there. I come here to get away from that.
Maybe you should let the whole issue ride for now. It'd certainly be a lot
peaceful....
Cassie Foxx
Cassie Foxx
>> Locandez wrote:
>>
>>>The last uproar, started by riff-rAFF
>> ^^^^^^^^^
>> *giggle* By the same logic, we are hALFwits :D
>
>Hahahhahaah
>
Goddess!! *groans at bad pun....*
Still, *giggle* That's not half-bad.
At least it's better than sore words and bitter posts.
Good one, Locandez!
Cassie Foxx
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
> >On the other hand, I find it interesting the squirming and
> >logical contortions some people are going through to dismiss the
> >feelings of someone who does not agree with the a.l.f orthodoxy.
>
> What is the "a.l.f. orthodoxy?" I have yet to encounter some sort of
> dogma other than "don't make judgemental posts to a.l.f." (and, yes,
> there are plenty of us who are unhappy about the tendency of some
> people to make an exception for whining about a.f.f.).
Got it in one. Well half of it. There is the Happiness Patrol, and the
everything is acceptable principle. That's your Orthodoxy. With certain
folks taking the role of self-appointed Jesuits.
> The only disagreement is see is over whether people are allowed to
> have overlapping interests.
You prolly don't follow a.f.f, but I proposed the term "Crossover" for folks
who are both fans, and lifestylers. It also appears that using different
terms for different areas of interest helps keep down flames, and keeps folks
from being confused.
> "Oh no, I can't call myself a furry
> because there are sicko people who call themselves furry and I'm not
> like them." Well, duh, they call themselves furry because they like
> furry stuff, regardless of whatever else they're into. People are
> all different, and people who are both bondage fetishists and furry
> fans are going to exist! You can't make them stop being one or the
> other!
> Making up a new label that means "furry fan who has no other
> strange interests" won't really help much in dissociating oneself.
> The only alternative is saying "You. It is a danger to my reputation
> that you exist. Please stop." History has shown that people are
> very reluctant to comply with this kind of request, but for some
> reason many keep trying it as if it will work.
The funny thing is, there already are a number of different terms for
different areas of interest. Even here people are referred to as "fans"
"Zoophiles" "Plushophiles" etc. And people know exactly what you're talking
about. If you substituted "Furry" instead of these words that people already
use, it gets confusing, and people pick fights.
> The only way to deal with it is to trust people to have common sense,
> and if anybody ever says, "Hey, I see you're buying furry comics.
> That must mean you have sex with stuffed animals, right?" just reply
> "No.
> You're generalizing. I'm buying furry comics because I like reading
> furry comics." I think every rational being knows by now
> that generalizations are invalid, and those who don't will judge you
> on your looks anyway, so there's no point in trying to fool them by
> saying "No. Only furries do that. I'm an orthosocialanthrofan, and
> we're nothing like furries. Our comics are somtimes hard to tell apart."
And we already know how uncommon common sense is in the real world.
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
writes:
> But a question Rich. You are following the FAQ, and I thank you
> for that.
Oops, wasn't intentional. :-)
> But, if the people in ALF are the root of all evil in
> the fandom as you, Chuck, and Squee purport, then why are you posting
> here? I'm not being nasty or anything; it just puzzles me is all.
Um, "Know thy enemy?" :-)
I just find it amusing that folks on this group have the occasional zoophile
wars too.
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
(FoxWolfie Galen) writes:
> If she is sick of being considered a furry then perhaps she should
> not consider herself a furry. Furry is what it is.
Circular Definition - see Definition, Circular.
Definition, Circular - See Circular Definition. also see Tautology.
> From the very start,
> it has consisted of people who have differing opinions on what it
> should be. Sure, some people do go to the extremes and some may not
> care what the results are. Just as many go to the opposite extreme.
Um, if everyone's allowed to have different opinions of what furry is, then
why isn't she allowed to have her opinion of what Furry is? Because hers is
narrower than yours?
> If furry implied sick things, I wouldn't be able to tell all my
> friends that I'm furry. Even my grandmother knows. I haven't heard
> anyone I told about furry complaining that it was sick.
Then you're doing a good job. I wish everyone were able to tell people about
furry in a way that made them feel good and understanding about it. But there
are those who screw up, and screw up big time. Like getting in Alan Dean
Faster's face at CF, or Jim Baen's, or having regular run-ins with the disney
legal department. It hurts us all when people represent furry, whatever it
means to them, poorly.
> I don't go out and brag about zoophilia and I don't demonstrate how
> to boink a plushie to strangers. I suppose some of us could start
> doing stuff like that. People could do the things she complains about
> on her page, but they generally don't.
Unfortunately, they do. More than you think.
> Complaining about a bad image and then writing a page that is
> guaranteed to create the bad image makes little sense to me. Sure she
> has the right, but it's self destructive to her cause.
Her complaining doesn't create a bad image. And the difference is that she's
trying to draw a line between herself and those she's complaining about.
She's talking about a "Them" rather than a "We".
I think that is most offensive to people who desperately want all lifestyles
to be one big happy family, which is why some folks are on the warpath.
Farlo
>In article <3624f552...@news.velocity.net>, ga...@velocity.nospam.net
>(FoxWolfie Galen) writes:
>> If she is sick of being considered a furry then perhaps she should
>> not consider herself a furry. Furry is what it is.
>
>Circular Definition - see Definition, Circular.
>
>Definition, Circular - See Circular Definition. also see Tautology.
This looks like RC has stepped over the line - in an earlier post he
clearly states that he isn't intentionally following the FAQ.
Allen Kitchen
FoxWolfie Galen wrote in message <361fd1d6...@news.velocity.net>...
>On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:37:10 -0500, "Allen Kitchen" <all...@blkbox.com>
>Huh? I never mentioned that in AFF. I only mentioned it here in ALF.
yes, I made a mistake. That was GothTiger who migrated
the thread. Not you. My error, and I appologize for the misquote.
>> But a question Rich. You are following the FAQ, and I thank
>> you for that. But, if the people in ALF are the root of all evil in
>> the fandom as you, Chuck, and Squee purport, then why are you
>> posting here? I'm not being nasty or anything; it just puzzles me
>> is all.
>
>I always have to wonder the same thing. Why, If someone is truly disgusted
>with, or against, the people in a.l.f, would they decide to post or even
>read here.
I find it equally perplexing. But then I find the entire witchhunt some
people are engaging in to be perplexing too. I'll say no more on it,
since that isn't an ALF matter.
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
HPickands
In article <1dgkk7g.zy...@nor-tcs1-port11.vianet.on.ca>,
griz...@vianet.on.ca (Ron Orr... & Tirran) writes:
>
>Skytech <sky...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> What's Veganism?
>
> It's the organised worship of the Chevrolet Vega, a small and
>rather badly-made minicar from the early 1970s.
I was drivin' Old Smokey
Just burnin' up oil,
The bores were all oval
The coolant always on boil.
That Vega was made in Lordstown,
A really nasty place.
And when I did drive it
I always covered my face.
Long gone now,
But never forgotten.
Of all the iron I've done had,
That was the most rotten.
Harry Bear,
Percy Dovetonsils' obscure cousin.
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
> he clearly states that he isn't intentionally following the FAQ.
You didn't see the smileys?
You need to relax.
I don't think wild and innacurate accusations are in line with the FAQ either.
Skytech
>
> On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:18:29 -0400, griz...@vianet.on.ca (Ron Orr... &
> Tirran) wrote:
>
> >Skytech <sky...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> What's Veganism?
> >
> > It's the organised worship of the Chevrolet Vega,
>
> Vega!
>
Only if your blood makes noise.
--
La kashigada vulpo
Skytech
^^
<@->
.]
Lucas
<catgrrl-0710...@n108client48.hawaii.rr.com>...
> "Now let us celebrate our furriness with the adding of chocolate to
milk..."
Look into the depths and contemplate the meanings therein. Everybody
together now:
Ommm, Ommm, Ommm, <Hand me a spoon will 'ya?>, Ommm, Ommm,
<tink-a-tink-a-tink-a-tink> Ommm, Ommm, Ommm, Slluuuurrrrrp...
Farlo
>WebKitty wrote...
>> "Now let us celebrate our furriness with the adding of chocolate to
>milk..."
>
> Look into the depths and contemplate the meanings therein. Everybody
>together now:
>
>Ommm, Ommm, Ommm, <Hand me a spoon will 'ya?>, Ommm, Ommm,
><tink-a-tink-a-tink-a-tink> Ommm, Ommm, Ommm, Slluuuurrrrrp...
>
... and yea, the furs were made calm, and all was peace.
(Sluurrrp)
Arcanix Firestorm
> > Kimba W. Lion did speaketh thus:
> > >This is just
> > >flame-bait of the lowest order. Rebuttal isn't necessary.
> > I agree - looks like there are people trying to "rile up the
> > Lifestylers". May I recommend "shields up" until this passes?
> I prefer to get back to the BBQ and not notice anymore.
> --
here here...i second that idea.... ::curls up by the BBQ, closes his
eyes and dreams of starwberry fields forever::
--
Arcanix - The resident Pheonix "feathery and proud"
AIM SN - MagmaBird E-Mail addy - lremil...@snet.net.NoSpam
*remove obvious to mail me*
http://members.aol.com/ArcPheonix/main.html
"look to nature for your answers in life for you will find none better
than mother earth as your guide"
Arcanix Firestorm
> >May I suggest our standard screen goes up?
> >i.e. Any post by trolls/the clueless/etc go totally unanswered no
> >matter what the content?
> >
> >It's worked for us so far - for you new lurkers out there, here's how
> >it works:
> >1. Person makes obnoxious post to ALF
> >2. Person is reminded of posting guidelines
> >3. Future posts generate NO followups - at all, ever
::gives a realy big beaked grin, places his wing tips to his head and
hums:: troll be gone......
Lucas
<361BFBA0...@ix.netcom.com>...
> Farlo wrote:
> > I agree - looks like there are people trying to "rile up the
> > Lifestylers". May I recommend "shields up" until this passes?
>
> I prefer to get back to the BBQ and not notice anymore.
<Lucas nods his head in agreement and flicks his tail for attention.>
< "Ensign, you heard Farlo. Shields up." >
[Ensign Garry quickly taps a few codes into the console in front of him.]
[The weapons officer pricks her ears up and asks from the other side of the
bridge: "Do you want the phazers brought up to power?"]
< "No, that won't be necessary, this isn't a spam attack you know, just a
few dissidents on the far side of the sector, our patrol route probably
won't even take us near them but I just thought that we might as well be
safe rather than sorry." >
[The fox sitting in the navigators seat looks up from his board and taps
the map on the screen with one claw.]
[ "In fact," he says, "from the looks of this chart, there is a plasma
storm containing magnetic anomalies just a little way from here with a
small, uncharted, roving planet in the center of it." ]
[ The coon over in communications grumbles. "I might have known from the
way the local news server has been behaving lately." ]
<Lucas raises an eyebrow and speculates on the anomaly for a few seconds,
then smiles and says: "Navigator, Please put the chart up on the main
screen.">
{The fox taps a key and the chart pops up on the main screen.}
<Lucas taps a security clearance code into the pad set in the arm of his
command chair. The un-named planet in the center of the main screen
suddenly acquires a small label: BBQ>
{The crew cheers and looks over at the Captain expectantly.}
< Lucas waves a paw for silence. "Ok ensign, take us in. Shore-leave for
everyone!">
{More wild cheering ensues as Ensign Carmen punches in the co-ordinates.}
< "Oh, and Carmen? Lower the shields will you? The magnetic and subspace
distortions of the storm should keep any undesirables from targeting us,
hmm?" >
["Aye Arf, Captain." Carmen acknowledges the order and finishes punching
the sequence into his console that he had started even before Lucas had
mentioned it.]
Skytech
oreos. And Skytech the Vulpan spaketh; "Damn! I'm goood!"
--
La smira vulpo (The anointed fox) Yeah, it means smear!
Skytech
^^
<OO>
.D
Chuck Melville
<36229e25...@news.velocity.net>...
> On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:22:34 -0700, mau...@gte.net (Richard Chandler - WA
> Resident) wrote:
>
> > > If she is sick of being considered a furry then perhaps she should
> > > not consider herself a furry. Furry is what it is.
>
> > Circular Definition - see Definition, Circular.
>
that
> ALL of us made it to be.
That appears to be the heart of the problem. Furry, as it currently
exists, -is- what everyone has made it to be. It was -not- that way to
begin with. It was simply a gathering of folks who liked funny-animal
comics, stories and art, and that was all. The rest of it -- the zoos,
plushophiles, lifestylers, etc -- were grafted on -later- by folks who were
mainly on the fringes of the fandom, and who later insinuated themselves
and their own definitions of what Furry was, insisting it was every bit as
valid, and of the belief that it was every bit as welcome.
>She cannot change it, so she might as well make a
> choice. Accept it and quit complaining, or reject it and quit trying to
> stay so close to it. She may not like it, but nothing she can say is
going
> to make zoophiles, lifestylers, plushophiles, toonophiles, fursuit sex
> lovers, etc., decide to give up being furry. It just isn't going to
happen.
Perhaps that is why she is proposing that the -rest- of us -leave-, and
just start anew with a new name and identity. I think that will prove to
be a much harder task than she realizes since everybody on both sides wants
to retain the 'furry' label, but her proposal is very attractive in theory
at least. Nor is she the first to make such a proposition, as there was
the original proposal about the fans callings ourselves 'Anthros' in place
of 'Furry' in order to avoid confusion. Despite your assertions to the
contrary, I think this is simply building to a point where it -will-
eventually happen and a change -will- take effect. Time will tell.
> She might as well save her energy for something that might work. All she
is
> doing is advertising the exact things about furry that she hates the
most.
> On top of that, she is be very in-accurate about many things in a
negative
> direction. This isn't going to help in changing the image of furry to her
> liking. If anything, it's just going to make it worse for her - and
> possibly hurt other people as well.
>
> > Um, if everyone's allowed to have different opinions of what furry is,
then
> > why isn't she allowed to have her opinion of what Furry is? Because
hers is
> > narrower than yours?
>
> She is allowed to have her opinion, so long as she is not attacking
> innocent people in the process. It might be helpful if she would do even
> the slightest bit of research on the topics she is so hateful of. She is
> obviously not a plushophile, lifestyler, zoophile, toonophile or any of
the
> other things she claims to hate. Many of the people here are one or more
of
> those things. Maybe she should simply ask real people that are into some
of
> these things to explain them or at least provide a few facts.
In what way would doing so alter the fact that none of these things have
anything to do with reading, collecting, or enjoying furry comics, stories,
or art? She is, from all appearances, seeking to divorce the lifestylers
from the fandom apparently feeling that the practices and beliefs of the
former have no place or relevance with the latter.
--
-Chuck Melville-
"We'd like to buy a cat. Preferably one with a history of mental illness."
Farlo
>Furry, as it currently
>exists, -is- what everyone has made it to be.
Hallelujah!
Chuck Melville
<362122c...@news.fysh.org>...
> Chuck Melville did speaketh thus:
>
> >Furry, as it currently
> >exists, -is- what everyone has made it to be.
>
> Hallelujah!
>
I think you misunderstood me if you're cheering so quickly, Farlo; it was
-not- meant as a compliment but as a recognition of how messed up it is as
a result of two separate factions trying to lay equal claims upon the term
'Furry'.
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
> Chuck Melville did speaketh thus:
>
> >Furry, as it currently
> >exists, -is- what everyone has made it to be.
>
> Hallelujah!
Wow! Talk about taking quotes out of context! You should write those blurbs
for movie posters where they use ten sets of ellipsis (...).
Florian
To bring up more useless info: It's been two and a half months since my
first post, and about four months since I started lurking, 5 years since
I found the the 'fan' side of furry, and much longer since I had what
could be considered 'lifestyler' views.
The discussion (or lack of) on the threads started from the webpage have
made me wonder about a couple things. (Fair warning: content to follow
may be hard to phrase politely)
Squee Rat did make a direct attack, but the response is even worse.
While some choose to ignore it, many resorted in name calling and crying
victim. If only words could describe how sick I am of words like bigot
used so liberally.
I can see where she is coming from. Furry did mean a fan thing before
it's meaning expanded (and probably will continue to expand until it
includes even what many here don't want it to mean).
I lost one friend last March just by showing him some G rated furry art;
now if I told everyone EVERY aspect now attributed to furry...
The worst thing brought up in these threads is that serious discussion
is off topic. What is the point of the newsgroup? (I have read the FAQ,
thank you very much) I'm a slow reader, and have limited time to spend
on a NG if all topics are just fluff with people I can't put a face to.
(I prefer RL meetings)
So, I will be leaving ALF for now.
While I lean toward Squee Rat's views on a fair amount of what she said,
I will reserve final judgment until after my next con. That looks like
ConFurence at this point. I hope to meet some of you there, and may
return to ALF at that time, maybe.
I suppose this makes me a furry fan, and a borderline furry lifestyler
now. Labeling myself a 'furry' fails to describe me if it means
anything people want.
I will monitor a couple threads here for a few days, then I can be
reached at AFF or email.
(disclaimer: While I'm sure I met several people here at cons already,
Karl Meyer is the only name I recognize, since he gave me his card the
day I wore a 'Ferrets are more fun' T-shirt at ConFurence. Also, I'm
just stating why I'm leaving, not singling out people to attack.)
----------------------------------------------------
e_raschk...@hotmail.com remove .nospam
"If anybody doesn't believe me, they can ring my doorbell, and
smell my toilet." tv commercial
Fur code 1.3: FCF/MSa A->+ C+ Dm H>+ M- P+++ R+ T++ W- Z+ Sm#
RLE/CT* a cn++++ d e+ f iw+ j* p+ sm#
Eliminated that RL- part of the fur code!
Farlo
>Farlo <stan...@abac.com> wrote in article
>> Chuck Melville did speaketh thus:
>>
>> >Furry, as it currently
>> >exists, -is- what everyone has made it to be.
>>
>> Hallelujah!
>>
>
> I think you misunderstood me if you're cheering so quickly, Farlo; it was
>-not- meant as a compliment but as a recognition of how messed up it is as
>a result of two separate factions trying to lay equal claims upon the term
>'Furry'.
The glass is half-full. =:)
Sidhain
Richard Chandler - WA Resident wrote in message
>Wow! Talk about taking quotes out of context! You should write those
blurbs
>for movie posters where they use ten sets of ellipsis (...).
>
>
Hmmm interesting point....might need to remember it sometime myself...and
remind other indivisuals I talk to....
Farlo
>The worst thing brought up in these threads is that serious discussion
>is off topic. What is the point of the newsgroup?
Everything that needs to be said along these lines is covered by the
FAQ. Certainly we have covered this territory before with new
posters.
>I will monitor a couple threads here for a few days, then I can be
>reached at AFF or email.
No problem.
>Also, I'm
>just stating why I'm leaving, not singling out people to attack.
I thank you for meeting the letter of the posting guidelines.
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
e_raschk...@hotmail.com> writes:
> The worst thing brought up in these threads is that serious discussion
> is off topic.
I did notice what seemed like a tag-team effort to take any serious discussion
and turf it, and substitute some foolish RPing about a BBQ or something.
Kinda the newsgroup equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and
singing "LALALALALA!"
Of course, that's how the Happiness Patrol prevents threads from going into
areas that require thinking, or may lead to possible flaming. Most threads on
a.l.f end up having nothing to do with their titles after 20 or so messages.
sooner if it's something serious, later if it's something frivolous.
Cassie Foxx
Yknow, when I showed this thread to my mate, he went: "MEEEP!" and asked:
"Is that a thread or a cable?!" I know he was joking, but this might be
starting to get beyond a joke, perhaps?
I mean, there has to be over 100 messages to this thread (Or cable ) so far.
Is the topic of this one little opinionated webpage so interesting? Squeerat
has a right to her opinion, true, and I'm not denying that, but is what she
said so important that it has to obsess everybody here?
I saw that page. She has said some very bad things about Furry in general,
and has gone into specifics. What she said about each of the specified
groups could be taken as slander, insult, or any way you like, but when it
all boils down to it, can what she sayd hurt you if you don't let it? It
won't stop me being Furry or following the fandom.
So when it all boils down, what are you left with? A bunch of words on a
webpage that says a lot, about the opinions of the poster of that page.
Those who know what Furry means to them shouldn't be bothered too much until
what she says starts appearing in the magazines, on OPRAH, or on the news.
She is one voice.
We are many.
Maybe we should all start to tell our stories.
Maybe then the positives will be heard, as well as the negatives.
Are you willing to be heard?
Think on it.
Cassie Foxx
Email me at skunk...@one.net.au
I'm not afraid to hear and be heard. Are you?
Kimba W. Lion
>I did notice what seemed like a tag-team effort to take any serious discussion
>and turf it
And this is from someone who uses the phrase "what if I told you I
just said that to tweak you" to duck out of a serious discussion.
Even ignoring your past history, this sounds like merely Usenet ploy
#6: 'Anyone who won't go along with me isn't being serious'. We've
heard it before, and it STILL doesn't work.
Kimba
Kimba W. Lion
>If only words could describe how sick I am of words like bigot
>used so liberally.
When talking about a person who can't seem to finish a sentence
without using a ridiculous insult, the word "bigot" has a reasonable
chance of being applicable. I can think of other words that may be
more applicable, but a person has a chance of recovering from being a
bigot.
>I lost one friend last March just by showing him some G rated furry art;
The pain of losing a friend is nothing to sneeze at, but I don't see
how I (for one) can accept any responsibility for what happened.
>The worst thing brought up in these threads is that serious discussion
>is off topic.
Still untrue.
>What is the point of the newsgroup? (I have read the FAQ,
>thank you very much) I'm a slow reader, and have limited time to spend
>on a NG if all topics are just fluff...
>I'm just stating why I'm leaving, not singling out people to attack.)
Not singling out any person, just mischaracterizing my friends and
family unjustly. If the group doesn't "work" for you, then it doesn't
"work" for you. No blame need apply.
Kimba
Allen Kitchen
Richard Chandler - WA Resident wrote in message
>
>I did notice what seemed like a tag-team effort to take any serious
discussion
I threw the BBQ because Summer is ending. It is a time of change,
and so I wanted to do something fun that everyone could get into. I was
reaffirming friendships and bidding goodbye to a nasty hot summer that
has hung around for far too long.
And since when have you been a lifestyler anyway? What part of
furry do you consider lifestylish?
In case you may wonder, just going to a con is lifestyle for me. It
takes
many resources and efforts to get there, just so I can visit with others and
buy drawings and comic books. Flocking to furry gatherings is a lifestyle
all on its own, and it is damned hard for me to do.
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
Ron Orr... & Tirran
> Besides, wouldn't you eventually
> eat all of the strawberries and soon have no field to dream of? Or do
> fields in dreams constantly replenish themselves? :)
"There will always be more grapes. That's what 'more' means!"
-Dinosaurs
Tir'
(It applies to strawberries, too)
Ron Orr... & Tirran
> She is one voice.
>
> We are many.
>
> Maybe we should all start to tell our stories.
Already done. Not just on my Web site
(http://muskoka.vianet.on.ca/pages/grizelda/fur/furry.html for tham as
haven't seen it yet) but here as well. It's all public, it's all me,
it's all true.
What more can any of us do except be ourselves as hard as we
can?
Tir'
who knows from experience that it works
Farlo
>On Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:54:01 GMT, stan...@abac.com (Farlo) wrote:
>
>> The glass is half-full. =:)
>
>It was. You shouldn't have left it in front of a thirsty FoxWolfie! :)
Gaaah! My scale wax!! =;)
<Grin>
Matt Squirrel
wrote:
> She is, from all appearances, seeking to divorce the lifestylers
>from the fandom apparently feeling that the practices and beliefs of the
>former have no place or relevance with the latter.
What if we like stories and art? And we're not, as a group, part of
the fandom anyhow.
Matt Squirrel
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
writes:
> What if we like stories and art?
Then youre' a crossover. A lifestyler swho is also a Fan. (Two different
things).
> And we're not, as a group, part of the fandom anyhow.
Then stop calling yourselves by our name.
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
> And this is from someone who uses the phrase "what if I told you I
> just said that to tweak you" to duck out of a serious discussion.
It's one thing to end a discussion that was going nowhere with a single
post....
> Even ignoring your past history, this sounds like merely Usenet
> ploy #6: 'Anyone who won't go along with me isn't being serious'.
> We've heard it before, and it STILL doesn't work.
... it's quite another to see what happened to the "Another Disturbing
WebPage" thread. And you can not possibly question that the abrupt right turn
in that thread was anything but silly.
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
Formosa) writes:
> However if you are talking about issues of spirituality ect, then I
> would counter that there have been some quite interesting and deep
> threads about it.
Actually, I've seen it in other threads, where for example, someone posts
looking for sympathy about something going wrong in their life, and within a
few posts, instead of sympathy, folks are griping about how their own life
sucks, and totally ignoring the fur who had a problem to begin with. The
intervening posts will be a few flaccid suggestions, and a few "Just cheer up"
posts.
Flicker
>
> > And we're not, as a group, part of the fandom anyhow.
>
> Then stop calling yourselves by our name.
"It's MY name!"
"No it's NOT! I had it first!"
"I didn't see your name on it!"
"Give it back!"
Sheesh. A lawyer could make a mint with a trademark infringement suit.
-Flicker
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
word that really sums up what you are.
I think this is a good thing. And I wonder why some people insist that there
be one word, for example, "furry" that sums up the totality of their
existence.
David Formosa
>I did notice what seemed like a tag-team effort to take any serious
>discussion and turf it, and substitute some foolish RPing about a BBQ or
>something.
It depeands on what you mean by serious discussion, if by serious discusstion
you mean talking about what is more or less the internal politics of furry
fandom, then yess there was an effort to substitute foolishness for it.
However if you are talking about issues of spirituality ect, then I would
counter that there have been some quite interesting and deep threads about
it.
> Most threads on
>a.l.f end up having nothing to do with their titles after 20 or so messages.
This is commen to most groups on usenet.
--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See the URL in my
header to find out more.
Herman Miller
Galen) wrote:
>On 9 Oct 1998 20:47:53 GMT, Karl Meyer <fer...@enteract.com> wrote:
>
>> You proposed it. It remains to be seen how many use the term. I for one
>> don't plan to. I'll stick with simply being a furry thankyou very much.
>
>Same here. I am a furry. My furriness happens to consist of many things,
>but furry is the only word that fully describes me. If someone asks if I am
>a furry fan, I would say yes. If they ask if I'm a furry lifestyler, I
>would say yes. I am both of these and much more, but the main thing is
>simply that I am a furry. If someone wants to call me a crossover furry, it
>would probably be pretty accurate, but I'll still just call myself a furry.
>I am happy as long as someone doesn't call me something that I am not -
>like a rapist, a sick person or mentally disturbed, etc.
I'm not even a crossover furry, really, because I don't have a furry
lifestyle per se, and my involvement with "furry fandom" as a group is also
minimal. (For reference, my definition of "furry" is essentially equivalent
to "anthropomorphic animal", or as a shorthand for "furry fan", "furry
lifestyler", etc.) I'm interested in furry lifestyle issues, as well as
furry art, but I'm interested in lots of other things like origami and
microtonal music as well. If I had to pick one word that fully describes
me, it wouldn't be "crossover", it would be "eclectic".
What I'm starting to call (for lack of a better word) my "religion" has a
significant furry component, which seems to fit this group better than the
other group with "furry" in its name. But my main interests in "furry" are
more in line with the topics of the other group.
Certainly, I would identify myself as "furry", or even a "furry fan". I'm
also certain that furriness is a significant part of my personality (I
wouldn't go so far as to call it a "lifestyle"), although incomplete by
itself. Still, I don't feel that the category of "crossover" furry fits me.
More accurately, I'm a furry/elf "crossover" (though I think "synthesis" is
a better word). As such, the various facets of my furry side can be seen as
a unified whole in contrast to my fairy side. Alternatively, my "spiritual"
interests (again, for lack of a better word) in both furrykind and elfkind
may be seen as contrasting with my "non-spiritual" interests, or my sexual
interests with my non-sexual interests. Split it up however you like, but
these are all parts that fit together to make a complete whole as far as
I'm concerned.
D. Jean Cooper
<Snort> As *if* there was a copyright on it in the -first- place! I'm a
lifestyler furry and no fan is going to tell me what I can call myself or
not. Lifestyle is *in*clusionary and fandom is *ex*clusionary. If they
want a small clique, then they can have it. Just that they cannot deny
that we have as much right to the name as they do. That's the whole of it
in a nutshell. And about as big as one. -Walk in Balance
Ambergold Wolfeyes (who's just as soon see Mr. Chandler and his ilk go back
to their clique and leave the lifestylers alone for a change)
SCA: Lady Aelfreda O'Llyn Ewig
--
D.Jean Cooper
dcooperatinavdotnet
mok...@hotmail.com
"Cassie Foxx" <skunk...@one.net.au> wrote:
> She is one voice.
Incorrect.
b.root
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Cerulean
>The way I'm reading your post, Herman, is that really, there isn't one single
>word that really sums up what you are.
>
>I think this is a good thing.
I agree.
>And I wonder why some people insist that there
>be one word, for example, "furry" that sums up the totality of their
>existence.
People use "furry" because it's vague. Some situations require one to
be more specific and explain who one is in a full-page essay, and some
situations require one to be even more vague and say "person."
I think that most of us aren't looking for *one* word, we just want to
be able to use any word that applies, from the broadest categories to
the smallest subsets, depending on what we want to say and how much
time we have to say it. "Furry" (defined long ago as anything to do
with beings that are part animal, part human (and defined much longer
ago as having fur or having to do with fur)) is one of those words.
It seems more that you have been saying, "No, 'furry' is my
proprietary name that sums up the totality of what I am, specifically
defined as a person involved in the industry of art and comics with
anthropomorphic characters, subscribed to the newsgroup alt.fan.furry,
who will not acknowledge any pleasure from or personal attachment to
such concepts, and who does not own any plush animals, and
acknowledges fursuiting as a legitimate art as long as the person in
the fursuit doesn't have any unnatural attraction to the idea of being
or really having the body of the character who the suit represents,
and who believes only in human-human sex with the condition that
people should not fantasize about their partner having ears and tails
while doing so. Do not use *my* word to describe yourself if you're at
all different from me." You can then go on and sue the dictionaries
for using your word in such an inclusive way that it can be applied to
ordinary wild animals. See how far you get.
--
___vvz /( Cerulean http://home.att.net/~kevinpease
<__,` Z / ( DC.D/? fs+h++ Gm CB^P a$m++d+++l*g-e!i
`~~~) )Z) ( FDDmp4adwsA+++$C*D>+HM-P-RT+++WZ?Sm#
/ (7 ( ,,'unj 6u!^ey +ou uey+ unj aJow s,+I iunj 3^eH,,
Kimba W. Lion
>And you can not possibly question that the abrupt right turn
>in that thread was anything but silly.
You're entire on-line career seems to be based on deciding what other
people can and cannot do.
Kimba
Kimba W. Lion
>Then stop calling yourselves by our name.
*yawn*
Day #772.
This is really a David Lynch production, isn't it?
Kimba
Allen Kitchen
D. Jean Cooper wrote in message <3622F1B8...@inav.net>...
><Snort> As *if* there was a copyright on it in the -first- place! I'm a
>lifestyler furry and no fan is going to tell me what I can call myself or
>not.
Here Here! Well said fellow lupine!
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
HPickands
In article <362351c...@news.fysh.org>, Kimba...@aol.com (Kimba W. Lion)
writes:
>mau...@gte.net (Richard Chandler - WA Resident) wrote:
>
>>Then stop calling yourselves by our name.
We don't. Never do we call ourselves trolls, Mr. BoltActionRifle.
Harry,
who couldn't resist.
"I'm madder than hell and I'm not going to take it any more!"
-Howard Beale, "Network"-
Locandez
(FoxWolfie Galen) wrote:
>Which really came first - people being furry, or people calling
>themselves furry?
One day a Native American Chief Elder might find himself enlightened as to
the ways of the internet; he finds the furry lifestyle community and
explains to a fascinated audience about his tribe's totemistic beliefs, and
the history behind this spirituality system. Then some furry fan will pop
his head into this newsgroup and indignantly reply, "Why do you call
yourself furry? I should think that I've been reading Omaha the Cat Dancer a
darn sight longer than you've been into that shamanism crap!"
Locandez
--
-- Blank Furvey: http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/lyndale/furvey.txt
--
-- NOTE: The email address that I am posting from is fake.
-- My true email address is: lyndale [at] argonet.co.uk
Most kangaroos are left handed.
Locandez
>"Is that a thread or a cable?!"
Heh :D
>I mean, there has to be over 100 messages to this thread (Or cable ) so
>far. Is the topic of this one little opinionated webpage so interesting?
>Squeerat has a right to her opinion, true, and I'm not denying that,
>but is what she said so important that it has to obsess everybody here?
No doubt Squeerat is either reading this or knows someone who's reading
this, and is delighted to have pissed off so many furries _and_ gained so
much attention.
Locandez
--
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"Idiot horse found orbiting the moon - Eric Clapton tapes on board, say experts."
Locandez
Chandler - WA Resident) wrote:
>I did notice what seemed like a tag-team effort to take any serious
>discussion and turf it, and substitute some foolish RPing about a BBQ or
>something.
I don't think this process is deliberate; it seems that many furs are
content just being light hearted and _socialising_ on the group, rather than
_discussing_. It's like phoning up someone and chatting about miscellaneous
stuff rather than something deep and philosphical - it's not an avoidance
issue.
>Kinda the newsgroup equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and
>singing "LALALALALA!"
(Laalaa? Oh, that's Tirran :}
Locandez
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"Over twelve thousand convicts were released last month, after lying to the Home Office about how long they'd been inside."
Artax
> > And we're not, as a group, part of the fandom anyhow.
>
YOUR name? You co-opted the word "furry" from Webster. Furry Fandom
claiming ownership of the word "furry" is like Science-Fiction Fandom
claiming ownership of the words "science" and "fiction".
If you take the expression "furry fan" literally the "furry" part
refers to anthropomorphic animals. By definition then, "furry
fandom" is a subset of something more inclusive because being a
fan of artwork containing anthropomorphic animals is only one of
many ways that one can relate to such beings. (As just one example
a person can have an anthropomorphic animal as a spirit guide.)
FurryMUCK is so-named because the vast majority of characters that
are played in it are anthropomorpic animals, not because it has
some kind of affiliation with Furry Fandom or any connection to
comics and art. Yet I don't see you demanding they change their
name. Nor do you lack a motivation to, since TSing on FurryMUCK
has featured prominently in recent negative articles about furry
subcultures in the mainstream press.
Similarly, alt.lifestyle.furry is so-named because the vast
majority of the topics for which it was created center around
anthropomorphic animals and/or the concept of animal
anthropomorphism. I'm not going to say that 100% of the topics do,
because if someone feels that the topics they came here do discuss
don't have that at their center, but they have some other important
link to the other things that are discussed here, then that's fine,
the distinction isn't that important. But animal anthropomorphism
is the closest thing to a single underlying theme that this
newsgroup has, and that's good enough for it to be named
alt.lifestyle.furry.
BTW, there are multiple cases recorded of people coming to this
newsgroup who had independently been using the word "furry" in
essentially the same way it's used here without any awareness that
anyone else in the world was doing the same thing. At least one
person here has been doing it since the 1970's. Perhaps we should
demand on that basis that Furry Fans stop using OUR word in the
name of their organization.
a res. | Artax
r p c | (Brad Austin)
t x o |
ax@i m | Oceanside, CA USA
David Gonterman
>Not he, she. Squeerat wrote that. I never knew what a brillant writer she is.
>You have to admit, she has some good points. She's just sick of being considered
>a furry when furry implies so many other sick things. Can you blame her?
>
>I have to admit, i can see where she's coming from.
>I had to feel like an outcast by actually not letting on furry porno onto my art
>site. I don't think that's such an outrageous thing, and it's a little annoying
>to be thought of as the weird one for not wanting anything to do with it.
Oh. My. Sweet. God.
I'm in a loss for words here.
I find myself agreeing with Ratman.
(A few moments while I pause to get the shock out of the system)
What I really want to say that I agree in spirit, if not in the exact
words, what Ms. Squeerat has said in her manifesto. The term 'Furry'
and what that term represents has indeed been soured by a select
few--and I believe that this is a tiny faction of the Furry Fandom as
a whole--who are dragging the rest of us to the ground.
And I'm a cartoonist who is basing his first professional comic strip
on the Furry Lifestyle, and Fursuits in particular. Do I consider
myself as a Furry. It depends: What's your definition? Just keep in
mind that I have a line where Furrydom ends and the outright debasment
(In my own opinion, your's is allowed to differ) begins. I rank
myself somewhere where Squeerat is in level of Furrydom. I consider
myself more of a Furry Artist and Furry Fan, than a Furry Lifestyler.
I have also had my own share of flame wars, and I have found this out
to be true: Sometimes the most intolerable bigot you'll ever find is
not someone in a white sheet, standing in a pulpit, or even in the
main stream of society. It could very well be the one claiming to be
the most tolerant person around who is the most hate-filled. I'm not
aiming this at any one person or lifestyle. This will apply to any
hotly debated (And I use this term loosely) topic. For example, the
poster child for the furry lyfestyle who is every bit a furball with
the exception of the DNA code may claim to be the most tolerant beast
on record, but give that person a print out of Screerat's page and
that very tolerant person would be demanding Screerat's public
Lynching, will do it herself, air it on all the networks, bring every
one of his-her friends to join in, and claim that they have carte
blance to do whatever the hell they wish, and nobody else have dare
ever as much as look at them disapprovingly lest a worse fate falls on
that unfortunate sinner.
I ask you, who exactly is the Intolerant of the Furry Lifestyle, the
definition of 'Furry' or what it means to be refered to as that:
Screerat, or her detractors?
David Gonterman-----...@aol.com-----------------
FoxFire Studios--------http://users.aol.com/dgonterman------------------
FoxFire Comic Strip----http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/8256/FoxFire-------