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Ironhoof

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Feb 4, 2003, 5:11:04 AM2/4/03
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Urrf, should I really fill this out...? What can it hurt, I guess.

Furvey 3.5

==========


Yourself

========

1. What is your name?

You mean I need to settle on one? :)

For those who haven't dared to visit my website at
www.furnation.com/chibiabos and seen the ... ummm ... "more than one"
characters I go by, here are /some/ of the character nicks and very
brief descriptions I've played in the past and/or continue to play (yes
some names were recycled for different characters and yes, I need to
update my furnation site with some of these characters):

Alyph - male gryphon (Spheres MUX)
Badajiva - tigress (India MUCK)
Bolt - stallion (Thunder Trails MUSH)
Borntobewild - cougar (Wild Spirits MUSH, Lintilla's Forest)
Chibiabos - wolf spirit (Thunder Trails MUSH)
Dustcloud - male wolf (Thunder Trails MUSH)
Garmsateja - lioness (India MUCK)
Goldclaw - cougress (Thunder Trails MUSH)
Gyarahabala - male wolf (India MUCK)
Gyana - old djole bitch,feature character (India MUCK)
Ironhoof - 'Amazonian' wild mare (Wild Spirits MUSH, Thunder Trails
MUSH, Tapestries MUCK, now have a Yahoo! group devouted to this
character where I've been posting a series of stories I am writing about
her; probably one of my most widely-known characters)
Heliosa - ditzy Mustang mare (Thunder Trails MUSH)
Juujini - male Martial eagle (African Trails MUCK)
Klondike - male Occidentalis ('McKenzie Valley') wolf (Wolfhome, Wild
Spirits MUSH, Thunder Trails MUSH, Yukon Trails MUCK [died there
recently])
Londikin - male quadrupedal German Shepherd (Spheres MUX)
Mars - mustang stallion, half-brother of Ironhoof (Thunder Trails MUSH)
Nyigakali - Ethiopian wolf bitch (African Trails MUCK)
Redmoon - wolf bitch (Thunder Trails MUSH, Tapestries MUSH)
Rags - male mutt dog (Yukon Trails MUCK)
Strongheart - mustang mare, half-sister [biologically] of Ironhoof (Wild
Spirits MUSH, Thunder Trails MUSH)
Terrayme - old desert wolf bitch (Wild Spirits MUSH)
Windwalker - wolf bitch (Yukon Trails MUCK)
Zeta Eagle - male bald eagle (various places around the zoo net)
Zetan - Aldani dragoness (Spheres MUX)
Zetan - male bald eagle (Wild Spirits MUSH & various places around the
zoo net)

RL Name: ?Security access violation

2. What is your email address?

Ironhoof*wolfhowl.org
(*=@ munging)

3. Are you male or female?

IRL, male. My RL astrological birth chart, however, has me as equal
parts male and female in my soul - and that's rather how I've felt my
entire life; neither masculine nor feminine. I guess I'm a
hermaphrodyte trapped in a man's body. ;D I have no compunction to 'be
a man,' nor have I any desire to be 'feminine.'


4. How old are you? / What is your date of birth?

IRL, 26. Birthdate - 10 March 1976

5. Where do you live?

?Security Access Violation

Somewhere on the west coast of the U.S.

6. What are your interests/hobbies?

My canine mate above all else, Roleplaying (obviously ;D), writing,
website design

7. What do you do for a living?

Currently unemployed. Past occupations have included computer technical
support, webmaster, technical writer (aerospace)

8. How would you describe your personality?

In 'flux.' IRL, introverted though nowhere near as bad as I once was;
pessimistic; general anxiety and major depression sufferer (both dx'd)

9. Do you believe in ESP? Do you consider yourself to be psychic?

I've had a number of events in my life that really push the
'coincidence' envelope. I do believe in communications and perceptions
that are beyond current human understanding. I have times when I am in
'tune' with those I have been extremely close with and, even when
separated by thousands of miles and unable to communicate with them,
have sensed when something was going wrong.

10. Are you a meat eater?

Yes, but I boycott beef, mutton, wool and leather due to the cattle
industry's war to exterminate wolves.

Furry media

===========

[more info: http://yiffle.cjb.net/fandom/]

11. Who are your favourite furry characters?

In terms of other furry's characters I've run across that really strike
out as my favorite ... Core, Heart-Seer, Kavik, MoonShadow, Nascha,
Nokomis, Stormcaller, Hawkwings, Liluye, RunningWind, Tempest and
Visions of Wild Spirits MUSH; Tehawa and BlackHawk of Thunder Trails
MUSH; Kateri, BlueHeel and Selene of Yukon Trails MUSH

Characters in movies: Balto, Mrs. Brisby and Justin from "The Secret of
NIMH," Spirit and the unnamed bald eagle from "Spirit: Stallion of the
Cimarron"; Simba and Nala from "The Lion King"

Characters in books: Yellow Eyes (from the book by the same name), Buck
(from "The Call Of The Wild"), White Fang (from the book of the same
name)

12. What type of furry artwork do you enjoy viewing?

Non-anthropomorphic (tor's art as an example)

13. What type of furry literature do you enjoy reading?

Again, non-anthropomorphic


14. What types of furry media do you create?

Stories and 'roleplay' - www.furnation.com/chibiabos is my 'general'
roleplay website where I have a couple roleplay logs posted;
groups.yahoo.com/group/ironhoof is where I currently am posting my
Ironhoof story series I am working on (actually shortly to expand into a
second Ironhoof series)

15. What types of animal/furry themed decorations adorn your living
space?

Currently, only a photo of my canine mate

16. Describe your ideal plushie.

One that's not near me. Plushies, to me, are nothing more than dead
carpet; I have no interest in them in a sexual sense. I do have some
plastic model German Shepherds and wolves that decorate my living space.

Costumes and collars

====================

17. Do you enjoy wearing fursuits and/or furry accessories?

No, not unless this includes wildlife artwork clothing (I have several
shirts with wolves, eagles on them).

18. Do you feel 'furrier' when wearing a fursuit/collar/tail etc?

No, and I don't.


19. Describe your favourite/ideal 'furry' appearance.

Not applicable to me. Maybe I'm not really 'furry'? Dunno.

Furriness

=========


20. What are your phenotype(s)?

I have three: A bald eagle, a mountain lion (or cougar or puma if you
prefer) and a wolf. Actually have two 'wolves' within me, I feel.

21. How/when did you discover the identity/species of your phenotype?

Eagle - this is very difficult to translate into words, but when I was
16 or 17 I had an experience while asleep that was far more intense than
a dream. I was soaring over mountains and valleys, I could actually
/feel/ the tug of the air rushing past on my feathers and I could see
the ground below in far, far greater detail than is possible with human
eyes. I have come to believe, or at least go through phases where I
believe this was a memory of a past life.

The eagle is my 'explorer' side trying to explore new horizons and
forever broaden my perspective and horizons. I fear, however, the eagle
may be dead within me ...

Cougar - Nothing as striking or vivid for me as my eagle 'fursona'
above, but the cougar I feel is the part of myself I've rarely explore
... its my violent side. I'm pacifist to a fault and aside from
roleplay, I don't really give this side of me much of an outlet as only
extremely, extremely rarely have I had any violent thoughts IRL.

The wolf - There are actually two wolves within me, a male and a female
wolf. The male wolf, the one I portray as 'Klondike,' is the part of me
that seeks to do 'deeds' and 'quests' for others, but he has trouble
getting and being close to others. The other wolf, the shewolf I call
'Midnyte Blue,' is my intimate side.

22. What conditions help you to enjoy/express your furriness?

Basically just roleplaying or storywriting.


23. How and when was your furriness first evident?

My relationships with other species has always been ... well ...
strange. When I was /very/ little, I actually used to have an unusual
fear dogs and the like IRL and I was bit several times. I had
nightmares about being eaten alive ... when I was 8 or so, those
nightmares transformed into pleasant fantasies and when I was 16 or 17,
I had the 'event' described above.

24. How much of your furriness is 'instinct' vs 'learnt'?

My human side, I think, is the one that is 'learnt' and has become the
pessimist I am today from all the crap I've been through IRL. I feel
its muddled my inner eagle, inner cougar and inner wolves.

25. How does your furriness influence your thoughts and emotions?

My dream in life is to be with my canine mate isolated in the mountains,
far from any other humans.


26. Has your furriness improved the quality of your life?

As I don't know what my life might have been like without my inner
'beasts,' I don't really have a baseline to compare with.


27. What do you think caused your furriness?

Past life as other species ... sometimes I truly believe this, sometimes
I don't. I think there's something definitely 'in my spirit' that's at
the core of who I am, I just don't have an adequate means of
understanding what its nature is or why it is there.

Acting furry

============

28. How does your furriness manifest itself externally?

Difficult to say ... I feel more comfortable and drawn to spend more
time with dogs and other non-human species of animal than humans.

29. Do you act furry in public?

No, I do my best to hide that which is different about me from the
general public IRL.


30. How does your furriness influence the way you interact with people?

Again, I don't know how I would interact with people had I no inner
beast. I guess compared with someone who is 'normal,' I was, in the
past, very aloof -- a 'loner.' I didn't feel I could understand how
others feel, and even more strongly I felt no one else could understand
how I feel.

I changed quite a bit when I learned to accept things about myself;
while I am still fairly introverted and a bit aloof, its nowhere near as
severe as it was when I was younger.


31. How much control do you have over your furriness?;

I've managed to hide it, but trying to bottle things in has had a toll
on my psyche.

Furry thoughts

==============

32. Would you become an animal/furry, if you -couldn't- change back?

Without hesitation nor ever looking back.


33. Describe your ideal physical form.

Presently I'd prefer to be lupine, even if it meant a quick death given
the ongoing war against wolves.

34. What kind of furry, non-sexual fantasies do you have?

Reference my 'eagle' experience above ... if you think of it as a
fantasy, which I'm sure most others would assume it to be.


Religion/Spirituality

=====================

35. Is your furriness compatible with your religion?

As I freed myself from organized religion and now consider myself
'spiritually independent,' yes. I've built my spiritual/religious
beliefs around who I am and what I really feel.


36. Has your furriness led you to reconsider your religious beliefs?

My fantasies involving other species of animal was one of the factors
that drove me from Christianity my mother tried to push on me when I was
little.

37. Have you ever communicated with an animal spirit?

Yes, definitely.


38. Do you believe that you were an animal in a former life?

Yes, as explained above.


39. Do you believe that you have an animal soul?

Four 'inner beasts' or 'inner creatures' as described above.


Animals

=======

40. What animals are you most/least comfortable with?

Least - humans
Most - wolves and dogs presently, but also strong affinities for birds,
large felines (have been 'turned off' to domestic cats though I used to
spend hours petting our family cats), horses are okay


41. Do you believe that animals have ESP?

I know other species have means of perception and communication that
humans currently do not possess the capability of fully scientifically
understanding.


42. Do you think it is acceptable to hunt/raise animals for food?

Ideally - hunt in the wild, yes, but only if done 'right' and for
sustinence. Going as humans presently do and taking out the biggest and
strongest, destroying the natural evolutionary process is very wrong in
my eyes. Owning another being solely for food is also wrong, though I
have not completely phased out buying meat from a supermarket in my life
... I am into my second year of boycotting beef, however.


43. Do you think it is acceptable to hunt/raise animals for fur/leather?

No.

44. Do you think it is acceptable to hunt/raise animals for sport?

Hunting and killing are not sports.

Internet

========

45. What are your favourite websites?

I miss Asikaa's old furry website and I loved Tor's when Actaeon updated
it. I like Rog Minotaur's website, among others.

46. What are your favourite furry mailing lists?

Not really on any active ones, but I like non-anthropomorphic 'critter'
RPGs and am on a couple very inactive PBEM ones.


47. How did you discover alt.lifestyle.furry?

Don't really recall.


48. What were your very first impressions of alt.lifestyle.furry?

Not really sure if I 'fit in' but thought I'd give it a shot, especially
when zoophilia was raised and also to advertise my non-anthropomorphic
furry roleplay MUSH when it was running.

49. What do you like the most/least about alt.lifestyle.furry?

Most - just like exploring to see whether I'm sufficiently 'within the
fringes' to fit in, though I know I'll never be close to 'mainstream'
and I don't intend to alter myself to be that way.

Least - Hmmm, well, I consider myself an outsider here, so most of it I
have little comment about. However, the bigotry and prejudgementalism
expressed to me about myself as a zoophile is a bit disheartening,
though not really surprising.


50. What would you like to see more/less of in alt.lifestyle.furry?

More intelligent, rational debates
Less unfounded bigotry and prejudgementalism of others


Sexuality/Relationships

=======================

51. Describe your ideal partner.

In general terms, I'm an equal opportunity lover for species and gender.
However due to experience, I've decided against entering into another
relationship with a human (humans wearing the skin of another species
included). I am both zoophilic and zoosexual and my current mate of
five years is a female German Shepherd. I tend to go by the
'personality,' however, and not really the species - but wolves, wolf
hybrids and 'wolf-like' dogs are the ones I am most likely to be
affectionate with.

52. What type of furry sexual fantasies do you have?

I guess mine are more 'zoosexual' than what's typically thought of
'furry sexual.' I won't do a human trying to dress up / costume as
another species any more than I'd do a human that wouldn't.


53. Has your gender preference changed since discovering the furry
community?

Not really ... indifferent to gender before, still indifferent to
gender.


54. What species of animal do you find the sexiest?

Hard to decide ... I have my phases. Wolves, currently.

55. What part of an animal's body do you find the most attractive/sexy?

I really rather take in the whole 'being' and not just the body. I'm
really turned on by intense emotional/spiritual intimate bond with
another being; I've found sex with those I am not deeply in love with
tends to leave me feeling a hundred times emptier than masturbating.


56. What cartoon characters are/were you attracted to?

Balto, Simba and I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple.

*gets zapped by the computer*

Errf, guess it /can/ hurt, lol.

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 5:23:25 AM2/4/03
to
Forgot to mention my recent discovery of the movie "Princess Mononoke"
and I really like the Moro no Kimi (wolf goddess) character, her pups
and Yakkul from that movie.

Dave

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 9:53:13 AM2/4/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> shall never vanquished be
until great Birnam wood to high alt.lifestyle.furry. hill shall come
against him.

>IRL, 26. Birthdate - 10 March 1976

Happy Birthday Nanny.

>Ironhoof*wolfhowl.org
>(*=@ munging)

That's Ebonlupus's Domain name/server/whatever it is isn't it?
Has he been makeing you hate people!?!?!?!?!
You need to learn to love life, just like repilcant Roy.
Look at the postive as well as the negative,
Even the Soviet union (bad as it could be) Had a National Healthcare
system, And liveing standards have acutally decreased in russia since
it fell.

>My RL astrological birth chart, however, has me as equal

YOU JUST MADE SNUHWOLF CRY!

>No, not unless this includes wildlife artwork clothing (I have several
>shirts with wolves, eagles on them).

I have ones with the Hammer & Sickle on!
It gets dirty looks from germans though.
Esp from peope old enough to remember East German Peoples republics
thing.

>Least - humans

That's why your posting here right?

>Least - Hmmm, well, I consider myself an outsider here, so most of it I
>have little comment about. However, the bigotry and prejudgementalism
>expressed to me about myself as a zoophile is a bit disheartening,
>though not really surprising.

That's only to be expected. It is something that some of us, Well I,
struggle with it very much, Why someTimes, I feel only great heate for
it and myself, and yet sometimes I feel positively about it and only
the greatest affection for Dog, But sometimes I think of them only as
cartesian Automata and feel contempt for them.

I think it tends to depend on my moods. But It's not out of any
dislike of you as a person HTH.

>tends to leave me feeling a hundred times emptier than masturbating.

YOU JUST MADE SNUHWOLF CRY AGAIN!!

>
---
9 to 5 and 5 to 9
Ain't gonna take it
It's our time
We want the world
and we want it now
We're gonna take it anyhow

Dave

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 10:45:20 AM2/4/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> shall never vanquished be
until great Birnam wood to high alt.lifestyle.furry. hill shall come
against him.

>Ideally - hunt in the wild, yes, but only if done 'right' and for
>sustinence. Going as humans presently do and taking out the biggest and
>strongest, destroying the natural evolutionary process is very wrong in
>my eyes.

Also, FYI The Theory of evolution says nothing about the Biggest and
strongest animals being best or anything like that.

For example when humans start hunting wolves, They may shoot the
biggest strongest ones, In order to prove how "good" they are to other
people right?

Therefore, in that situation, Small Weak wolves are the most likely to
survive, so according to the theory of evolution under the current
circumstances those small weak wolves are best.

Good and bad are human concepts, which have nothing to do with the
theory of evolution or the "Natural evolutionarily process", Indeed we
humans are the result of it, so we are simply part of the natural
evolutionarily process anyway.

Or maybe, due to climate change, larger wolves find it hard to
maintain their body heat as their area gets colder, so only the
smaller weaker ones survive, since they can keep warmer with less
expenditure of energy.

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 10:22:23 AM2/4/03
to
On Tue, 04 Feb 2003 14:53:13 GMT, dsa...@yahoo.co.uk (Dave) wrote:

>Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> shall never vanquished be
>until great Birnam wood to high alt.lifestyle.furry. hill shall come
>against him.
>
>>IRL, 26. Birthdate - 10 March 1976
>
>Happy Birthday Nanny.

Not for another month yet.


>
>>Ironhoof*wolfhowl.org
>>(*=@ munging)
>
>That's Ebonlupus's Domain name/server/whatever it is isn't it?
>Has he been makeing you hate people!?!?!?!?!

People have made me hate people.

>You need to learn to love life, just like repilcant Roy.

Would that I had a life to love.

>Look at the postive as well as the negative,

Positive? Mine might be over soon ... then I won't have to put up with
it anymore. :D

>Even the Soviet union (bad as it could be) Had a National Healthcare
>system, And liveing standards have acutally decreased in russia since
>it fell.

In addition to anxiety and depression, I have this wonderful disease
called migraine ... yes, its classified as a disease now. I've had it
all my life, but didn't have it diagnosed until late 2000. I'm in the
17th month of a continuous migraine headache and my previous
prescription doesn't work on it anymore, and I just ran out of my state
health care so can't afford any more treatment.


>
>>My RL astrological birth chart, however, has me as equal
>
>YOU JUST MADE SNUHWOLF CRY!

Snuhwolf?


>
>>No, not unless this includes wildlife artwork clothing (I have several
>>shirts with wolves, eagles on them).
>
>I have ones with the Hammer & Sickle on!
>It gets dirty looks from germans though.
>Esp from peope old enough to remember East German Peoples republics
>thing.
>
>>Least - humans
>
>That's why your posting here right?

Mostly just 'cuz I'm bored, actually. :D

Russ

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 5:47:23 AM2/4/03
to
"Ironhoof" <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote in message
news:imvu3vgkf4bb43rjb...@4ax.com...

>
> Characters in movies: Balto, Mrs. Brisby and Justin from "The Secret of
> NIMH," Spirit and the unnamed bald eagle from "Spirit: Stallion of the
> Cimarron"; Simba and Nala from "The Lion King"

Hmm... good list! I'd totally forgotten the Secret of Nimh when I did
this... Don Bluth's work really went downhill after that non-Disney
premiere. :( Mice are always cute. ;)


--
Russ ;)
----------
FEH[Pony]p5adms/ArDw5dm A- C* D- H M+ P++ R-- T+++ W- Z- Sp+ RLA/BM/CT/ET/LW
a22 cdln++$ d+ e++ f-- h- iw+++ j+ p* sm+


Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 11:26:41 AM2/4/03
to
On Tue, 04 Feb 2003 15:45:20 GMT, dsa...@yahoo.co.uk (Dave) wrote:

>Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> shall never vanquished be
>until great Birnam wood to high alt.lifestyle.furry. hill shall come
>against him.
>
>
>>Ideally - hunt in the wild, yes, but only if done 'right' and for
>>sustinence. Going as humans presently do and taking out the biggest and
>>strongest, destroying the natural evolutionary process is very wrong in
>>my eyes.
>
>Also, FYI The Theory of evolution says nothing about the Biggest and
>strongest animals being best or anything like that.

Recently, the deer population in many areas in the U.S., notably
Wisconsin, had a massive infestation. The Wisconsin government is
begging deer hunters to exterminate as many deer as they can to stop the
spread of the disease.

Why did this happen? Its not hard to imagine the extermination of the
deer's natural predators had a large effect. Natural predators like
wolves primarily target weak, diseased and enfeebled deer - the very
deer that human hunters ignore in order to go for the strongest and
healthiest deer.

In eliminating species like the wolf, we've pulled out important threads
and the delicate tapestry that is the ecosystem falls apart.


>
>For example when humans start hunting wolves, They may shoot the
>biggest strongest ones, In order to prove how "good" they are to other
>people right?

Actually, humans exterminate /all/ wolves. Wolves used to roam
throughout the United States but now only a few states have a handful
left. There was a mass extermination campaign that virtually eliminted
the wolf from the U.S. between about 1920 and 1950.


>
>Therefore, in that situation, Small Weak wolves are the most likely to
>survive, so according to the theory of evolution under the current
>circumstances those small weak wolves are best.

Natural and artificial not congruent terms.


>
>Good and bad are human concepts, which have nothing to do with the
>theory of evolution or the "Natural evolutionarily process", Indeed we
>humans are the result of it, so we are simply part of the natural
>evolutionarily process anyway.

We are a force against the natural evolutionary process. Things like
the climactic change are survivable through evolution; natural evolution
ensures the smartest and best-adapted survive. Humans, however, ensure
the weakest and sickliest survive in its own and other species.


>
>Or maybe, due to climate change, larger wolves find it hard to
>maintain their body heat as their area gets colder, so only the
>smaller weaker ones survive, since they can keep warmer with less
>expenditure of energy.

Actually, the reverse is true ... smaller bodies lose heat faster; this
is why arctic and subarctic wolves are much larger than wolves from
warmer climates. Canis Lupus Arctos (Arctic wolf) gets upwards of 150
lbs; by comparison, the Canis Lupus Arabs (Arabian peninsula wolf)
normally isn't any larger than 40 lbs.

-- Ironhoof

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 11:29:05 AM2/4/03
to
On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:47:23 -0000, "Russ"
<russell...@btopenworld.com> wrote:

>"Ironhoof" <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote in message
>news:imvu3vgkf4bb43rjb...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Characters in movies: Balto, Mrs. Brisby and Justin from "The Secret of
>> NIMH," Spirit and the unnamed bald eagle from "Spirit: Stallion of the
>> Cimarron"; Simba and Nala from "The Lion King"
>
>Hmm... good list! I'd totally forgotten the Secret of Nimh when I did
>this... Don Bluth's work really went downhill after that non-Disney
>premiere. :( Mice are always cute. ;)

And I forgot about Mononoke which is why I made a supplement for that
wonderful movie ... I generally don't like anime, but those wolves ...
oooh! Though I rather Moro no Kimi had one tail. Imagine embracing
that fur ... a wolf bigger than a horse!

Ironhoof

Mr Cougar

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 1:29:57 PM2/4/03
to
"Ironhoof" <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote:

> 20. What are your phenotype(s)?
>
> I have three: A bald eagle, a mountain lion (or cougar or puma if you
> prefer) and a wolf. Actually have two 'wolves' within me, I feel.

Coolness on the cougar! :)


> 21. How/when did you discover the identity/species of your phenotype?

> Cougar - Nothing as striking or vivid for me as my eagle 'fursona'
> above, but the cougar I feel is the part of myself I've rarely explore
> ... its my violent side. I'm pacifist to a fault and aside from
> roleplay, I don't really give this side of me much of an outlet as only
> extremely, extremely rarely have I had any violent thoughts IRL.

Don't keep a bigcat trapped within! ;)

--
- F J Cougar-

www.cougars-place.launchbase.com

Russ

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Feb 4, 2003, 6:40:22 PM2/4/03
to
"Ironhoof" <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote in message
news:7dmv3v0fvrj4khqhu...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 04 Feb 2003 14:53:13 GMT, dsa...@yahoo.co.uk (Dave) wrote:
> >You need to learn to love life, just like repilcant Roy.
>
> Would that I had a life to love.

Actually I'm inclined to agree with Dave... I'm a zoo, a little younger than
yourself, and I've had some pretty nasty things happen to me over the
years - a divorce when I was young, my mom discovering I was zoo, her death
from cancer last year (she was only 46, I'm only 22!), my near death from
bullying on several occasions, and I've had my heart wrenched about a fair
bit. A couple years ago yeah, I didn't really like people, and had resigned
myself to a life of solitude.... didn't much like life either.

In many respects the solitude is still there, and I'm never gonna be the
socialite, but I'm very happy to be me, and I had to learn a lot of tricks
that made me happy. First up had to be work... I absolutely ADORE web
design, and as some people on this board might be able to attest to, I work
like a trojan at it... it makes me happy to create things.

Second up is music. I find music that picks me up, and I listen to it as
much as I can. Lemon jelly, Nickle Creek (the House of Tom Bombadil and the
Fox's Tail are genius!), Paul Simon's Graceland album, Chicane, the Beatles,
Badly Drawn Boy... trouble is finding the stuff. :)

I guess what happened to me is I got really narked at a lot of people and
regressed into zoophilia, where I became a rather devoted equiphile. Over
time I realised that it would be many, many years until I was able to
achieve the life as an equiphile I would've wanted, so I forced myself to do
a lot of things that made my life easier - I went to uni, in my second year
bit the bullet and took a job that required a high degree of socialising
(the best thing I ever did!) and I'm now working for BT again doing a rather
sociable job, and things are going well for me. The equiphilia is still
there, though not exclusively so. I kind feel like I've discovered a very
beautiful and pure facet of life, that I'm not keen to let go of!

But like yourself I totally agree that mankind is busily destroying it's
home, and there are a great many wrongs in the world. I had to learn that
the only things I should stress about are those I can directly change
myself. Everything else I have to shut out, otherwise I'd probably just
fall apart.

Umm... why am I writing all this again? I suspect I've meandered off-topic
some. Sorry. :) Anyways Ironhoof, my advice to you is that you will not
be able to dislike life and people as much as I guess you do without
absolutely wrecking yourself... noone can. You appear to have a lot of
sound thoughts and sound morals going on there, and you owe it to people
around you to make use of 'em by looking after yourself. Sometimes you
gotta ignore one bunch of morals to be able to acively work on the stuff
that's left.

<clause class="copout">IMHO, of course.</clause>

Skytech

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 6:45:19 PM2/4/03
to
> Urrf, should I really fill this out...? What can it hurt, I guess.
>
> Furvey 3.5
>
> ==========
>

Depends on how much pepper you put in your soup. Speaking of such,
have a hot
and mandatoraly fresh cup of soup and, of course, welcome to the
Wonderful (virtual)World of Homestead!

Hm, furvey... Must read.

>
> 1. What is your name?
>
> You mean I need to settle on one? :)
>

Makes your sig a lot shorter.
--
La gvatantaj vulpoj (The vigilant foxes)
Skytech Lana
^^ ^^
<@@> <~~>
.] .]

Russ

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 6:54:08 PM2/4/03
to
"Ironhoof" <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote in message
news:imvu3vgkf4bb43rjb...@4ax.com...
--->8 Snip long list of folks 8<---

Umm.. okay, now I know when in Rome and all... but that's a LOT of soup!
*rummages through cupboards* A tin of French onion and some carrots...
nope. I've got some parsnips, pasta, pitta-bread, pizza, polenta, potatoes,
and lotsa soya stuff...

§ñühwØLf

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 9:02:43 PM2/4/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org>
wrote<imvu3vgkf4bb43rjb...@4ax.com>:

> Urrf, should I really fill this out...? What can it hurt, I guess.
>

> 1. What is your name?
>
> You mean I need to settle on one? :)

*boggles*
Wow...you're worse than that Sybil chick...as the official therapist of
ALF, I have diagnosed you with MPD (multiple personality disorder).
Report to the clinic for treatment immediately.

~Prince Snuhwolf~ MD, PhD, DDT, LSD
:O)

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 9:10:01 PM2/4/03
to

Rabbitswift

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 1:11:43 AM2/5/03
to
Welcome, Ironhoof. Or is it welcome back? I just assumed you were a
returning poster or something so maybe I missed an intro? If so, my
apologies.
Anyway, nice to meet ya.

> 1. What is your name?
>
> You mean I need to settle on one? :)
>

*Names snipped but read.* Wow. And you can keep all that straight, can
you? Do you have one you prefer? I have enough trouble remembering
names as it is.

> 7. What do you do for a living?
>
> Currently unemployed. Past occupations have included computer
technical
> support, webmaster, technical writer (aerospace)
>

I'm impressed. I'll be 24 in a few days and the best I've managed is
mailroom clerk.

> 19. Describe your favourite/ideal 'furry' appearance.
>
> Not applicable to me. Maybe I'm not really 'furry'? Dunno.
>

Eh, I sorta see the term "furry" as only a blanket term for a group of
people with shared beliefs, interests, etc. I only consider myself a "fur"
insofar as furs are people who, like me, feel some sort of connection to
animals. So really the definition is, as far as I'm concerned, up to each
individual.

> 34. What kind of furry, non-sexual fantasies do you have?
>
> Reference my 'eagle' experience above ... if you think of it as a
> fantasy, which I'm sure most others would assume it to be.
>

But just because something is a dream or a fantasy doesn't mean it isn't
valid. At least as far as I'm concerned. I don't typically look for meaning in
my dreams but I think that if someone feels a particular dream or fantasy
has a meaning then perhaps it does.

> 49. What do you like the most/least about alt.lifestyle.furry?
>
> Most - just like exploring to see whether I'm sufficiently 'within the
> fringes' to fit in, though I know I'll never be close to 'mainstream'
> and I don't intend to alter myself to be that way.
>
> Least - Hmmm, well, I consider myself an outsider here, so most of it I
> have little comment about. However, the bigotry and prejudgementalism
> expressed to me about myself as a zoophile is a bit disheartening,
> though not really surprising.
>

I am sorry that you've been made to feel uncomfortable here. It's
unfortunate that the opinions of a few have reflected negatively on the
whole group. For myself I strive to understand something as well as I can
before passing any sort of judgement. I hope things improve for you.
--Rabbit the Skunk

"Rabbits, like gods, are timid, But they are not easily beaten."
from "The Rabbit in the Moon"© M.Williams, 2003
Furcode: FMS[Spotted Skunk]3s/CF[Swift Fox]3s A- C- D H+ M? P R
T++++ W Z+ Sm?/m? RLLW/AT a23 c+ d e++ f++++ !h i+ j+ p++ sm#


Ben

unread,
Feb 4, 2003, 10:49:17 PM2/4/03
to

Wow, schitzophrenic much? Well, whoever you are welcome and *huggs*. I'll just
call you Ironhoof if you don't mind too much. And you can call me..

-Dexter, you know, the fox

Warren Forest

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 12:01:29 AM2/5/03
to
"Ironhoof" <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote in message
news:imvu3vgkf4bb43rjb...@4ax.com...

> 49. What do you like the most/least about alt.lifestyle.furry?
>
> Most - just like exploring to see whether I'm sufficiently 'within the
> fringes' to fit in, though I know I'll never be close to 'mainstream'
> and I don't intend to alter myself to be that way.

Heh... ALF is off the beaten path of the path that's off the beaten path, so
don't worry too much. ;-)


> Least - Hmmm, well, I consider myself an outsider here, so most of it I
> have little comment about. However, the bigotry and prejudgementalism
> expressed to me about myself as a zoophile is a bit disheartening,
> though not really surprising.

Actually, the debate wasn't as bad as sometimes. Usually when the subject
is raised there's one or two die hard zoo haters that jump in and insult
like crazy. I wouldn't care, normally, but they end up distracting away
others from the debate, and so the opportunity to talk about it
intelligently is lost. I think I honestly learned more about the subject in
this debate than in all the other times it's been discussed.


--
Warren Forest, Canis Lupus Arctos - The Canadian Arctic Wolf
FCW3a A- C D++ H+ M- P+ R+ T++++ W Z- Sm#
RLET a31 c++ d-- e+ f h+ i+ j p- sm#
Change "Cold" to "Hot" to e-mail me.


Starling

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 3:47:06 AM2/5/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> writes:

> Urrf, should I really fill this out...? What can it hurt, I guess.

No, nobody ever fills out a furvey here. What were you thinking??
Just kidding. ^.^

<names snipped>

Wow... 25? I only have 17. o.o On MUCKs, that is.

> 10. Are you a meat eater?
>
> Yes, but I boycott beef, mutton, wool and leather due to the cattle
> industry's war to exterminate wolves.

Wolves? I'd boycott cattle for its war to exterminate trees, but I
don't know about wolves.

> 13. What type of furry literature do you enjoy reading?
>
> Again, non-anthropomorphic

Refresh my memory. By non-anthropomorphic do you mean quadrupedal?

> 16. Describe your ideal plushie.
>
> One that's not near me. Plushies, to me, are nothing more than dead
> carpet;

But they're soft... and cuddly. Nothing wrong with dead cloth.

> I have no interest in them in a sexual sense.

Now that I can agree with. :)

> 19. Describe your favourite/ideal 'furry' appearance.
>
> Not applicable to me. Maybe I'm not really 'furry'? Dunno.

*shrugs* I've seen a few humans around here. It's not like everyone
has to feel like something else. Ultimately it all comes down to
what you want to talk about. We talk about furry here. ^.^

> 22. What conditions help you to enjoy/express your furriness?
>
> Basically just roleplaying or storywriting.

It's all a story really, a great big wonderful story. Though it may
end, we have nothing better we can do than living for the story. Or
stories as such the case may be. There's only one real story, but
frankly I've found the imaginary ones to be much more important. You?

> 29. Do you act furry in public?
>
> No, I do my best to hide that which is different about me from the
> general public IRL.

There really isn't any reason for them to know. I've noticed some
people wish they could act furry in public though... as if acting
furry were any different than acting normal... but at any rate, where
do you stand on that?

> 32. Would you become an animal/furry, if you -couldn't- change back?
>
> Without hesitation nor ever looking back.

*whistles* But then, I suppose if you get the form you're looking
for, there wouldn't be any reason to go back. Unless one looks for a
freedom of form as opposed to form itself.

> 33. Describe your ideal physical form.
>
> Presently I'd prefer to be lupine, even if it meant a quick death given
> the ongoing war against wolves.

Don't lose all hope... people's attitudes have been changing and
humans are beginning to see how ineffective they are against exploding
herbivore populations. The wolf might not be out the door yet.

> 34. What kind of furry, non-sexual fantasies do you have?
>
> Reference my 'eagle' experience above ... if you think of it as a
> fantasy, which I'm sure most others would assume it to be.

Of course I think of it as a fantasy. Something wrong with fantasies?

> 36. Has your furriness led you to reconsider your religious beliefs?
>
> My fantasies involving other species of animal was one of the factors
> that drove me from Christianity my mother tried to push on me when I was
> little.

Eheh. It might have been more the "tried to push on me" than the
"other species of animal" that drove you from it. ;)

> 48. What were your very first impressions of alt.lifestyle.furry?
>
> Not really sure if I 'fit in' but thought I'd give it a shot, especially
> when zoophilia was raised and also to advertise my non-anthropomorphic
> furry roleplay MUSH when it was running.

Do tell, please.

> Least - Hmmm, well, I consider myself an outsider here, so most of it I
> have little comment about. However, the bigotry and prejudgementalism
> expressed to me about myself as a zoophile is a bit disheartening,
> though not really surprising.

Don't sweat it; some people simply cannot be convinced to keep an open
mind, and some patterns are so ingrained in our society, it's
dangerous even to suggest supporting people who do not follow those
patterns. I know I won't commit to supporting or denying the
benigness of zoophilia, out of fear of that danger. And for all we
know, they might be right in condemning it. Me saying it's good is
just as senseless as me saying it's bad.

> 50. What would you like to see more/less of in alt.lifestyle.furry?
>
> More intelligent, rational debates
> Less unfounded bigotry and prejudgementalism of others

Usenet is a forum of anonymity. The reason people let themselves
become such monsters is not because they don't realize the people they
are hurting are living breathing people; it's because they know they
can get away with it. I don't know why they like hurting things. On
the other hand, you will find more rational, intelligent debates since
we can carefully prepare our words beforehand, and we don't have to
deal with all the nonverbal social cues in a real life meeting.


Starling

BardCat-kun

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 4:22:23 AM2/5/03
to
Did you even write anything, or just wasting bandwidth?

--
Je me souviens.

BardCat-kun

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 4:22:40 AM2/5/03
to
"Russ" <russell...@btopenworld.com> wrote in news:b1pj3i$r11$1
@raccoon.fur.com:

> <clause class="copout">IMHO, of course.</clause>

I'm sorry but this is not cool anymore.

--
Je me souviens.

BardCat-kun

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 4:26:24 AM2/5/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote in
news:imvu3vgkf4bb43rjb...@4ax.com:

> 16. Describe your ideal plushie.

> One that's not near me. Plushies, to me, are nothing more than dead
> carpet

As opposed to...living carpet?

--
I'd hit it.

Loganberry

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 5:55:37 AM2/5/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote here on 04 Feb 2003:

> 49. What do you like the most/least about alt.lifestyle.furry?
>
> Most - just like exploring to see whether I'm sufficiently 'within
> the fringes' to fit in, though I know I'll never be close to
> 'mainstream' and I don't intend to alter myself to be that way.
>
> Least - Hmmm, well, I consider myself an outsider here, so most of
> it I have little comment about. However, the bigotry and
> prejudgementalism expressed to me about myself as a zoophile is a
> bit disheartening, though not really surprising.

Is there such a thing as "mainstream" in terms of furry, though? And
I would have thought we're all outsiders in some way or another - and
I include *everyone* in that, not just those of us on a.l.f. Although
I didn't contribute to it because I couldn't think of anything
sensible to say and know almost nothing about the subject, I did read
the zoophilia thread with interest, and I think it was probably the
nearest thing to a sensible discussion of the subject I've seen
(which admittedly isn't saying much).

--
Remove all the drivel to reply. "An m'draothai ethile hlal" ("But
first they must catch you") - from the Blessing of El-ahrairah
FurCode: FLR5aw A- C- D H+ M P++ R+ T++ W Z Sm# RLAT a cln++ d e++ f+
h- iwf+++ j* p- sm#

Dave

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 6:33:54 AM2/5/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> shall never vanquished be
until great Birnam wood to high alt.lifestyle.furry. hill shall come
against him.

>>Also, FYI The Theory of evolution says nothing about the Biggest and


>>strongest animals being best or anything like that.
>
>Recently, the deer population in many areas in the U.S., notably
>Wisconsin, had a massive infestation. The Wisconsin government is
>begging deer hunters to exterminate as many deer as they can to stop the
>spread of the disease.
>
>Why did this happen? Its not hard to imagine the extermination of the
>deer's natural predators had a large effect. Natural predators like
>wolves primarily target weak, diseased and enfeebled deer - the very
>deer that human hunters ignore in order to go for the strongest and
>healthiest deer.

Well In that case Weak and deseased and enfeebled deer are the "best"
since they are the ones that survive where their stronger bretheren do
not.
You may apply morality to this if you want, But you cannot derive what
Should be from what is.

>In eliminating species like the wolf, we've pulled out important threads
>and the delicate tapestry that is the ecosystem falls apart.

Hey, I don;t like it, Since that tends to be worse for the human race
as a whole, And people need to take a more communterian veiw, i.e
overideing individual rights where it is nesecery for the betterment
of the race as a whole and destryong ecosystems tends to be bad(TM)

>Actually, humans exterminate /all/ wolves. Wolves used to roam
>throughout the United States but now only a few states have a handful
>left. There was a mass extermination campaign that virtually eliminted
>the wolf from the U.S. between about 1920 and 1950.

But there are some left now right?
Humans have reached the point of almost extinticion before, dureing
the last ice age i belive.
The ones that are left, will be the most suited for survival under the
current circumstances,.

>>Therefore, in that situation, Small Weak wolves are the most likely to
>>survive, so according to the theory of evolution under the current
>>circumstances those small weak wolves are best.
>
>Natural and artificial not congruent terms.

It's perfectly natural for a species to be outcompeted by another one
and become extinct, would you complain if one species of non-human
animals did it to another?
We don't have to do it, that is our difference, We have the
power/potential to impose a superior order upon things, But we rarely
do.

>We are a force against the natural evolutionary process. Things like
>the climactic change are survivable through evolution; natural evolution
>ensures the smartest and best-adapted survive. Humans, however, ensure
>the weakest and sickliest survive in its own and other species.

No, I said that The most suited for survival under the current
circumstances will be the Best ones. This means that for example in a
war, The Strongest and healthiest humans will be the ones who are sent
to fight and die, whereas weak and sickly ones survive since they do
not fight, therefore they are the best.

The theory of evolution states that the best adapted for the
circumstances will survive, it doesn't say or even matter whether it's
within human society or the "natural world".

Your point about the humans "preserveing the weakest", Is a purely
moral judgement you impose.

Ask yerself though, Would you be happy killing babies because they are
"weak" would you kill puppies if they were "weak"?

lets say your dog got ill, would you take her to a vet?
If so, Wouldn't that be just preserveing weakness?
woulnd;t htem ost approtpoaret thing to do with yuor beliefs be to
just wait and see if she survives?

>Actually, the reverse is true ... smaller bodies lose heat faster; this
>is why arctic and subarctic wolves are much larger than wolves from
>warmer climates. Canis Lupus Arctos (Arctic wolf) gets upwards of 150
>lbs; by comparison, the Canis Lupus Arabs (Arabian peninsula wolf)

I stand corrected.

---
To reach some point of order
Utopia in mind, you've got to learn
To sacrifice, to leave what's now behind

Dave

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 6:33:56 AM2/5/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> shall never vanquished be
until great Birnam wood to high alt.lifestyle.furry. hill shall come
against him.

>>>IRL, 26. Birthdate - 10 March 1976
>>
>>Happy Birthday Nanny.
>
>Not for another month yet.

The mirror never lies
(except if it's a trick one)

>>>Ironhoof*wolfhowl.org
>>>(*=@ munging)
>>
>>That's Ebonlupus's Domain name/server/whatever it is isn't it?
>>Has he been makeing you hate people!?!?!?!?!
>
>People have made me hate people.

That and the indoctrination right? ;o)
Is it humans who are vets?

>>You need to learn to love life, just like repilcant Roy.
>
>Would that I had a life to love.

Are you alive?

>>Look at the postive as well as the negative,
>
>Positive? Mine might be over soon ... then I won't have to put up with
>it anymore. :D

wouldn't you be upset at what would happen to your dog?

>>Even the Soviet union (bad as it could be) Had a National Healthcare
>>system, And liveing standards have acutally decreased in russia since
>>it fell.
>
>In addition to anxiety and depression, I have this wonderful disease
>called migraine ... yes, its classified as a disease now. I've had it
>all my life, but didn't have it diagnosed until late 2000. I'm in the
>17th month of a continuous migraine headache and my previous

I've been knocked down by a car before!

>prescription doesn't work on it anymore, and I just ran out of my state
>health care so can't afford any more treatment.

Ah, more proof of the inferority of the US goverment, here healthcare
is free at the point of use, I can get as ill as I want and i'll get
free healthcare, (paid for through taxes of course in the end)
I want private healthcare banned though, and tax increases for the
rich so that Everyone will be equal and the NHS can have more money to
be better.

>>>My RL astrological birth chart, however, has me as equal
>>
>>YOU JUST MADE SNUHWOLF CRY!
>
>Snuhwolf?

§ñühwØLf

>>>No, not unless this includes wildlife artwork clothing (I have several
>>>shirts with wolves, eagles on them).
>>
>>I have ones with the Hammer & Sickle on!
>>It gets dirty looks from germans though.
>>Esp from peope old enough to remember East German Peoples republics
>>thing.
>>
>>>Least - humans
>>
>>That's why your posting here right?
>
>Mostly just 'cuz I'm bored, actually. :D

Nice Dodge.

Dave

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 6:34:01 AM2/5/03
to
"Russ" <russell...@btopenworld.com> shall never vanquished be

until great Birnam wood to high alt.lifestyle.furry. hill shall come
against him.

>Second up is music. I find music that picks me up, and I listen to it as


>much as I can. Lemon jelly, Nickle Creek (the House of Tom Bombadil and the
>Fox's Tail are genius!), Paul Simon's Graceland album, Chicane, the Beatles,
>Badly Drawn Boy... trouble is finding the stuff. :)

The Ramones are Best!

>Umm... why am I writing all this again? I suspect I've meandered off-topic
>some. Sorry. :) Anyways Ironhoof, my advice to you is that you will not
>be able to dislike life and people as much as I guess you do without
>absolutely wrecking yourself... noone can. You appear to have a lot of
>sound thoughts and sound morals going on there, and you owe it to people
>around you to make use of 'em by looking after yourself. Sometimes you
>gotta ignore one bunch of morals to be able to acively work on the stuff
>that's left.

Never be rightwing either.

Russ

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 7:50:41 AM2/5/03
to
"BardCat-kun" <df...@dasda.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93192B7A6F...@206.123.6.7...

> "Russ" <russell...@btopenworld.com> wrote in news:b1pj3i$r11$1
> @raccoon.fur.com:
>
> > <clause class="copout">IMHO, of course.</clause>
>
> I'm sorry but this is not cool anymore.

<care class="not_especially">Why not?</care>

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 12:16:09 PM2/5/03
to
Accidentally hit 'send' instead of cancel when I decided to nix my
public response. As someone described in another thread, I had a
'mental 404.' :D

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 12:29:21 PM2/5/03
to
On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:29:57 -0500, "Mr Cougar" <catof...@direcway.com>
wrote:

>"Ironhoof" <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote:
>
>> 20. What are your phenotype(s)?
>>
>> I have three: A bald eagle, a mountain lion (or cougar or puma if you
>> prefer) and a wolf. Actually have two 'wolves' within me, I feel.
>
>Coolness on the cougar! :)

Mrrrrrrowl. :}


>
>
>> 21. How/when did you discover the identity/species of your phenotype?
>
>
>> Cougar - Nothing as striking or vivid for me as my eagle 'fursona'
>> above, but the cougar I feel is the part of myself I've rarely explore
>> ... its my violent side. I'm pacifist to a fault and aside from
>> roleplay, I don't really give this side of me much of an outlet as only
>> extremely, extremely rarely have I had any violent thoughts IRL.
>
>Don't keep a bigcat trapped within! ;)

Be careful what you suggest I don't do. ;}

Ironhoof

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 12:32:31 PM2/5/03
to
On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:54:08 -0000, "Russ"
<russell...@btopenworld.com> wrote:

>"Ironhoof" <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote in message
>news:imvu3vgkf4bb43rjb...@4ax.com...
>--->8 Snip long list of folks 8<---
>
>Umm.. okay, now I know when in Rome and all... but that's a LOT of soup!
>*rummages through cupboards* A tin of French onion and some carrots...
>nope. I've got some parsnips, pasta, pitta-bread, pizza, polenta, potatoes,
>and lotsa soya stuff...

I like soup. :)

-- Ironsouplovinhoof

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 12:31:53 PM2/5/03
to
On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:45:19 -0500, "Skytech" <sky...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

>> Urrf, should I really fill this out...? What can it hurt, I guess.
>>
>> Furvey 3.5
>>
>> ==========
>>
>
>Depends on how much pepper you put in your soup. Speaking of such,
>have a hot
>and mandatoraly fresh cup of soup and, of course, welcome to the
>Wonderful (virtual)World of Homestead!

Home, home on the deranged... (j/k)


>
>Hm, furvey... Must read.
>
>>
>> 1. What is your name?
>>
>> You mean I need to settle on one? :)
>>
>
>Makes your sig a lot shorter.

=======================================================================
Alyph/Bolt/Chibibabos/&@*(#$&(*((<...

?SIGFILE OVERFLOW ERROR
?CRITICAL SYSTEM STOP
?REALITY WILL NOW REBOOT

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 12:34:10 PM2/5/03
to

>
>Wow, schitzophrenic much? Well, whoever you are welcome and *huggs*. I'll just
>call you Ironhoof if you don't mind too much. And you can call me..
>
>-Dexter, you know, the fox

One of these days I'll fill in what few letters of the alphabet I'm
missing ... :) Actually that's why named Alyph the way I did, I didn't
have an 'A' character, heh.

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 12:39:31 PM2/5/03
to
On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:01:29 -0800, "Warren Forest"
<warren...@coldmail.com> wrote:

>"Ironhoof" <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote in message
>news:imvu3vgkf4bb43rjb...@4ax.com...
>> 49. What do you like the most/least about alt.lifestyle.furry?
>>
>> Most - just like exploring to see whether I'm sufficiently 'within the
>> fringes' to fit in, though I know I'll never be close to 'mainstream'
>> and I don't intend to alter myself to be that way.
>
>Heh... ALF is off the beaten path of the path that's off the beaten path, so
>don't worry too much. ;-)

I usually draw a map for folk on where I am:

. <-- Normal people . <-- Gay Me*-->

*1.8 quadrillion light years this direction

To put it with 'furries,' it condenses somewhat:

. <-- Normal people .<-- Gay Furry -->. Me*-->
*3,101,976 light years this direction

>
>
>> Least - Hmmm, well, I consider myself an outsider here, so most of it I
>> have little comment about. However, the bigotry and prejudgementalism
>> expressed to me about myself as a zoophile is a bit disheartening,
>> though not really surprising.
>
>Actually, the debate wasn't as bad as sometimes. Usually when the subject
>is raised there's one or two die hard zoo haters that jump in and insult
>like crazy. I wouldn't care, normally, but they end up distracting away
>others from the debate, and so the opportunity to talk about it
>intelligently is lost. I think I honestly learned more about the subject in
>this debate than in all the other times it's been discussed.

I've been through worse too, but when I keep getting the crap of folk
presuming to know the nature of my relationship when they've never met
either myself or my mate -- the 'debate' isn't going to go anywhere.

I like it when people actually /ask questions/ when they don't know ...
that shows some intelligence. Bashing someone based on one's own
presumptions ... its 'normal' and because its 'normal' they think it
makes them right or acceptable -- but it does neither.

Ironhoof

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 12:32:59 PM2/5/03
to

>*boggles*
>Wow...you're worse than that Sybil chick...as the official therapist of
>ALF, I have diagnosed you with MPD (multiple personality disorder).
>Report to the clinic for treatment immediately.
>
>~Prince Snuhwolf~ MD, PhD, DDT, LSD
>:O)

And that ain't even all of 'em. :)

Ironhoof

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 12:43:34 PM2/5/03
to
On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 06:11:43 GMT, Rabbitswift <Rabbi...@Hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Welcome, Ironhoof. Or is it welcome back? I just assumed you were a
>returning poster or something so maybe I missed an intro? If so, my
>apologies.
> Anyway, nice to meet ya.
>
>> 1. What is your name?
>>
>> You mean I need to settle on one? :)
>>
> *Names snipped but read.* Wow. And you can keep all that straight, can
>you? Do you have one you prefer? I have enough trouble remembering
>names as it is.

Not all of them are active. They are all distinct characters ... and a
couple of names (like 'Zetan') are actually used for several completely
different charactrs.


>
>> 7. What do you do for a living?
>>
>> Currently unemployed. Past occupations have included computer
>technical
>> support, webmaster, technical writer (aerospace)
>>
> I'm impressed. I'll be 24 in a few days and the best I've managed is
>mailroom clerk.

Don't be. If you have stable employment, even minimum wage, you are
doing better than I. :/


>
>> 19. Describe your favourite/ideal 'furry' appearance.
>>
>> Not applicable to me. Maybe I'm not really 'furry'? Dunno.
>>
> Eh, I sorta see the term "furry" as only a blanket term for a group of
>people with shared beliefs, interests, etc. I only consider myself a "fur"
>insofar as furs are people who, like me, feel some sort of connection to
>animals. So really the definition is, as far as I'm concerned, up to each
>individual.

I went to a couple furry cons ... didn't really like it. 90% of the
stuff most furries I know like, doesn't appeal to me. Fursuiting? Nope.
Plushies? Nope. Frivolous sex with each other? Nope. Going out and
meeting people IRL? Not anymore. Frivolous, non-IC tinysex? Nope.


>
>> 34. What kind of furry, non-sexual fantasies do you have?
>>
>> Reference my 'eagle' experience above ... if you think of it as a
>> fantasy, which I'm sure most others would assume it to be.
>>
> But just because something is a dream or a fantasy doesn't mean it isn't
>valid. At least as far as I'm concerned. I don't typically look for meaning in
>my dreams but I think that if someone feels a particular dream or fantasy
>has a meaning then perhaps it does.

The thing is I'm not so sure it was a dream or a fantasy ... at least
part of me truly believes it was an actual memory of a past life.


>
>> 49. What do you like the most/least about alt.lifestyle.furry?
>>
>> Most - just like exploring to see whether I'm sufficiently 'within the
>> fringes' to fit in, though I know I'll never be close to 'mainstream'
>> and I don't intend to alter myself to be that way.
>>
>> Least - Hmmm, well, I consider myself an outsider here, so most of it I
>> have little comment about. However, the bigotry and prejudgementalism
>> expressed to me about myself as a zoophile is a bit disheartening,
>> though not really surprising.
>>
> I am sorry that you've been made to feel uncomfortable here. It's
>unfortunate that the opinions of a few have reflected negatively on the
>whole group. For myself I strive to understand something as well as I can
>before passing any sort of judgement. I hope things improve for you.
> --Rabbit the Skunk

People will be people wherever I go. I don't even get along with most
'zoos.'

-- Ironhoof

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 12:54:10 PM2/5/03
to
On 05 Feb 2003 00:47:06 -0800, Starling <nos...@hooey.invalid> wrote:

>Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> writes:
>
>> Urrf, should I really fill this out...? What can it hurt, I guess.
>
>No, nobody ever fills out a furvey here. What were you thinking??
>Just kidding. ^.^
>
><names snipped>
>
>Wow... 25? I only have 17. o.o On MUCKs, that is.

There are actually several more.


>
>> 10. Are you a meat eater?
>>
>> Yes, but I boycott beef, mutton, wool and leather due to the cattle
>> industry's war to exterminate wolves.
>
>Wolves? I'd boycott cattle for its war to exterminate trees, but I
>don't know about wolves.

That's another reason. I still buy things like turkey, though.


>
>> 13. What type of furry literature do you enjoy reading?
>>
>> Again, non-anthropomorphic
>
>Refresh my memory. By non-anthropomorphic do you mean quadrupedal?

For species that are 'naturally' so, yes. I have some affinity for
avians which are natural bipeds ... but I don't care to read about
avians with human arms, hands, genitalia or any other human pats.

>
>> 16. Describe your ideal plushie.
>>
>> One that's not near me. Plushies, to me, are nothing more than dead
>> carpet;
>
>But they're soft... and cuddly. Nothing wrong with dead cloth.

No soul or spirit to them ... there's nothing wrong with it, no, but the
valuelessness and emptiness holds no appeal for me.


>
>> I have no interest in them in a sexual sense.
>
>Now that I can agree with. :)
>
>> 19. Describe your favourite/ideal 'furry' appearance.
>>
>> Not applicable to me. Maybe I'm not really 'furry'? Dunno.
>
>*shrugs* I've seen a few humans around here. It's not like everyone
> has to feel like something else. Ultimately it all comes down to
> what you want to talk about. We talk about furry here. ^.^
>
>> 22. What conditions help you to enjoy/express your furriness?
>>
>> Basically just roleplaying or storywriting.
>
>It's all a story really, a great big wonderful story. Though it may
>end, we have nothing better we can do than living for the story. Or
>stories as such the case may be. There's only one real story, but
>frankly I've found the imaginary ones to be much more important. You?
>

My real story would scare the pejeebers out of Jerry Springer.

>> 29. Do you act furry in public?
>>
>> No, I do my best to hide that which is different about me from the
>> general public IRL.
>
>There really isn't any reason for them to know. I've noticed some
>people wish they could act furry in public though... as if acting
>furry were any different than acting normal... but at any rate, where
>do you stand on that?

'Flaming furries' and 'flaming gays' I don't agree with. If you are
only furry, gay, or whatever just to shock others ... then you really
aren't furry or gay, you just want to hurt others in my eyes.


>
>> 32. Would you become an animal/furry, if you -couldn't- change back?
>>
>> Without hesitation nor ever looking back.
>
>*whistles* But then, I suppose if you get the form you're looking
>for, there wouldn't be any reason to go back. Unless one looks for a
>freedom of form as opposed to form itself.

I'd rather be wolf and stuck as a wolf for a short life than live a
hundred years as a human.


>
>> 33. Describe your ideal physical form.
>>
>> Presently I'd prefer to be lupine, even if it meant a quick death given
>> the ongoing war against wolves.
>
>Don't lose all hope... people's attitudes have been changing and
>humans are beginning to see how ineffective they are against exploding
>herbivore populations. The wolf might not be out the door yet.

Almost half the subspecies of Grey Wolf are extinct in North America ...
permanently. Most of the remainder are on the verge of extinction.


>
>> 34. What kind of furry, non-sexual fantasies do you have?
>>
>> Reference my 'eagle' experience above ... if you think of it as a
>> fantasy, which I'm sure most others would assume it to be.
>
>Of course I think of it as a fantasy. Something wrong with fantasies?

The line there between fantasy and reality is blurred to me, and on
occaision when it comes into focus, I feel its on the reality side.


>
>> 36. Has your furriness led you to reconsider your religious beliefs?
>>
>> My fantasies involving other species of animal was one of the factors
>> that drove me from Christianity my mother tried to push on me when I was
>> little.
>
>Eheh. It might have been more the "tried to push on me" than the
>"other species of animal" that drove you from it. ;)

As I said, it was one of the factors.


>
>> 48. What were your very first impressions of alt.lifestyle.furry?
>>
>> Not really sure if I 'fit in' but thought I'd give it a shot, especially
>> when zoophilia was raised and also to advertise my non-anthropomorphic
>> furry roleplay MUSH when it was running.
>
>Do tell, please.

Its no longer running, unfortunately, though I have all the room
descriptions recorded. It was North American based ... so basically any
species present in the wild in North America in the mid-nineteenth
century. Mostly horses and wolves, but we had a variety of folk there
playing prairie dogs, geese, foxes, coyotes, etc.


>
>> Least - Hmmm, well, I consider myself an outsider here, so most of it I
>> have little comment about. However, the bigotry and prejudgementalism
>> expressed to me about myself as a zoophile is a bit disheartening,
>> though not really surprising.
>
>Don't sweat it; some people simply cannot be convinced to keep an open
>mind, and some patterns are so ingrained in our society, it's
>dangerous even to suggest supporting people who do not follow those
>patterns. I know I won't commit to supporting or denying the
>benigness of zoophilia, out of fear of that danger. And for all we
>know, they might be right in condemning it. Me saying it's good is
>just as senseless as me saying it's bad.

The folk who don't think zoo is good staying out of the discussion
because they don't feel they have a right to impose upon another, I
feel, are a lot better than the ones determined to endlessly persue
their blind, ignorant rhetoric and zealotry.


>
>> 50. What would you like to see more/less of in alt.lifestyle.furry?
>>
>> More intelligent, rational debates
>> Less unfounded bigotry and prejudgementalism of others
>
>Usenet is a forum of anonymity. The reason people let themselves
>become such monsters is not because they don't realize the people they
>are hurting are living breathing people; it's because they know they
>can get away with it. I don't know why they like hurting things. On
>the other hand, you will find more rational, intelligent debates since
>we can carefully prepare our words beforehand, and we don't have to
>deal with all the nonverbal social cues in a real life meeting.
>

I'm no good at RL debates. I actually failed public speaking three
times in a row in college. :/ Compare that with my business english,
for which I received a state award for an FBLA competition back in
highschool. I had a number of teachers accuse me of plagiarizing
encyclopedias when I turned in reports because my writing skill was in
great excess of my verbal skills.

Writing is a far more 'natural' means of expression for me than
speaking. I'd consider it a blessing if I suddenly became mute...

Ironhoof

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 12:54:57 PM2/5/03
to
On 5 Feb 2003 10:55:37 GMT, Loganberry <dav...@yahoo.co.ukdrivel>
wrote:

>Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote here on 04 Feb 2003:
>
>> 49. What do you like the most/least about alt.lifestyle.furry?
>>
>> Most - just like exploring to see whether I'm sufficiently 'within
>> the fringes' to fit in, though I know I'll never be close to
>> 'mainstream' and I don't intend to alter myself to be that way.
>>
>> Least - Hmmm, well, I consider myself an outsider here, so most of
>> it I have little comment about. However, the bigotry and
>> prejudgementalism expressed to me about myself as a zoophile is a
>> bit disheartening, though not really surprising.
>
>Is there such a thing as "mainstream" in terms of furry, though? And
>I would have thought we're all outsiders in some way or another - and
>I include *everyone* in that, not just those of us on a.l.f. Although
>I didn't contribute to it because I couldn't think of anything
>sensible to say and know almost nothing about the subject, I did read
>the zoophilia thread with interest, and I think it was probably the
>nearest thing to a sensible discussion of the subject I've seen
>(which admittedly isn't saying much).

From the furries I've met IRL, they have a lot of common traits I lack.

Ironhoof

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 1:16:22 PM2/5/03
to
On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 11:33:56 GMT, dsa...@yahoo.co.uk (Dave) wrote:

>Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> shall never vanquished be
>until great Birnam wood to high alt.lifestyle.furry. hill shall come
>against him.
>
>>>>IRL, 26. Birthdate - 10 March 1976
>>>
>>>Happy Birthday Nanny.
>>
>>Not for another month yet.
>
>The mirror never lies
>(except if it's a trick one)
>
>>>>Ironhoof*wolfhowl.org
>>>>(*=@ munging)
>>>
>>>That's Ebonlupus's Domain name/server/whatever it is isn't it?
>>>Has he been makeing you hate people!?!?!?!?!
>>
>>People have made me hate people.
>
>That and the indoctrination right? ;o)
>Is it humans who are vets?

All sorts of people ... from Dubya and Ted Nugent to Randall Pepe, to
ministers to a lot of people calling themselves 'zoo.' Across the
board, people suck ... and not in a good way.


>
>>>You need to learn to love life, just like repilcant Roy.
>>
>>Would that I had a life to love.
>
>Are you alive?

I was laid off last April, worked one month on a farm in September but
couldn't handle the stress of 17 hour days 7 days/week -- stupid, I
know. Now I'm at the verge of homelessness, at the very least the
utilities will be shut off in 2 weeks if I don't get my tax refund in
time (Uncle Sam owes me $264, the state I owe $2).


>
>>>Look at the postive as well as the negative,
>>
>>Positive? Mine might be over soon ... then I won't have to put up with
>>it anymore. :D
>
>wouldn't you be upset at what would happen to your dog?

Very long story I don't care to go into detail about publicly ...
suffice it to say because I haven't been able to keep a steady job at
all the past 6 years, Covy's life was endangered and there was a lot of
suffering. I love and need her dearly, but I reached the point where I
realized keeping her with me might harm her unless I got a steady job.
I found one individual whom she liked and trusted, a very honorable
person I respect far more than I respect myself and he's been looking
after her. Its been nearly two years since I last saw her and that will
be the end of our agreement ... by the end of March, if I don't have a
job, he gets permanent custody.

Its in her best interests, but it will take all meaning out of my life.
My one driving force has been reunion, its been the only thing to keep
me going. If I don't make it ... nothing matters.


>
>>>Even the Soviet union (bad as it could be) Had a National Healthcare
>>>system, And liveing standards have acutally decreased in russia since
>>>it fell.
>>
>>In addition to anxiety and depression, I have this wonderful disease
>>called migraine ... yes, its classified as a disease now. I've had it
>>all my life, but didn't have it diagnosed until late 2000. I'm in the
>>17th month of a continuous migraine headache and my previous
>
>I've been knocked down by a car before!

What a coincidence, I have a roommate who ran someone down with his car
before.


>
>>prescription doesn't work on it anymore, and I just ran out of my state
>>health care so can't afford any more treatment.
>
>Ah, more proof of the inferority of the US goverment, here healthcare
>is free at the point of use, I can get as ill as I want and i'll get
>free healthcare, (paid for through taxes of course in the end)
>I want private healthcare banned though, and tax increases for the
>rich so that Everyone will be equal and the NHS can have more money to
>be better.

No joke. :/

The U.S. is the land of the fee, home of the slave.

Bush berates North Korea for not taking care of its citizens ... Bush
doesn't take care of American citizens! The state health care plan has
just had the rug pulled out from under it here and my roommate, who is
completely disabled, now has to come up with an extra $100 or so every
month to pay for doctor visits and prescriptions -- he is at the verge
of going on dialysis and he's already on a waiting list because he needs
new kidneys. He gets $500 or so per month from SSI ... that is not
enough to cover rent, phone and electricity; there is no room to add an
extra expense when he needs very frequent and regular medical care.

>
>>>>My RL astrological birth chart, however, has me as equal
>>>
>>>YOU JUST MADE SNUHWOLF CRY!
>>
>>Snuhwolf?
>
>§ñühwØLf
>
>>>>No, not unless this includes wildlife artwork clothing (I have several
>>>>shirts with wolves, eagles on them).
>>>
>>>I have ones with the Hammer & Sickle on!
>>>It gets dirty looks from germans though.
>>>Esp from peope old enough to remember East German Peoples republics
>>>thing.
>>>
>>>>Least - humans
>>>
>>>That's why your posting here right?
>>
>>Mostly just 'cuz I'm bored, actually. :D
>
>Nice Dodge.

Would rather drive a Honda. :D

-- Ironhoof

Elizabeth A. Johnson

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 2:25:33 PM2/5/03
to

BardCat-kun wrote:

the room fo living carpet... that grows tentacles and grabs you... and
forces you to have kinky carpet sex... rubbing you vigorously against it
and giving you rug burns...

Avenging_Lioness
--
"I'm wet... I'm naked... your sister is wearing my clothes... and this is
all part of some evil plot TO RULE THE WORLD AS A SOGGY CHIMP IN HIS
BIRTHDAY SUIT?!?!?!?"


cat

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 4:46:08 PM2/5/03
to
On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 11:25:33 -0800, "Elizabeth A. Johnson"
<lizo...@worldnet.att.net> miaoued:


>the room fo living carpet... that grows tentacles and grabs you... and
>forces you to have kinky carpet sex... rubbing you vigorously against it
>and giving you rug burns...

ACK! She's been at the Hentai...again.

cat

cat

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 4:54:08 PM2/5/03
to
On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:16:22 -0800, Ironhoof
<iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> miaoued:


>just had the rug pulled out from under it here and my roommate, who is
>completely disabled, now has to come up with an extra $100 or so every
>month to pay for doctor visits and prescriptions -- he is at the verge
>of going on dialysis and he's already on a waiting list because he needs
>new kidneys. He gets $500 or so per month from SSI ... that is not
>enough to cover rent, phone and electricity; there is no room to add an
>extra expense when he needs very frequent and regular medical care.

Then he should go to HUD, apply for section 8 housing (being
disabled will get him moved to the head of the list for approval) Then
housing costs will become more handleable. Then he needs to contact
the Kidney association to find some assistance for the medical bills.
It can be handled but it is not easy. You have to research and jump
through all the usual bureaucratic hoops.


cat

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 5:38:48 PM2/5/03
to

It took 3 years just to get on SSI. They refused to put him on SSD, but
they wouldn't say why ... he had 3 different doctors confirm he is fully
disabled. He may be able to get in Medicare shortly which should take
care of the medical bills, whenever that red tape goes through.

He moved out of Section 8 housing because their changing requirements
wouldn't let him keep his canine mate.

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 5:47:48 PM2/5/03
to
On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 11:33:54 GMT, dsa...@yahoo.co.uk (Dave) wrote:

>Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> shall never vanquished be
>until great Birnam wood to high alt.lifestyle.furry. hill shall come
>against him.
>
>>>Also, FYI The Theory of evolution says nothing about the Biggest and
>>>strongest animals being best or anything like that.
>>
>>Recently, the deer population in many areas in the U.S., notably
>>Wisconsin, had a massive infestation. The Wisconsin government is
>>begging deer hunters to exterminate as many deer as they can to stop the
>>spread of the disease.
>>
>>Why did this happen? Its not hard to imagine the extermination of the
>>deer's natural predators had a large effect. Natural predators like
>>wolves primarily target weak, diseased and enfeebled deer - the very
>>deer that human hunters ignore in order to go for the strongest and
>>healthiest deer.
>
>Well In that case Weak and deseased and enfeebled deer are the "best"
>since they are the ones that survive where their stronger bretheren do
>not.
>You may apply morality to this if you want, But you cannot derive what
>Should be from what is.

Actually its the disease that is the 'best.' The deer are dying and
won't survive long ... its likely there will be no deer hunting at all
in areas of the United States because what few deer will remain will not
be a viable population.


>
>>In eliminating species like the wolf, we've pulled out important threads
>>and the delicate tapestry that is the ecosystem falls apart.
>
>Hey, I don;t like it, Since that tends to be worse for the human race
>as a whole, And people need to take a more communterian veiw, i.e
>overideing individual rights where it is nesecery for the betterment
>of the race as a whole and destryong ecosystems tends to be bad(TM)

Most people swallow what Dubya and Bill Gates and the rich companies
tell them what to swallow. So long as that's true, so long as they
refuse to think for themselves instead of blindly following the
'shepherds' leading them off a cliff, there's little hope.


>
>>Actually, humans exterminate /all/ wolves. Wolves used to roam
>>throughout the United States but now only a few states have a handful
>>left. There was a mass extermination campaign that virtually eliminted
>>the wolf from the U.S. between about 1920 and 1950.
>
>But there are some left now right?

Very few. We've completely lost the following subspecies of grey wolf
in north America:

Alces
Beothucus
Bernardi
Columbianus
Fuscus
Griseoalbus
Mogollonensis
Monstrabilus
Nubilus
Youngi

They are all /completely extinct/, most of them exterminated in the
early-to-mid twentieth century in the U.S.

We are very close to losing others, like the Baileyi (Mexican grey
wolf).

I will reply to the rest later tonight, must get going on my jobhunting
...

Ironhoof

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 6:20:17 PM2/5/03
to

>Humans have reached the point of almost extinticion before, dureing
>the last ice age i belive.
>The ones that are left, will be the most suited for survival under the
>current circumstances,.

The deer that survived the hunters' guns are now falling to the disease
because we made them too weak.

Reminds me of an old Innuit legend:

===

In the beginning there was a Woman and a Man, and nothing else walked or
swam or flew in th world until one day the Woman dug a great hole in the
ground and began fishing in it. One by one she pulled out all the
animals, and the last one she pulled out of the hole was the caribou.
Then Kaila, who is the God of the Sky, told the woman the caribou was
the greatest gift of all, for the caribou would be the sustenance of
man.

The Woman set the cirbou free and ordered it to go out over the land and
multiply, and the caribou did as the Woman said; and time the land was
filled with caribou, so the sons of th Woman hunted well, and they were
fed and clothed and had good skin tents to live in, all from the
caribou.

The sons of the Woman hunted only the big, fat caribou, for they had no
wish to kill the weak and the small and the sick, since these were no
good to eat nor were their skins much good. And, after a time, it
happened that the sick and the weak came to outnumber the fat and the
strong, and when the sons saw this they were dismayed and they
complained to the Woman.

Then the Woman made magic and spoke to Kaila and said: 'Your work is no
good, for the caribou grow weak and sick, and if we eat them we must
grow weak and sick also.'

Kaila heard, and he said 'My work is good. I shall tell Amorak (the
spirit of the Wolf), and he shall tell his children, and they will eat
the sick and the weak and the small caribou, so that the land will be
left for the fat and good ones.'

And this is what happened, and this is why are one; for the caribou
feeds the wolf, but it is the wolf who keeps the caribou strong.

-- Farley Mowat, "Never Cry Wolf"
paraphrasing Ootek's tale of an Innuit legend
===


>
>>>Therefore, in that situation, Small Weak wolves are the most likely to
>>>survive, so according to the theory of evolution under the current
>>>circumstances those small weak wolves are best.
>>
>>Natural and artificial not congruent terms.
>
>It's perfectly natural for a species to be outcompeted by another one
>and become extinct, would you complain if one species of non-human
>animals did it to another?

Anything humans do is artificial. We've removed ourselves out of the
natural order. Just ask most people their idea of the 'real world' and
see if anyone quotes anything that isn't contained around our
'civilization.'

>We don't have to do it, that is our difference, We have the
>power/potential to impose a superior order upon things, But we rarely
>do.

We /constantly/ do. Every day more forest is destroyed, less and less
wild habitat remain, more river, lake, ocean, ground and air polluted.


>
>>We are a force against the natural evolutionary process. Things like
>>the climactic change are survivable through evolution; natural evolution
>>ensures the smartest and best-adapted survive. Humans, however, ensure
>>the weakest and sickliest survive in its own and other species.
>
>No, I said that The most suited for survival under the current
>circumstances will be the Best ones. This means that for example in a
>war, The Strongest and healthiest humans will be the ones who are sent
>to fight and die, whereas weak and sickly ones survive since they do
>not fight, therefore they are the best.

Or the slyest draft dodgers. :D


>
>The theory of evolution states that the best adapted for the
>circumstances will survive, it doesn't say or even matter whether it's
>within human society or the "natural world".

'Social Darwinism' is a farce. Darwin's theory was only intended for
natural evolutionary systems.


>
>Your point about the humans "preserveing the weakest", Is a purely
>moral judgement you impose.

Its a basic truth.


>
>Ask yerself though, Would you be happy killing babies because they are
>"weak" would you kill puppies if they were "weak"?

I'm more for spaying and neutering human babies than I am for spaying
and neutering other species. I'm pro-ZPG.


>
>lets say your dog got ill, would you take her to a vet?
>If so, Wouldn't that be just preserveing weakness?
>woulnd;t htem ost approtpoaret thing to do with yuor beliefs be to
>just wait and see if she survives?

Cat got your keyboard? :)

-- Ironhoof

Loganberry

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 8:14:28 PM2/5/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote here on 05 Feb 2003:

> From the furries I've met IRL, they have a lot of common traits I
> lack.
>
> Ironhoof

Well, I've not got the experience as of yet to make any high-flown
pronouncements about such things, but I shall follow long-established
Usenet custom and do so anyway...

I seem to be in several furry minorities myself, although none of
them are particularly thrilling: one, I'm heterosexual and - at the
moment, though who can tell what might happen in the future? - intend
to remain so; two, furriness has zero spiritual element for me;
three, I have far less desire to be a six-foot-tall anthro than a
real rabbit[1]; four, I don't particularly like anime in any form;
five, while I admire furry art it's much less of an interest than
furry literature; and six, at 27 I feel like an old codger what with
all these students around the place. (Actually, the paucity of older
furs is an interesting topic in itself.)

[1] To clarify this: although my ideal would be to be "more-or-less
zoomorphic" with language, thumbs, etc (hence the 5 in my Fur Code),
if it should transpire that reincarnation believes in *me*, and if I
had the choice of 100% non-furry human, the conventional "six-foot-
tall anthro rabbit" or 100% non-human rabbit, I'd go with the last,
with all that that implies.

cat

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 8:30:41 PM2/5/03
to
On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 14:38:48 -0800, Ironhoof
<iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> miaoued:

>It took 3 years just to get on SSI.

That's actually a bit quicker than the usual time for SSI
acceptance.

>They refused to put him on SSD, but
>they wouldn't say why ... he had 3 different doctors confirm he is fully
>disabled. He may be able to get in Medicare shortly which should take
>care of the medical bills, whenever that red tape goes through.
>
>He moved out of Section 8 housing because their changing requirements
>wouldn't let him keep his canine mate.

Bet he didn't know if he had the dog for at least a year in
any Federally funded housing without them complaining, they could NOT
have evicted him nor required he give up the dog. There are 5 Federal
Court decisions (and 3 from Federal Appellate courts upholding them.
the Supreme Court refused to sit on it, so the other decisions now
have the force of law) If he was forced out by eviction, the landlord
can be actioned. If he looked he will be able to find section 8
housing which will permit a dog. It may not be in the best
neighborhood, but he will be able to find it (at least if you are in
any moderately sized area)

cat

§ñühwØLf

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 8:33:30 PM2/5/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org>
wrote<uli24voe7tev84aul...@4ax.com>:

>
>>*boggles*
>>Wow...you're worse than that Sybil chick...as the official therapist
of
>>ALF, I have diagnosed you with MPD (multiple personality disorder).
>>Report to the clinic for treatment immediately.
>>
>

>And that ain't even all of 'em. :)
>
>Ironhoof
>

Well......if that is the case then the best advice I can give you is
to become a writer of fiction (sci-fi, fantasy,whatever) and let those
people out for some fresh air!!!! You're probably very creative.
HTH

~Prince Snuhwolf~ MD, PhD, DDT, STP!

§ñühwØLf

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Feb 5, 2003, 8:33:32 PM2/5/03
to
BardCat-kun <df...@dasda.com>
wrote<Xns93192B6DDB...@206.123.6.7>:

>Did you even write anything, or just wasting bandwidth?
>

Watch out d00d! he's a top poster also!

~Prince SnUHwolf~

§ñühwØLf

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Feb 5, 2003, 8:33:34 PM2/5/03
to
BardCat-kun <df...@dasda.com>
wrote<Xns93192C1BD6...@206.123.6.7>:

>Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote in
>news:imvu3vgkf4bb43rjb...@4ax.com:
>
>> 16. Describe your ideal plushie.
>
>> One that's not near me. Plushies, to me, are nothing more than dead
>> carpet
>
>As opposed to...living carpet?
>

Ive cleaned a few that could classify as a life form :O(

~Prince Snuhwolf~

§ñühwØLf

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Feb 5, 2003, 8:33:36 PM2/5/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org>
wrote<luj24v8288330pf5r...@4ax.com>:

>
>From the furries I've met IRL, they have a lot of common traits I
lack.
>
>Ironhoof
>

I think we have our new "Rennegadde Fox" with you...but what the hey;
I'll bite.
So what traits do you see furries having in common?
What traits do you lack?

~Prince Snuhwolf~

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 8:38:29 PM2/5/03
to

Sized, yes, populated, no. This county is the size of Delaware but the
entire county's population is 65,000 ... the city near where we live,
the largest in the county, is population 20,000. Rural farming area.

Ironhoof

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Feb 5, 2003, 8:41:07 PM2/5/03
to

Pssst, already am. :) Sort of. I've got /two/ series of short stories
started about the Ironhoof character. (Well, one series with 3 episodes
posted and a fourth in the works and the first episode of a second
series underway)

groups.yahoo.com/group/ironhoof if you are interested - files section.

Ironhoof

BardCat-kun

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 8:50:28 PM2/5/03
to
§ñühwØLf <SnuH...@netscape.net> wrote in news:b1se1c$16fes0$10@ID-
137945.news.dfncis.de:

> Watch out d00d! he's a top poster also!

We must warn everyone before the clique accepts him!

--
I'd hit it.

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 9:00:14 PM2/5/03
to

All I've met love anthropomorphic art and/or stories (I don't have much
taste for either; I strongly prefer non-anthropomorphic)
All I've met are into fursuiting, plushies or both (I'm not into either)
All I've met are big on going to "cons" (I've been to a couple to see
what they were like, have no plans to ever go to another) and are
generally pretty social (I definitely am not)
Most are bi and into frivolous sex orgies, often with strangers (nothing
really wrong with this, just not to my taste)
Many find an 'inner fox' and/or 'inner rabbit' ... I have neither

Just a few things off the top of my head...

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 9:06:24 PM2/5/03
to
On 6 Feb 2003 01:14:28 GMT, Loganberry <dav...@yahoo.co.ukdrivel>
wrote:

>Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote here on 05 Feb 2003:
>
>> From the furries I've met IRL, they have a lot of common traits I
>> lack.
>>
>> Ironhoof
>
>Well, I've not got the experience as of yet to make any high-flown
>pronouncements about such things, but I shall follow long-established
>Usenet custom and do so anyway...
>
>I seem to be in several furry minorities myself, although none of
>them are particularly thrilling: one, I'm heterosexual and - at the
>moment, though who can tell what might happen in the future? - intend
>to remain so; two, furriness has zero spiritual element for me;
>three, I have far less desire to be a six-foot-tall anthro than a
>real rabbit[1]; four, I don't particularly like anime in any form;
>five, while I admire furry art it's much less of an interest than
>furry literature; and six, at 27 I feel like an old codger what with
>all these students around the place. (Actually, the paucity of older
>furs is an interesting topic in itself.)

I feel the same way and I'm a couple months shy of 27. Some days I feel
more like 126 than 26.

I generally don't care for anime, though there is /some/ I find
interesting. You might give 'Princess Mononoke' a try, though ... I
absolutely loved it and its definitely not typical anime fare ... I
think in some parts the quality of the artwork exceeds the original Lion
King. The music is amazing, as is the voice acting on the English
dubbing and I love the storyline and the characters.


>
>[1] To clarify this: although my ideal would be to be "more-or-less
>zoomorphic" with language, thumbs, etc (hence the 5 in my Fur Code),
>if it should transpire that reincarnation believes in *me*, and if I
>had the choice of 100% non-furry human, the conventional "six-foot-
>tall anthro rabbit" or 100% non-human rabbit, I'd go with the last,
>with all that that implies.

Rabbits don't hold much appeal for me at all ... then again, that's
probably because all of my 'inner creatures' are predatory, lol ...
eagle, cougar, wolf.

Rabbits be food. :)

-- Ironhoof

Elizabeth A. Johnson

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Feb 5, 2003, 9:41:33 PM2/5/03
to

Ironhoof wrote:

>
> It took 3 years just to get on SSI. They refused to put him on SSD, but
> they wouldn't say why ... he had 3 different doctors confirm he is fully
> disabled. He may be able to get in Medicare shortly which should take
> care of the medical bills, whenever that red tape goes through.

not sure if SSI is better than SSD or not. I first started out with both,
but they increased the amount I was getting for SSD and kicked me off SSI.
with SSI I was automatically eligible for State medical coverage. well,
technically. and I should still have it since I am below the poverty level.
but it's been a pain in the ass trying to get everything sorted out. they
kicked me off everything about a year and a half ago and I had to fight to
get back on. I hope all the paperwork is finally sorted out. I desperately
need to see a doctor. So, even if he gets SSD that isn't insurance he won't
get kicked off. I'm permanently disabled, but they hold inquiries every 3
years just to make sure I'm still disabled. Last time the medical
documentation failed to get to where it needed to go and nobody notified me
until it was too late. what a mess.

If they won't put him on SSD then he should be allowed to know why. There
are lawyers out there that can help also. Or he can go about it himself by
asking for an appeal. Write a letter stating you want a hearing and go in
and appeal to their court. It isn't fun, but if he wants SSD then he's going
to have to just go for it.

> He moved out of Section 8 housing because their changing requirements
> wouldn't let him keep his canine mate.

well, that wasn't smart at all. I can barely keep afloat WITH the Section 8
Assistance. If someone said I absolutely had to give up my kitties I'd find
someone to keep them for me until I could be reunited. It won't happen
though because I have a piece of paper from my therapist saying I need all
three of my little ones so no one will be able to separate us. Even if the
apartments don't accept pets I am allowed to have them.

I don't see why Section 8 would change their policy. Plus don't they have to
allow you to keep them if your first contract stated you could? I know here
they discourage pet ownership, but if the apartments allow it then they don't
mind. The only thing they want is for you to be a considerate tenant and not
willfully destroy property. And if said pet does more damage than what would
be considered normal wear and tear I'm sure the deposit would cover for it.
erf. :(

Loganberry

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 9:47:56 PM2/5/03
to
Ironhoof <iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> wrote here on 06 Feb 2003:

<snip>


> I generally don't care for anime, though there is /some/ I find
> interesting. You might give 'Princess Mononoke' a try, though ...

<snip>

Okay, I'll have a gander.

> Rabbits don't hold much appeal for me at all ... then again,
> that's probably because all of my 'inner creatures' are predatory,
> lol ... eagle, cougar, wolf.

I wonder if a fur's nationality makes a difference as regards
phenotype - we've never had cougars in the UK, for example, so does
that mean fewer (or even more!) British cougar phenotypes? One for
Russ's forthcoming Darn Great Furry Stats Project (TM) I think.

> Rabbits be food. :)

Tell me about it... why do you think we breed so darn fast? =;)

Ironhoof

unread,
Feb 5, 2003, 10:07:06 PM2/5/03
to
On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 18:41:33 -0800, "Elizabeth A. Johnson"
<lizo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>
>
>Ironhoof wrote:
>
>>
>> It took 3 years just to get on SSI. They refused to put him on SSD, but
>> they wouldn't say why ... he had 3 different doctors confirm he is fully
>> disabled. He may be able to get in Medicare shortly which should take
>> care of the medical bills, whenever that red tape goes through.
>
>not sure if SSI is better than SSD or not. I first started out with both,
>but they increased the amount I was getting for SSD and kicked me off SSI.
>with SSI I was automatically eligible for State medical coverage. well,
>technically. and I should still have it since I am below the poverty level.
>but it's been a pain in the ass trying to get everything sorted out. they
>kicked me off everything about a year and a half ago and I had to fight to
>get back on. I hope all the paperwork is finally sorted out. I desperately
>need to see a doctor. So, even if he gets SSD that isn't insurance he won't
>get kicked off. I'm permanently disabled, but they hold inquiries every 3
>years just to make sure I'm still disabled. Last time the medical
>documentation failed to get to where it needed to go and nobody notified me
>until it was too late. what a mess.
>
>If they won't put him on SSD then he should be allowed to know why. There
>are lawyers out there that can help also. Or he can go about it himself by
>asking for an appeal. Write a letter stating you want a hearing and go in
>and appeal to their court. It isn't fun, but if he wants SSD then he's going
>to have to just go for it.

He has a lawyer, going through a pre-paid legal services thing. He's
also going through bankruptcy filing. He's trying to get on basic
assistance to keep the power and the phone.

Course wouldn't need all that if I could just get a job ... :/


>
>> He moved out of Section 8 housing because their changing requirements
>> wouldn't let him keep his canine mate.
>
>well, that wasn't smart at all. I can barely keep afloat WITH the Section 8
>Assistance. If someone said I absolutely had to give up my kitties I'd find
>someone to keep them for me until I could be reunited. It won't happen
>though because I have a piece of paper from my therapist saying I need all
>three of my little ones so no one will be able to separate us. Even if the
>apartments don't accept pets I am allowed to have them.
>
>I don't see why Section 8 would change their policy. Plus don't they have to
>allow you to keep them if your first contract stated you could? I know here
>they discourage pet ownership, but if the apartments allow it then they don't
>mind. The only thing they want is for you to be a considerate tenant and not
>willfully destroy property. And if said pet does more damage than what would
>be considered normal wear and tear I'm sure the deposit would cover for it.
>erf. :(
>

Its a mess. They get away with whatever they want to do here. He could
have won, yes, but they were making a big fuss of it and even if he
could keep his canine mate, they demanded he neuter him and that's
unacceptable. His mate is like 13 years old and has never bred a single
bitch.

Ben

unread,
Feb 6, 2003, 12:26:45 AM2/6/03
to
>>Wow, schitzophrenic much? Well, whoever you are welcome and *huggs*. I'll
>just
>>call you Ironhoof if you don't mind too much. And you can call me..
>>
>>-Dexter, you know, the fox
>
>One of these days I'll fill in what few letters of the alphabet I'm
>missing ... :) Actually that's why named Alyph the way I did, I didn't
>have an 'A' character, heh

Let me know when you find an 'X'. I like X's becasue they're so hard.


-Dexter, you know, the fox

cat

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Feb 6, 2003, 3:10:38 AM2/6/03
to
On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 18:00:14 -0800, Ironhoof
<iron...@NOSPAM.wolfhowl.org> miaoued:


>
>All I've met love anthropomorphic art and/or stories (I don't have much
>taste for either; I strongly prefer non-anthropomorphic)

I am disinterested in anthro art (unless of the goddess, and
all my art is realist, and decidedly non anthro

>All I've met are into fursuiting, plushies or both (I'm not into either)

No interest in fursuits (except for my work and those are not
"cute" ones) and only have a few realist feline plush and they are for
display.

>All I've met are big on going to "cons" (I've been to a couple to see
>what they were like, have no plans to ever go to another) and are
>generally pretty social (I definitely am not)

I am far from social and go to furry cons solely for business
(well I do the spirituality track and see a few distant friends)

>Most are bi and into frivolous sex orgies, often with strangers (nothing
>really wrong with this, just not to my taste)

Not either. That sort of behaviour bores me silly.

>Many find an 'inner fox' and/or 'inner rabbit' ... I have neither

Same here. I simply am a Felis Lybica, nothing inner about it.

Still, I am one of the "old time" Furs (and it looks like one
of the few still hanging around here) so never be sure what furs are
like. A LOT of us fit no known pattern and most aren't quite what
you'd expect anyway. Just be yourself and you'll do just fine

cat


cat

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Feb 6, 2003, 3:17:03 AM2/6/03