Morgan le Fay - Ugly or Beautiful?
Orjan Westin
she is a real beauty and maneater. I wonder, what are the earlies sources
for these two varieties of Morgan's appearance?
Do you know?
Orjan
Mary
Future King. Otherwise, I don't know that I've seen her appearance
mentioned, or at least mentioned as ugly. As for a man-eater, it
depends on the text and how many men it takes to be considered a
man-eater.
Of course, then you have the issue of Morgan and her related figures:
the HRB Anna, the Vita Merlini Morgana, relations to Morrigan, Modron,
etc.
"Orjan Westin" <nos...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bklb07$2v5s1$1...@ID-90122.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Catherine Green
news:bklb07$2v5s1$1...@ID-90122.news.uni-berlin.de...
The first appearance of someone with the name 'Morgen' is in Geoffrey of
Monmouth's Vita Merlini, where she appears as the beautiful leader of a
group of sisters on the 'Isle of Apples' where Arthur is taken to be healed.
At this point she is not his sister, nor is she evil. Her charachter
degenerates in later French prose romances, (she first becomes the enemy of
Guenevere and Lancelot, and only later Arthur's enemy) but she is still
beautiful. I don't remember Malory talking much about her appearance, but I
think the general impression was of a beautiful woman who wasn't always too
worried about whether men said 'yes' or whether they were under a spell.
She does appear as an ugly old woman in 'Sir Gawain and the Green Knight'
but as that story also includes a man who can turn green at will, I always
imagined the assumption was that this could just be a disguise.
Many moons ago at University I spent a long time looking into the reason
Morgan's character changes from that first appearance. There have been
arguments ranging from a rise in the fear or magic, a drop in the status of
women (though opinions are divided on whether this happened) or the fact
that her character may have been based on complex Celtic goddessess, who had
both good and bad sides to them, but while each argument had some convincing
points, I never really found what I could consider a really good answer.
Does anyone out there have any ideas?
Catherine
Cherith Baldry
>She does appear as an ugly old woman in 'Sir Gawain and the Green Knight'
>but as that story also includes a man who can turn green at will, I always
>imagined the assumption was that this could just be a disguise.
I have always assumed this. If she had been like that normally, Gawain would
presumably have recognised her.
As Morgan was a shape-shifter (see Malory, Book 4, Ch 14) she could appear in
whatever guise was convenient.
Best regards,
Cherith
jallan
Most medieval sources don't mention Morgaine's appearance one way or
the other. Her appearance as a very old woman in "Sir Gawain and the
Green Knight" is probably to be understood as an disguise by
enchantment.
The only exception I know that claims Morgaine was naturally ugly is a
passage in the Prose Lancelot. I provide it here from the English
translation in _Lancelot-Grail: The Old French Arthurian Vulgate and
Post-Vulgate in Translation_, Norris J. Lacy (editor), Volume 2, Part
III, page 311:
<< The fact is that Morgan was the daughter of the duke of Tintagel
and his wife Ygraine, who later became queen of Britain, the wife of
Uther Pendragon and mother of King Arthur, whom she had conceived
during the duke's lifetime through Merlin's treachery. When Ygraine
came to Uther Pendragon and married him, she had her daughter Morgan
with her; she left behind in the dukedom of Tintagel a boy who was the
duke's son by a wife the duke had had before Ygraine. The duke was an
ugly man, and Morgan, who took after him, was also ugly; and when she
came of age, she was so lustful and wanton that a looser woman would
not have been found. >>
But this ugliness is never mentioned elsewhere in the work.
The opposite appears in the Vulgate Merlin where she is described as
being comely and attractive with the one of the fairest heads and
fairest hands under heaven. From Chapter XXVII of a medieval English
translation of the Vulgate Merlin (available at
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/c/cme/cme-idx?type=header&idno=Merlin):
<< This Morgain was a yonge damesell fressh and Iolye. But she was
som-what brown of visage and sangwein colour, and nother to fatte ne
to lene, but was full a-pert auenaunt and comely, streight and right
plesaunt, and well syngynge. But she was the moste hotest woman of all
Breteigne, and moste luxuriouse, and she was a noble clergesse, and of
Astronomye cowde she I-nough, for Merlin hadde hir taught; and after
he lerned hir I-nough as ye shull heren afterward, and so moche she
sette ther-on hir entent, and lerned so moche of egramauncye, that the
peple cleped hir afterward Morgain le fee, the suster of kynge Arthur;
ffor the merveiles that she dide after in the contrey, and the beste
workewoman she was with hir handes, that eny man knewe in eny londe,
and ther-to she hadde oon of the ffeirest heed, and the feirest handes
vnder hevene, and sholdres well shapen at devise; and she hadde feire
eloquense, and tretable, and full debonair she was as longe as she was
in hir right witte, and whan she were wroth with eny man, she was
euell for to acorde; and that was well shewed afterward, ffor hir that
she sholde most haue loved of all the worlde dide she after the moste
shame, wherof it was after alle the dayes of hir lif, and that was the
quene Gonnore, as that ye shull it heren here-after and wher-fore it
was. >>
In many stories Morgaine is portrayed as lecherous.
Jim Allan
Orjan Westin
> "Orjan Westin" <nos...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:<bklb07$2v5s1$1...@ID-90122.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>> In some (re-)tellings of the stories, Morgan is really ugly, while
>> in others she is a real beauty and maneater. I wonder, what are the
>> earlies sources for these two varieties of Morgan's appearance?
>>
>> Do you know?
>
> Most medieval sources don't mention Morgaine's appearance one way or
> the other. Her appearance as a very old woman in "Sir Gawain and the
> Green Knight" is probably to be understood as an disguise by
> enchantment.
>
> The only exception I know that claims Morgaine was naturally ugly is a
> passage in the Prose Lancelot.
Thank you. I didn't know that this text had Arthur concieved while the duke
was still alive. I've only seen it empathically claimed that the duke
sallied forth and was killed before the conception, thus making him
concieved on an unwed widow, not a married woman.
Orjan
PAUL GADZIKOWSKI
: a passage in the Prose Lancelot
: << When Ygraine
: came to Uther Pendragon and married him, she had her daughter Morgan
: with her; she left behind in the dukedom of Tintagel a boy who was the
: duke's son by a wife the duke had had before Ygraine. >>
Who was this son? Cador? Mark? There are all sorts of 'of Cornwall'
surnames in the legends and no source I know of delineates their relations
to Gorlois, therefore Ygraine, therefore Arthur.
Paul Gadzikowski, scar...@iglou.com since 1995
http://members.iglou.com/scarfman New cartoons most days
"And - now, Mr. Tucker." "Sir?" "The doors, Trip!" "Aye, cap'n, I'm
working on it."
jallan
> jallan <jal...@smrtytrek.com> wrote:
> : a passage in the Prose Lancelot
>
> : << When Ygraine
> : came to Uther Pendragon and married him, she had her daughter Morgan
> : with her; she left behind in the dukedom of Tintagel a boy who was the
> : duke's son by a wife the duke had had before Ygraine. >>
>
> Who was this son? Cador? Mark? There are all sorts of 'of Cornwall'
> surnames in the legends and no source I know of delineates their relations
> to Gorlois, therefore Ygraine, therefore Arthur.
And of course Arthurian tradition is as as inconsistant about family
relations as it is about everything else
Neither Gorlois or Cador or March son of Meirchion (the Welsh Mark)
appear in any Welsh genealogies (unless you want to identify March son
of Meirchion with Kynvarch son of Meirchion who was King Urien's
father, which seem *very very very* dubious to me). There's only one
prominant Constantine (Custennin) in the genealogies: Custennin Gorneu
son of Cynvawr son of Tudwal who is often suspected of being the
Constantine who is one of the kings that Gildas preaches against and
therefore the source of Geoffrey's Constantine son of Cador.
Cynvawr may be the Conomorus who appears in Breton traditions as king
of Cornwall/Cornouaille in Brittany and who is identified with Mark in
one text. The names appear to be linguistically identical
In the Welsh _Ystoria Trystan_ March son of Meirchion, Trystan's
uncle, is said to be Arthur's first cousin through their mothers. No
Welsh tradition connects either March or Trystan/Drystan with
Cornwall. This might be just an accident from the small amount of
Welsh tradition that has survived, but it notable that in _Ystoria
Trystan_ the hero and Essyllt flee into the forest of Celyddon
(Caledonia) which is almost as far from Cornwall as one can get and
still be in Britain.
Commentators have tried differently to extract something coherent from
this mess and their speculations then get quoted as facts and often
mixed together by the unlearned who don't care where they get their
factoids. See for example the mess of supposition at
http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/markcw.html by an author who as
usual in such accounts cites no sources. The author also misspells
_Meirchion_ as _Meirion_. It is incorrect that any text presents the
form "Cono-mark".
In the French _Prose Tristan_ Mark's father is named Felix.
As to Cador, he's a very vague personage. In French poetic romances he
is barely mentioned. But in the first continuation to Chrétien de
Troyes' _Perceval_ Cador and his sister Guignier/Guimier appear as the
son and daughter of an unnamed king of Cornwall who has just died and
they are going to Arthur's court to have their right of inheritance
confirmed. Presumably this happens, but Cador is not called King Cador
in the rest of the story. Guignier/Guimier marries Caradoc Brechbras,
here presented as Arthur's grand nephew though Welsh tradition makes
him Arthur's first-cousin and in the _Prose Lancelot_ Caradoc is a
nephew of Arthur.
Material based on Geoffrey of Monmouth's _History of the Kings of the
Britains_ mostly tell us nothing about Cador beyond what Geoffrey
states. There are only four exceptions that I know of and (as usual in
Arthurian matters) they disagree.
From _The Arthurian Materials in the Chroncles_ by Robert Huntingdon
Fletcher, second edition, 1966, concerning the differences in the
_Brut Tysilo_, a medieval Welsh translation of Geoffrey of Monmouth's
_History of the Kings of Britain_, page 117:
<< ... and Cador, father of Constantine to whom Arthur leaves the
kingdom is said to be the son of Gorlois¹. All these statements may
possibly be details of the old British tradition from which Geoffrey
drew, but it is quite as likely that they are elaborations on his
text.
1. So Roberts; San Marte (p. 267) omits. >>
From the same work pp. 251, on John Hardyng's _Chronicle_:
<< Cador is called Arthur's brother "of his mother's syde." >>
In his additional notes on page 283, Fletcher writes the develop of
Geoffrey's tale:
<< Still later, (xi. 2) Geoffrey calls Cador's son Constantine, to
whom Arthur leaves the kingdom, Arthur's _cognatus_. (Later versions
say, _nephew_.) Geoffrey has represented Cador as Duke of Cornwall,
and if we wish to rationalize we may assume that Geoffrey thinks of
him as the immediate successor of Gorlois, perhaps therefore, as son
of Gorlois and Igerna and half-brother of Arthur. The _Brut Tysilio_
and Hardyng say definitely that Cador was son of Gorlois. That
Guenever is called in later versions a relative of Cador may be partly
a careless inference from this statement of Geoffrey, but more
probably comes from his earlier one (ix, 9) that Cador brought her
up.>>
There seems to be no way of telling whether Cador as son of Gorlois
(in two sources only) is genuine tradition or simple inference.
As to other accounts: Layamon's _Brut_ introduces a certain Cador as
the leader of the attack on Gorlois' camp which leads to his Gorlois'
death while Uther is in disguise at Tintagel. The reader is probably
intended to suppose that the later Cador Duke of Cornwall is this same
Cador who was given Gorlois' dukedom as a reward. For Layamon
therefore Cador is not Gorlois' son.
In the English stanzaic _Morte Arthure_ Cador is again and again
called Arthur's cousin (not brother or half-brother). No details are
given of the exact relationship.
The son and heir of the Duke of Tintagel from the one passage in the
_Prose Lancelot_ that I cited in my last post is never heard of again.
He does not appear in any other account of Arthur's or Ygerne's
family. Whether speculation about Cador (or even genuine tradition)
lies behind this in some way I do not know.
Cador doesn't appear at all in any of the French prose romances other
than in a single section of the _Vulgate Merlin_ which is a rendering
in prose of Wace's account of Arthur's Roman campaign with a few
modifications to fit a placement early in Arthur's reign (i.e. Kay and
Bedoier are just *almost* killed). Many of Geoffrey's names are
replaced by names more familiar from the late romances.
The name _Cador_ is kept but he becomes simply Cador of Cornwall with
no mention of ducal rank, probably because this work already
prominantly features King Yder as King of Cornwall.
King Yder is also called King of Cornwall in the French poetic romance
"Durmart le Galois". King Yder appears in various poetic romances is
very prominent in the _Prose Lancelot_ as well but only in "Durmart le
Galois" and the _Vulgate Merlin_ is his kingdom named.
However the authors of the Vulgate Lancelot cycle prominantly
introduce a King Cabarentin of Cornwall in the _Prose Lancelot_. King
Cabarentin of Cornwall appears again as one of Arthur's nine
commanders at his last battle against Mordret in the _La Morte
d'Artu_.
Jim Allan
PAUL GADZIKOWSKI
: PAUL GADZIKOWSKI <scar...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message news:<3f835...@news.iglou.com>...
:> Who was this son? Cador? Mark? There are all sorts of 'of Cornwall'
:> to Gorlois, therefore Ygraine, therefore Arthur.
:
: And of course Arthurian tradition is as as inconsistant about family
: relations as it is about everything else
Thanks for your exhaustive response!
jallan
> Thank you. I didn't know that this text had Arthur concieved while the duke
> was still alive. I've only seen it empathically claimed that the duke
> sallied forth and was killed before the conception, thus making him
> concieved on an unwed widow, not a married woman.
From Malory's _Le Morte Darthur_, Book I, chapter VIII:
<< Then all the kings were passing glad of Merlin, and asked him, For
what cause is that boy Arthur made your king? Sirs, said Merlin, I
shall tell you the cause, for he is King Uther Pendragon's son, born
in wedlock, gotten on Igraine, the duke's wife of Tintagil. Then is he
a bastard, they said all. Nay, said Merlin, after the death of the
duke, more than three hours, was Arthur begotten, and thirteen days
after King Uther wedded Igraine; and therefore I prove him he is no
bastard. >>
As so often in Arthurian literature what is claimed by one source is
denied by another.
But Malory's source here is a section of the _Vulgate Merlin_ (a
medieval translation in English is to be found at
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/c/cme/cme-idx?type=HTML&rgn=DIV1&byte=9696450
) and the statement that Arthur was conceived three hours after the
duke's death does not occur in Malory's source. The charge that Arthur
is a bastard is not answered.
The refutation would seem to be an addition by Malory.
I'm not at all sure that Malory's refutation is correct.
Merlin only establishes that Arthur was not begotten adulterously
since neither father or mother was married at the time of Arthur's
conception. But Arthur is still begotten outside of marriage. However
by all accounts Arthur is born within the marriage of his physical
father and mother. At least some definitions require that to be a
bastard one must both be begotten and born out of wedlock. Whether
begotten in adultery would seem to be beside the point.
Other definitions differ. See
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bastard.
I don't know enough about medieval case law to at all guess whether
Arthur would be legally a bastard or not and whether being begotten in
adultery does or doesn't make a difference.
That the accusation is not answered in the _Vulgate Merlin_ may be
because it is recognized in the circumstances as correct but not
relevant or because it is recognized as simple slander since Uther
Pendragon had recognized Arthur as his son when Arthur was born in
wedlock.
I don't recal any other texts besides this text of Malory's and the
text I provided from the _Prose Lancelot_ that have anything to say on
the matter of the time of Arthur's conception in respect to the time
of the death of Gorlois / the Duke of Tintagel.
Jim Allan