Welsh pronunciation
Richard Dalzell
I am currently reading "Enemy of God" by Bernard Cornwell and I find my
self constantly frustrated in my inability to correctly pronounce the
names and places which the author uses. Maybe it`s just me but I find a
book more enjoyable if while reading it I am able to correctly form the
names and places in my mind.
The author himself tells us in the author`s note of "The Winter King"
that the book`s narrator, Derfel, is pronounced Dervel.
Would anybody out there be able to shed any light on the correct
pronunciation of some of the more welsh based names that Cornwell uses
(so many consonants, so few vowels ;-)? Maybe they could post the
phonetic spellings to help a linguistic inadequate such as myself.
E.g.
Ceinwyn
Culhwch
Diwrnach
Gwlyddyn
Ynys Wydryn
Gwenhwyvach
etc, etc.
Thanks.
--
Richard Dalzell
Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/
Richard Dalzell
In article <fGORRKAL...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>, Sigurd Towrie
<s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk> writes
>A simplified pronounciation guide is given below:
>>
>>Ceinwyn - Ken-winn
>>Culhwch - Kil-ooch ("ch" soft as in "loch") - "h" is practically silent
>(actually comes from the back of your throat but we're getting complex
>now)
>>Diwrnach - Die - oor- nach ("ch" soft as in "loch")
>>Gwlyddyn - Goo - li - thin ("th" hard as in "this" not "thistle")
>>Ynys Wydryn - Innis oo-wi-drin
>>Gwenhwyvach - Goo-wen-whi-vach
>
>Let us know if you need more help
Thanks very much. I may scan the book and ask your advice on some of the
more common names that pop up. Just as a matter of interest, I see that
you are located on the Orkney Isles, does this mean that a fluent Scots
or Irish Gaelic speaker could make an informed pronunciation of Welsh? I
know that a friend of mine who is fluent in Scots Gaelic can make a fair
stab of a conversation in Irish but I believed that Welsh was much
harder. I suppose the rules of pronunciation must be fairly standard
across all the Gaelic flavours.
Thanks again.
Sigurd Towrie
In article <JCR02KAI...@ardee.demon.co.uk>, Richard Dalzell
<rdal...@ardee.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>Would anybody out there be able to shed any light on the correct
>pronunciation of some of the more welsh based names that Cornwell uses
>(so many consonants, so few vowels ;-)? Maybe they could post the
>phonetic spellings to help a linguistic inadequate such as myself.
A simplified pronounciation guide is given below:
>
>Ceinwyn - Ken-winn
>Culhwch - Kil-ooch ("ch" soft as in "loch") - "h" is practically silent
(actually comes from the back of your throat but we're getting complex
now)
>Diwrnach - Die - oor- nach ("ch" soft as in "loch")
>Gwlyddyn - Goo - li - thin ("th" hard as in "this" not "thistle")
>Ynys Wydryn - Innis oo-wi-drin
>Gwenhwyvach - Goo-wen-whi-vach
Let us know if you need more help
--
Sigurd Towrie |
Kirkwall, Orkney Isles | Orkney Website: www.stowrie.demon.co.uk
SCOTLAND | E-mail: s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk
Sigurd Towrie
In article <vgydOGAG...@ardee.demon.co.uk>, Richard Dalzell
<rdal...@ardee.demon.co.uk> writes
>Thanks very much. I may scan the book and ask your advice on some of the
>more common names that pop up.
No problem - glad to be of assistance.
>Just as a matter of interest, I see that
>you are located on the Orkney Isles, does this mean that a fluent Scots
>or Irish Gaelic speaker could make an informed pronunciation of Welsh? I
>know that a friend of mine who is fluent in Scots Gaelic can make a fair
>stab of a conversation in Irish but I believed that Welsh was much
>harder. I suppose the rules of pronunciation must be fairly standard
>across all the Gaelic flavours.
I honestly couldn't say for sure but I suspect this is the case.
Gaelic was never spoken in Orkney - except possibly a form of primitive
gaelic spoken by the Picts (but the pictish language is an arguable
point) before the Norse invasion in the 8th Century. Orkney had it's own
language - Norn, based on old Norse that was spoken until the 19th
Century. Remnants of the language exists today in our dialect.
Kenneth Jubal DeMonn
In article <vgydOGAG...@ardee.demon.co.uk>
Richard Dalzell <rdal...@ardee.demon.co.uk> writes:
:In article <fGORRKAL...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>, Sigurd Towrie
:<s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk> writes
:>A simplified pronounciation guide is given below:
:>>Ceinwyn - Ken-winn
:>>Culhwch - Kil-ooch ("ch" soft as in "loch") - "h" is practically silent
:>(actually comes from the back of your throat but we're getting complex
:>now)
:>>Diwrnach - Die - oor- nach ("ch" soft as in "loch")
:>>Gwlyddyn - Goo - li - thin ("th" hard as in "this" not "thistle")
:>>Ynys Wydryn - Innis oo-wi-drin
:>>Gwenhwyvach - Goo-wen-whi-vach
:>Let us know if you need more help
Some additional, general info, quoted from Jan Morris' _The Matter of
Wales_:
"Welsh uses several letters not in the English alphabet. Among them 'ch'
is pronounced as in Johann Sebastian [Note: which letter in J.S. not
specified, I'm guessing she means like the 'ch' in Bach --kjdm], 'dd' like
'th' in the English word 'them', 'ff' like the English 'f' and 'll'
something, but not much, like the English 'thl'. The vowel 'w' is
pronounced like the English 'oo', sometimes as in 'book', sometimes as in
'loom'. The vowel 'i' sometimes sounds like the 'e' in 'me', and sometimes
like the 'i' in 'win'. The vowel 'u' sounds more or less like the vowel
'i'. The vowel 'y' is pronounced sometimes like the 'u' in 'but', and
sometimes like the 'i' in 'slim'. The Welsh 'f' sounds like the English
'v', and the Welsh 'g' is always hard, as in 'garden'. The stress in a
word generally falls on the penultimate syllable."
I'm not really sure why, when Welsh was first being transliterated into
the Latin alphabet, nonstandard assignments were made for the phonemes
that do have English correspondents.
:Thanks very much. I may scan the book and ask your advice on some of the
:more common names that pop up. Just as a matter of interest, I see that
:you are located on the Orkney Isles, does this mean that a fluent Scots
:or Irish Gaelic speaker could make an informed pronunciation of Welsh? I
:know that a friend of mine who is fluent in Scots Gaelic can make a fair
:stab of a conversation in Irish but I believed that Welsh was much
:harder. I suppose the rules of pronunciation must be fairly standard
:across all the Gaelic flavours.
I'll defer to anyone actually conversant in the languages in question, but
I'd be inclined to guess not. The surviving Keltic languages are divided
into two broad families: Goidelic, which includes Irish Gaelic, Scottish
Gaelic (the Scots having come from Ireland, of course) and Manx; and
Brythonic, which includes Welsh (or Cymraeg), Cornish, and Breton. Hence
Welsh is more distantly related to the two Gaelics, than they are to each
other.
Btw, speaking of Latin up there, I was wondering if I could make a request
of someone knowledgeable of same: how does one say "Where am I" in Latin?
This is actually germane to this group, as I'm writing a story of a time
traveller visiting [the historical] Arthurian Britain, and want to start
out with the actual Latin phrase before switching to "written in English
for the benefit of the reader (and writer ;{) ) but understood to be
Latin" dialog. Thanks.
:Thanks again.
:Richard Dalzell
--
Kenneth Jubal DeMonn ****** kde...@oakland.edu ************** Swift says:
"Whoever could make two ears of corn to grow upon a spot of ground where
only one grew before would deserve better of mankind and do more essential
service for his country, than the whole race of politicians put together."