Character Loyalty
James A. Corveddu
How many of you believe there was a "historical" Lancelot or Merlin?
I am writing a story which does not include either of them because my
best research indicates they had less chance of really existing than
Arthur. With Arthur, a few historical and mythological people seem to
have been blended into one. I wonder if with Lancelot & Merlin it was a
case of the opposite: one person being split into two. For instance, I
could make a case that Merlin is just a "side" of the person also known
as Ambrosius. Likewise, I think Lancelot is a character derived from
Bedwyr.
In my story, I try to make up for the losses by reintegrating them into
the characters which had a more likely chance of existing. I also have
been considering the creation of new characters which may have also
existed. Foremost, I would like to include a "hag" who trains Arthur in
the ways of combat (like a drill sergeant).
Any input?
Jim Corveddu
The Uther Pendragon of the UseNet
m...@fti.com
In article <33C5C9...@tvi.cc.nm.us>,
pr...@tvi.cc.nm.us wrote:
>
> How many of you believe there was a "historical" Lancelot or Merlin?
> I am writing a story which does not include either of them because my
> best research indicates they had less chance of really existing than
> Arthur. With Arthur, a few historical and mythological people seem to
> have been blended into one. I wonder if with Lancelot & Merlin it was a
> case of the opposite: one person being split into two. For instance, I
> could make a case that Merlin is just a "side" of the person also known
> as Ambrosius. Likewise, I think Lancelot is a character derived from
> Bedwyr.
Perhaps the Lancelot and Guinevere affair was all slander and rumor.
Perhaps Galahad, which was Lancelot's true name, was Lancelot himself
after being 'born again' into Christianty and therefore, there was no
seedy deception which engendered a 'child' named Galahad. Lancelot
reclaims his true name, Galahad, and achieves the Grail. This would, of
course, destroy the supposed affair with Guinevere - nasty rumor that
one.
There was also discussion relating to the Angulus/Lancelot/Scottish
connection in the group.
> In my story, I try to make up for the losses by reintegrating them into
> the characters which had a more likely chance of existing. I also have
> been considering the creation of new characters which may have also
> existed. Foremost, I would like to include a "hag" who trains Arthur in
> the ways of combat (like a drill sergeant).
> Any input?
I would love to know the impetus behind the 'hag'. Why a 'hag'? We have
Finn mac Cool/Fionn mac Cumhal who was secretely raised by Liath Luachra,
a woman warrior, and the druidess Bodhmall. I think the piece is 'The
Boyhood Deeds of Finn'.
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Robert Elliot
James A. Corveddu wrote:
>
> How many of you believe there was a "historical" Lancelot or Merlin?
> I am writing a story which does not include either of them because my
> best research indicates they had less chance of really existing than
> Arthur. With Arthur, a few historical and mythological people seem to
> have been blended into one. I wonder if with Lancelot & Merlin it was a
> case of the opposite: one person being split into two. For instance, I
> could make a case that Merlin is just a "side" of the person also known
> as Ambrosius. Likewise, I think Lancelot is a character derived from
> Bedwyr.
I think that the origin of Merlin was Mryddin Wylt, the mad man of the
woods who the Annales Cambriae date to significantly after Arthur. As
for Lancelot, there is some dispute; some people want to see an Irish
hero called (sorry about the spelling) Llenleawg as a precursor, but I
think he was probably a creation of the French to provide the court
romance demanded of the genre of literature they were writing. I think
that your idea is a good one; have you considered the similarities
between the Merlin/Arthur relationship and the Samuel/David one? As a
historian I think Arthur lived in a Christian Britain, not one torn
between Christianity and Druidic religion; I think Merlin has
interesting possibilities as an Old Testament prophet character as
opposed to the standard druid that every modern Arthurian writer
chooses.
Just thoughts,
Rob
Wilson
IMHO, the legend would survive and maybe even benefit from the
disappearance of Lancelot - but literally without Merlin there is no magic
!
Myrddin
Both Merlin and Lancelot have an historical backgound. When Arthur went to
france to save chrisitanity from the barbaric German invaders, he teamed up
with may french knights, which is where Lancelot could have come into play.
As you know for ancient news the monks usually right down one thing for
the whole year. One year all they wrote was "Merlin has gone Insane". He
must have been a pretty important guy.
James A. Corveddu wrote in article <33C5C9...@tvi.cc.nm.us>...
>How many of you believe there was a "historical" Lancelot or Merlin?
>I am writing a story which does not include either of them because my
>best research indicates they had less chance of really existing than
>Arthur. With Arthur, a few historical and mythological people seem to
>have been blended into one. I wonder if with Lancelot & Merlin it was a
>case of the opposite: one person being split into two. For instance, I
>could make a case that Merlin is just a "side" of the person also known
>as Ambrosius. Likewise, I think Lancelot is a character derived from
>Bedwyr.
>the characters which had a more likely chance of existing. I also have
>been considering the creation of new characters which may have also
>existed. Foremost, I would like to include a "hag" who trains Arthur in
>the ways of combat (like a drill sergeant).
>Any input?
>