The "Dwarf" in Arthurian Legend
Sigurd Towrie
Across the Arthurian Legends, there are numerous mentions of dwarfs,
most of whom (of the top of my head) happen to be evil little sods.
We know (I think) that these are not the Tolkien-esque Scandinavian
bearded mountain dwellers that quaff ale and go on quests but does
anyone have any ideas as to the use of the terminology "dwarf" within
the literature?
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the term "dwarf" could be
equated with "serf" - in other words a slave/servant. Anyone have any
other ideas to throw into the pot?
--
Sigurd Towrie |
Kirkwall, Orkney Isles | Orkney Website: www.stowrie.demon.co.uk
SCOTLAND | E-mail: s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk
Geoffrey Krummel
In article <j4L+OTAw3$qyE...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>, s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk
says...
>
>Across the Arthurian Legends, there are numerous mentions of dwarfs,
>most of whom (of the top of my head) happen to be evil little sods.
>
>We know (I think) that these are not the Tolkien-esque Scandinavian
>bearded mountain dwellers that quaff ale and go on quests but does
>anyone have any ideas as to the use of the terminology "dwarf" within
>the literature?
>
>I seem to recall reading somewhere that the term "dwarf" could be
>equated with "serf" - in other words a slave/servant. Anyone have any
>other ideas to throw into the pot?
I was always under the impression that these were literally dwarfs (midgets).
m...@bern.com
In article <j4L+OTAw3$qyE...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>,
Sigurd Towrie <s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Across the Arthurian Legends, there are numerous mentions of dwarfs,
> most of whom (of the top of my head) happen to be evil little sods.
>
> We know (I think) that these are not the Tolkien-esque Scandinavian
> bearded mountain dwellers that quaff ale and go on quests but does
> anyone have any ideas as to the use of the terminology "dwarf" within
> the literature?
>
> I seem to recall reading somewhere that the term "dwarf" could be
> equated with "serf" - in other words a slave/servant. Anyone have any
> other ideas to throw into the pot?
From: dh...@worldaccess.com (Dan Hunt)
Subject: Re: dwarves
I was thinking about the on-going debate on Arthurian
dwarves as attendants of knights and came up with this:
Might not a perceived affinity of the word squire (ME
squier, fr. OF esqueir, escuier, fr. LL. scutarius, "shield
bearer") with the Welsh word cor, "dwarf", have led to the
squire of a knight becoming the dwarf of a knight?
Dan Hunt
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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Lisa L. Spangenberg
> In article <j4L+OTAw3$qyE...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>,
> Sigurd Towrie <s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Across the Arthurian Legends, there are numerous mentions of dwarfs,
> > most of whom (of the top of my head) happen to be evil little sods.
> >
> > We know (I think) that these are not the Tolkien-esque Scandinavian
> > bearded mountain dwellers that quaff ale and go on quests but does
> > anyone have any ideas as to the use of the terminology "dwarf" within
> > the literature?
> >
> > I seem to recall reading somewhere that the term "dwarf" could be
> > equated with "serf" - in other words a slave/servant. Anyone have any
> > other ideas to throw into the pot?
>
Dwarf is itself a German word, and most of the Dwarves in Arthurian
English literature entered via French Arthurian literature. Vernon Hayward
wrote an interesting study, The Dwarfs of Arthurian Romance and Celtic
Tradition, Leiden 1958.
It's been years since I thought about this, but I do remember a connection
between the role dwarves in French and German Arthurian tradition, and
that of the Giant Herdsman in Celtic, expecially Welsh literature.
--
Lisa L. Spangenberg | Digital Medievalist
Lis...@Netcom.Com | My opinions are my own.
MaryAnn Huntington
m...@bern.com wrote:
>
> In article <j4L+OTAw3$qyE...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>,
> Sigurd Towrie <s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > I seem to recall reading somewhere that the term "dwarf" could be
> > equated with "serf" - in other words a slave/servant. Anyone have any
> > other ideas to throw into the pot?
>
> From: dh...@worldaccess.com (Dan Hunt)
> Subject: Re: dwarves
>
> I was thinking about the on-going debate on Arthurian
> dwarves as attendants of knights and came up with this:
>
> Might not a perceived affinity of the word squire (ME
> squier, fr. OF esqueir, escuier, fr. LL. scutarius, "shield
> bearer") with the Welsh word cor, "dwarf", have led to the
> squire of a knight becoming the dwarf of a knight?
>
> Dan Hunt
From: dh...@worldaccess.com (Dan Hunt)
Subject: Re: dwarves
Didn't stop to think that the French word for dwarf (cognate with L.
nanus) was nain (or, rather, its Old or Middle French equivalent).
This suggests a different possibility for the attendant dwarves of
knights. Knights, being nobles on all that, would not be likely to
tend to their own cleaning, cooking, etc., while "out in the field".
So how about OF meinie, ME meynie, confused for nain (or its plural)?
Meynie is "retinue", a retinue or train of servants, especially
domestic servants. It may be these and not dwarves who accompanied
knights on their wanderings.
Best,
Dan
<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>^<^>
Eschew Obfuscation.
MaryAnn Huntington, Warwick, New York, USA, 914.258.1554
Sigurd Towrie
In article <32AEB1...@bern.com>, MaryAnn Huntington <m...@bern.com>
writes
>Didn't stop to think that the French word for dwarf (cognate with L.
>nanus) was nain (or, rather, its Old or Middle French equivalent).
>This suggests a different possibility for the attendant dwarves of
>knights. Knights, being nobles on all that, would not be likely to
>tend to their own cleaning, cooking, etc., while "out in the field".
>So how about OF meinie, ME meynie, confused for nain (or its plural)?
>Meynie is "retinue", a retinue or train of servants, especially
>domestic servants. It may be these and not dwarves who accompanied
>knights on their wanderings.
This and your previous post (regarding squire mistranslation) make
complete sense.
It always struck me as strange the number of dwarves that had managed to
find employment with predominant knights in the Arthurian Legends.
Thanks Dan
Sigurd Towrie
In article <HvPHLyA7...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>, Sigurd Towrie
<s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk> writes
>It always struck me as strange the number of dwarves that had managed to
>find employment with predominant knights in the Arthurian Legends.
Just when I was satisfied with this subject.
While reading this morning of some Celtic excavations of sacrificial
pits/shafts, I came across a reference to a shaft in which was found
"the skeleton of a dwarf". While I appreciate that this was probably a
one-off and does not mean the dwarf was held in any regard by the Celts,
other such shafts contained the upright skeleton of a warrior with his
spear nearby, the bones of the birds used by the Celts as portents
(ravens, starlings), hares (Boudica's totem). Any idea if there is a
tradition/reason for the dwarf to be included in these offerings?
Lisa L. Spangenberg
In article <1XuLVGA5...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>, Sigurd Towrie
<S...@stowrie.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <HvPHLyA7...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>, Sigurd Towrie
> <s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk> writes
> >It always struck me as strange the number of dwarves that had managed to
> >find employment with predominant knights in the Arthurian Legends.
>
> Just when I was satisfied with this subject.
>
> While reading this morning of some Celtic excavations of sacrificial
> pits/shafts, I came across a reference to a shaft in which was found
> "the skeleton of a dwarf". While I appreciate that this was probably a
> one-off and does not mean the dwarf was held in any regard by the Celts,
> other such shafts contained the upright skeleton of a warrior with his
> spear nearby, the bones of the birds used by the Celts as portents
> (ravens, starlings), hares (Boudica's totem). Any idea if there is a
> tradition/reason for the dwarf to be included in these offerings?
> --
There are a number of shaft/pit burials with what Barry Cunliffe has
called "human Oddities," people whose physical appearance was somehow
altered from the norm. He suggests that they may have been perceived as
marked for sacrifice.
Sigurd Towrie
In article <Lisala-1512...@www.algonet.se>, "Lisa L.
Spangenberg" <Lis...@Netcom.com> writes
>> --
>There are a number of shaft/pit burials with what Barry Cunliffe has
>called "human Oddities," people whose physical appearance was somehow
>altered from the norm. He suggests that they may have been perceived as
>marked for sacrifice.
>
If these "human oddities" were marked for sacrifice, would they have
been regarded as being touched/favoured by the gods so to speak.
Could this then be a reason some dwarves (I say some - I know of at
least one) later crop up in literature working in "otherworldly"
locations serving the "lord of the otherworld".
(I do agree that others (squires) are probably the result of
mistranslations).
Just a thought...
Sigurd Towrie
In article <ME4eUVA7...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>, Sigurd Towrie
<s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk> writes
>>> --
>>There are a number of shaft/pit burials with what Barry Cunliffe has
>>called "human Oddities," people whose physical appearance was somehow
>>altered from the norm. He suggests that they may have been perceived as
>>marked for sacrifice.
>>
>If these "human oddities" were marked for sacrifice, would they have
>been regarded as being touched/favoured by the gods so to speak.
>
>Could this then be a reason some dwarves (I say some - I know of at
>least one) later crop up in literature working in "otherworldly"
>locations serving the "lord of the otherworld".
The Dwarf saga goes on....
A mosaic at Otranto shows King Arthur riding a goat which according to
RS Loomis relate to Welsh Legend of a pygmy king (dwarf) king who rode
a large goat...
Can anyone enlighten me as to this legend?
Sigurd Towrie
>
>>> --
>>There are a number of shaft/pit burials with what Barry Cunliffe has
>>called "human Oddities," people whose physical appearance was somehow
>>altered from the norm. He suggests that they may have been perceived as
>>marked for sacrifice.
>>
>If these "human oddities" were marked for sacrifice, would they have
>been regarded as being touched/favoured by the gods so to speak.
>
>Could this then be a reason some dwarves (I say some - I know of at
>least one) later crop up in literature working in "otherworldly"
>locations serving the "lord of the otherworld".
>
I'm posting this again (originally posted just before Christmas when
very few people were visiting the group) to see if anyone can shed some
light....
Sigurd Towrie
In article <9$hJvlA2k...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>, Sigurd Towrie
<s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>A mosaic at Otranto shows King Arthur riding a goat which according to
>RS Loomis relate to Welsh Legend of a pygmy king (dwarf) king who rode
>a large goat...
Just as a matter of interest, while reading one of my Xmas presents -
The King's Evil by Haydn Middleton - this enigmatic mosaic of the King
riging a goat crops up again.
Warren Mockett
Sigurd
The sequel to the King's Evil is now published in hardback in the UK
The Queen's Captive
Haven't seen it in the shops yet though
Warren Mockett
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PASQUALE FESTA
can I have the particulars on the books kings evil and the queens
captive, would Barnes and Noble carry these? or be able to order them?
thanks:
Pasquale J. Festa Sr.
Sigurd Towrie
In article <0c57nDAW...@stowrie.demon.co.uk>, Sigurd Towrie
<s...@stowrie.demon.co.uk> writes
>Just as a matter of interest, while reading one of my Xmas presents -
>The King's Evil by Haydn Middleton - this enigmatic mosaic of the King
>riging a goat crops up again.
I was re-reading "Gereint, Son of Erbin" last night and leapt for joy -
the figure of "Gwiffred Petit" or "Y Brenhin Bychan" - The Little King
whom Gereint had "never seen a man smaller than him he saw on the
horse". I wonder if this is an aspect of our goat riding dwarf?
Sigurd Towrie
In article <32C986...@snet.net>, PASQUALE FESTA <pasj...@snet.net>
writes
>can I have the particulars on the books kings evil and the queens
>captive, would Barnes and Noble carry these? or be able to order them?
Sure thing - I only have details of "The King's Evil" however;
THe King's Evil by Haydn Middleton (A Modred Cycle Novel)
ISBN 0-7515-1299-0
If Barnes and Noble (is this a bookshop?) can't get them for you, you
might be interested in www.amazon.com, an online bookshop that really is
quite good for tracking down and ordering books. The other service I
have to use quite a bitrather "remote" location is the UK based Internet
Bookshop (www.bookshop.co.uk).