Wilson and Blackett
news_surfer
Blackett have a new website. This is at www.kingarthur.fsnet.co.uk . Here
you will find details of the genealogies of the 2 King Arthurs described in
our book "The Holy Kingdom" as well as much other material based on their
researches. At their website you will find pictures of the REX ARTORIUS FILI
MAURICIUS stone and of the Electrum Cross.
You don't have to agree with their conclusions (I don't agree with
everything) to see that their researches are original and far-reaching in
many fields. This is a website worthy of close scrutiny and will explain why
there has been such a block on true Arthurian research in Wales.
Adrian Gilbert.
Sarah
Adrian, I've read several of your books with M. Bauval, and
found them quite interesting. However, I cannot _believe_
you have actually _SEEN_ the site you're touting here, if
the person who posted this "recommendation" is the same
Adrian Gilbert.
Regarding their "historical" material:
The _Cymry_ are descendants of the ancient Brythons, who
derive from the continent of Europe, and arrived somewhere
between the 9th century BCE and the 4th. They have no
relation to the lost tribes of Israel (nor to the
Cimmerians), and there is no
evidence that they were ever Semitic, or spoke a Semitic
language. By the time the Brythons arrived in Britain, the
Israelites were developing their own script. They certainly
did not speak any Celtic language, nor could they have
acquired one -- they were removed from Palestine in 722 BCE,
just a little too late for Wilson/Blackett's purposes. This
is the same type of whacked pseudohistory that made the
Nazis infamous, and "scholars" like Waddell (who thought
that the British were descendants of the Phoenicians)
ridiculous.
Their "Basic Historical Facts" are hysterical. Their
etymologies are a farce, and don't even take into
consideration that derivations and related words are _known_
for many of the names they mangle. Their interpretation of
"Beli Mawr" is particularly entertaining, since "mawr" is a
basic Welsh term whose meaning is well-known and is still
current in modern Welsh.
That there were multiple Brychans is only reasonable, as
well as multiple Constantines... lots of Peters, Pauls,
Patricks, etc...
Early Christians would naturally name their sons after the
great,
supposedly Christian emperor, in later years. So what? Yes,
confusion is possible, but is nowhere near so likely as with
place names, like Cornwall, of which there are six areas
with names that could be any of the "Cornwall" sites in
Geoffrey of Monmouth. (I'd personally like to know why there
are so many children of Llywarch Hen in thegenealogies. e
couldn't possibly have ...hmmm... _mated with_ so many
women... he wouldn't have any time to write poetry. And
believe me, no _one_ woman gave birth to that many kids.
Furthermore, he supposedly _lost_ his patrimony, so how
exactly did he manage to feed all those women and brats?
When it comes down to it, he either did _not_ in fact have
so many offspring or died young from being castrated by a
pissed-off father or brother.)
Where did they get the "cometary impact" on Britain? The
rest of Europe, in the cities and towns, was fairly
literate, and trade was continuing... why are there no
records, such as in Geoffrey of Tours, or even in the
Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, that this happened? (I've read
Geoffrey of Tours and the ASC, if this had been mentioned,
believe me, I'd have noticed it! The only other _comet_
that struck this planet that is known of was the one that
killed off the dinosaurs, last I heard.)
Regarding the King List of Edward Williams:
First off, it doesn't appear to be a kinglist at all, just a
list of names and their supposed etymologies/derivations,
which in a number of cases are patently ridiculous
(Avallach). Kinglists generally indicate some length for
each reign and make some attempt at indicating
relationships, if there are any, between
predecessors/successors. Some kinglists also contain
extracts from associated royal annals, as does the one I
analyse in an article on my own website, and which I
announced in this newsgroup earlier this week.
Let's see, Edward Williams was also known as Iolo Morgannwg,
was he not? I believe that character was known for his
"improving" of
texts. I wouldn't call this a credible text, particularly
when one has a Welsh dictionary to hand.
There is no reference which supports their assertion that
the ancient name of Tyre was "Sarras". There is, however,
an area associated with a very similar name in Barcelona,
Calabria, a very ancient city which was, at various times,
Iberian, Celtic, Roman, and Visigothic. The particular area
of the city
I refer to was anciently a Jewish settlement, and may have
been one possible place of exile for the man known as Yeshua
ben Yusuf, if he did in fact survive his execution by Romans
in Judaea. Grail freaks can make of this what they will.
(There is also a site with a similar name in Egypt... and
both names are historically documented, unlike the supposed
connection to Tyre).
The (to put it mildly) far-fetched association they conjure
up between Britain, Ptolemy, and a Roman officer in
Palestine called Albinus is hysterically idiotic.
The idea that Maximus was the father of an "Arthur" is not
supported by the Welsh genealogies. The person they refer
to was, in Latin: Antonius Donatus, and in Welsh: A_n_hun,
not
A_r_hun (and who was evidently old enough at the time his
father left Britain as Emperor-elect to accompany him, which
suggests that his age was such that his mother could not
possibly have been British, MM having evidently accompanied
Theodosius the Elder in his reconstruction assignment to
northern Britain after the Great Raid of 376). They cite no
references for this putative lineage, which tends to make me
very
suspicious that it originates only in their imagination and
wishful thinking. While a manuscript _r_ and _n_ may appear
quite similar, and may be miscopied easily by a tired
copyist, they also identify _Anhun_/"Arhun" with a third
person, one "Andragathius", without giving any
evidence for this corrolation, and there is no linguistic
connection between the Celtic Andragathius and the
Romano-British Antonius/Anhun. There are, in fact, no
"details" cited in this page, simply _assertions_without any
real supporting evidence.
As to their second Arthur, others have already suggested
him... Chris Barber & David Pykitt, in JOURNEY TO AVALON.
And while I agree with them (to a certain extent), that
Athruis ap Meurip was _one_ of the historical persons who
went into the development of the composite character known
as "King Arthur", I think they're seriously off on the first
one, since it seems to be based on a one-letter arbitrary
mispelling and an identification with someone with a very
different name (Andragathius). So far, they're just tagging
after Barber & Pykitt, and attempting to add their own
little spin, evidently to get attention for their hopeful
tourist site
in Wales.
Their genealogical material is incoherent and badly
written. It doesn't track well at well, can't make sense of
most of it. They really should try reading some actual
genealogical texts and use them as models for their own
pages. David Ford has some extremely good genealogical
pages on the ancient British lineages on his website, which
is quite well done (ignoring the somewhat garish
backgrounds):
http://freespace.virgin.net/david.ford2/Early%20British%20Kingdoms.html
Regarding the other material:
They repeatedly mention some organization called CADW,
without clarifying what this group is. Is that a Welsh
word/proper name used as a group name, or is it an acronym?
If it is an acronym, what does it stand for, and who are
they? Are they a private group, or a government
organization? How did they get involved in this affair?
They really should define what a "quango" is for the rest of
the planet who don't know British political slang. Who sets
up one, who runs it, where their money comes from, who has
oversight, if any, etc.
They have 2 links regarding "court cases". I see, on trying
to read the material on the page named "Court Case 1",
nothing but semi-hysterical allegations with distinct
indications of incipient paranoia, with no indication that
there is an _actual_ court case involved. The account of
the search warrant is incoherent. What did the warrant state
the authorities were looking for? Who brought the charges
or gave evidence supporting whatever allegation(s) that
resulted in the search warrant? -- What were those
charges/allegations? First they say the church was damaged,
then they insist it was not. -- They refer to some raid on
an office and missing artifacts, which they also imply were
buried in a casket on their church property by a third
party, which seems, from what I read on the site, to be
related to the casket/chest the police were looking for
during the
execution of the search warrant. They do not state the
date/time of the office raid/theft, nor do they include any
supporting documents, such as police reports, that such a
theft ever occurred. There are no photographs of the raided
offices. There are no photographs of the artifacts that
have gone missing.
That they _own_ the property where they so conveniently
found "artifacts" is only another source of reasonable
doubt.
Of course, the tourist fees to the site would keep two aging
men quite nicely if they could get this theory
well-entrenched in the popular mind. That the artifacts
were "stolen" from an office is oddly convenient, too...
no-one can test what isn't available. Their credibility is
seriously in doubt here.
The second "court case" has, evidently, not a damn thing to
do with anything Arthurian -- why this is part of
"ArthurGate"
is not apparent. It is simply a sordid account
of an aging man who has various tawdry relationships with
various odd lodgers, one of whom happens to be his colleague
in the two "research foundation".
This second "case" was obviously included on the site
solely to counter the bad press received during the affair,
which was seen as reflecting on the credibility of Mr.
Wilson, not surprisingly. The account of the affair as given
simply casts _more_ doubt on the credibility of those
involved.
Regarding the "foundations" named on the home page:
Normally, such research foundations as "The Arthurian
Research Foundation of Britain" and "The International
Arthurian Research Foundation" have innumerable links to
other organizations having to do with their pet subject.
Neither of these link to any other Arthurian organization or
historical research organizations, which suggests that it is
an impromptu, one-or-two man group with little actual
structure or organization (such as a board of directors,
funding committee or trustees, research associates, etc),
and completely
lacks any professional prestige or credibility. They appear
to be window dressing, in other words.
All in all, the account of whatever is going on is extremely
incoherent, and has very little evidence to back it up or
give me any reason to fork over any money for ONE book, much
less all those they mention as being available or soon to be
available. I'd suggest they hire someone who actually knows
how to organize evidentiary material(in regards to "case
#1),
not to mention someone who actually knows how to write.
Furthermore, one of the pair of gentlemen is not old enough
to have been investigating _anything_ for 40 years. He is
considerably younger than Mr. Wilson, judging from the
rather odd photo of the pair.I seriously doubt they've been
acquainted for even half that long.
Please assure Mr. Wilson that I am not anti-Welsh, I'm
simply anti-crackpot. I am, in fact, descended from several
Welsh lines, including Jones, Morgan, Lewis, and Leonard, as
well as a variety of other lineages originating in the
British Isles. If you run a search in Deja News on my
posting address, I'm sure you'll find several posts
regarding Arthurian studies which will show that I am far
from buying into the "canonical" AS-dominant version of
history, as Mr. Wilson would have it. I have an alternative
interpretation of Arthurian matters, which I will not
discuss in detail now.
I hope Mr. Wilson's cataract surgery went well. Both my
parents had the same surgery -- my dad also had a detaching
retina that was re-attached using laser surgery, and could
still read quite well at 82; my mother reads quite alot
still, and has had no other problems with her vision since
the surgery (she does tend to lose her glasses quite often,
though!).
Regards,
Sarah
hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu
: Arthurian researchers will be interested to hear that Alan Wilson and Baram
: Blackett have a new website. This is at www.kingarthur.fsnet.co.uk . Here
: you will find details of the genealogies of the 2 King Arthurs described in
: our book "The Holy Kingdom" as well as much other material based on their
: researches. At their website you will find pictures of the REX ARTORIUS FILI
: MAURICIUS stone and of the Electrum Cross.
I forget -- has anybody ever given a satisfactory for why both the stone
and cross use such execrable Latin? I mean, I know that grammatical
sophistication varied considerably in the post-Classical period, but
screwing up your second declension nominatives and genitives just seems so
... odd.
--
*********************************************************
Heather Rose Jones hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu
**********************************************************
Steff
Thank goodness for a voice of reason around here. I agree with most of your
points (but I haven't finished reading them all yet) - their books are as
unbelievable as the site.
Sarah <soli...@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:3947B6EA...@earthling.net...
<SNIP>
> As to their second Arthur, others have already suggested
> him... Chris Barber & David Pykitt, in JOURNEY TO AVALON.
> And while I agree with them (to a certain extent), that
> Athruis ap Meurip was _one_ of the historical persons who
> went into the development of the composite character known
> as "King Arthur", I think they're seriously off on the first
> one, since it seems to be based on a one-letter arbitrary
> mispelling and an identification with someone with a very
> different name (Andragathius). So far, they're just tagging
> after Barber & Pykitt, and attempting to add their own
> little spin, evidently to get attention for their hopeful
> tourist site
> in Wales.
Although I am no fan of Wilson et al, to be fair they came up with this
before Barber & Pykitt as they acknowledge in Journey to Avalon.
<SNIP>
> They repeatedly mention some organization called CADW,
> without clarifying what this group is. Is that a Welsh
> word/proper name used as a group name, or is it an acronym?
> If it is an acronym, what does it stand for, and who are
> they? Are they a private group, or a government
> organization? How did they get involved in this affair?
CADW - Welsh Historic Monuments ('to keep) is not an acronym. It is the
name of the Welsh equivelant of English Heritage, a governmental body.
>
> They really should define what a "quango" is for the rest of
> the planet who don't know British political slang. Who sets
> up one, who runs it, where their money comes from, who has
> oversight, if any, etc.
Quango - 'quasi-autonomous non-governmental organisation. That is, an
appointed body financed by the public purse and not particularly answerable.
The Assembly for Wales was supposed to cut down some of these in the name of
democracy, but is a bit slow to do so. However, they can call them up in
front of committee style hearings.
<SNIP>
I'll get back to the rest of your post now.
Steffan
news_surfer
>
> Adrian, I've read several of your books with M. Bauval, and
> found them quite interesting. However, I cannot _believe_
> you have actually _SEEN_ the site you're touting here, if
> the person who posted this "recommendation" is the same
> Adrian Gilbert.
>
>
> Regards,
> Sarah
Sarah,
Well where do I start? As I said in my first posting I don't
agree with everythin on this website. I have known Alan and Baram for about
five years now and I can tell you that they are very sincere in their
researches. Unfortunately they are rather disorganised in the presentation
of their material, which is why they asked me to write "The Holy Kingdom".
The material presented here, if you analyse it, you will find stacks up
pretty well with the genealogies. I checked them myself. However, as the
genealogies do sometimes conflict with one another, it is not always
possible to reach a 100% definitive conclusion.
As regards "Keys to Avalon" that you mention by Chris Barber, all I will say
is that he was taken round most of those sites by Alan Wilson and some
people might say he plagiarised their work. If you read Artorius Rex by
Wilson and Blackett you will see that many of the pictures in it were taken
by Chris Barber who at that time was their friend. I have not met Chris
Barber myself so don't know what the truth of such an allegation as
plagiarism might be. I'm sure he would contend that it was the other way
round.
As must be clear from their site, Wilson and Blackett are indeed fairly
eccentric in their ways. This, however, is no bad thing when you are trying
to research beyond the limits of what is currently accepted dogma. Time
servers seldom make any discoveries of any consequence even if they have
dozens of degrees. Real discoverries that change people's thinking are made
by eccentric geniuses. Look at Einstein. I can say that in all honesty Alan
Wilson is one of the most intelligent men I have ever met. If you have one
quarter of the original ideas in your life as he has then you will be doing
very well indeed.
Regarding the police cases, I can tell you that these are genuine and
substantial. They are not my business and I won't go into them. However I
think I would be slightly paranoid if I had been put through some of the
things they have. I don't think I would have posted the material on the web
they way they have but then I am not them. Again, if you love Wales and love
your civil liberties you should wish them well in these endeavours. Next
time it could be you who receives a knock on the door in the dead of night.
Thank you for your kind comments concerning "The Orion Mystery". I hope you
enjoyed "The Holy Kingdom" too. It is quite a long book and contains a vast
amount of material. My advice to you is to take from it what you find useful
and leave aside what seems unreasonable or unproven. I have done my best
with this book to produce an integrated whole from what were very diverse
and research notes. It not a simple book though it is deceptively easy to
read. In the end it is down to the reader to mine the information it
contains. My work is done in having written it.
Adrian Gilbert.
Steff
I must admit to being somewhat taken aback by the court case items on the
site. Especially the allegations regarding the Glamorgan Gwent Trust. I
remember the Western Mail article; and I have to confess it has coloured my
attitude towards them (though not their theories regarding Arthur etc).
Do you know if there has been any change in personnel at the Trust? Has
there been a check made on credentials? I realise you mentioned it in Holy
Kingdom, but I was unaware of the gravity of the complaints.
I'm sure Chris Barber would not knowingly plagiarise. At the back of his
book he discusses, briefly, the Wilson & Blackett ideas - agrees with some,
dismisses others.
Steffan
news_surfer <definite...@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:L4R15.2627$LP4.4...@nnrp4.clara.net...
>
> Sarah <soli...@earthling.net> wrote in message
> news:3947B6EA...@earthling.net...
> > news_surfer wrote:
> >
> > Adrian, I've read several of your books with M. Bauval, and
> > found them quite interesting. However, I cannot _believe_
> > you have actually _SEEN_ the site you're touting here, if
> > the person who posted this "recommendation" is the same
> > Adrian Gilbert.
> >
> things they have. I don't think I would have posted the material on the
news_surfer
>
> They [Wilson and Blackett] repeatedly mention some organization called
CADW,
> without clarifying what this group is. Is that a Welsh
> word/proper name used as a group name, or is it an acronym?
> If it is an acronym, what does it stand for, and who are
> they? Are they a private group, or a government
> organization? How did they get involved in this affair?
>
autonomous non-governmental organization). It is run by government
appointees and has charge over preserving the heritage of Wales. What this
means in effect is that it has control over a large budget, given to it by
the government (this used to be the provenance of the Welsh Office but may
now have been transferred to the new Cardiff Assembly). How this budget is
spent is what is questioned by Wilson and Blackett. If you go to Wales you
will see a heavy bias towards certain "Roman" sites and neglect of Welsh
ones. Another beef of Wilson's is that the CADW quango is run by English
appointees and not Welsh. They therefore have little knowledge and even less
interest in traditional Welsh history. If you really want the low-down on
this I would suggest you contact Alan direct. His Email address can be found
on his website. How CADW spends our money is not a subject that I can really
comment on with any authority. What I do know is that vast amounts of public
money are poured into Wales every year both from the central UK purse and
the EC. This is because it is considered to be a black-spot for unemployment
and therefore eligible for regional aid. Again how this aid money is spent
and whose pockets it ends up in is another contentious issue. Recently there
was a major scandal at Merthyr Tydvil concerning a development company and
there have been others. Alan and Baram are very sceptical of the role of the
Glamorgan Gwent Archaeological Trust Limited, a private company that in
their opinion seems to receive a lot of money for doing very little. Again I
cannot comment on whether this charge is fair as I don't know the facts.
What I do know is that too many Welsh archaeological sites are being left
for despoilation by developers, open cast mining and vandalism. Things seem
to happen in Wales that would be unthinkable here in England.
Adrian Gilbert.
(material snipped)
> Furthermore, one of the pair of gentlemen is not old enough
> to have been investigating _anything_ for 40 years. He is
> considerably younger than Mr. Wilson, judging from the
> rather odd photo of the pair.I seriously doubt they've been
> acquainted for even half that long.
Baram is a lot younger than Alan, though I believe they have been friends
for about 20 years. Between the two of them there is about 60 years of
research. I hasten to add that they are only friends and you should not read
anything into the fact that they are batchelors and share a house.
>
>
> I hope Mr. Wilson's cataract surgery went well. Both my
> parents had the same surgery -- my dad also had a detaching
> retina that was re-attached using laser surgery, and could
> still read quite well at 82; my mother reads quite alot
> still, and has had no other problems with her vision since
> the surgery (she does tend to lose her glasses quite often,
> though!).
>
You will be glad to hear that Alan's eye-surgery went very well and his
sight is now fine for most puposes. When I first met him he was almost
blind. This really is a wonderful technique.
Adrian Gilbert.
robert...@dial.pipex.com
<hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> news_surfer <definite...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> At their website you will find pictures of the REX ARTORIUS FILI
> : MAURICIUS stone and of the Electrum Cross.
>
> I forget -- has anybody ever given a satisfactory for why both the
stone
> and cross use such execrable Latin? I mean, I know that grammatical
> sophistication varied considerably in the post-Classical period, but
> screwing up your second declension nominatives and genitives just
seems so
> ... odd.
And you accused Heather of not understanding irony...
Rob
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
news_surfer
Steff <tym...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:peS15.1063$n32....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> Adrian
>
> I must admit to being somewhat taken aback by the court case items on the
> site. Especially the allegations regarding the Glamorgan Gwent Trust. I
> remember the Western Mail article; and I have to confess it has coloured
my
> attitude towards them (though not their theories regarding Arthur etc).
>
> Do you know if there has been any change in personnel at the Trust? Has
> there been a check made on credentials? I realise you mentioned it in Holy
> Kingdom, but I was unaware of the gravity of the complaints.
I don't know what changes, if any, have been made to the trust. As far as I
know it is still a limited liability company. So perhaps the word "trust" is
inappropriate.
>
> I'm sure Chris Barber would not knowingly plagiarise. At the back of his
> book he discusses, briefly, the Wilson & Blackett ideas - agrees with
some,
> dismisses others.
I am sure he wouldn't either. However, just for the recordWilson and
Blackett published their "King Arthur, King of Gwent and Glamorgan" in 1981.
The copyright notice gives a date of 1980. In this they give details of the
Glamorgan kings and the genealogy of Athrwys, whom they identify as "King
Arthur". (You really should try to get hold of a copy of this book, it is a
treasure trove of information). Their "Artorius Rex Discovered" was
published in 1986. It shows as a frontice-piece the same picture of them
with the Artorius Rex stone that they have put on their website. In autumn
of 1990 their King Arthur Research Foundation (which has members wordwide by
the way) carried out the dig at St Peter's Church on Mynydd y Gaer with Dr
Eric Talbot as archaeologist in charge. I remember reading a Daily Telegraph
article about this some time in 1993. Chris Barber and David Pykitt
published their "Journey to Avalon" in 1993. Barber had earlier supplied
many of the photographs in "Artorius Rex Discovered".
Barber and Pykitt supply a picture of St Peter's super Montem, which they,
like Wilson and Blackett before them, identify with the cor Emrys. Like
Wilson and Blackett they identfy the Ambrosius of legend with Emrys Wledig.
As the caption under the picture they write:
"On Mynydd-y-Gaer (Mountain of the fortress) in Mid Glamorgan is the site of
a hill fort marked on old maps as Caer Caradoc and a short distance away are
the remains of an ancient church which stands of the site of the "Cloister
of Ambrius". This monastic settlement was founded by Ambri or Ambrius, who
is mentioned in the Book of Llandaff. Tref Meibon Ambrus (the Village of the
Sons of Ambrus) was the property of the See of Llandaff and was probably in
the same vicinity.
Ambrius (Emrys Wledig), took over this site and established his
monastery which was known as the cor Emrys and was in later times confused
by Geoffrey of Monmouth with Amesbury, to the east of Salisbury Plain. Today
the ruined Norman church of St. Peter's super Montem stands on the windswept
hill and it is a site of considerable historical importance."
>
It is very strange that Barber and Pickett make no mention here (or
elsewhere in their book) of the 1990 dig at the Church of St Peter's.
Stranger still is that they fail to relate that Wilson and Blackett, in the
"Artorius Rex Rediscovered" had already made the connection between
Mynydd-y-Gaer, Caer Caradoc and the Cor-Emrys. They too, had published the
connection betwen Emrys and Ambrosius a full seven years before "Journey to
Avalon" appeared: "This brings us to a very important matter indeed for
around the period 480 to 500 A.D. the War King or elected chief General was
Emrys Wledig, who the English call Ambrosius Aurelian and after he won his
wars Emrys Wledig erected a monument to the Soldiers on Caer Caradoc. In
Welsh this is the Mwynwent y Milwyr, and there on the western peak of the
Mynydd y Gaer is the remain (sic.) of the ancient Mwynwent y Milwyr.
Unfortunately the Ordinance Survey Office has persisted in placing heavy
concrete markers onto and into the monument, what else can be expected from
British bureucrats?"
In their book Wilson and Blackett detail the logic that led them step by
step to their conclusions that 1) Mynydd y Gaer is to be identified as the
real location of the Caer Caradoc; 2) That the Church of St Peter's is the
Cor Emrys; 3) That Mynydd y Gaer is where the British nobility was
slaughtered at the time of Vortigern; 4) That Ambrosius (Emrys wledig) build
his monument to these fallen warriors there; 4) That King Arthur (Athrwys)
lies buried in the vicinity of this church.
Commentating on Wilson and Blackett's work in "Journey to Avalon" Barber and
Pickett write:
"In Artorius Rex Discovered (1985) Baram Blackett and Alan Wilson claim that
the Western Roman Emperor Magnus Clemens Maximus, the Mascen Wledig of Welsh
tradition, had a son who became Arthur I, king of Greece. Mascen did not
have a son named Arthur but one of his sons Anhun Dunawd (Antonius Donatus)
is called Anhun Rex Graecorum I(Antonius, king of Greece) in De Situ
Brechehiauc No. 10 Genealogy, but Blackett and Wilson failed to notice that
this Anhun, who they claim was Arthur I, was in fact the direct ancestor of
Athrwys ap Meurig, who they refer to as Arthur II."
This is true at the time when they were writing "Artorius Rex Rediscovered"
(1985) Wilson and Blackett were using the genealogy of Athrwys given in "The
Genealogy of Iestin ap Gwrgan", where it is claimed that St Nynniau was the
father of Teithfallt. As Barber must have known, they had already changed
their minds on this and gone over to believing that the Brecon records were
correct in listing Arthur II as being directly descended from Anhun Rex
Graecorum (Arthur I). Certainly they had told me this when I first met them.
What they didn't tell Chris Barber, or for a long time anyone else, was that
they had found a second King Arthur stone, which they believed to be a
memorial to Arthur I, near Atherstone in Warwickshire.
The genealogies of the two kings given by Barber and Pickett are almost
identical to those presented in Wilson and Blackett's earlier works. Since
it had taken Wilson and Blackett years to work this all out one wonders
whether Barber and Pickitt had also spent time gathering the sources and
putting the family tree together. Or had they simply taken over Wilson and
Blackett's work and merely changed a few details? Certainly they had the
material in their hands to do so [Wilson and Blackett's earlier "Arthur,
King of Glamorgan and Gwent" (1980), "Arthur and the Charters of the Kings"
(1980. which contains the Book of Llandaff and the genealogies of Brychan of
Brecon and of Owain son of Hywell Dda) and "Artorius Rex Discovered" (1986)
are listed in the Bibliography] but no attribution is made.
I would agree that Barber and Pickett's book is easier to read than the
pioneering works of Wilson and Blackett. The latter's books are convoluted
and often the threads of their logic are hard to follow. However I believe
they should be given credit for some amazing discoveries and for presenting
this information for the first time.
This will be my last posting to this newsgroup for at least two weeks (Phew
relief all round) as I am off to witness the "Opening of the Stargate". If
this means nothing to you, then may I suggest you (except for Chris Gwinn
who is banned) check out my website at
www.adriangilbert.co.uk
Adrian Gilbert.
>
> news_surfer <definite...@freeuk.com> wrote in message
> news:L4R15.2627$LP4.4...@nnrp4.clara.net...
> >
> > Sarah <soli...@earthling.net> wrote in message
> > news:3947B6EA...@earthling.net...
> > > news_surfer wrote:
> > >
> > > Adrian, I've read several of your books with M. Bauval, and
> > > found them quite interesting. However, I cannot _believe_
> > > you have actually _SEEN_ the site you're touting here, if
> > > the person who posted this "recommendation" is the same
> > > Adrian Gilbert.
> > >
Sarah
thebo...@my-deja.com
>
> Where did they get the "cometary impact" on Britain? The
> rest of Europe, in the cities and towns, was fairly
> literate, and trade was continuing... why are there no
> records, such as in Geoffrey of Tours, or even in the
> Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, that this happened? (I've read
> Geoffrey of Tours and the ASC, if this had been mentioned,
> believe me, I'd have noticed it! The only other _comet_
> that struck this planet that is known of was the one that
> killed off the dinosaurs, last I heard.)
>
>
> Sarah
>
There was a program on Channel 4 in the UK some months back that was
investigating the so-called cometry impact around this time (early 6th
century). It included evidence of famines from around the world,
darkening of sky's and such. Their conclusion - a massive eruption of
Krakatoa.
soli...@earthlingnospam.net
thebo...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Where did they get the "cometary impact" on Britain? The
> > rest of Europe, in the cities and towns, was fairly
> > literate, and trade was continuing... why are there no
> > records, such as in Geoffrey of Tours, or even in the
> > Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, that this happened? (I've read
> > Geoffrey of Tours and the ASC, if this had been mentioned,
> > believe me, I'd have noticed it! The only other _comet_
> > that struck this planet that is known of was the one that
> > killed off the dinosaurs, last I heard.)
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sarah
> >
>
> There was a program on Channel 4 in the UK some months back that was
> investigating the so-called cometry impact around this time (early 6th
> century). It included evidence of famines from around the world,
> darkening of sky's and such. Their conclusion - a massive eruption of
> Krakatoa.
Gee, that's interesting... Krakatoa blew in the late _19th_
century, catastrophically, and obliterated itself in the
process. I think volcanos can only do that _once_, and
anything less than a self-immolating catastrophic eruption
would hardly have affected global climate/weather patterns
on such a scale as to affect the opposite side of the
planet.
Just how did they identify _specifically_ which volcano
blew, considering that we've only got a whole planet
_littered_ with major volcanos, both active and inactive,
any one of which might have been responsible?
thebo...@my-deja.com
soli...@earthlingNOSPAM.net wrote:
>
>
> thebo...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Where did they get the "cometary impact" on Britain? The
> > > rest of Europe, in the cities and towns, was fairly
> > > literate, and trade was continuing... why are there no
> > > records, such as in Geoffrey of Tours, or even in the
> > > Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, that this happened? (I've read
> > > Geoffrey of Tours and the ASC, if this had been mentioned,
> > > believe me, I'd have noticed it! The only other _comet_
> > > that struck this planet that is known of was the one that
> > > killed off the dinosaurs, last I heard.)
> > >
> > >
> > > Sarah
> > >
> >
> > There was a program on Channel 4 in the UK some months back that was
> > investigating the so-called cometry impact around this time (early
6th
> > century). It included evidence of famines from around the world,
> > darkening of sky's and such. Their conclusion - a massive eruption
of
> > Krakatoa.
>
> Gee, that's interesting... Krakatoa blew in the late _19th_
> century, catastrophically, and obliterated itself in the
> process. I think volcanos can only do that _once_, and
> anything less than a self-immolating catastrophic eruption
> would hardly have affected global climate/weather patterns
> on such a scale as to affect the opposite side of the
> planet.
>
> Just how did they identify _specifically_ which volcano
> blew, considering that we've only got a whole planet
> _littered_ with major volcanos, both active and inactive,
> any one of which might have been responsible?
>
Sorry Solitaire, cant remember the details
I think generally from chinese records and research but dont quote me.
No doubt the program will be repeated soon.
As to volcanoes obliterating themselves once only - no idea about that
but probably more than one volcano in that area
Again just guessing though
Dave
jim irvine
>
> In article <3952CDA6...@earthling.net>,
> soli...@earthlingNOSPAM.net wrote:
> >
> >
> > thebo...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > rest of Europe, in the cities and towns, was fairly
> > > > literate, and trade was continuing... why are there no
> > > > records, such as in Geoffrey of Tours, or even in the
> > > > Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, that this happened? (I've read
> > > > Geoffrey of Tours and the ASC, if this had been mentioned,
> > > > believe me, I'd have noticed it! The only other _comet_
> > > > that struck this planet that is known of was the one that
> > > > killed off the dinosaurs, last I heard.)
> > > >
> > > >
quite well dated referring to great noises from the south east (or
Krakatoa direction )
As to Krakatoa itself they investigated C14 samples from above and below
a major ash deposit giving a broad range of about 6000 BC to about 1200
AD so there was a major eruption at some point between those dates. The
people doing the research were vulcanologists and no-one said there
could not be two eruptions - in fact continual volcanic activity over
the centuries have rebuilt much of the island.
There was also evidence from acid levels in the Greenland ice core
dating to around "Arthur's" time as well as extensive evidence from tree
rings of a major climactic effect at the same time.
OK there was no absolute evidence for an eruption of Krakatoa but what
evidence was given was pretty interesting and certainly did not rule it
out.
Jim
soli...@earthlingnospam.net
jim irvine wrote:
> Actually from written records from China and (I think) Java which can be
> quite well dated referring to great noises from the south east (or
> Krakatoa direction).
Hmm... sounds interesting... but one thing: I think _most_
of China is pretty much north, not northwest, of Krakatoa.
Just checked an atlas (thankfully, one that was published in
the 60s and therefore is not _solely_ in metric scale):
Krakatoa is/was at: 6S/105E, in the strait between Sumatra &
Java... the 105th meridian as it runs north thru China
passes west of Chungking & east of Lanchow (old atlas, from
the 60s--the new versions of the names I'm not familiar
with). About 17 degrees worth of China east of that line,
and according to the mileage scale on the page (300 mi/1
in), 900+ miles to the eastern coast. From Chunking to the
Sunda Strait is 2400 miles. That had to be one bitch of a
blow. Wonder where the Chinese texts were compiled...
> As to Krakatoa itself they investigated C14 samples from above and below
> a major ash deposit giving a broad range of about 6000 BC to about 1200
> AD so there was a major eruption at some point between those dates. The
> people doing the research were vulcanologists and no-one said there
> could not be two eruptions - in fact continual volcanic activity over
> the centuries have rebuilt much of the island.
Thera/Santorini is busily rebuilding a small island in the
midst of the crater left from its little temper tantrum.
That one took 5 cubic miles of material out of the middle of
the original island.
> There was also evidence from acid levels in the Greenland ice core
> dating to around "Arthur's" time as well as extensive evidence from tree
> rings of a major climactic effect at the same time.
Which might or might not be due to that particular
eruption. I'll research it at the local library and do a
search online for more data. Thanks!
> OK there was no absolute evidence for an eruption of Krakatoa but what
> evidence was given was pretty interesting and certainly did not rule it
> out.
>
> Jim
Good enough -- enough to make it interesting! Thanks!
TMMatthews99
The great plague or "poisoning" os recorded in the ancient manuscripts so
readily ignored by all you Arthurian mystics!
Don't kid yourself that Alana nd Baram Dreamt up this scenario - Dr. Klube at
Oxford Uni is just one proponent of the cometary fragment theory. These are
small and often localised impacts....
For heaven's sake read their books before passing cheap comment!
Tim M - Arthurian Research Foundation.
jbmon...@aol.de
> Arthurian researchers will be interested to hear that Alan Wilson and Baram
> Blackett have a new website. This is at www.kingarthur.fsnet.co.uk . Here
> you will find details of the genealogies of the 2 King Arthurs described in
> our book "The Holy Kingdom" as well as much other material based on their
>
> everything) to see that their researches are original and far-reaching in
> many fields. This is a website worthy of close scrutiny and will explain why
> there has been such a block on true Arthurian research in Wales.
>
> Adrian Gilbert.
illuminati...@gmail.com
-- "Just to add a little information: in the Declaration of Arbroath (1320), it is written of Scotland's Scythian ancestors. Part of Scythia was Assyria (Syria, Hebrew Tribe of Simeon). It was accepted knowledge, but is little known today."
-- "My results (DNA test) support the assertions made by the authors of this book (The King Arthur Conspiracy by Grant Berkley, ISBN 978-1-4120-2642-0). This will be the undoing of the liars. DNA is science and it has not the capability of lying. It does however, expose the liars for what they are."
-- "This situation (the absurdity of the lies and deception) was bizarre as Austin Layard had discovered the great archives of the Assyrian Emperors at the ruins of Nineveh in 1846 .... These stones named the Ten Tribes deported from Israel as the 'Khumry' and this is still the name of the British Khumry who are misnamed as 'Welsh' by the English (who are NOT the original 'Brit-ish' of 'Ish-ra-el')."
-- "Let me, as a Sephardic (Spanish) Jew, give you a clue about life .... The Ashkenazi (Bolsheviks) are not real Jews, which might explain why they are Talmudic Zionists and we are not." -- Real Torah Jews (Hebrew mtDNA):
Pictures can't be posted? Try this link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YBa2yp1ls3QnLPABB21kGynKQGYAA1J3/view?usp=sharing
Regards.
illuminati...@gmail.com
> Arthurian researchers will be interested to hear that Alan Wilson and Baram
> Blackett have a new website. This is at www.kingarthur.fsnet.co.uk . Here
> you will find details of the genealogies of the 2 King Arthurs described in
> our book "The Holy Kingdom" as well as much other material based on their
> researches. At their website you will find pictures of the REX ARTORIUS FILI
> MAURICIUS stone and of the Electrum Cross.
>
> You don't have to agree with their conclusions (I don't agree with
> everything) to see that their researches are original and far-reaching in
> many fields. This is a website worthy of close scrutiny and will explain why
> there has been such a block on true Arthurian research in Wales.
>
> Adrian Gilbert.
-- "Just to add a little information: in the Declaration of Arbroath (1320), it is written of Scotland's Scythian ancestors. Part of Scythia was Assyria (Syria, Hebrew Tribe of Simeon). It was accepted knowledge, but is little known today."
-- "My results (DNA test) support the assertions made by the authors of this book (The King Arthur Conspiracy by Grant Berkley, ISBN 978-1-4120-2642-0). This will be the undoing of the liars. DNA is science and it has not the capability of lying. It does however, expose the liars for what they are."
-- "This situation (the absurdity of the lies and deception) was bizarre as Austin Layard had discovered the great archives of the Assyrian Emperors at the ruins of Nineveh in 1846 .... These stones named the Ten Tribes deported from Israel as the 'Khumry' and this is still the name of the British Khumry who are misnamed as 'Welsh' by the English (who are NOT the original 'Brit-ish' of 'Ish-ra-el')."
-- "Let me, as a Sephardic (Spanish) Jew, give you a clue about life .... The Ashkenazi (Bolsheviks) are not real Jews, which might explain why they are Talmudic Zionists and we are not." -- Real Torah Jews (Hebrew mtDNA):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YBa2yp1ls3QnLPABB21kGynKQGYAA1J3/view?usp=sharing
The Science of Total Deception:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-vNkFNtJTWLWndwekI0X0hGeG8/view?usp=sharing
Complete Document Archive (98MB Download):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XSmtfSNxYL1JuZBg0mqhlYaclxzIv-wK/view?usp=sharing
Regards.
luke...@gmail.com
Hello
Does anyone have a email address for Alan Wilson or Baram Blackett. I am desperate to contact them to try and arrange speaking engagements. This info has to get out to the Welsh people and to the world.
Thanks
luke...@gmail.com
> Arthurian researchers will be interested to hear that Alan Wilson and Baram
> Blackett have a new website. This is at www.kingarthur.fsnet.co.uk . Here
> you will find details of the genealogies of the 2 King Arthurs described in
> our book "The Holy Kingdom" as well as much other material based on their
> researches. At their website you will find pictures of the REX ARTORIUS FILI
> MAURICIUS stone and of the Electrum Cross.
>
> You don't have to agree with their conclusions (I don't agree with
> everything) to see that their researches are original and far-reaching in
> many fields. This is a website worthy of close scrutiny and will explain why
> there has been such a block on true Arthurian research in Wales.
>
> Adrian Gilbert.
patrick...@gmail.com
wayne titus
> Hi I live in blaina if you want a pair of eyes and legs to go out and look for you I offer my service such as it is diolch