Mark Barton & jehovah's "justice"
Tallyman
>
> man..you've got it hard aginst the JW's don't you ?
>
> Mellow out...lifes too short to hate....
>
Life was FAR too short for jehovah's Witness-trained
Mark Barton's VICTIMS in hot 'Lanta, last week.
Hey Hackman,
Mark Barton was a Hack Man six years ago.
He hacked his wife and mother-in-law
to death with a meat cleaver.
That was his warm-up for Mass Murder.
jehovah's Witnesses Kult Doktrine provided him
the twisted rationale to shorten the lives
of the 'Worldlies' who the Watchtower
taught him to HATE!
And to think Barton is his 'Last Letter'
even had the idea that jehovah-of-the-Watchtower
might let him into the "next life" to be with
his children.
Hell, he'd probably already learned from his jW Teacher
that Adolph Hitler would be getting a resurrection
into jehovah's New Order. YES! It's true!
And to think Der Fuehrer talked frequently of,
and promoted his New Order and The 1000 Year Reich.
Barton figgered if this Mass Killer Hitler could
BUTCHER SIX MILLION JEWS and still get a resurrection
into jehovah's New Order,
then he oughta be able to whack his wife and mother-in-law,
and his second wife, and his son, and his daughter...
okay, AND a dozen more downtown...
then he STILL should be able to make it into
jehovah's Paradise.
He reasoned that since his body count
did not even come clsoe to matching Hitler's-
then jehovah's "justice" should permit his entry
into the "Paradise" to play with the tigers and bears
with his resurrected kids.
And Barton rationalized that IF he was going to do this deed,
then he better do if BEFORE he became a baptized OFFICIAL jW.
Barton knew the Watchtower was the 'Second Chance' Religion,
but he still figgered he better not take a chance.
TT
> Prominent Bethelite <squi...@echelon.alias.net> wrote in message
> news:948bb01bb92af12c...@anonymous.poster...
> > SOME ADVICE FOR THE GUN LOBBY AND ANTI-CULT GROUPS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I hold no brief for the Gun Lobby, but you are going to get a lot of stick
> > over the Mark Orrin Barton mass-killings. What PROMPTED this man to KILL
> > HIS FAMILY (with a hammer) and then shoot others?
> >
> > This post may be of help to you. He was IMO probably associated in some
> > way with the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the killings and letters then "fit"
> > PERFECTLY. Read on and you will see why.
> >
> > You should circulate this communication to those who can benefit from it -
> > complete with the links below (which give useful information about the
> > beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, and have the force of Scripture for them -
> > OR MORE!). Circulate it to other NGs where it may be relevant.
> >
> > ENSURE THAT THE BLAME GOES WHERE IT IS DESERVED, WITH MARK ORRIN BARTON
> > (DEC'D) AND WITH THOSE (IF ANY) WHO INSPIRED HIM TO DO THIS EVIL THING.
> >
> > I believe A FULL INVESTIGATION into the JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES by the Police
> > and other State Authorities (and Tax Authorities - they claim Charitable
> > Status and take hundreds of millions of dollars worldwide as a result
> > which the taxman has to take from you instead) should be instituted ALL
> > OVER THE WORLD.
> >
> >
> > Here are the letters by the Atlanta Mass-Killer Mark Orrin Barton:
> > http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/30/shooting.letters.02/index.html
> > http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/30/shooting.letters.02/index2.html
> >
> > If you knew something about Jehovah's Witnesses, you will already have
> > observed that IN THESE LETTERS Barton uses many of the Jehovah's
> > Witnesses' Cult's buzz-phrases:
> >
> > 'system of things'
> > 'hate this life'
> > 'second chance'
> > 'Jehovah's willing'
> > ..etc.
> >
> > 'system of things' is a BIG ONE, and a GIVEAWAY. All the others are too.
> > They occur hundreds of times in Jehovah's Witnesses published propaganda.
> >
> > See my sig below for some of the Insane and Dangerous Beliefs of Jehovah's
> > Witnesses (The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society).
> >
> > Was Mark Barton a Jehovah's Witness?
> > A former Jehovah's Witness, or studying with them, or had studies with
> > them?
> > Was he related to Jehovah's Witnesses? The fear of the father mentioned
> > in his note...
> > Was he someone "inspired" by Jehovah's Witnesses and / or by their god,
> > Jehovah-of-the-Watchtower?
> >
> > The JW-link certainly fits. We shall see whether any of these are true as
> > more information comes out.
> >
> > Barton speaks to someone whose "care" he leaves his dead family in.
> > Presumably God. Was his note a last prayer to Jehovah God?
> >
> > Barton speaks of killing his children to spare them "the suffering that is
> > ahead"... was he referring to the Armageddon? The Jehovah's Witnesses'
> > Cult have predicted Armageddon in 1914, 1918, 1925, 1940, 1975 and..
> > tomorrow (always tomorrow - see the List). Barton used a hammer on his
> > wife and kids. What Evil could justify this?
> >
> > Jehovah's Witnesses' literature is obsessed with DEATH and KILLING (by
> > God). Please refer to the List at
> > http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/the_list.html
> > http://members.xoom.com/Gator999/
> > http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/engels/engindex.htm
> > and to the quotation given at the end (maybe someone was about to leave
> > the JWs? The wife, taking the children? In that case, Barton could well
> > have been, at least in his own mind, FOLLOWING OFFICIAL PRINTED ADVICE
> > TOJEHOVAH'S WITNESSES (see end).
> >
> > Jehovah's Witnesses fanatically believe only true JWs alive at Armageddon
> > will survive it: Jehovah God will KILL everyone else (over 5,000,000,000
> > people, including 2,000,000,000 CHILDREN). Also, they believe the chance
> > of getting to Paradise is GREATER for those who die BEFORE Armageddon
> > rather than in it (not just JWs, etc.).
> >
> > So, Barton would actually be helping the people he MURDERED to increase
> > their chance of getting to PARADISE.
> >
> > Would this be the first time a Jehovah's Witness has killed his or her
> > children to "spare them" from having to go through the Watchtower
> > Armageddon... and to kill them off BEFORE that day so they will get a
> > resurrection into the Watchtower Paradise?
> >
> > ..and to kill them at an early age, before they grow into the "age of
> > accountability" which would guarantee
> > their execution at Armageddon if they were not good little Jehovah's
> > witnesses at that precise starting moment?
> >
> > ..and to kill them if there was a POSSIBILITY that they might be put into
> > a WORLDLY foster home, or anyone else "worldly", which also would
> > guarantee their execution at Armageddon-of-the-Watchtower?
> >
> > NO, IT WOULD NOT BE THE FIRST TIME. This is part of the sick, twisted
> > reasoning of some Jehovah's witness parents. Christine Callaghan
> > (unconnected to the above, but has written about her ordeal as a Jehovah's
> > Witness) was a JW who LEFT the cult. Her best friend before leaving (upon
> > leaving you are SHUNNED - no JW can talk to you, on pain of being SHUNNED
> > themselves - the exclusion for VERY VERY close family is limited and
> > grudging) - of course a Jehovah's Witness - RECOMMENDED what Christine
> > should DO to her three small children:-
> > "Take them out in the backyard and blow their heads off with a shotgun,
> > because that way they may get a resurrection into the New Order since you
> > are now having doubts about the Watchtower and are considering
> > disassociating yourself (Leaving the JWs) and YOU won't be making it into
> > Paradise, so instead of dragging your children to death at Armageddon with
> > you, you should do the merciful thing now by killing them all!"
> > This account is TRUE, and not inconsistent with JW teachings.
> >
> >
> > To me, Guns are a lesser evil than Jehovah's Witnesses (The Watchtower
> > Bible & Tract Society). I give the Gun Lobby this information so they can
> > ensure the PHILOSOPHY BEHIND THE TRIGGER (once found) is brought to proper
> > account.
> >
> > I give this to anti-Cult groups to use as they see fit.
> >
> > I give this to Law Enforcement in the hope they INVESTIGATE.
> >
> > I give this to the rest of you so you know the WAYS of the WITNESSES.
> >
> > You should circulate this communication to those who can benefit from it -
> > complete with the links below (which give useful information about the
> > beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses).
> >
> > ENSURE THAT THE BLAME GOES WHERE IT IS DESERVED, WITH MARK ORRIN BARTON
> > (DEC'D) AND WITH THOSE (IF ANY) WHO INSPIRED HIM TO DO THIS EVIL THING.
> >
> > I believe A FULL INVESTIGATION into the JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES by the Police
> > and other State Authorities (and Tax Authorities - they claim Charitable
> > Status) should be instituted ALL OVER THE WORLD.
> >
> > I do not know for sure. But the Jehovah's Witnesses connection and
> > philosophy sure fits ALL THE FACTS.
> >
> > I want the ACTIVITIES AND BELIEFS of this DANGEROUS, MANIPULATIVE,
> > MIND-CONTROL ORGANIZATION brought RIGHT OUT INTO THE OPEN.
> >
> > In shock, horror and deep remorse for the families and friends of those
> > MURDERED in the name of "Jehovah".
> >
> >
> >
> > Prominent Bethelite
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > A LIST OF AMAZING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' CLAIMS, BELIEFS & PREDICTIONS
> > http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/the_list.html
> > http://members.xoom.com/Gator999/
> > http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/engels/engindex.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "HOW JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SHOULD DEAL WITH CLOSE FAMILY MEMBERS LEAVING THE
> > CULT"
> >
> > When speaking how to deal with a close family who are leaving the JW cult,
> > here is the Jehovah's Witnesses' official written advice (EMPHASIS is by
> > me):
> >
> > "We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of
> > our fleshly family relationship could be -- EXTERMINATED -- for apostasy
> > from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was --
> > ORDERED -- ... 'Thou shalt surely -- KILL -- him; -- THY HAND --
> > shall be first upon him to -- PUT HIM TO DEATH -- "
> >
> > A warning, in case the magazine gets into legal trouble, it later says:
> > "Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live ... we
> > can take action against apostates only to a certain extent"
> >
> > All this is from their official magazine, The WatchTower, November 15
> > 1952. This has NEVER been retracted.
> >
> > In a Court in the U.S. (NEW YORK KING'S COUNTY CLERKS'S COURT RECORD 1940
> > vol II 795) the soon-to-be President of the Jehovah's Witnesses declared
> > ON SOLEMN OATH that the EDITOR of this magazine was JEHOVAH GOD. The
> > magazine contents are TOTALLY binding upon all Jehovah's Witnesses and, in
> > practice, have MORE force than the Bible for them as THEY INTERPRET
> > SCRIPTURE and Jehovah's Witnesses who do not FOLLOW ALL THEIR BELIEFS -
> > specifically the "UNIQUE" ones - are removed ("disfellowshiped") and
> > subjected to the the disciplinary regime just mentioned.
> >
> > Was BARTON following this advice? Time will tell.
> >
> > HELP GET THIS SICK ORGANIZATION BROUGHT UNDER CONTROL. FREEDOM OF
> > RELIGION IS ONE THING. CULT MADNESS AND IS ANOTHER.
> >
Denis
First Mark Barton wasn't one of Jehovah's Witnesses.. he have had
contact with them. Second what about the thousands of 'Bartons'
from catholic, protestant or muslim Kults which kill tousands of
people every week around the world.
The religion has nothing to do with the action of one single
individual which even isn't a member of the so-called Kult.
If you are trying to set out a point then please come up with
something that really make sense. Because the way you see it,
is that everyone who kills belongs to a kult or religion which
made them do it.... Do you belief this Crap yourself?
Don't you have a job? Or a life? You act like you know everything...
you want to change peoples thoughts..... well let me tell you... you
don't know shit!
Instead of this rubbish.. please study your bible... Get a Life!
Greetz,
Denis The Netherlands
Hackman
By-the-way...your line here
> Barton figured if this Mass Killer Hitler could
> BUTCHER SIX MILLION JEWS and still get a resurrection
> into Jehovah's New Order,
> then he oughta be able to whack his wife and mother-in-law,
tells more about you than you'd wish...
didn't you know that Hitler killed JW's also?
Man...carrying that much hate must really be tough.
Tallyman <I_Am@Odds_With_WT.Org> wrote in message
news:37A87C1E.D7D92FC@Odds_With_WT.Org...
Craig Christian
: contact with them. Second what about the thousands of 'Bartons'
: from catholic, protestant or muslim Kults which kill tousands of
: people every week around the world.
Since they do it, that makes more acceptable? Wake up.
The only point being made here is that JW's are just
the same as *other* people. They are no better like
you are led to believe at the meetings.
JW's have problems. A lot of them.
: The religion has nothing to do with the action of one single
: individual which even isn't a member of the so-called Kult.
What they teach and the affect it can have has very much
to do with the actions of its members for good *or* bad.
: you want to change peoples thoughts..... well let me tell you... you
: don't know shit!
That was mature.
Craig C.
Huggie Bear
> "Hackman" <Ha...@man.net> wrote...
>
> Are you a JW? If yes (surely not) you are not untypically ignorant of
> your own teachings. It is STAGGERING how little JWs know about what their
> own religion teaches (till someone likes me PROVES it to them..)
>
> Let me reply on the more probable basis that you are not a JW. :-)
> I understand you would find it almost IMPOSSIBLE to believe that a major
> worldwide Cult with 6m+ committed servants could have formal beliefs as
> kooky as these ones. But I know, they do.
>
> So, sit tight - and you might learn something.
>
> I have posted several longer answers in alt.religion.jehovahs-witn etc. -
> but if you are reading only al-2 or at-c, you will miss them. Join arj-w
> and ... click! :-)
>
> >> Barton figured if this Mass Killer Hitler could
> >> BUTCHER SIX MILLION JEWS and still get a resurrection
> >> into Jehovah's New Order,
> >> then he oughta be able to whack his wife and mother-in-law,
> >
> >tells more about you than you'd wish...
> >didn't you know that Hitler killed JW's also?
>
>
> YOU ARE MISSING THE WHOLE POINT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE DEGREE
> OF JW KOOKERY!!!
>
no, the point is the fact that to you this is just another cult...this gives
you enough reasons to make them benith you....this is a dangerious posistion
to be in....one step from calling for the death of JW's!
Hate is hate, no matter what it is you are hating..
By-the-way, I know a bit more about the JW's then you might think.
No, I am not a Witness....how about you Brother ? 8;)
>
> Tallyman's logic is sound. Here, I'll explain it.
>
> Official Published CURRENT Jehovah's Witnesses TEACHINGS & DOCTRINE (to
> them, like, scripture - carries equal force, if disbelieved/challenged,
> you are thrown out and shunned for life) are used re who gets to earthly
> paradise after Armageddon. (though they are now told to be evasive in
> Court about them - just to say it is all down to Jehovah - and not admit
> their
>
> Let us take two people. One real, one make-believe.
>
> Adolf Hitler and Mother Gabrielle.
>
> We all know about Adolf Hitler. Let us (reasonably) assume he NEVER had a
> real chance to hear "the good news" from the JWs.
>
> Mother Gabrielle (imaginary) is one of the successors of saintly Mother
> Teresa. Gabrielle is a really, really GOOD KIND LOVING CARING person
> devoting her life to charity and good works. Lives in a hut. Slaves all
> day. Goes hungry so the poor can eat. Ill from something dreadful which
> she caught working with the sick. Two years back she was approached by an
> evangelizing JW, but politely told them she had no interest in their
> beliefs (of which she already knew a little, considered them laughably
> selfish and unbiblical).
>
> NOW ALONG COMES ARMAGEDDON (ALWAYS "ANY DAY NOW" PER THE JWs - see The
> List referenced below for dozens of proofs) - Gabrielle is still around
> when it starts (Hitler died in 1945).
>
>
> GABRIELLE will be DESTROYED forever - NO QUESTION.
> But HITLER may well get Resurrected.
>
> And that is a PROVABLE FROM:
>
> ****************
> OFFICIAL CURRENT
> DOCTRINE OF THE
> JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
> ****************
>
> SUMMARY:
> "2nd chance"
> Hitler: QUITE POSSIBLY
> Gabrielle: NO
>
>
> Now, go figure!
>
> >Man...carrying that much hate must really be tough.
>
> Bearing in mind the above, your comment is unsound. But you did not have
> the info. ;-)
>
> >Tallyman <I_Am@Odds_With_WT.Org> wrote in message
> >news:37A87C1E.D7D92FC@Odds_With_WT.Org...
> >> Hackman wrote:
>
> Read my recent posts in arj-w titled "Mass Murderer a Jehovah's Witness
> "trying to do his best" ?"
> Log on to the news group. You may learn something you preferred not to.
>
>
> Love
>
> Prominent Bethelite.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> THE LIST OF AMAZING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' CLAIMS, BELIEFS & PREDICTIONS
> http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/the_list.html
> http://members.xoom.com/Gator999/list6.htm
> http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
>
>
> RE THE TRAGIC BARTON/ATLANTA MASS-MURDERS
> -----------------------------------------
> What is known for SURE (Newsweek, TIME, IHT, WP, NYT etc.) is that Barton
> was studying with the Witnesses for most/all of this year, he was in other
> trouble, his wife refused to have anything to do with Jehovah's Witnesses
> herself (he wanted her to study and be baptised) and also for the children
> whom she wanted with her (they had parted, the reunion was an attempt for
> him to work things out), and he killed his wife and kids (and later
> others) leaving notes:
> http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/30/shooting.letters.02/index.html
> http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/30/shooting.letters.02/index2.html
> 'system of things'
> 'hate this life'
> 'second chance' (in the resurrection / Paradise)
> 'Jehovah's willing'
> And other JW themes.
> It is safe to assume Barton was depressed and had some mental instability
> (some of it pre-dating the JW contact, though the Armageddon-mania is
> hardly a calming influence for most, let alone such a troubled one).
>
> JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES (JW, WTBTS) TEACHINGS AND "GIVENS"
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> JW/WTBTS Rule (1) FOR PEOPLE **ALIVE WHEN** ARMAGEDDON BEGINS: Only ones
> not
> DESTROYED will be JWs and their minor children (no, not all JWs, only
> good=marked Jonadabs('other sheep') + Anointed Remnant, but this detail is
> irrelevant) (Doctrine has varied re those who did not get a chance to hear
> the message - but irrelevant here, as all concerned in family DID).
>
> JW/WTBTS Rule (2) FOR PEOPLE WHO **DIED BEFORE** ARMAGEDDON BEGAN: MANY
> more
> righteous ones besides just "JWs and minor children" will be resurrected
> after
> Armageddon - and most/all 'children'
>
> JW/WTBTS Rule (3) THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> I can PROVE by reference to published JW=WTBTS material every part of the
> "Rules for Surviving Armageddon".
> Barton knows the above. You get to be taught these things VERY QUICKLY in
> the indoctrination process ("Bible Study"). Armageddon is ALWAYS
> Recruitment Tool Number 1 used by Jehovah's Witnesses. Barton had a
> varied job history, was computer literate, a day-trader too - and may have
> already got away with murder - HE WAS NO FOOL also KNOWS and believes:-
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> (4) 2nd wife will NEVER be a Jehovah's Witness - she refuses even a bible
> study - or let him influence the MINOR children's religion (father-in-law
> has reported to police they were fighting about this, and we know who wins
> custody battles - a MALE JW has NO chance, especially with his known
> history of problems and even good suspicion he murdered his 1st wife
> (even, the insurance company refused to pay him the money))
>
> (5) Armageddon is JUST ROUND THE CORNER. IMMINENT. COMING NOW. COULD BE
> ANY MONTH NOW. ONLY GOD KNOWS EXACTLY WHEN, BUT ALL THE SIGNS ARE THERE!
> (For 20-30-40 such references, look at The List in my sig - and such
> warnings are still currently made in the field and in literature).
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> The note (reference above) is confused BUT makes it clear Barton, while
> distressed, is trying to do what HE SEES as the right thing to do, what he
> has thought about. He is not trying to punish or get revenge against his
> family (or those who love them). HE IS TRYING TO DO GOOD AS HE SEES IT.
>
> IS IT NOT MORE THAN JUST PLAUSIBLE THAT BARTON SOULD HAVE REASONED (given
> the sentiments expressed in his letter), in this sequence and over some
> period of time... (refer to above numbered points):
>
> By (5), Armageddon is IMMINENT, likely any time; and
>
> By (4), it is a long time before the children become adults (and who knows
> whether they will want to become JWs then anyway after having
> indoctrinated by mon etc. in the ways of outsiders), so Armageddon is
> likely first and in any way Rule (1) will apply and..
>
> By (1), Kids (and mom, if that mattered) will be KILLED at Armageddon.
> GONE. FOREVER. No question. He can do nothing to stop that...
> helpless... he has tried arguing, convincing, leaving, returning, all
> failed... MY GOD MY KIDS WILL BE DESTROYED - those terrible pictures of
> Armageddon - unless... can I think of anything... ahhh;
>
> By (2), if the kids were dead before Armageddon, they would surely be
> resurrected and get that "second chance", "Jehovah willing" (do read his
> letter)
>
> By (3), Barton should not, must not kill. If he does, HE is damned (maybe
> he cannot admit that, but he knows it). BUT HE LOVES his kids MORE, and
> would sacrifice himself for the kids, as would many parents. (even his own
> chance for Salvation - whatever, ANY COST, his sin of murder is not passed
> on to his children).
>
> SO, to ensure the KIDS escape this wicked "system of things" - "hate this
> life", and KIDS get that "second chance" for Paradise, "Jehovah
willing"...
> Hammer-blow. Hammer-blow. Hammer-blow. Dead kids, dead mom.
> And a terrible tragedy.
>
> And a **LOGICAL** APPLICATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES TEACHINGS by Barton.
> Sure, he ignored Rule (3). BUT HE WAS BEING UNSELFISH, LOSING HIS OWN
> CHANCE FOR PARADISE FOR **THE KIDS**.
> KIDS' INTERESTS FIRST. An instinct PARENTS NATURALLY HAVE.
>
> No suggestion such an outcome was INTENDED by the WTBTS. Of course it was
> NOT.
>
> But when you TWIST the Bible to suit your ideological ends,
> especially relating to the apocalypse, and MAKE UP RULES THAT GOD IS
> SUPPOSED TO HAVE MADE ABOUT WHO SURVIVES AND HOW, what you get may yield
> rotten fruits. Like the acts of Barton.
>
> BARTON ACTED (GIVEN HIS ACCEPTANCE OF JW BELIEFS) SO AS TO MAXIMISE THE
> SURVIVAL CHANCES FOR THE CHILDREN HE LOVED - WHATEVER THE SPIRITUAL COST
> TO HIMSELF. ALL PER JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES TEACHINGS.
>
> Proof that JWs advocate lying? See Jehovah's Witness Official definition
> of "a lie":-
>
> [a lie is] "a false statement by one to another one who is entitled to
> hear and to know the truth, and which false statement tends to work injury
> to the other" {'Riches', written by then President of the Jehovah's
> Witnesses, 1936, page 177} [so other "lies" are not lies!- only lie if
> other is entitled to know!!]
>
> Also lying is justified, even promoted, officially in JW literature in
> 1956, 1957, 1960 AND 1988 (see my Sig for references). Disgusting,
> really. And as to hating..
>
> "Haters of God and His people [Jehovah's Witnesses] are to be hated .. We
> must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active
> aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any
> haters of God are not fit to live on His beautiful earth. The earth will
> be rid of the wicked.." {WatchTower Oct 1 1952 596 etc.} ["His People" are
> CLEARLY and UNIQUELY identified as Jehovah's Witnesses in the rest of the
> article]
>
> Oh, the Jehovah's Witnesses President (to-be) declared on oath in Court
> that the official JW publication quoted above and later on down WAS EDITED
> BY JEHOVAH GOD. (For references giving proof - see my sig).
>
> And to mental problems - official report by JW-Psychologist Doctor Onoda
> to the
> Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body:
>
> "I would like to consider ANOTHER reason why Jehovah's people have MENTAL
> PROBLEMS .. Jehovah's true organization .. can contribute to or accelerate
> an existing problem rather than making it better.. It is guilt.. greater
> psychological pressure.. We cannot think a wrong thought without feeling
> guilty. If the Witness becomes unbalanced, he/she may become overly
> despondent and feel like a failure because perfection cannot be attained
> . some of the 'Friends' try so hard to please Jehovah that they become
> MENTALLY ILL."
>
> AND ON KILLING (emphases mine):
>
> "We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of
> our fleshly family relationship could be -- EXTERMINATED -- for apostasy
> from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was --
> ORDERED -- ... 'Thou shalt surely -- KILL -- him; -- THY HAND --
> shall be first upon him to -- PUT HIM TO DEATH -- " {WatchTower,
> November 15
> 1952} [later on they warn not to kill for various reasons - BUT THIS COMES
> FIRST! Oh - Barton had this on the Publications C.D. he was given when
> studying - he was quite a computer man. Also the HATE quote above ws
> there]
>
>
> And, totally sickening how most JWs seem only concerned at the collateral
> AND legal damage (liability to victims from acts logically stemming from
> JW 'preogramming') to their Watchtower Society, rather than expressing
> regret at the tragedy.
>
> IN DEEPEST SYMPATHY FOR THOSE KILLED BY "JW-STUDENT" MASS-MURDERER
> BARTON...
>
The *MIGHTY* (yet modest) Two Tub Man
>> YOU ARE MISSING THE WHOLE POINT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE DEGREE
>> OF JW KOOKERY!!!
>>
>
>no, the point is the fact that to you this is just another cult...this gives
>you enough reasons to make them benith you....this is a dangerious posistion
>to be in....one step from calling for the death of JW's!
>
>Hate is hate, no matter what it is you are hating..
[big snip]
Ah, so basically if you say that your head is made out of blue cheese and
I say that such a belief is idiotic, then I hate you and want to send you
to the gas ovens. Yeah, right.
There's just no point in using logic with a believer.
your pal,
The *MIGHTY* (yet modest) Two Tub Man
Denis
Bethelite) wrote:
>den...@freemail.nl wrote... [extracts]
>>Bally...Takky... Hee Takkyman...
>>Do you belief this Crap yourself?
>>Don't you have a job? Or a life?
>>well let me tell you... you don't know shit!
>>Get a life!
>>Instead of this rubbish..
>
>Denis, do you realize what you sound like?
Yes I Do,
>A good publisher for Jehovah's Witnesses ?
>And, not one word of sorrow for the loved ones of the Atlanta victims of
>keen JW-student Barton.
I am not one of Jehovah's witnesses... i'll smoke cigarettes,and watch
this newgroup which isn't preferred to do when you are a Witness.
Besides of that.. I believe that Jehovah(name of God) will take care
of the victims and make it right in the future. For the families of
this victims is this a tragedy.
>
>Damned, as usual, out of their own mouths. Follow what you have been
>instructed - keep silent on the Internet. The bosses in Brooklyn know
>what idiots you make of yourselves only too well. Do keep arguing. It
>helps keep the matter in the public eye. Thanks. ;-)
I have no Boss in Brooklyn and as far as i am concerned we keep this
religion in the open eye. My pleasure ;-)
By the way.. the WTBTS is not the KGB.. they dont have to watch..
because Jehovah does... you can fool any man.. but you can't fool god.
I can see that you dont belief in him.. you show no respect for
righteous people.
>>First Mark Barton wasn't one of Jehovah's Witnesses.. he have had
>>contact with them.
>
>Technicality. He had been doing a bible study with them FOR SIX MONTHS,
>intended to get baptised AND was FIGHTING to get his wife studying and
>baptised and the children involved.
In six months you dont know enough.. Jehovah's Witnesses are learning
their whole life... wat is six months.. one hour in the week? nothing
most studies takes years to at the end get baptised.
> She refused and left, and that is one
>of the main things they bitterly argued about (contact chain to
>Father-in-law has been established via the press).
So.. she left and he'll freaked but what has that to do with the WTS
> Barton Knew the
>terminology - believed the teachings - swallowed them all - CLEAR from the
>letters.
What is wrong with that?
>
>>Second what about the thousands of 'Bartons'
>>from catholic, protestant or muslim Kults which kill tousands of
>>people every week around the world.
>
>NOT following current doctrine of their religions. See below.
>
>>The religion has nothing to do with the action of one single
>>individual which even isn't a member of the so-called Kult.
>
>See below.
>
>>If you are trying to set out a point then please come up with
>>something that really make sense.
>
That don't impresses me much.... all blabla from your site.... the
religion of JW's has nothing to do with it. It were financial
problems, marriage problems, stress and god knows what more.
One Brow
femin...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:22:53 -0500, "Huggie Bear" <Be...@Huggie.net>
wrote:
>
> >> THE DEGREE OF JW KOOKERY!!!
> >>
> >
> >no, the point is the fact that to you this is just another
> >cult...this gives you enough reasons to make them benith
> >you....this is a dangerious posistion
> >to be in....one step from calling for the death of JW's!
> >
> >Hate is hate, no matter what it is you are hating..
>
>
> Ah, so basically if you say that your head is made out of
> blue cheese and I say that such a belief is idiotic, then
> I hate you and want to send you to the gas ovens. Yeah, right.
>
> There's just no point in using logic with a believer.
>
decide that so quickly, so here goes some logic.
It is true that Huggie Bear misunderstands PB. PB does not
feel JWs are "just another cult", but in fact claims to be
in the midst of the JW hierarchy, and demonstrates a
singular hatred of the WTB^TS and JW doctrine.
You are incorrect in stating that PB is merely pointing out
idiocy in a belief. The fact is, PB is taking part of the
belief, discarding anything that would moderate a position,
exaggerating the remainder, and presenting it as if it were
JW belief. This is an act of hatred, not logic.
As an example, Catholics used to believe that children who
died without being baptized, with achieving a certain level
of ability to choose, and without committing a mortal sin
would wind up in a place called Limbo, while if allowed to
grow into adults, they could easily wind up in eternal
conscious torture (ECT). PB does the equivalent of saying,
"This doctrine implies Catholics should kill the children
of all non-Catholic families, so their children won't be in
ECT." Just as this quote would show hatred toward Catholocism,
so PB's example shows genuine hatred.
> your pal,
> The *MIGHTY* (yet modest) Two Tub Man
>
--
One Brow
"Come now, and let us reason together."
Is. 1:18 (KJV)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Huggie Bear
The *MIGHTY* (yet modest) Two Tub Man <femin...@bigfoot.com> wrote in
message news:37b00e6e....@news.sprint.ca...
> On Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:22:53 -0500, "Huggie Bear" <Be...@Huggie.net> wrote:
>
>
DEGREE
> >> OF JW KOOKERY!!!
> >>
> >
> >no, the point is the fact that to you this is just another cult...this
gives
> >you enough reasons to make them benith you....this is a dangerious
posistion
> >to be in....one step from calling for the death of JW's!
> >
> >Hate is hate, no matter what it is you are hating..
>
>
> Ah, so basically if you say that your head is made out of blue cheese and
> I say that such a belief is idiotic, then I hate you and want to send you
> to the gas ovens. Yeah, right.
>
> There's just no point in using logic with a believer.
>
a "believer ? So, if you can't back up your posistion, you make me a
"believer"
See...you just made my point for me...isn't this almost like calling me a
"nigger" in your world ?
Ahhh....guess the lights so bright in your eyes you just can't see it huh ?
The *MIGHTY* (yet modest) Two Tub Man
>> There's just no point in using logic with a believer.
>>
>So I guess that makes you a believer? Well, I shouldn't
>decide that so quickly, so here goes some logic.
>grow into adults, they could easily wind up in eternal
>conscious torture (ECT). PB does the equivalent of saying,
>"This doctrine implies Catholics should kill the children
>of all non-Catholic families, so their children won't be in
>ECT." Just as this quote would show hatred toward Catholocism,
>so PB's example shows genuine hatred.
"Let's talk about Jehovah Witnesses..." - National Hardwood Floor
Association.
If it'll make you feel better, not only would I take a shit on your flag,
I'd dump a greasy one on mine too. I do not support followers of one
religion trashing the competition, but since all irrational beliefs are
essentially the same to reasonable minds, this point of etiquette is not
required of atheists.
I haven't been following this thread for long enough to decide if you
make any sense, the relevant text was snipped long ago, but there is a
*fucking world* of difference between contempt for someone's idiotic
beliefs and contempt for the person themselves. My grandma believed she
was going to heaven and I loved her anyway.
your pal,
The *MIGHTY* (yet modest) Two Tub Man
P.S. Fuck me Jerry, I'm desperately lonely.
The *MIGHTY* (yet modest) Two Tub Man
>>
>>
>> Ah, so basically if you say that your head is made out of blue cheese and
>> I say that such a belief is idiotic, then I hate you and want to send you
>> to the gas ovens. Yeah, right.
[sigh] Hating a belief is not equivalent to hating a person. Besides,
hating a person is never healthy.
>> There's just no point in using logic with a believer.
>>
>
>a "believer ? So, if you can't back up your posistion, you make me a
>"believer"
Well I wasn't referring to you specifically (or at all, really), but if
you want to wear the crazy hat, go ahead and be defensive. [Trying not
to be patronizing] it's pointless to expect a rational argument from
someone who has irrational core beliefs. Nothing is ever resolved since
the myth-believer will ultimately leave the constraints of logical
discourse.
I gave it up long ago and now enjoy the science of tauntology.
>See...you just made my point for me...isn't this almost like calling me a
>"nigger" in your world ?
I like to invite the missionaries in to eat Doritos and watch gay porn.
One Brow
femin...@bigfoot.com wrote:
Just a note on a point you stated twice.
> >> There's just no point in using logic with a believer.
and
> it's pointless to expect a rational argument from
> someone who has irrational core beliefs. Nothing is ever resolved
> since the myth-believer will ultimately leave the constraints of
> logical discourse.
>
> The *MIGHTY* (yet modest) Two Tub Man
You seem to be confusing logic (the process of arriving at a
conclusion from a given set of axioms and procedures) with
and rationalism (the process of using reason and logic to
deveolop a theological doctrine) with the acceptance of the
standard that only objects/people whose existence can be
measured in certain widely-accepted ways are considered real.
The JW religion is quite logical and rational, even though it
does not meet last standard. If you truly care to demonstrate
otherwise, I am certainly receptive to the discussion.