Driver dies as truck plunges off S-curve
Jerry Brown Is Not The Answer
bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/09/BAAE1AHDO3.DTL
(11-09) 09:32 PST SAN FRANCISCO --
A truck driver died early today after losing control on the Bay
Bridge S-curve and plummeting in his big rig 200 feet to Yerba
Buena Island, the most serious crash since the new detour was
installed, the California Highway Patrol said.
The crash happened about 3:30 a.m. as the big rig, loaded with
pears, was traveling on the westbound upper deck at about 50 mph
- 1o mph over the speed limit in that zone - said CHP Sgt. Trent
Cross.
"The commercial vehicle was traveling at high speed when the
driver attempted to negotiate the turn," Cross said. "He went
off the side of the Bay Bridge and dropped approximately 200
feet down."
The truck plunged onto Yerba Buena Island, spilling about 30 to
40 gallons of diesel fuel when it landed. The driver, a Hayward
man whose name was not immediately released, died at the scene.
CHP investigators were trying to determine whether the truck's
load of pears had shifted as the big rig reached the S-curve,
something that could have helped propel the truck over the side
of the span.
Caltrans officials were inspecting the bridge at the site of the
crash, said spokeswoman Lauren Wonder. The two right lanes on
the upper deck were closed immediately after the crash. The far-
right lane remained closed until 7:45 a.m. to allow the CHP to
take aerial photos of the scene.
The owner of the truck could not immediately be identified. The
pear-laden container that the truck was carrying belonged to
OOCL, or Orient Overseas Container Line, a Hong Kong container-
shipping company with an office in San Ramon.
A company spokesman said the driver did not work for OOCL.
There have been more than 42 accidents in the curved area since
it opened Sept. 8 as part of the eastern span replacement
project, but this morning's crash was the first in which someone
died, authorities said.
On Oct. 14, a Safeway big rig truck flopped across four lanes
when it hit the S-curve, tying up westbound truck for hours. The
driver was unfamiliar with the new turn and was going too fast,
the CHP said.
The speed limit on the S-curve is 40 mph, a decrease from the 50
mph on the rest of the span, and drivers have had difficulty
negotiating the sudden curve.
The sharp increase in accidents and drivers' complaints led
Caltrans and the CHP to install new signs and flashing lights.
The CHP is planning to put in radar units, the electronic boards
that flash the speed of an approaching car. Last week, Caltrans
installed reflectors through the area to catch the attention of
drivers at night, the CHP said.
The CHP said the majority of the S-curve crashes have been
fender-benders. Most occurred in the first two weeks after the S-
curve opened, and as drivers have become more familiar with
terrain, the number of incidents has decreased, authorities said.
"From Day One since we had this S-curve open, we've tried to
instill in the motoring public that you really have to watch
your speed in this area," Cross said. "Speed has always been a
factor in every traffic collision that has occurred in this S-
curve."
Cross said this morning's accident, like many others, was
preventable and is "another example of poor judgment in which
someone lost their life. This didn't have to happen."
Dave C.
"Jerry Brown Is Not The Answer" <n...@jerrybrown.com> wrote:
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-
> bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/09/BAAE1AHDO3.DTL
>
> (11-09) 09:32 PST SAN FRANCISCO --
>
> A truck driver died early today after losing control on the Bay
> Bridge S-curve and plummeting in his big rig 200 feet to Yerba
> Buena Island, the most serious crash since the new detour was
> installed, the California Highway Patrol said.
>
> The crash happened about 3:30 a.m. as the big rig, loaded with
> pears, was traveling on the westbound upper deck at about 50 mph
> - 1o mph over the speed limit in that zone - said CHP Sgt. Trent
> Cross.
>
> "The commercial vehicle was traveling at high speed when the
> driver attempted to negotiate the turn," Cross said. "He went
> off the side of the Bay Bridge and dropped approximately 200
> feet down."
So this may be one of the very few specific instances where the posted
speed limit is actually too high. Considering how the speed limit is
set most of the time, 10 over the speed limit should be quite safe for
a top-heavy commercial vehicle. That's the danger of setting speed
limits too low. When the speed limit is justified (for a change) NOBODY
BELIEVES IT.
>
> The truck plunged onto Yerba Buena Island, spilling about 30 to
> 40 gallons of diesel fuel when it landed.
Is that all it was carrying? I guess it was coasting through the area
at 50MPH? Shit, that was below the level of the intake valves if
there was only 15 or 20 gallons in each tank.
The driver, a Hayward
> man whose name was not immediately released, died at the scene.
>
> CHP investigators were trying to determine whether the truck's
> load of pears had shifted as the big rig reached the S-curve,
> something that could have helped propel the truck over the side
> of the span.
Either that, or the speed limit in the area was set too high. -Dave
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
news:20091110013347...@nohow.never...
Have you ever been over that bridge?
I don't think there's a single logical -assumption- in your entire post.
--
--
Popeye
"If one does as God does enough times, one
will become as God is." -Dr. Hannibal Lector.
www.finalprotectivefire.com
http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762
richard
If you really believe all of that, then you can go down wolf creek pass
10mph over the posted speed limit. Loads over 80,000lbs, the posted speed
limit is 11mph!!
You wanna be billy big rigger? go for it. you only get one shot.
Dave C.
> > Either that, or the speed limit in the area was set too high. -Dave
>
> If you really believe all of that, then you can go down wolf creek
> pass 10mph over the posted speed limit. Loads over 80,000lbs, the
> posted speed limit is 11mph!!
>
> You wanna be billy big rigger? go for it. you only get one shot.
Don't be ridiculous. In 99.99% of cases, the posted speed limit in no
way reflects reality of traffic through the area. Nor is it set based
on anything remotely related to traffic safety concerns. I don't doubt
that the road you write about is a real bitch...and dangerous for truck
traffic.
My point was, if the speed limit in the area of the OP was set as
usual, like 99.99% of speed limits are set....
There is no way that simply going 50MPH in a 40MPH zone would end up in
the driver's death.
That's why I'm guessing that the speed limit is (in this case) set too
high for a change.
And again, it is safety NEGATIVE to set speed limits too low. I can't
believe any driver, especially a professional driver like myself, would
argue against me on that point. -Dave
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
>
>> > Either that, or the speed limit in the area was set too high. -Dave
>>
>> If you really believe all of that, then you can go down wolf creek
>> pass 10mph over the posted speed limit. Loads over 80,000lbs, the
>> posted speed limit is 11mph!!
>>
>> You wanna be billy big rigger? go for it. you only get one shot.
>
> Don't be ridiculous. In 99.99% of cases, the posted speed limit in no
> way reflects reality of traffic through the area.
What an -incredulously- factless, ignorant postulation.
At least, for someone else to make.
99.99% of your posts don't reflect reality, though.
> Nor is it set based
> on anything remotely related to traffic safety concerns.
See above.
>I don't doubt
> that the road you write about is a real bitch...and dangerous for truck
> traffic.
>
> My point was, if the speed limit in the area of the OP was set as
> usual, like 99.99% of speed limits are set....
>
> There is no way that simply going 50MPH in a 40MPH zone would end up in
> the driver's death.
That's not what you said.
This is what you said:
"So this may be one of the very few specific instances where the posted
speed limit is actually too high. Considering how the speed limit is
set most of the time, 10 over the speed limit should be quite safe for
a top-heavy commercial vehicle."
That statement isn't just ignorant, it's dangerous.
And this:
"That's the danger of setting speed limits too low. When the speed limit
is justified (for a change) NOBODY BELIEVES IT."
I'm sure that's a problem for you.
(You also made some utterly clueless statements about fuel tanks, but I
won't bother)
> That's why I'm guessing that the speed limit is (in this case) set too
> high for a change.
"Guessing" seems to account for the vast majority of your posting.
But I don't know why you'd assume that, after stating this:
"There is no way that simply going 50MPH in a 40MPH zone would end up in
the driver's death."
> And again, it is safety NEGATIVE to set speed limits too low. I can't
> believe any driver, especially a professional driver like myself, would
> argue against me on that point. -Dave
I'm glad you qualified that with "especially a professional driver like
myself", with which I would wholeheartedly agree.
Like yourself.
Your point may well apply to a certain level of braindead, drooling,
steering wheel-holding automaton*, but it simply doesn't apply to a
cautious, courteous driver of any basic ability to con his craft.
--
--
Popeye
"If one does as God does enough times, one
will become as God is." -Dr. Hannibal Lector.
www.finalprotectivefire.com
http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762
*2. a person or animal that acts in a monotonous, routine manner, without
active intelligence. (saved Corky a trip)
==================================================
"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in
message news:...
> "Dave C." <no...@nohow.never> wrote in message
> news:20091110013347...@nohow.never...
>> Either that, or the speed limit in the area was set too high. -Dave
>
>
>
Zeke
>
> So this may be one of the very few specific instances where the posted
> speed limit is actually too high. Considering how the speed limit is
> set most of the time, 10 over the speed limit should be quite safe for
> a top-heavy commercial vehicle. That's the danger of setting speed
> limits too low. When the speed limit is justified (for a change) NOBODY
> BELIEVES IT.
>
As usual your post is a total pile of shit. Thousands of trucks cross
that bridge every day without issue. Every second Sunday one of those
is me. You don't know what the phuck you're talking about. Aren't you
the one that was asked to train other drivers? What a joke.
>
>> The truck plunged onto Yerba Buena Island, spilling about 30 to
>> 40 gallons of diesel fuel when it landed.
>
> Is that all it was carrying? I guess it was coasting through the area
> at 50MPH? Shit, that was below the level of the intake valves if
> there was only 15 or 20 gallons in each tank.
>
...idiot.
> The driver, a Hayward
>> man whose name was not immediately released, died at the scene.
>>
>> CHP investigators were trying to determine whether the truck's
>> load of pears had shifted as the big rig reached the S-curve,
>> something that could have helped propel the truck over the side
>> of the span.
>
> Either that, or the speed limit in the area was set too high. -Dave
No dumbass, the driver was hauling a load of pears and it is harvest
time in Kalifornia. The driver was likely an illegal alien that
couldn't read or comprehend the sign.
Dave C.
Zeke <no...@none.none> wrote:
> Dave C. wrote:
>
> >
> > So this may be one of the very few specific instances where the
> > posted speed limit is actually too high. Considering how the speed
> > limit is set most of the time, 10 over the speed limit should be
> > quite safe for a top-heavy commercial vehicle. That's the danger
> > of setting speed limits too low. When the speed limit is justified
> > (for a change) NOBODY BELIEVES IT.
> >
>
> As usual your post is a total pile of shit. Thousands of trucks
> cross that bridge every day without issue. Every second Sunday one
> of those is me. You don't know what the phuck you're talking about.
> Aren't you the one that was asked to train other drivers? What a
> joke.
OK, so tell me...is the speed limit through the S-curve detour
reasonable, or is it not? I'm guessing it's set too high (for a
change) as someone only going 10 over got in deee doo-doo. -Dave
Dave C.
>
> I'm glad you qualified that with "especially a professional driver
> like myself", with which I would wholeheartedly agree.
>
> Like yourself.
>
> Your point may well apply to a certain level of braindead,
> drooling, steering wheel-holding automaton*, but it simply doesn't
> apply to a cautious, courteous driver of any basic ability to con his
> craft.
>
I've got written proof of a perfect driving record going back decades.
While I was still in training to get my CDL, and at my first truck
driving job, my trainers were constantly nagging me to drive FASTER.
When I first started driving combination vehicles, I tended to stay
close to the speed limit, but generally under it. For which my
trainers were constantly criticizing me. I rarely exceed the speed
limit in a commercial vehicle in any speed zone less than 65MPH.
Having said all that, I have been all over the U.S. and Canada now and
I have yet to see a road posted with a realistic speed limit. They are
all set way too low. In most cases, the general traffic flow (the
safest speed to travel, by the way) is at least 10-15MPH above the
posted limit.
All safety experts agree that the proper way to post the speed limit is
the way it is NEVER done. -Dave (still thinking about taking the
Driver Trainer position...not sure if I want to go back to doing that
though, as it's OTR)
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
What makes you think they actually knew what his speed was, or, that it
was that, alone, that caused the accident?
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
>
>>
>> I'm glad you qualified that with "especially a professional driver
>> like myself", with which I would wholeheartedly agree.
>>
>> Like yourself.
>>
>> Your point may well apply to a certain level of braindead,
>> drooling, steering wheel-holding automaton*, but it simply doesn't
>> apply to a cautious, courteous driver of any basic ability to con his
>> craft.
>>
>
> I've got written proof of a perfect driving record going back decades.
Bullshit.
Then provide it.
Be that as it may, it still doesn't have any bearing on the assininity of
the statements you snipped.
<snip blah, blah, blah)
Zeke
"Dave C." <no...@nohow.never> wrote in message
>
> OK, so tell me...is the speed limit through the S-curve detour
> reasonable, or is it not? I'm guessing it's set too high (for a
> change) as someone only going 10 over got in deee doo-doo. -Dave
>
The posted limit is just fine for anyone with a little bit of common sense.
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Dave
> What makes you think they actually knew what his speed was, or, that it
> was that, alone, that caused the accident?
>
Good point. When it was reported that he was doing 50MPH in a 40MPH
construction zone, how did they know how fast he was going? And at 3AM,
it's somewhat likely that fatigue could have been a major factor. -Dave
Dave
>> reasonable, or is it not? I'm guessing it's set too high (for a
>> change) as someone only going 10 over got in deee doo-doo. -Dave
>>
>
> The posted limit is just fine for anyone with a little bit of common
> sense.
Then why have there been so many accidents in the area? Lack of
enforcement? -Dave
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
news:hdh0s2$ra9$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Hmmm.
Who are you, and what have you done with the real Dave?
Dave C.
> "Dave" <now...@nohow2.not> wrote in message
> news:hdh0s2$ra9$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> > >
> >> What makes you think they actually knew what his speed was, or,
> >> that it was that, alone, that caused the accident?
> >>
> >
> > Good point. When it was reported that he was doing 50MPH in a
> > 40MPH construction zone, how did they know how fast he was going?
> > And at 3AM, it's somewhat likely that fatigue could have been a
> > major factor. -Dave
>
>
>
>
> Hmmm.
>
> Who are you, and what have you done with the real Dave?
>
The real Dave is a professional driver, former driver trainer, possible
future driver trainer (haven't decided yet) with a perfect driving
record, and written proof of such, going back decades. And the real
Dave is a strong believer in such concepts as setting speed limits at
the 85th percentile of free-flowing traffic. The real Dave knows that
safety isn't guaranteed by religiously adhering to a number posted on a
roadside sign.
And the real Dave does wonder how they knew how fast the truck was
going, and does suspect that fatigue might have been a factor in this
incident. -Dave
Zeke
"Dave" <now...@nohow2.not> wrote in message
No, most all of them can be chalked up to simple stupidity. Texting while
trying to negotiate an S-turn in a construction zone while applying makeup
can be a challenge. Any of you professional drivers who regularly spend
time in California know that there's an over abundance of distracted and
unskilled drivers on the road.
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Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:39:52 -0500
> "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "Dave" <now...@nohow2.not> wrote in message
>> news:hdh0s2$ra9$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> > >
>> >> What makes you think they actually knew what his speed was, or,
>> >> that it was that, alone, that caused the accident?
>> >>
>> >
>> > Good point. When it was reported that he was doing 50MPH in a
>> > 40MPH construction zone, how did they know how fast he was going?
>> > And at 3AM, it's somewhat likely that fatigue could have been a
>> > major factor. -Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hmmm.
>>
>> Who are you, and what have you done with the real Dave?
>>
>
> The real Dave is a professional driver,
That's one opinion.
I seem to be as impressed with your professionalism as you seem to be
impressed with everybody else's here.
I don't give a fuck -who- you think you are, anyone that could utter a
statement this criminally negligent:
"Considering how the speed limit is set most of the time, 10 over the
speed limit should be quite safe for a -->top-heavy<-- commercial vehicle."
Has no business training other drivers.
>former driver trainer, possible
> future driver trainer (haven't decided yet) with a perfect driving
> record,
In -this- day and age, that statement is an utterly worthless metric of
skill or experience, and won't impress a driver of even average experience.
We -all- know a driver trainor or two that's a complete buffoon.
>and written proof of such, going back decades.
And yet again this claim, still waiting to be evidenced.
Second Request.
> And the real
> Dave is a strong believer in such concepts as setting speed limits at
> the 85th percentile of free-flowing traffic.
Just -another- arbitrary method that requires minute-by-minute
interpretation by -any- driver.
As much as you discount other speed setting criteria (that you don't
know), I can't see how this one seems to shine like a diamond in a goats'
ass for you.
However, and -whatever- speed is set, where ever it's set, the conditions
used in the formula will change second by minute by day by week.
And there just aren't that many speed limit variations to choose from,
dude.
>The real Dave knows that
> safety isn't guaranteed by religiously adhering to a number posted on a
> roadside sign.
Nobody has made that statement but you.
Obfuscation by overstatement simply highlights lack of point.
> And the real Dave does wonder how they knew how fast the truck was
> going, and does suspect that fatigue might have been a factor in this
> incident. -Dave
Excellent.
cellurl
I run wikispeedia, the free speed limit site and I need Zeke or
Douglas or someone to help us out. Heck you are driving anyway.
Sorry again for barging in.
Zeke
"Jerry Brown Is Not The Answer" <n...@jerrybrown.com> wrote in message
news:3LCQ7CZO4012...@reece.net.au...
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-
> bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/09/BAAE1AHDO3.DTL
>
> (11-09) 09:32 PST SAN FRANCISCO --
>
> A truck driver died early today after losing control on the Bay
> Bridge S-curve and plummeting in his big rig 200 feet to Yerba
> Buena Island, the most serious crash since the new detour was
> installed, the California Highway Patrol said.
>
They now have warnings signs telling trucks to slow down through the S-curve
detour. It's not likely to do any good as they are in english instead of
Spanish, Punjabi, or several eastern bloc languages.
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