laser tree trimmer

[palmerhg]

You guys probably think I'm crazy - maybe so. I have had this idea for 10
years or longer of developing a laser tree trimmer. The antiquated
technology of climbing up a tree to trim off a dead limb is less than
desirable. I would like for someone to develop a laser that would recognize
living cells and be able to zap/cut/burn those dead cells while having an
effective range of maybe 150 feet. If this thing got loose, it could
probably cut through a house, but if it was set up properly, it would be a
great tool and I could sit in my back yard and trim trees while sipping a
cold beverage. Forget the patent - anyone who wants to develop it, go for
it.

Any thoughts?

Hamilton Palmer
HGP, Inc. - Land Surveyors
Purina Tower, Suite 100
401 Charles Street
Fredericksburg, VA 22401
ph 540 371-5171

[James Sweet]

"palmerhg" <palm...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:U2oUd.3502$2s.1930@lakeread06...

> You guys probably think I'm crazy - maybe so. I have had this idea for 10
> years or longer of developing a laser tree trimmer. The antiquated
> technology of climbing up a tree to trim off a dead limb is less than
> desirable. I would like for someone to develop a laser that would
recognize
> living cells and be able to zap/cut/burn those dead cells while having an
> effective range of maybe 150 feet. If this thing got loose, it could
> probably cut through a house, but if it was set up properly, it would be a
> great tool and I could sit in my back yard and trim trees while sipping a
> cold beverage. Forget the patent - anyone who wants to develop it, go for
> it.
>
> Any thoughts?
>

Sounds pretty far fetched, what you would likely end up with is an automated
forrest-fire starter. How you would recognize living cells is a big question
too, there's just no easy way.

[redbelly]

palmerhg wrote:

> The antiquated technology of climbing up a tree to trim
> off a dead limb is less than desirable.

It's not antiquated until somebody comes up with a better
method, and actually puts it to use (goes way beyond the
"idea" stage).

As James pointed out, this would be a fire hazard.

Mark

p.s. I used to work for a laser company and the sales people
had some great stories. One day they got a call from a rancher
in Australia, who had a problem with wild dingoes jumping over
his fence and getting to his livestock. He wondered if a laser
could be set up to decapitate the dingoes when they would
jump the fence -- but of course, NOT harm people, or anything
else. The "Dingo Decapitater" became a running joke among us.

[Doug Dulmage]

In article <1109540879.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "redbelly" <redbe...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>p.s. I used to work for a laser company and the sales people
>had some great stories. One day they got a call from a rancher
>in Australia, who had a problem with wild dingoes jumping over
>his fence and getting to his livestock. He wondered if a laser
>could be set up to decapitate the dingoes when they would
>jump the fence -- but of course, NOT harm people, or anything
>else. The "Dingo Decapitater" became a running joke among us.
>

The applications that used to come in our front door always seemed
to top the previous ones. We did a whole lot of medical stent cutting,
balloons for stent inflation, etc. One of the worst one's that I had to
do the R+D on was seperating the vein from the artery of human
umbilical cords. They brought us bottles of human umbilical cords,
and we'd thread glass rods into them to straighten them out, then
try running them under the excimer's in different configurations to
see which left the least amount of charring, etc. Def. one of the
grossest things I've done, stunk like heck, and the things were like
giant gooey spaghettii noodles. I think at least every single guy in
that shop had to run and heave at least once, if not from handling
them, but from the smell. But that process is worth a small fortune
to be able to "recycle" the artery for heart surgery, I think they get
about $500 USD an inch for the artery's.. And we did do "retrievals"
of used stents offsite at two of our clients who had their own morgues
and autopsy suites. Yeeech..

Doug (gotta go gag..)

[RLL]

I used to be the applications engineer at Apollo Lasers in L.A. and we had
some very strange potential applications pass through our doors over the
years. I remember once when Farmer John bought us hot dogs in the casings.
They wanted us to cut the casings but not score the hot dogs. It was tricky
but I was able to do it until we reached the end of each hot dog. The end
was no longer in focus and required increased power to cut, however when the
CO2 laser power was increased, it carbonized the hot dog in the center
portion. So we told them it was not possible, but we lots of leftover hot
dogs, so it wasn't a total loss.

I think this laser tree surgeon idea fits what we used to refer to as the
"James Bond Syndrome" from Goldfinger. After that film, everyone thought a
laser had an infinite depth of field and could cut through metal like a hot
knife through butter. In the real world, lasers require a lens to focus the
power to achieve the power density necessary to even scorch a tree; to cut a
limb 10-20 feet away is quite impossible. It seems amazing that people do
not understand even the basic laws of physics, optics, etc.

- Russ

"palmerhg" <palm...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:U2oUd.3502$2s.1930@lakeread06...

[danny burstein]

In <nUuUd.89300$bu.36061@fed1read06> "RLL" <rlom...@cox.net> writes:

>"James Bond Syndrome" from Goldfinger. After that film, everyone thought a
>laser had an infinite depth of field and could cut through metal like a hot
>knife through butter. In the real world, lasers require a lens to focus the
>power to achieve the power density necessary to even scorch a tree; to cut a
>limb 10-20 feet away is quite impossible. It seems amazing that people do
>not understand even the basic laws of physics, optics, etc.

Do you know anything about the following? :

"And the University of Tasmania in Hobart sells a CO2 laser system
for controlling forest undergrowth. The system is used to ignite
logging debris from distances of 100 to 1,500 meters. The laser,
costing $86,500, is mounted on a gun turret carried in a 2-ton
truck and is simple to operate. Similar systems are available
commercially throughout the world.

(from: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/000595.htm )

No info on the university's website.

Thanks

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

[Doug Dulmage]

In article <cvtu55$ih6$1...@reader2.panix.com>, danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote:
>In <nUuUd.89300$bu.36061@fed1read06> "RLL" <rlom...@cox.net> writes:
>
>>"James Bond Syndrome" from Goldfinger. After that film, everyone thought a
>>laser had an infinite depth of field and could cut through metal like a hot
>>knife through butter. In the real world, lasers require a lens to focus the
>>power to achieve the power density necessary to even scorch a tree; to cut a
>>limb 10-20 feet away is quite impossible. It seems amazing that people do
>>not understand even the basic laws of physics, optics, etc.
>
>Do you know anything about the following? :
>
> "And the University of Tasmania in Hobart sells a CO2 laser system
> for controlling forest undergrowth. The system is used to ignite
> logging debris from distances of 100 to 1,500 meters. The laser,
> costing $86,500, is mounted on a gun turret carried in a 2-ton
> truck and is simple to operate. Similar systems are available
> commercially throughout the world.
>
>(from: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/000595.htm )
>
>No info on the university's website.
>
>Thanks
>

Can't say I'd know where to look, but I did hear about something along that
line. Also, I believe that the lumber industry in B.C. Canada got into
something like that at one time. They also had, or may have some type
of laser/lightning re-direction system. A lot of this was supposed to have
come from a mysterious "Dr. Nam", a Korean researcher who developed
some very high power, but incredibly simple Co2 amplifiers back in the
mid-80's when I first lived here. He was supposed to have built six osc's
each one capable of generating 10Kw and this was supposedly done in
a wharehouse in Vancouver. Back then, and possibly now, the Vancouver
stock exhange had the reputation of being the exchange of the mob and
other various tax fraud schemers, etc. And they had this R+D tax credit
scheme going here that suddenly found lawyers becoming "scientists"
overnight in order to take their chunk of tax credits and turn them into
cash. The one gotcha is that they had to find willing "dupes" that would
actually do a little r+d to make it look legit, and this Dr. Nam was one
of the more famous ones. When that project went bust, I heard that the
laser amps were busted up and given away to various CDN research
co's, govt. agencies, etc. There was supposed to be one used to try
and do the lightening attraction/guided path type stuff. Another was
supposed to have been put on an ice breaker to be used for trying to
bust up ice up in the poles, and then one went onto a flatbed rail
car to be used to weld rail tracks..
But this is all urban legend as far as I know, I'd like to hear
from anyone that knows about any of this stuff, or the "Dr. Nam"..

Doug

[Skywise]

danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote in
news:cvtu55$ih6$1...@reader2.panix.com:

> In <nUuUd.89300$bu.36061@fed1read06> "RLL" <rlom...@cox.net> writes:
>
>>"James Bond Syndrome" from Goldfinger. After that film, everyone
>>thought a laser had an infinite depth of field and could cut through
>>metal like a hot knife through butter. In the real world, lasers
>>require a lens to focus the power to achieve the power density necessary
>>to even scorch a tree; to cut a limb 10-20 feet away is quite
>>impossible. It seems amazing that people do not understand even the
>>basic laws of physics, optics, etc.
>
> Do you know anything about the following? :
>
> "And the University of Tasmania in Hobart sells a CO2 laser system
> for controlling forest undergrowth. The system is used to ignite
> logging debris from distances of 100 to 1,500 meters. The laser,
> costing $86,500, is mounted on a gun turret carried in a 2-ton
> truck and is simple to operate. Similar systems are available
> commercially throughout the world.
>
> (from: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/000595.htm )
>
> No info on the university's website.
>
> Thanks
>

I'd be willing to fly to Tasmania and walk through the
undergrowth with a gas can and matches for a lot less
than $86,500!!!!

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[palmerhg]

Guys, I know I'm dreaming. But I've been dreaming for many years and I
think if you can distinguish from live cells and dead ones, in theory you
can solve part of the problem. I have no idea how a laser cuts or if it
really cuts. Don't know if it simply parts the molecules, tears, burns, or
rearranges them.

I asked some govt measurement scientists about this and they said they knew
someone who knew someone who could give me the answer. I never got farther
than I have with this thread.

Question: In theory, can it be done?

Thanks,

"Doug Dulmage" <dul...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:42224ee5$0$46553$a186...@visi.com...

[Doug Dulmage]

In article <%8QUd.24510$7z6.6014@lakeread04>, "palmerhg" <palm...@cox.net> wrote:
>Guys, I know I'm dreaming. But I've been dreaming for many years and I
>think if you can distinguish from live cells and dead ones, in theory you
>can solve part of the problem. I have no idea how a laser cuts or if it
>really cuts. Don't know if it simply parts the molecules, tears, burns, or
>rearranges them.
>
>I asked some govt measurement scientists about this and they said they knew
>someone who knew someone who could give me the answer. I never got farther
>than I have with this thread.
>
>Question: In theory, can it be done?
>
>Thanks,

Are you referring to the tree trimming (I apologize, the mind wanders as much
as most Usenet threads these days..)? Wood would most likely react best to
a Co2 laser as it's energy is absorbed well by a lot of organic materials like
wood, leather, etc. One possible scheme that even though a long shot, could
make something like this possible, maybe wetting down the tree prior to
trimming with the laser would prevent the obvious fire hazards. Then it would
be a matter of how dead or dry the limbs are. The exterior/interior of the
branches would have different ignition thresholds depending on the water
content, at least with the Co2 laser. We used different techniques of wetting
materials in the shop prior to cutting to try and minimize charring, and this
type of pre-treating is like most laser processing, a lot of voodoo and
homemade stuff that goes way back to the first guys that did this stuff.
Everyone has their favorite way of doing this stuff, and some treat it like
it was a Natl. Secret, although given that some of them have taken a
decade to work out, I guess they do have their value. I think a greater
problem than starting fires would be having a large enough depth of
focus so as to be able to get at large enough clusters of branches to
be productive. Then again, it it's using a laser to avoid the climbing
problems, then maybe those tradeoff's would be worth it. I've had to
remove two extremely large dutch elm's from my previous residence,
and the cost and labor was pretty extreme, and I could see where
someone might be tempted to come up with something to avoid
the climbing, especially over power lines.
Just for yuks, I have used one of my Synrad Co2's to break
up thick ice in my driveway in the dead of winter. Kept the neighbors
surely entertained, and it did a good job of busting up >2inch thick
ice..

Doug

[James Sweet]

"palmerhg" <palm...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:%8QUd.24510$7z6.6014@lakeread04...

> Guys, I know I'm dreaming. But I've been dreaming for many years and I
> think if you can distinguish from live cells and dead ones, in theory you
> can solve part of the problem. I have no idea how a laser cuts or if it
> really cuts. Don't know if it simply parts the molecules, tears, burns,
or
> rearranges them.
>

A laser burns, plain and simple, it's just focussed light and nothing more.
If you can cut it with a cutting torch you can probably cut it with the
appropriate laser, but some materials (such as wood for example) are just
not easily cut with a laser, it just smoulders or catches fire.

How do you expect to distinguish dead from living cells? And at a distance?
Unfortunatly Hollywood != Reality, we don't have Terminator style AI nor is
it on the forseeable horizon.

[James Sweet]

"danny burstein" <dan...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cvtu55$ih6$1...@reader2.panix.com...

> In <nUuUd.89300$bu.36061@fed1read06> "RLL" <rlom...@cox.net> writes:
>
> >"James Bond Syndrome" from Goldfinger. After that film, everyone thought
a
> >laser had an infinite depth of field and could cut through metal like a
hot
> >knife through butter. In the real world, lasers require a lens to focus
the
> >power to achieve the power density necessary to even scorch a tree; to
cut a
> >limb 10-20 feet away is quite impossible. It seems amazing that people
do
> >not understand even the basic laws of physics, optics, etc.
>
> Do you know anything about the following? :
>
> "And the University of Tasmania in Hobart sells a CO2 laser system
> for controlling forest undergrowth. The system is used to ignite
> logging debris from distances of 100 to 1,500 meters. The laser,
> costing $86,500, is mounted on a gun turret carried in a 2-ton
> truck and is simple to operate. Similar systems are available
> commercially throughout the world.

Igniting something from a distance with a CO2 laser is easy, cutting it is
not.

[Caleb Hess]

Aside from the question of whether a laser could be used to cut through
wood at a distance of tens of feet, there's a very simple reason why this
won't work from the ground. If you start cutting from the lower side of
a branch, eventually the remaining wood flexes under the weight of the
branch, the branch bends down, and the kerf closes, keeping you from
cutting all the way through. Try cutting through a branch from below
using a saw to drive home the point.

--
Caleb Hess he...@cs.indiana.edu

[Patrick]

There was an article in Photonics Spectra several years ago about tree
trimming with (I guess) a CO2 laser. There was even a picture with the truck
where the laser was installed.

Patrick

"palmerhg" <palm...@cox.net> schreef in bericht
news:U2oUd.3502$2s.1930@lakeread06...

[Sam Goldwasser]

"Patrick" <8790m...@belgacom.net> writes:

> There was an article in Photonics Spectra several years ago about tree
> trimming with (I guess) a CO2 laser. There was even a picture with the truck
> where the laser was installed.

Maybe the April 1 issue. :)

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[greenguy...@gmail.com]

I, as an arborist, have had the same dream for nearly 20 years.

[byers...@gmail.com]

Thinking,and knowing for a fact, are two different things. I know for a fact this is possible. After just a dream and a few hours research. Definitely possible.

[ran...@gmail.com]

You need captain Kirk’s phaser

[phil...@yahoo.com.au]