rolling R with retainer - hopeless?
Benjamin M?ller
For some weeks now I'm trying hard to learn the rolling-R. I've
already found some descriptions how to do it.
My problem: After ortho-treatment I got a bonded retainer (small wire
glued directly onto the upper six front teeth from the one canine
tooth to the other one). The wire is exactly where the teeth end and
the gum begins. (It's about 2mm "high".)
Is it possible at all to produce an spanish/finnish rolling-R with
such a wire? Does anybody know? I don't want to try for nothing.
Then maybe I'll try to get rid of it.
Thanks for help
Benjamin
Wiktor S.
> already found some descriptions how to do it.
>
> My problem: After ortho-treatment I got a bonded retainer (small wire
> glued directly onto the upper six front teeth from the one canine
> tooth to the other one). The wire is exactly where the teeth end and
> the gum begins. (It's about 2mm "high".)
>
> Is it possible at all to produce an spanish/finnish rolling-R with
> such a wire? Does anybody know? I don't want to try for nothing.
I've met some people with this device, and they had no problems at all
pronuncing rolling Rs in Polish.
Now I simulated this by putting various things into my mouth ;-) and it does
not bother as long as nothing is touching your tongue from the upper side.
Even with small amount of water in mouth it's still pronunceable.
--
Azarien
e-mail: wswiktor.fm<dot>interia.pl<slash>mail.html
Wiktor S.
there with _appriopate_ force. Then breathe out. You're not rolling your
tongue by yourself, it's air doing it.
mb
> My problem: After ortho-treatment I got a bonded retainer (small wire
> glued directly onto the upper six front teeth from the one canine
> tooth to the other one). The wire is exactly where the teeth end and
> the gum begins. (It's about 2mm "high".)
>
> Is it possible at all to produce an spanish/finnish rolling-R with
> such a wire? Does anybody know? I don't want to try for nothing.
Don't worry, I roll my Rs something turrrible and it's always alveolar
(as for most R-rollers). Also, a number of natives in rolled-R
languages cannot roll them and adopt alternative sounds, so even if
you can't roll them you can remain in the phonemic field.
Elina P.
> >
> > Is it possible at all to produce an spanish/finnish rolling-R with
> > such a wire? Does anybody know? I don't want to try for nothing.
I think it possible. When I speak Finnish words with r, my tongue
doesn't touch my teeth at all - it's futher back.
> Don't worry, I roll my Rs something turrrible and it's always alveolar
> (as for most R-rollers). Also, a number of natives in rolled-R
> languages cannot roll them and adopt alternative sounds, so even if
> you can't roll them you can remain in the phonemic field.
True. I was 7 years old when I learned the correct r with the help of
a logopedist. This is how I learned it: Try saying 'dn dn dn' with a
great force, and suddenly you find yourself saying 'drn drrn' with a
very nice rolled r ;)
Elina
**jalo joutilaisuus on luovuudelle välttämätöntä**
mb
...
> > Don't worry, I roll my Rs something turrrible and it's always alveolar
> > (as for most R-rollers). Also, a number of natives in rolled-R
> > languages cannot roll them and adopt alternative sounds, so even if
> > you can't roll them you can remain in the phonemic field.
>
> True. I was 7 years old when I learned the correct r with the help of
> a logopedist. This is how I learned it: Try saying 'dn dn dn' with a
> great force, and suddenly you find yourself saying 'drn drrn' with a
> very nice rolled r ;)
What the poor kids have to go through to make parents happy!
My first contact with Finnish on Finnish soil was a big burly guy at
the airport who discovered he'd lost his passport, yelling "voi
pehhhkele!" Everybody understood, no matter the non-rhotic so-called
anomaly.
Elina P.
> What the poor kids have to go through to make parents happy!
Oh no, this had _nothing_ to do with my parents. Back then (early
80's) - and I assume nowadays too - every Finnish first-grader with r-
or s-problems had _automaticly_ sessions with 'speech-teachers' at
school, just like dyslexic children had special training. Some kids
didn't benefit from it, but I'm glad I did. The only drawback is that
since then I have been quite unable to pronounce the uvular back-r...
Nowadays I have far too overactive gag-reflex as well...
Elina
** jalo joutilaisuus on luovuudelle välttämätöntä **
mb
....
> Oh no, this had _nothing_ to do with my parents. Back then (early
> 80's) - and I assume nowadays too - every Finnish first-grader with r-
> or s-problems had _automaticly_ sessions with 'speech-teachers' at
> school, just like dyslexic children had special training. Some kids
> didn't benefit from it, but I'm glad I did. The only drawback is that
> since then I have been quite unable to pronounce the uvular back-r...
> Nowadays I have far too overactive gag-reflex as well...
Reminds me that Jari Sinkkonen, the child psychiatrist (whose daughter
Elina should be about your age), had some good rationale for
corrective therapy (independent of phonemic recognizability, of
course). Just asking out of curiosity: are you glad because it does
not attract attention, or for another reason?