Help with "rAm kareN kahiN naina na uljhe"
Padmanabhan Srinagesh
IqbAl bAno sings a beautiful song whose words I transcribe below. My
version has several mistakes, some of which I indicate with a question
mark. (If my posts had no mistakes, if they were erudite, concise,
scholarly, and informative, you would have to call me Ali Sahib, and my
kids would have to call me Ali Baba! I don't think you would call me
Raj Kumar Sahib under any circumstances; he posts in Urdu and his style
is distinctive!)
Does anyone know who wrote the lyrics? They seem to have come from
several sources.
rAm kareN kahiN nainA na uljhe
in nainan ki rIt burI hai
in nainoN uljhAe na suljhe
shab-e-firAq main yuN dil ka dAgh jaltA hai
makAn-e-? jaise charAgh jaltA hai
chashmeN purnam hai jigar jaltA hai
kyA qayAmat hai ke barsAt mein ghar jaltA hai
qarAr chhIn liya beqarAr chhOD gaye
bahAr le gaye yAd-e-bahAr chhoD gaye
hamAre chashm-e-hazIN ko na kuchch khyAl kiyA
vo umr bhar ke liye ashkbAr chhoD gaye
I believe rAm means tame or submissive in Urdu, and rAm karna means to
subjugate. Is the Urdu rAm related in any way to the mythical Hindu
figure rAm?
Thanks for any help.
Nagesh
Jamil Ahmad
nr...@pacbell.net wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> IqbAl bAno sings a beautiful song whose words I transcribe below. My
> version has several mistakes, some of which I indicate with a question
> mark. (If my posts had no mistakes, if they were erudite, concise,
> scholarly, and informative, you would have to call me Ali Sahib, and
my
> kids would have to call me Ali Baba! I don't think you would call me
> Raj Kumar Sahib under any circumstances; he posts in Urdu and his
style
> is distinctive!)
>
> Does anyone know who wrote the lyrics? They seem to have come from
> several sources.
>
> rAm kareN kahiN nainA na uljhe
>
> I believe rAm means tame or submissive in Urdu, and rAm karna means to
> subjugate. Is the Urdu rAm related in any way to the mythical Hindu
> figure rAm?
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Nagesh
>
I don't know the song, but 'raam' here is not the Urdu (or Farsi) word,
meaning 'to tame' but is the Hindi and Sanskrit word for God. The line
expresses a prayer that the poet's eyes don't make a contact and land
the poet in all the problems that would follow.
Jamil
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
rajkp...@my-deja.com
> Greetings!
>
> IqbAl bAno sings a beautiful song whose words I transcribe below. My
> version has several mistakes, some of which I indicate with a question
> mark. (If my posts had no mistakes, if they were erudite, concise,
> scholarly, and informative, you would have to call me Ali Sahib, and
my
> kids would have to call me Ali Baba! I don't think you would call me
> Raj Kumar Sahib under any circumstances; he posts in Urdu and his
style
> is distinctive!)
>
bahut bahut shukriya, Nagesh Sahib, jo aap ne apni post meiN is qadar
muhabbat aur aqeedat ke saath khaaksaar ka naam liya hai ---
magar, huzoor, mujhe aap se aek shikaayat hai! voh yeh ke, jahaaN aap
ne Ali Sahib ki posts ke liye itne Dher saare adjectives ist'emaal kiye
haiN (erudite, concise, scholarly and informative), meri posts ke liye
faqat aek adjective (distinctive) ist'emaal kiya hai! :-((
kya yeh mumkin hai ke aap ke kehne ka asl matlab tha:
"all that plus --- "? :-))
just kidding!!!
> rAm kareN kahiN nainA na uljhe
>
It is fairly obvious to me that this geet was composed (by some poet)
from the perspective of a female who is scared of getting involved in
love. Since 'nainaa' here refers to both the eyes, the last word should
be 'uljheN'.
The word 'raam' here, as Jamil Sahib has rightly pointed out, is not
the Urdu-Persian word you have alluded to; it refers instead to Lord
Rama and, by conventional extrapolation, to God himself. Accordingly,
this damsel is imploring her God to be kind enough and save her from
the agony of falling in love............though my guess is that she is
already half-way there! :-))
ise kehte haiN:
"hirni hai Dari Dari si, lekin maanoos!".
> chashmeN purnam hai jigar jaltA hai
> kyA qayAmat hai ke barsAt mein ghar jaltA hai
>
perhaps the first line should be
"chashm pur-nam hai magar phir bhi jigar jalta hai".
ab kam-az-kam dono misre' ham-wazn to haiN!
> hamAre chashm-e-hazIN ko na kuchch khyAl kiyA
> vo umr bhar ke liye ashkbAr chhoD gaye
>
In the first line, hamaare should be hamaari and ko should be ka.
I hope this helps.
khair-andesh, Raj Kumar
Ashok
>
>IqbAl bAno sings a beautiful song whose words I transcribe below.
>Does anyone know who wrote the lyrics? They seem to have come from
>several sources.
A lovely full-length version (13 minutes) of the song is on
Music Today's "Guldasta" series, Volume 4. (Volumes 3 and 4
are devoted to Iqbal Bano.)
It is a saampradaayik (traditional) daadraa. The cassette gives
the names of the music arranger and the accompanying artists, but
not the name of the poet. Perhaps there is no known poet.
There is one more couplet than what Nagesh posted in this
version. Also, Rajkumar's corrections were very prescient.
Here are the words as I hear them!
raam kare kahii.n nainaa.n na ulajhe.n
in nainan kii riit burii hai
bin nainaa.n ulajhaae naa sulajhe.n
(I clearly hear it as "bin" not "in" in the second line.)
shab-e-firaaq me.n yuu.N dil kaa daaG jalataa hai
makaan-e-Kaalii me.n jaise charaaG jalataa hai
(NB: In ITRANS, K is like kh in khudaa.)
chashm pur_nam hai merii aur jigar jalataa hai
kyaa qayaamat hai ke barasaat me.n ghar jalataa hai
qaraar chhiin liyaa beqaraar chhOD gae
bahaar le gaye yaad-e-bahaar chhoD gae
hamaarii chashm-e-hazii.n kaa na kuchh Kayaal kiyaa
vo umr bhar ke lie ashk_baar chhoD gae
nigaahe.n dar pe lagii.n hai.n, udaas baiThe hai.n
kisii ke aane kii leke aas baiThe hai.n
>Nagesh
Ashok
Padmanabhan Srinagesh
>
> In article <3813DF...@pacbell.net>, nr...@pacbell.net says...
> >
> >IqbAl bAno sings a beautiful song whose words I transcribe below.
>
> >Does anyone know who wrote the lyrics? They seem to have come from
> >several sources.
>
> A lovely full-length version (13 minutes) of the song is on
> Music Today's "Guldasta" series, Volume 4. (Volumes 3 and 4
> are devoted to Iqbal Bano.)
>
> It is a saampradaayik (traditional) daadraa. The cassette gives
>
> Ashok
Many thanks to Ashok Sahib, Jamil Sahib and Raj Kumar Sahib for the
corrections and additional comments. I'll look for the guldastA series
on my next trip to the stores.
When I first heard the song, I assumed that rAm kare referred to the
Hindu god, and the song sounded like a Thumri, so the interpretation was
not strained. I came across the Urdu word "rAm" in another context, and
it seemed to me that it might apply in this case.
After the first three lines, the rhyme pattern and the metre change, and
the Hindu influence is gone. I enjoyed this transition and the mix of
many influences. I haven't seen that too often (the Sabri brothers
being an exception). Just curious, are there any other pieces like this
one?
Sorry for the delay in responding to the earlier messages. But I work
on mergers, aur vasl ke din a gaye.
Regards,
Nagesh
yogesh...@my-deja.com
nr...@pacbell.net wrote:
>... Just curious, are there any other pieces like this
> one?
>
Nagesh sahib, there are more. One such piece is by Abida Parveen.
The ghazal 'jab se tuu ne mujhe diivaanaa banaa rakhaa hai' is by Nasir
but in between she breaks into: 'duniyaa ba.Dii baa.nvarii pathar
puujane jaae, ghar ki chakkii ko_ii na puuje jis kaa piisaa khaae'.
On the whole, it is an excellent rendition by Abida.
Regards,
Yogesh Sethi
vijay...@my-deja.com
Way back, I think in 1981, I attneded a live concert of Mehdi Hassan in
Manchester, UK. He opened 'yeh dhUaaN sa kahaN se uthta hai' with a
dohaa by Miira. I can't remember the words but it was a very impressive
mix of shudh hindi merging 'dhUaaN like' into urdu. Never heard it on
any recording since.
Vijay Kumar
yogesh...@my-deja.com
vijay...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Way back, I think in 1981, I attneded a live concert of Mehdi Hassan
in
> Manchester, UK. He opened 'yeh dhUaaN sa kahaN se uthta hai' with a
> dohaa by Miira. I can't remember the words but it was a very
impressive
> mix of shudh hindi merging 'dhUaaN like' into urdu. Never heard it on
> any recording since.
>
> Vijay Kumar
>
one more such instance. Ustad Amant Ali Khan starts out:
kaagaa sab tan khaayo, chun chun khaayo maas
do nainaa mat khaayo, inhei.n piyaa milan ki aas
and then continues with a traditional ghazal - 'kab aa_o ge'.
The album is 'Whispering Memories', Timeline TLCD 075. It features 15
ghazals including a terrific rendition of 'inshaaji uTho ab kuuch
chalo'.
Padmanabhan Srinagesh
>
>
> kaagaa sab tan khaayo, chun chun khaayo maas
> do nainaa mat khaayo, inhei.n piyaa milan ki aas
>
> and then continues with a traditional ghazal - 'kab aa_o ge'.
>
> The album is 'Whispering Memories', Timeline TLCD 075. It features 15
> ghazals including a terrific rendition of 'inshaaji uTho ab kuuch
> chalo'.
>
> Regards,
> Yogesh Sethi
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Thanks Yogesh Sahib! I recently purchased "Memories of Amanat Ali
Khan", EMI/Sirocco, which has "Inshaji uTho" and "kab Aoge" on it. I'll
listen to it tonight.
The CD also has "ik khalish ko hAsil-e-umr-e-ravAn rehne diya" by Adib
Saharanpuri. THe ghazal is on Nitaji's website, and it has also been
very nicely sung by Mehdi Hasan.
I bought the CD because it had "jo guzri mujh pe", which I heard sung by
Malika PukhrAj many years ago. I would appreciate any information on
the ghazal: who wrote it, who else may hve sung it, etc.
Nagesh
Ashok
>
>
>raam kare kahii.n nainaa.n na ulajhe.n
>
>in nainan kii riit burii hai
>bin nainaa.n ulajhaae naa sulajhe.n
>
>makaan-e-Kaalii me.n jaise charaaG jalataa hai
I have a couple of questions on the last stanza.
1. Does "daaGh jalanaa" make sense?
2. What about "makaan-e-Khaalii"?
I take it to mean empty house, but is "noun-e-adjuective"
a proper form? Or, can "Khaalii" be used as a noun,
something like emptiness?
Note: there is some chance that I didn't hear right!
Ashok
Padmanabhan Srinagesh
> Nagesh sahib, this ghazal is by Sauda. I do not know if it has been
> rendered by other artists.
>
Thanks, Yogesh Sahib! I was able to find the ghazal on Nitaji's
website. Her rendition of the matlA is:
"jo guzarii mujh pe mat us se kaho huaa so huaa
balaa, ki shaan-e-muhabbat me.n jo huaa so huaa"
When I hear the ghazal, the matla sounds like:
"jo guzrI mujh pe mat us se kaho hua so hua
balA kashAn-e muhabbat jo hua so hua"
Any comments on the correct version?
>
> BTW, I find Abida's voice very appealing. It has NFAK's type of range
> and control. The quality of the tapes that I posses do not do full
> justice to her voice. I would be appreciative if any one can recommend a
> set of high quality CDs which will be representative of her renditions.
I have several CDs and cassettes of Abida Parveen's. The CDs I like
are:
1. The incomparable Abida Parveen (Sirocco), with "Tujh lab ki sifat",
"khabar-e-taghayyur-e-ishq" (one of my favorites), "yun sjA chAnd", and
others.
2. "KhazAnA", volume 5, from Oriental Star Agencies. with "ishq ka rAz
gar nahin", "sauda ho to aisa ho" and "taklIf-e-hijr de gayi".
I also have one called "are logo tumhara kya" which has compositions
mainly of Bhullay Shah and Sachal Sarmast. Can't say much about it,
thoughas I have not heard all of it yet.
Nagesh
yogesh...@my-deja.com
nr...@pacbell.net wrote:
> ... because it had "jo guzri mujh pe", which I heard sung by
> Malika PukhrAj many years ago. I would appreciate any information on
> the ghazal: who wrote it, who else may hve sung it, etc.
>
Nagesh sahib, this ghazal is by Sauda. I do not know if it has been
rendered by other artists.
But I discovered another instance of your earlier query. Again, it is
Abida singing a ghazal 'ra.ng baate.n kare.n ' in which she diverts to
the following two dohaas, at two different times, in the rendition:
priitam priit lagaaye ke, duur desh mat jaaye
baso hamaarii naagrii, ham maa.nge tuu khaaye
tulsi aisii priit na kar, jaisii lambii khajuur
dhuup lage to chaa.nv nahii.n, bhuuk lage phal duur
BTW, I find Abida's voice very appealing. It has NFAK's type of range
and control. The quality of the tapes that I posses do not do full
justice to her voice. I would be appreciative if any one can recommend a
set of high quality CDs which will be representative of her renditions.
Regards,
Padmanabhan Srinagesh
> A minor point: the grand-dad of the Punjabi poetry should be referred
> to as 'Bulle Shah'
> --- not 'Bhullay Shah'.
>
> khair-andesh, Raj KumarRaj Kumar Sahib:
Thanks for the information on Sauda's ghazal.
As for the spelling of Bulle Shah, I used the spelling on the CD
jacket. I have seen it spelt the other way, and I must admit "Bhullay"
does not look good. But no offense was meant.
Nagesh
rajkp...@my-deja.com
In article <381D08...@pacbell.net>,
nr...@pacbell.net wrote:
> Thanks, Yogesh Sahib! I was able to find the ghazal on Nitaji's
> website. Her rendition of the matlA is:
>
> "jo guzarii mujh pe mat us se kaho huaa so huaa
> balaa, ki shaan-e-muhabbat me.n jo huaa so huaa"
>
> When I hear the ghazal, the matla sounds like:
>
> "jo guzrI mujh pe mat us se kaho hua so hua
> balA kashAn-e muhabbat jo hua so hua"
>
> Any comments on the correct version?
Nagesh Sahib:
The version that you seem to have heard from the CD cannot be right for
(at least) two reasons:
1. The second line, as quoted by you, is out of meter. The word 'meiN'
is badly needed here.
2. The phrase 'balaa-kashaan-e-muhabbat', though legitimate in its own
right, does not lend this she'r a cogent meaning.
The version you got from Nita ji's site fares well on both these counts.
The meter is right, and the sh'er acquires meaning too. The second
misra' in that version means:
"hamaari balaa se! is raah-e-muhabbat meiN, jo kuchh bhi hua, so hua.
ham aashiq haiN, koi taajir naheeN haiN jo nafa'-nuqsaan ki socheN".
> I also have one called "are logo tumhara kya" which has compositions
> mainly of Bhullay Shah and Sachal Sarmast. Can't say much about it,
> thoughas I have not heard all of it yet.
A minor point: the grand-dad of the Punjabi poetry should be referred
rajkp...@my-deja.com
---------
P.S. After having sent this note, I thought more about this matter and
figured out the following:
The phrase 'balaa-kashaan-e-muhabbat' would be a possibility here ---
provided that it is followed by the word 'ko'. The meter would then be
right and the she'r would acquire some meaning too. Of course, I would
still be concerned about the fact that, while the subject in the first
misra' is singular, the one in the second would be plural!
R.K.
rajkp...@my-deja.com
In article <7vijhh$a...@news1.newsguy.com>,
ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) wrote:
> >shab-e-firaaq me.n yuu.N dil kaa daaG jalataa hai
> >makaan-e-Kaalii me.n jaise charaaG jalataa hai
>
> I have a couple of questions on the last stanza.
>
> 1. Does "daaGh jalanaa" make sense?
I have seen this (awkward) phrase in use. Of course, the scar of a
wound that has healed fully is not expected to give any burning
sensation. The connotation here seems to be that the 'scar' of a wound
that is NOT fully healed may, from time to time, produce a burning
sensation. The result is more a 'kasak' than 'dard'.
> 2. What about "makaan-e-Khaalii"?
>
> I take it to mean empty house, but is "noun-e-adjuective"
> a proper form? Or, can "Khaalii" be used as a noun,
> something like emptiness?
Yes, a "noun-e-adjective" form such as this one is quite standard; in
Persian grammar, such a construction is called a 'murakkab-e-tauseefi'.
For example, we have chashm-e-purnam, roo-e-taabaaN, dil-e-hazeeN, aah-
e-sozaaN, etc.
sanad ke taur par, Faiz ka aek she'r pesh-e-khidmat hai, jis meiN do
jagah aisi hi tarkeeb iste'maal ki gayee hai:
uTh kar 'dil-e-veeraaN' se aaNkhoN meiN jo aaya hai
'paimaana-e-khaali' meiN kya tha jise josh aaya?
As for the use of the word 'khaali' as a noun, the answer is: NO, the
corresponding noun is 'khalaa', meaning a vacuous place. Unfortunately,
this word is often mis-pronounced as 'khilaa'.
khair-andesh, Raj Kumar
P.S. A personal request: Please restrain yourself from responding to
the latest post of Vijayraghavan Sahib on this other thread which,
of late, has become rather sour. Thanks in advance. R.K.
yogesh...@my-deja.com
> >makaan-e-Kaalii me.n jaise charaaG jalataa hai
>
> I have a couple of questions on the last stanza.
>
> 1. Does "daaGh jalanaa" make sense?
It is a metaphor. The theme, 'on a dark night, a lonely heart burning
with desire and no one to share the sorrow', is not new. Another such
example is:
dil ke phaphole jal uThe siine ke daagh se
is ghar ko aag lag ga_ii ghar ke chiragh se
This is saigal singing in 'dhuup chaao.n'. 'dil kaa daagh' and 'siine
ke daagh' are pretty much the same.
>
> 2. What about "makaan-e-Khaalii"?
>
> I take it to mean empty house, but is "noun-e-adjuective"
> a proper form? Or, can "Khaalii" be used as a noun,
> something like emptiness?
>
Yes, it is a proper form. An adjective can follow a noun. Here are a few
more examples:
umr-e-raftaa
maal-e-muft
maal-e-haraam
shammaa-e-khaamosh
They are all correct and acceptable forms.
Regards,
Yogesh Sethi
vijay...@my-deja.com
ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) wrote:
> In article <7vd515$9...@news2.newsguy.com>, ADhar...@WorldBank.Org
says...
is "noun-e-adjuective"
> a proper form? >
>
> Ashok
>
>
Another example of 'noun-e-adjective' from Mirza Ghalib:
masjid ke zer-e-saaya ik ghar bana liia hai
yeh 'banda-e-kamiina' hamsaaya-e-Khuda hai
Regards,
Vijay Kumar